sounds kind of right as some people think only white British born poor, non muslim parents can be bad parents
Anyone can be a bad patent, irrespective of religion, monetary status or race. But proof of the actual bad parenting would be nice rather than throwing around wild accusations just because you can.
I'm really struggling with the level of hatred aimed at 3 schoolgirls. Did none of you ever do anything stupid as teenagers? I'm quite ok with pointing out the many, many ghastly things about Islam in its purer form, but really? Their first youthful offence is sufficient for you lot to wish them dead. And some very surprising members there too. Are we all just fatigued, numbed by Islamic terror or something? Are we not supposed to be better than they are?
They would kill anyone without betting an eyelid.
Are we meant to care for people who want to do us harm.
I dont think so, only people we should care about are people that care about us back or don't wish us any harm.
Anyone can be a bad patent, irrespective of religion, monetary status or race. But proof of the actual bad parenting would be nice rather than throwing around wild accusations just because you can.
and there is no proof that they are good parents is there. same could be said about throwing those sort of allegations around.
[QUOTE=MAW;77074387]I'm really struggling with the level of hatred aimed at 3 schoolgirls. Did none of you ever do anything stupid as teenagers? I'm quite ok with pointing out the many, many ghastly things about Islam in its purer form, but really? Their first youthful offence is sufficient for you lot to wish them dead. And some very surprising members there too. Are we all just fatigued, numbed by Islamic terror or something? Are we not supposed to be better than they are?[/QUOTE]
I don't think it is hatred, more realism. You could be sad that a dog's got rabies, even distraught if it's part of the family, but you don't want it in your house. It's dangerous and going to die.
So it's a shame that three girls are the latest victims - and they are victims, snared into the poisonous end of a religion by its adherents, but all we can really do is try to stop others from getting the disease. And that starts with the people who provide a festering nest for this particular poison, not those of us 'vaccinated' against it.
I'm really struggling with the level of hatred aimed at 3 schoolgirls. Did none of you ever do anything stupid as teenagers? I'm quite ok with pointing out the many, many ghastly things about Islam in its purer form, but really? Their first youthful offence is sufficient for you lot to wish them dead. And some very surprising members there too. Are we all just fatigued, numbed by Islamic terror or something? Are we not supposed to be better than they are?
Oh god yes. I slept with my neighbour 25 years my senior, I got bladdered drunk, I joined a hunt sab group because I fancied the girl on the stall, I broke my ankle dressed as spiderman trying to climb onto the roof during a college initiation.
But one thing I never did was fly to a brutal war zone in order to be "married to" (or let's call it for what it may well become, "raped by") a brutalised murderer at what I believe to be the behest of an invisible force in the sky.
No matter how much of a k***ber I was as a teen (and I was a big one) even I would have realised that this was a f*****g stupid idea.
And fo the record I don't wish them dead. I simply feel there is a highly increased chance they will end up just that. And I hope with all my heart that they never ever set foot on these shores again.
The parents are saying that the security services have failed them. Of course, it's nothing to do with the parents parenting.
On the BBC news it's the parents of the Scottish girl who are saying security forces 'have serious questions to answer'.
That is probably true.
But as a parent myself I consider myself primarily responsible for my children's actions. (and yes, I do know they are also responsible for their actions). So, for example, when my daughter told me she had taken ecstasy twice I didn't blame society, or the girl who gave it to her or her friends who also took it. I blamed her for being bloody stupid and myself for not doing enough to prevent her from making that decision.
I gave birth to her. I raised her. Same with these girls and their parents. Thousands of Muslim youngsters grow up as decent, law abiding people. This lot didn't.
And the onus is on the accuser to find proof of bad parenting. We believe in innocent until proven guilty in this country.
Sounds to me like excuses to badmouth people you don't know.
i don't live in cloud cuckoo land as they can be good and bad parents. and this democracy freedom of speech and we are FREE to say what we want and think what we want. They may well be good parents they may well be bad parents. we do not have proof one way or the other so it's best to view them both as good or bad. not just good or just bad.
Parents who are worried about their children and are concerned that they might be co-erced into doing what these young girls may be doing should just confiscate their passports so they cannot travel abroad. Admittedly this wont solve the issue of how their children feel or what they think but it will certainly stop them putting themselves in danger in other countries
I'm a little disappointed that the family of the Scottish female who went to Syria last year are today blaming the security services for the exodus of the latest 3 teenagers.
I think our security services have a huge amount on their plate, to say the least. I'm guessing their budget is tight, as all vital services are. I'd rather they focus on preventing terrorist atrocities than babysit Muslim families to prevent one of their number leaving the country.
However, I do blame successive Governments for making our passport system so lax and easy to fake and our borders so poorly manned. Those girls were probably able to waltz away. I also think the Govt should shoulder responsibility for allowing radical Islamic indocrination in schools for years. And certain parents are to blame for the indoctrination at home...
But please don't blame the Spooks. Thanks to weak laws, they probably have a lot more people to monitor on the streets when they'd rather they were in detention.
Well, quite! It's like no one here was ever a stupid teenager and never did anything ridiculous or dangerous.
I'm sure some will disagree with me, but I think lots of people are, quite rightly, a bit scared. It's one thing watching kidnapped soldiers or aid workers being brutalised in far off lards. Horrendous, but nothing to do with our day to day lives here in Europe. Watching the videos, if we choose to, we're still safe. But the horror is creeping closer and closer, with news that European high street stores might be targeted next, so the thought of kids as young as these girls being so radicalised, right here, right now, is frightening. And the fact that they're young, and yes, that they're girls, might play into it too. We're used to the bad guy being portrayed in a certain way, and they don't tend to look like pretty teenagers.
I don't think it is hatred, more realism. You could be sad that a dog's got rabies, even distraught if it's part of the family, but you don't want it in your house. It's dangerous and going to die.
So it's a shame that three girls are the latest victims - and they are victims, snared into the poisonous end of a religion by its adherents, but all we can really do is try to stop others from getting the disease. And that starts with the people who provide a festering nest for this particular poison, not those of us 'vaccinated' against it.
Im glad we agree they are victims. Too young, both legally and practically. Not too young to know right from wrong, but at an age where idealism is common, and easily misdirected. I suggest saving the lynch mob for the bastards that misdirected them. Though I'd tend to favour a man in a black balaclava over a mob, and a double tap in the back of the head. Quiet, no fuss, just a disappearance.
I'm sure some will disagree with me, but I think lots of people are, quite rightly, a bit scared. It's one thing watching kidnapped soldiers or aid workers being brutalised in far off lards. Horrendous, but nothing to do with our day to day lives here in Europe. Watching the videos, if we choose to, we're still safe. But the horror is creeping closer and closer, with news that European high street stores might be targeted next, so the thought of kids as young as these girls being so radicalised, right here, right now, is frightening. And the fact that they're young, and yes, that they're girls, might play into it too. We're used to the bad guy being portrayed in a certain way, and they don't tend to look like pretty teenagers.
All western governments need to crack down hard and fast on muslim extremists and terrorists. As they are a danger to us all, and any idiot think its ok to defend them are as bad as they are.
Anyone can be a bad patent, irrespective of religion, monetary status or race. But proof of the actual bad parenting would be nice rather than throwing around wild accusations just because you can.
There is evidence to suggest that the parents of these three girls singularly failed to impress upon them how wrong it is to fly off own their own and join a notoriously bloodthirsty terrorist group. It's one of the first things any good muslim parent should be teaching their kids right now.
I think if I were a good Muslim parent, I'd use the fear of God to instill good behaviours. For example, I'd tell my kids that aligning with any sort of violence or hatred will result in them being smited by Allah and them being damned to an eternity in hell and that even questioning that stance would earn his wrath.
I find the vitriol on this thread towards not only these girls (who are teenagers who may be intelligent but are also as naive and unworldly-wise as most 15-16 year old girls - some of whom who fancy twits like Justin Bieber and pour scorn and nastiness on anyone who doesn't like him ... Then grow out of it as they mature emotionally) but ALL Muslims quite appalling.
Yes, ISIS and their ilk are despicable and disgusting creatures who need wiping off the face of this planet. They don't care about anything other than killing, imposing their way of thinking on others (including other Muslims, who, let's not forget, they have also murdered; the pilot they burned to death was also a Muslim, wasn't he? Did he then deserve his death because of his religion?) and the glare of publicity as they do so.
However, you don't condemn an entire section of people, make assumptions about them when you have no proof ('their own families probably radicalised them ...' - how can you possibly KNOW that??? You don't) nor wish them all dead unless you want to come across as being prejudiced against all Muslims.
The KKK have murdered people over the years by burning them alive, by shooting them or by hanging them. Do we think they are truly representative of ALL Christians? No, of course not. Why, then, do we believe that of another religion?
Yes, Islam is a very strict creed. I disagree completely with its rules and regulations - or at least they way its writings are interpreted and formed into said rules. The same way I hate the way some fundamentalist Christians interpret the writings in the Bible to justify some of their terrible acts and attitudes.
But Islam is very strict and yes, it is an indoctrination which starts when one is old enough to begin to understand the world. If you are brought up in that religion, you adhere to its tenets or there are consequences. Let's not forget about 'honour killings' and forced marriages - or do these women, because they are Muslim, deserve all they get in those scenarios too?
It's very difficult for anyone who hasn't been brought up in that religion to understand the pressures to conform and the deep seated faith that is Islam. I don't truly understand it but I can appreciate that it does exist and that even if they not allowed to condemn what is happening in the name of their religion because they are not allowed to criticise their religion, many Muslims probably DO condemn it and are not party to it.
Thank goodness my religion doesn't require such strict adherence. And believes in life rather than an abstract. I couldn't live under such rules. But then, I wasn't brought up that way. Which doesn't make all Muslims terrorists or would-be terrorists. It just makes them religious. Just as the bible doesn't make everyone a KKK member. It just makes them a Christian.
Sorry, this is a little long winded but I am quite alarmed by the underlying racism I see being spouted in some of the posts on this thread.
As for the teenagers. Well, the first thing I thought when I saw their photos - garbed in Western dress was that that was the last time they would be allowed to dress that way; they would not be allowed to have their phones (something which teenagers in particular seem inordinately attached to like third limbs!) and they would live the rest of their lives as chattels, with none of the freedoms they took for granted here. And if they tried to rebel? Well, that would probably be their death.
But I don't celebrate that. They are silly, naive little girls - no doubt believing in some romanticised idea and in for the shock of their lives when they face the reality of what lies before them.
I recall being a teenage girl of that age. I was intelligent. I was, however, very naive, emotionally immature and believed in things that I now find quite daft.
These girls are under the thrall of someone who has been grooming them (irrespective of whether it was a radical posing as a romantic revolutionary or their friend who was doing essentially the same thing - if it actually was their friend and not someone posing as her on her account). I feel very sorry that because they have bought into this, their lives are going to end in misery.
I'm really struggling with the level of hatred aimed at 3 schoolgirls. Did none of you ever do anything stupid as teenagers? I'm quite ok with pointing out the many, many ghastly things about Islam in its purer form, but really? Their first youthful offence is sufficient for you lot to wish them dead. And some very surprising members there too. Are we all just fatigued, numbed by Islamic terror or something? Are we not supposed to be better than they are?
I have quoted these two excellent posts to thank the posters for introducing some decency and common sense into the thread,
I was so appalled by many of the posts and the incredible ignorance being spouted that I just backed out of the thread and ran for the hills.
I believe this is a case of grooming and I am disgusted by people saying that if these girls came home they should be shot as soon as they set foot on UK soil. Seriously - is that what Britain should sink to?
As for people sneering at the families and suggesting they are moronic for providing funds for their children to go to Syria - what on earth makes you think these young people needed money from their parents?
Islamic State is loaded thanks to the oil fields which they now control.
Islamic State initially relied on wealthy private donors in the Middle East keen to oust Syria's President Bashar al-Assad.
It now makes between $846,000 (£540,000) and $1.645m (£1.05m) a day selling oil from fields in Syria and Iraq.
If IS has the facility to groom young men and women via the internet then they also have the facility to provide them with the funds they require to get to Syria. If you ever listen to news reports about young people heading off to Syria from the UK this sentence usually appears somewhere "Police/authorities confirm that they have access to funds" - I believe this is a reference to IS bank-rolling their journey.
I'm really struggling with the level of hatred aimed at 3 schoolgirls. Did none of you ever do anything stupid as teenagers? I'm quite ok with pointing out the many, many ghastly things about Islam in its purer form, but really? Their first youthful offence is sufficient for you lot to wish them dead. And some very surprising members there too. Are we all just fatigued, numbed by Islamic terror or something? Are we not supposed to be better than they are?
I'm a not sure many teenagers had made such a silly trivial mistake as celebrating blood lust, demanding more, getting tickets to fly abroad and help terrorists who have invaded another country.
We are not talking of a few moonies and broken windows here...this is nasty serious shite.
I suppose it's perfectly possible that ISIS use flirty fishing methods, ie get good looking males and females to attract lonely and/or idealistic youngster via the internet. Just think of how impossible it would be to discourage a determined Islamic Vicki Pollard from meeting the boy of her dreams, even if she knew that boy was a thug and a general wrong 'un.
Although a foolish chav youth is still morally superior to a male who would revel in murder and sex slavery under ISIS.
I have quoted these two excellent posts to thank the posters for introducing some decency and common sense into the thread,
I was so appalled by many of the posts and the incredible ignorance being spouted that I just backed out of the thread and ran for the hills.
I believe this is a case of grooming and I am disgusted by people saying that if these girls came home they should be shot as soon as they set foot on UK soil. Seriously - is that what Britain should sink to?
As for people sneering at the families and suggesting they are moronic for providing funds for their children to go to Syria - what on earth makes you think these young people needed money from their parents?
Islamic State is loaded thanks to the oil fields which they now control.
If IS has the facility to groom young men and women via the internet then they also have the facility to provide them with the funds they require to get to Syria. If you ever listen to news reports about young people heading off to Syria from the UK this sentence usually appears somewhere "Police/authorities confirm that they have access to funds" - I believe this is a reference to IS bank-rolling their journey.
If a typical British parent suddenly lost their child, no idea what their daughters were getting up to etc...there would be a backlash...why should these examples of crap parenting be any different?
As a parent of six, who have all grown up without trouble and now in good careers, I would know in an instant if something was not pukker. But perhaps that's because I give a damn and we have an open a free relationship.
I have quoted these two excellent posts to thank the posters for introducing some decency and common sense into the thread,
I was so appalled by many of the posts and the incredible ignorance being spouted that I just backed out of the thread and ran for the hills.
I believe this is a case of grooming and I am disgusted by people saying that if these girls came home they should be shot as soon as they set foot on UK soil. Seriously - is that what Britain should sink to?
As for people sneering at the families and suggesting they are moronic for providing funds for their children to go to Syria - what on earth makes you think these young people needed money from their parents?
Islamic State is loaded thanks to the oil fields which they now control.
If IS has the facility to groom young men and women via the internet then they also have the facility to provide them with the funds they require to get to Syria. If you ever listen to news reports about young people heading off to Syria from the UK this sentence usually appears somewhere "Police/authorities confirm that they have access to funds" - I believe this is a reference to IS bank-rolling their journey.
Why should people care for them, as they would kill us as quick as anything without battery in an eyelid. To have someone care for you, you got to care about others.
