I think (and this is my personal opinion), women are less likely to negotiate during the hiring process for a higher wage and less likely to ask for a pay rise. These contribute to the discrepancies in pay.
An interesting point that there is some research to support.
Of course the ultimate arguement is that managers should be doing their jobs properly and appraising their staff appropriately based on their performance rather than how their staff think they are doing. I think all this really does is expose how bad some line managers are and how out of touch they are with the real performance of their staff. My company gets staff to appraise themselves which I personally do not agree with. That said I then have the opportunity to change this which I have done in the past.
Yes definitely. While woman still have ovaries and are the only means of having children that will remain the case. In my company here are only 2 women on a board of 12 directors. In my own case I was promoted every 2 years until I got pregnant, at which point that stopped. My boss immediately cancelled all the training courses that had been booked for me. I had been in a very technical IT role centred on databases and online systems but on returning from maternity leave part time i was put on the most noddy system that was a package with no requirement for database or online experience. My motivation was questioned at subsequent appraisals although this had always been a real strength in appraisals prior to my pregnancy. My experience would be that I had not changed but my employers perception of me had changed because I was a mother of young children. This is all 15 years ago but talking to other women I believe my experience is still the reality for a lot of other women. I earned more than my husband before having children but earned substantially less ( and I mean many thousands less ) 10 years later.
I could have become bitter as i continued to work as hard during my child rearing years and put in so many extra hours in evenings and weekends to do a good job but I concentrate on the fact that my part time hours meant i was able to be a good mum and spend quality time with my kids.
It's interesting that when I hit 40 and the possibility of me having more kids diminished I started to be given more opportunities. I am now 50 and work full time in a demanding role but despite this the damage has been done. I know my salary has never caught up with my male colleagues although my role is at least comparable and in some cases of a higher profile. My husband still earns more money than me although his job has significantly less responsibility.
Would I do anything differently if I had my time again? No - because to me having the opportunity to be a hands on mum has been extremely important. Do I think this is fair? 100% no as I feel my contribution as a part time worker was under valued and I do not believe I should be paid less than equivalent male employees now just because I am a women who has had children and worked part time in the past.
they are not equivalent though are they as they worked full time when you were off having kids and working part time seems perfectly fair to me
Most jobs are equal betweeen the genders. There are some exeptions like professional sport players but in todays age discrimination is a big no no and rightly so.
Does any one have personal experience of a man getting paid more than a woman, in your work place for the same work.
We are talking the same qualifications, same experience/time with the company, working in the same location, same hours and shifts and no piece work or commission.
Remember now....your own experience only.
Anybody? "
I do, don't get me wrong, my wife earns a good wage however she recently found out that one of her colleagues who does the exact same job, no where near as well (sales figures don't lie), and has been with the company for a shorter time is on 10 grand a year more with five days more holiday entitlement.
The only difference between then (apart from the fact that she brings in twice as much business every month and has a far more loyal client base) is that he has a dick.
Needless to say that company will be losing their highest performing sales person as soon as she finds the right opportunity.
Those figures look rather suspect, at £26.54 p/h they put the average salary at around £50,000 a year based on a 35 hour week.
Even if the figures are spot on, you'd need to a whole lot more indepth research to see if there is actually an equality of its just a case that men have more high paying jobs or male dominated careers pay more.
Nursing is the lowest paid of all the public sector professions. Historically nurses were paid less because the profession is (still) predominantly female.
Care workers (again predominantly female) are also low paid compared to other male dominated occupations.
When I was at work in the 70's men were paid more than women for the same job. Thankfully, due to the Sex Discrimination Act that changed. However, women still lag behind in the pay structure. Part time work is undervalued and it is predominantly women who work part time.
No it is not a myth.....but is far less black & white than it was 40 years ago.
Nursing is the lowest paid of all the public sector professions. Historically nurses were paid less because the profession is (still) predominantly female.
Care workers (again predominantly female) are also low paid compared to other male dominated occupations.
When I was at work in the 70's men were paid more than women for the same job. Thankfully, due to the Sex Discrimination Act that changed. However, women still lag behind in the pay structure. Part time work is undervalued and it is predominantly women who work part time.
No it is not a myth.....but is far less black & white than it was 40 years ago.
If people work part time then they will be paid less as they not working the same hours
If people work part time then they will be paid less as they not working the same hours
Of course they will be paid less. However, I was referring to the fact those working part time are undervalued in the workplace. Their skills and knowledge are undervalued and they are much less likely to be considered for promotion or other positions of responsibility in the workplace.
There is still discrimination it is simply much less direct.
On average, men and women have roughly the same I.Q., give or take a negligible point or two. The glaring differences, however, arise in how this average is distributed. Compared to women, who tend to flock towards neither extreme, men deviate from the average far more, and thus fill out most numbers at both the top and bottom ends of life in general.
It is for this reason, perhaps more than any other, that the majority of outstanding achievers are men, and have been throughout history. The vast majority of scientists, philosophers, musicians, academics, inventors, writers, political leaders, and so forth, are men. But men also comprise the bulk of society’s shit heap. The homeless, long-term unemployed, criminals, drug addicts, mental health patients, alcoholics, and degenerate gamblers are also, overwhelmingly, men.
Comments
An interesting point that there is some research to support.
http://mindhacks.com/2007/07/31/the-gender-psychology-of-fair-pay-and-haggling/
Of course the ultimate arguement is that managers should be doing their jobs properly and appraising their staff appropriately based on their performance rather than how their staff think they are doing. I think all this really does is expose how bad some line managers are and how out of touch they are with the real performance of their staff. My company gets staff to appraise themselves which I personally do not agree with. That said I then have the opportunity to change this which I have done in the past.
they are not equivalent though are they as they worked full time when you were off having kids and working part time seems perfectly fair to me
Fair point, though I'm not entirely convinced.
I do, don't get me wrong, my wife earns a good wage however she recently found out that one of her colleagues who does the exact same job, no where near as well (sales figures don't lie), and has been with the company for a shorter time is on 10 grand a year more with five days more holiday entitlement.
The only difference between then (apart from the fact that she brings in twice as much business every month and has a far more loyal client base) is that he has a dick.
Needless to say that company will be losing their highest performing sales person as soon as she finds the right opportunity.
Those figures look rather suspect, at £26.54 p/h they put the average salary at around £50,000 a year based on a 35 hour week.
Even if the figures are spot on, you'd need to a whole lot more indepth research to see if there is actually an equality of its just a case that men have more high paying jobs or male dominated careers pay more.
Care workers (again predominantly female) are also low paid compared to other male dominated occupations.
When I was at work in the 70's men were paid more than women for the same job. Thankfully, due to the Sex Discrimination Act that changed. However, women still lag behind in the pay structure. Part time work is undervalued and it is predominantly women who work part time.
No it is not a myth.....but is far less black & white than it was 40 years ago.
If people work part time then they will be paid less as they not working the same hours
Of course they will be paid less. However, I was referring to the fact those working part time are undervalued in the workplace. Their skills and knowledge are undervalued and they are much less likely to be considered for promotion or other positions of responsibility in the workplace.
There is still discrimination it is simply much less direct.
I assume the implication was that they are paid less pro-rated.
http://www.returnofkings.com/24612/differences-in-iq-between-men-and-women-can-no-longer-be-ignored
Here is a quote: