Other than the loaded comments by Martin (you'd make a wonderful mother) and by Louisa (I want lots of kids) used by the writers to foreshadow the pregnancy, there was little maternal instinct shown by Louisa. Even with Peter Cronk she had a quasi professional relationship and treated the other pupils as any teacher would. She hustled children into school, blew her whistle at them through PE and called Martin for the slightest medical emergency rather than handle it. She often seemed annoyed by kids and let Peter Cronk slip out of her cottage without checking on his whereabouts
In my opinion, she had suppressed her maternal instincts to do her job with chikdren in a neutral way. It was only Martin's comment about her motherhood that may have allowed her wish for a child to re-surface. When she discovered her pregnancy in London, I suspect she was thrilled and terrified. As I recall, Martin's first comment to her when he learned she was pregnant was to say it was too late for an abortion. Because Martin often treats things as a medical issue, I think Louisa may have feared his reaction would be to treat her pregnancy as a medical matter and first suggest an abortion. I think that would have been unbearable for her in the emotionally vulnerable early stage of pregnancy. While I don't condone her not telling Martin immediately, I understand why she did not. When she knew her return to Portwenn was imminent, she should have contacted him by then. I don't think she was brave or cowardly, but a woman who did not want anyone to interfere with her happiness at this unexpected child. She did what she did and we have series 4 in response to her decision.
Yeah, she is "sparky" for sure! Character trait. As is her bravery and deep yearnings for family intimacy, steadfastness, morality ( recall her description to Isabel on her non-wedding day) and ability to love deeply and romantically
Hello, Carol, I know you are LG biggest fan, which is fine. But, I cannot see how you deem her "steadfast". How many times has she over-reacted and kicked DM out of cars, been susceptible to others' views, broken up with him, or left him?
Merriam Webster defines steadfast as: firmly fixed in place; not subject to change; firm in belief, adherence.
If there is one thing DM the series has shown us is that LG is by no means "steadfast"!
I'm sorry which Louisa are you referring to? Certainly not the LG of DM, right? ;-)
Her feelings are never hidden! They are all over the place all the time. She is very emotional and shows them openly. Remember, you cannot judge her expressions of feeling through the intuitiveness of DM, as he is so frequently clueless, but, come on, the audience always gets what is going on with her, because it is so evident.
In my last two posts I am not judging LG because I dislike her; she's a good character, and very complex. But, she ain't steadfast and doesn't hide her feelings!
You got it wrong way 'round. It was Louisa saying that what she loved about DM was that he was steadfast and moral. Never said L was steadfast. She's emotional and sparky w/ whims, mind-changing, and etc but always has her moral compass pointed in the direction of deep romantic love.
I'm sorry which Louisa are you referring to? Certainly not the LG of DM, right? ;-)
Her feelings are never hidden! They are all over the place all the time. She is very emotional and shows them openly. Remember, you cannot judge her expressions of feeling through the intuitiveness of DM, as he is so frequently clueless, but, come on, the audience always gets what is going on with her, because it is so evident.
In my last two posts I am not judging LG because I dislike her; she's a good character, and very complex. But, she ain't steadfast and doesn't hide her feelings!
Yeah, she is prideful and hides her feelings; yes, her deepest feelings of hurt, disappointment and rejection FROM HIM. We saw a little of that in S4. The audience always sees more, don't they?
Momfromco says: What an awful thing to do, to anyone. And I suppose she thought the child would be ok not know who his father was and not having the benefit of a father in his life? As for the wanting children....she could have easily gone to a sperm bank. She was in love with Martin...in a crazy chemical way...she didn't just want more kids...she wanted him in her life, as difficult as it might be. She knows there is more to him than his gruff, non-communicative exterior. She still had hope that it might show, which it did throughout S4 but she chose not to recognize it...eg. Wanting to take her to her antenatal. That was pretty demonstrative don't you think?
Crazy, chemical way? She was in love with the baby, and a wee bit in love with him. Is that better? ;-)
Yes, he was sweet, at times. Love him, too. Sigh, why do I love them. Why?
DM has "got problem!" It is, afterall, called "Doc Martin" and not "Luisa Glasson".
This is what the show stumbled into ( I think stumbled - but would love to hear from the writers to prove me wrong that it was deliberate) : they made characters that are well-rounded just enough - flaws, negative qualities, beauty, lovely inner natures, senses of fun, and etc. - to be like real life in other words, only better cuz it's scripted.
The 2nd brilliant thing I think the writers did ( less likely to be a stumble though) is to make the writing spare so that the viewers must connect the dots. Brilliant!
DM has "got problem!" It is, afterall, called "Doc Martin" and not "Luisa Glasson".
This is what the show stumbled into ( I think stumbled - but would love to hear from the writers to prove me wrong that it was deliberate) : they made characters that are well-rounded just enough - flaws, negative qualities, beauty, lovely inner natures, senses of fun, and etc. - to be like real life in other words, only better cuz it's scripted.