All western governments need to crack down hard and fast on muslim extremists and terrorists. As they are a danger to us all, and any idiot think its ok to defend them are as bad as they are.
Yes, of course, and I'm not defending them. But I recognise the difficulty in 'cracking down hard and fast' - we're talking about what happens within schools and mosques and community centres and families.
They are intelligent girls, probably university material, and have access to any type of media going. Of course they must have researched what they were getting into, and been aware of what ISIS are about. ISIS are global headlines, almost on a daily basis,
I know what they're getting into, so do you, so does nearly everyone else in this thread. Yet some seem to think this widely available and very basic information about ISIS, has somehow passed these girls by, and that they are oblivious to it, and are just stupid teenagers out for a laugh and an adventure.
Comments
Anyone can be a bad patent, irrespective of religion, monetary status or race. But proof of the actual bad parenting would be nice rather than throwing around wild accusations just because you can.
They would kill anyone without betting an eyelid.
Are we meant to care for people who want to do us harm.
I dont think so, only people we should care about are people that care about us back or don't wish us any harm.
and there is no proof that they are good parents is there. same could be said about throwing those sort of allegations around.
? What kind of allegations?
And the onus is on the accuser to find proof of bad parenting. We believe in innocent until proven guilty in this country.
Sounds to me like excuses to badmouth people you don't know.
I don't think it is hatred, more realism. You could be sad that a dog's got rabies, even distraught if it's part of the family, but you don't want it in your house. It's dangerous and going to die.
So it's a shame that three girls are the latest victims - and they are victims, snared into the poisonous end of a religion by its adherents, but all we can really do is try to stop others from getting the disease. And that starts with the people who provide a festering nest for this particular poison, not those of us 'vaccinated' against it.
Oh god yes. I slept with my neighbour 25 years my senior, I got bladdered drunk, I joined a hunt sab group because I fancied the girl on the stall, I broke my ankle dressed as spiderman trying to climb onto the roof during a college initiation.
But one thing I never did was fly to a brutal war zone in order to be "married to" (or let's call it for what it may well become, "raped by") a brutalised murderer at what I believe to be the behest of an invisible force in the sky.
No matter how much of a k***ber I was as a teen (and I was a big one) even I would have realised that this was a f*****g stupid idea.
And fo the record I don't wish them dead. I simply feel there is a highly increased chance they will end up just that. And I hope with all my heart that they never ever set foot on these shores again.
Would you say this girl was a stupid teenager as well? A bit 'silly' perhaps?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/7547694/Black-widow-bomber-was-17-year-old-wife-of-Islamist-leader.html
On the BBC news it's the parents of the Scottish girl who are saying security forces 'have serious questions to answer'.
That is probably true.
But as a parent myself I consider myself primarily responsible for my children's actions. (and yes, I do know they are also responsible for their actions). So, for example, when my daughter told me she had taken ecstasy twice I didn't blame society, or the girl who gave it to her or her friends who also took it. I blamed her for being bloody stupid and myself for not doing enough to prevent her from making that decision.
I gave birth to her. I raised her. Same with these girls and their parents. Thousands of Muslim youngsters grow up as decent, law abiding people. This lot didn't.
i don't live in cloud cuckoo land as they can be good and bad parents. and this democracy freedom of speech and we are FREE to say what we want and think what we want. They may well be good parents they may well be bad parents. we do not have proof one way or the other so it's best to view them both as good or bad. not just good or just bad.
I think our security services have a huge amount on their plate, to say the least. I'm guessing their budget is tight, as all vital services are. I'd rather they focus on preventing terrorist atrocities than babysit Muslim families to prevent one of their number leaving the country.
However, I do blame successive Governments for making our passport system so lax and easy to fake and our borders so poorly manned. Those girls were probably able to waltz away. I also think the Govt should shoulder responsibility for allowing radical Islamic indocrination in schools for years. And certain parents are to blame for the indoctrination at home...
But please don't blame the Spooks. Thanks to weak laws, they probably have a lot more people to monitor on the streets when they'd rather they were in detention.
