He observed so much in to the bathroom..his super sense detection. :rolleyes: which is in darkness and down a short passage way ,yet didnt see /or check where Reeva was.I dont believe a word of it.
I don't believe it either but he's still going to get bail imo.
Ah this is going to be like the locking the toilet door!!! I've never slept naked - I always have something on however flimsy. Even in Morocco in August when it was 50deg + I had a vest and shorts on.
I don't think the clothes she was wearing sounds that significant, if it was only shorts and a top that she could have either been sleeping in, or put on quickly to go to the loo.
If she had been more fully dressed, for example skirt or trousers, or shoes even, then that would be different.
And obviously, if any blood stained clothes currently unaccounted for show up, that would change things considerably.
I don't think the clothes she was wearing sounds that significant, if it was only shorts and a top that she could have either been sleeping in, or put on quickly to go to the loo.
If she had been more fully dressed, for example skirt or trousers, or shoes even, then that would be different.
And obviously, if any blood stained clothes currently unaccounted for show up, that would change things considerably.
To my mind if they were 'outdoor' clothes then I'd assume they'd argued and she'd got dressed to leave - PJs are just well PJs.
If they were her yoga clothes (he said she'd done yoga before bed) then they'd have proabably been to hand if she'd wanted to get away from the situation.
The tension is mounting at Pretoria magistrates court with a decision imminent on whether athlete Oscar Pistorius will be granted bail, writes David Smith from Pretoria.
The morning session saw a final duel between the prosecution and defence, including debate over whether a world-famous double-amputee with prosthetic legs poses a flight risk if released.
Prosecutor Gerrie Nel said Pistorius has the "money, means and motive" to flee if given bail, and described how WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange is just as well known as Pistorius but skipped bail by seeking refuge in London's Ecuadorian embassy.
But defence advocate Barry Roux contended: "Mr Pistorius, every time he goes through security at airport, there's commotion ... He cannot go unnoticed through airport security."
As magistrate Desmond Nair pondered whether Pistorius could conceal his prostheses and "duck and dive" in a foreign country, Roux told the court: "Those legs need maintenance and adjustment on a monthly basis." Pistorius also requires medical attention for his stumps, he added.
The crowded courtroom now includes close friends of Reeva Steenkamp, the girlfriend shot by Pistorius, and the man now leading the investigation, Lieutenant Geneal Vineshkumar Moonoo.
Nair said he was in an "unenviable position" and would make his ruling at 2.30pm local time (12.30pm GMT).
I noticed that the bathroom window was open. I realised that the intruder/s was/were in the toilet because the toilet door was closed and I did not see anyone in the bathroom.
How could he see the window was open if it was pitch black?
The point at which we need to believe it was pitch black was when he was in the bedroom and didn't notice Reeva wasn't there.
If it was a short time later, and his eyes had adjusted a bit, plus moving to a different room where there was a window letting some ambient light in, then he could have noticed that.
Or even felt a breeze.
I apologise if people think I'm being argumentative for the sake of it. I'm really not - with this sort of thing its surely important to consider everything.
The story about the 50 year old paraplegic has convinced me that OP should not and will not end up in that remand prison. On the balance of probabilities with the evidence we have heard, I think he is guilty, but I think he will be given bail with very strict conditions which would amount to virtual house arrest. OP is no master criminal like Ronnie Biggs. No way would be attempt to leave the country.
I don't think the clothes she was wearing sounds that significant, if it was only shorts and a top that she could have either been sleeping in, or put on quickly to go to the loo.
If she had been more fully dressed, for example skirt or trousers, or shoes even, then that would be different.
And obviously, if any blood stained clothes currently unaccounted for show up, that would change things considerably.
If there was any evidence of this, the prosecution would have had no difficulty getting a schedule 6 certificate. They didn't get a certificate so I think it's a reasonable assumption that such evidence doesn't exist.
The point at which we need to believe it was pitch black was when he was in the bedroom and didn't notice Reeva wasn't there.
If it was a short time later, and his eyes had adjusted a bit, plus moving to a different room where there was a window letting some ambient light in, then he could have noticed that.
Or even felt a breeze.
I apologise if people think I'm being argumentative for the sake of it. I'm really not - with this sort of thing its surely important to consider everything.
I don't think you are. Just offering a different point of view. If it doesn't sit well with other's that just tough
If there was any evidence of this, the prosecution would have had no difficulty getting a schedule 6 certificate. They didn't get a certificate so I think it's a reasonable assumption that such evidence doesn't exist.
True - although there remains the possibility that if he moved the body downstairs, he may have had time top redress her and hide anything incriminating.
However, I'm inclined to believe he didn't do that if he called paramedics when he says he did. Which he is presumably on record as having done.
From his demeanor in court, I would think he is far more of a suicide than a flight risk.
You mean the dramatic sobbing that magically disappeared the day the defence team had Botha on the ropes?
I haven't read the article yet, but I don't think prison conditions should be taken into account when considering his bail if they aren't considered for other disabled bail applicants. He shouldn't get special treatment for being famous.
Sure - but I'm trying to get the differentiation between murder and premeditated murder.
I would accept that he is guilty of murder of some legal kind.
But if it was a spontaneous shooting in the midst of a violent argument, where he almost certainly wasn't thinking rationally about what he was doing.... I don't see that as being premeditated murder.
Premeditated is not normally part of the legal definition. Intent to kill is. Shooting a gun at someone shows intent.
Taking the "herbal remedy" into account, it sounds like he hasn't got enough lead in his pencil ....
Unless the "herbal remedy" works of course!
The herbal remedy could more than likely be something you could find in the home of any of OP's elite athlete competitors.
It is a naturally occuring product so gives athletes some of the advantages of taking testosterone without the thorny issue of positive drug tests and bans from the sport.
It's also possible that it was just stuff left over that he wasn't taking at the moment, depending on where is was on his training and competition cycle. Elite athletes are very blase about having phials of medication and injection equipment in the house - as can be seen from various raids of houses in the past.
Comments
From his demeanor in court, I would think he is far more of a suicide than a flight risk.
I don't believe it either but he's still going to get bail imo.
I don't think the clothes she was wearing sounds that significant, if it was only shorts and a top that she could have either been sleeping in, or put on quickly to go to the loo.
If she had been more fully dressed, for example skirt or trousers, or shoes even, then that would be different.
And obviously, if any blood stained clothes currently unaccounted for show up, that would change things considerably.
To my mind if they were 'outdoor' clothes then I'd assume they'd argued and she'd got dressed to leave - PJs are just well PJs.
If they were her yoga clothes (he said she'd done yoga before bed) then they'd have proabably been to hand if she'd wanted to get away from the situation.
The point at which we need to believe it was pitch black was when he was in the bedroom and didn't notice Reeva wasn't there.
If it was a short time later, and his eyes had adjusted a bit, plus moving to a different room where there was a window letting some ambient light in, then he could have noticed that.
Or even felt a breeze.
I apologise if people think I'm being argumentative for the sake of it. I'm really not - with this sort of thing its surely important to consider everything.
If there was any evidence of this, the prosecution would have had no difficulty getting a schedule 6 certificate. They didn't get a certificate so I think it's a reasonable assumption that such evidence doesn't exist.
I don't think you are. Just offering a different point of view. If it doesn't sit well with other's that just tough
That's horrfiying
I don't think anyone who hasn't actually been convicted should have to live like that.
I'm not even sure a convicted felon should be put in those conditions either.
True - although there remains the possibility that if he moved the body downstairs, he may have had time top redress her and hide anything incriminating.
However, I'm inclined to believe he didn't do that if he called paramedics when he says he did. Which he is presumably on record as having done.
Conditions for convicted prisoners are apparently better. How much better I don't know.
I agree.
You mean the dramatic sobbing that magically disappeared the day the defence team had Botha on the ropes?
I haven't read the article yet, but I don't think prison conditions should be taken into account when considering his bail if they aren't considered for other disabled bail applicants. He shouldn't get special treatment for being famous.
Taking the "herbal remedy" into account, it sounds like he hasn't got enough lead in his pencil ....
Unless the "herbal remedy" works of course!
Telegraph Day 1 as it happened
Telegraph Day 2 as it happened
Telegraph Day 3 as it happened
Athletes use it for recovery not especially for it's viagra like effects.
Is there any evidence of that? All the internet references seem to be either about this case or violent erections.
Premeditated is not normally part of the legal definition. Intent to kill is. Shooting a gun at someone shows intent.
The herbal remedy could more than likely be something you could find in the home of any of OP's elite athlete competitors.
It is a naturally occuring product so gives athletes some of the advantages of taking testosterone without the thorny issue of positive drug tests and bans from the sport.
It's also possible that it was just stuff left over that he wasn't taking at the moment, depending on where is was on his training and competition cycle. Elite athletes are very blase about having phials of medication and injection equipment in the house - as can be seen from various raids of houses in the past.
So he doesnt need time to grieve over the apparent accidental death of his girlfriend :rolleyes:
It doesn't matter who he thought he was shooting at for murder. The actual victim does not have to be the person he claims he thought it was.
Shooting blindly through a door gives no option that he claim he wasn't intending to hit the person.