I'm sure some will disagree with me, but I think lots of people are, quite rightly, a bit scared. It's one thing watching kidnapped soldiers or aid workers being brutalised in far off lards. Horrendous, but nothing to do with our day to day lives here in Europe. Watching the videos, if we choose to, we're still safe. But the horror is creeping closer and closer, with news that European high street stores might be targeted next, so the thought of kids as young as these girls being so radicalised, right here, right now, is frightening. And the fact that they're young, and yes, that they're girls, might play into it too. We're used to the bad guy being portrayed in a certain way, and they don't tend to look like pretty teenagers.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/20/push-pull-lure-western-women-isis
Im glad we agree they are victims. Too young, both legally and practically. Not too young to know right from wrong, but at an age where idealism is common, and easily misdirected. I suggest saving the lynch mob for the bastards that misdirected them. Though I'd tend to favour a man in a black balaclava over a mob, and a double tap in the back of the head. Quiet, no fuss, just a disappearance.
All western governments need to crack down hard and fast on muslim extremists and terrorists. As they are a danger to us all, and any idiot think its ok to defend them are as bad as they are.
There is evidence to suggest that the parents of these three girls singularly failed to impress upon them how wrong it is to fly off own their own and join a notoriously bloodthirsty terrorist group. It's one of the first things any good muslim parent should be teaching their kids right now.
I think if I were a good Muslim parent, I'd use the fear of God to instill good behaviours. For example, I'd tell my kids that aligning with any sort of violence or hatred will result in them being smited by Allah and them being damned to an eternity in hell and that even questioning that stance would earn his wrath.
It's ironic that the treatment by ISIS of the girls who travel might well be what saves them a lifetime behind bars.
They go thinking they will be on the front line, killing people. That is what they are prepared for what they want.
In reality they are more likely to be shut up in the house being used as a sexual service for their "husbands"
Some people look forward to that. Each to their own.
I have quoted these two excellent posts to thank the posters for introducing some decency and common sense into the thread,
I was so appalled by many of the posts and the incredible ignorance being spouted that I just backed out of the thread and ran for the hills.
I believe this is a case of grooming and I am disgusted by people saying that if these girls came home they should be shot as soon as they set foot on UK soil. Seriously - is that what Britain should sink to?
As for people sneering at the families and suggesting they are moronic for providing funds for their children to go to Syria - what on earth makes you think these young people needed money from their parents?
Islamic State is loaded thanks to the oil fields which they now control.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-30315092
If IS has the facility to groom young men and women via the internet then they also have the facility to provide them with the funds they require to get to Syria. If you ever listen to news reports about young people heading off to Syria from the UK this sentence usually appears somewhere "Police/authorities confirm that they have access to funds" - I believe this is a reference to IS bank-rolling their journey.
I'm a not sure many teenagers had made such a silly trivial mistake as celebrating blood lust, demanding more, getting tickets to fly abroad and help terrorists who have invaded another country.
We are not talking of a few moonies and broken windows here...this is nasty serious shite.
Although a foolish chav youth is still morally superior to a male who would revel in murder and sex slavery under ISIS.
If a typical British parent suddenly lost their child, no idea what their daughters were getting up to etc...there would be a backlash...why should these examples of crap parenting be any different?
As a parent of six, who have all grown up without trouble and now in good careers, I would know in an instant if something was not pukker. But perhaps that's because I give a damn and we have an open a free relationship.
Why should people care for them, as they would kill us as quick as anything without battery in an eyelid. To have someone care for you, you got to care about others.
Yes, of course, and I'm not defending them. But I recognise the difficulty in 'cracking down hard and fast' - we're talking about what happens within schools and mosques and community centres and families.
I know what they're getting into, so do you, so does nearly everyone else in this thread. Yet some seem to think this widely available and very basic information about ISIS, has somehow passed these girls by, and that they are oblivious to it, and are just stupid teenagers out for a laugh and an adventure.