The 2nd brilliant thing I think the writers did ( less likely to be a stumble though) is to make the writing spare so that the viewers must connect the dots. Brilliant!
After listening to some of the actors' quotes (rhetoric), I think some of the tension and
prickly friction has been infused by the actors. They, obviously, have fun playing it. Eyeroll. Also, I watched a discussion with LG and other notables and she made a point about not wanting to play the typical female lead, Mom, that always gets it right. I'm not even paraphrasing because I don't recall most of it but she has her hand in shaping the character and many actors like to play "feet of clay", or whatever.
Random thought: I prefer actors just shut-up and entertain me. I don't care how they draw the character or search the subtext, blahblahblah. They just need to shutup ...entertain me, folks. I require little else. Don't tell me - show me.
I'm reminded of a MC audio, and he talks about the Doc's state of mind S4, he also references his relationship with the EagerRedHead. The actor explains that Doc and his issues stem from the broken relationship. He also talks about being heartbroken over Louisa. Really - I didn't see that. He was his impatient, grumpy self.
just cuz they're louder and more numerous, doesn't make 'em right, eh?
I think you could say that DM immediately interjecting: "do you want to get married" when he and L are on the surgery patio in Epi 2 of S 4 could portray his deep love for her. I think he, like he has all his life, just deeply buried his love for her when they did the unwedding thing. He didn't spend the next few months "gestating" - oh good one! - over it or even thinking about how/why/when the relationship with L ended. He never does cuz it hurts too much. Whereas L was gestating - both literally and figuratively! ha!
You got it wrong way 'round. It was Louisa saying that what she loved about DM was that he was steadfast and moral. Never said L was steadfast. She's emotional and sparky w/ whims, mind-changing, and etc but always has her moral compass pointed in the direction of deep romantic love.
Her moral compass pointed in the direction of deep romantic love? Quite an unusual turn of a phrase...I'm not sure what it means though.
After listening to some of the actors' quotes (rhetoric), I think some of the tension and
prickly friction has been infused by the actors. They, obviously, have fun playing it. Eyeroll. Also, I watched a discussion with LG and other notables and she made a point about not wanting to play the typical female lead, Mom, that always gets it right. I'm not even paraphrasing because I don't recall most of it but she has her hand in shaping the character and many actors like to play "feet of clay", or whatever.
Random thought: I prefer actors just shut-up and entertain me. I don't care how they draw the character or search the subtext, blahblahblah. They just need to shutup ...entertain me, folks. I require little else. Don't tell me - show me.
I'm reminded of a MC audio, and he talks about the Doc's state of mind S4, he also references his relationship with the EagerRedHead. The actor explains that Doc and his issues stem from the broken relationship. He also talks about being heartbroken over Louisa. Really - I didn't see that. He was his impatient, grumpy self.
They just need to shutup. Actors are annoying...
I find watching and listening to actors explain their art and what they find is their characters motivation extremely fascinating. It reminds me of the literature classes I took in my overly thorough education......what was Scout thinking when Atticus defended Boo Radley?.......what did the Sirens represent to Odysseus? It shows which actors are intelligent and thinking while they work, unlike the new crop of "Ken doll" actors, Channing Tatum or the Hemsworth boys, that are gaining stardom in the States....doubt that they give a second thought to what "Thor's" motivation was. It's my bread and butter...I love it. So if Caroline Catz wants to discuss LOUISA'S motivation bring it on. That is the correct spelling in the credits, Carol A. I think you have mistaken her for someone in Mexico. If you choose, you can continue to be wrong, but that's not usually the logical way to deal with an error.
Momfromco says: What an awful thing to do, to anyone. And I suppose she thought the child would be ok not know who his father was and not having the benefit of a father in his life? As for the wanting children....she could have easily gone to a sperm bank. She was in love with Martin...in a crazy chemical way...she didn't just want more kids...she wanted him in her life, as difficult as it might be. She knows there is more to him than his gruff, non-communicative exterior. She still had hope that it might show, which it did throughout S4 but she chose not to recognize it...eg. Wanting to take her to her antenatal. That was pretty demonstrative don't you think?
Crazy, chemical way? She was in love with the baby, and a wee bit in love with him. Is that better? ;-)
Yes, he was sweet, at times. Love him, too. Sigh, why do I love them. Why?
No, in my opinion it was chemical and emotional. You can smell the pheremones and feel the heat every time they kissed on screen right through the television set. They are HOT. It's one of the many reasons I love and will continue to watch the program.
I find watching and listening to actors explain their art and what they find is their characters motivation extremely fascinating. It reminds me of the literature classes I took in my overly thorough education......what was Scout thinking when Atticus defended Boo Radley?.......what did the Sirens represent to Odysseus? It shows which actors are intelligent and thinking while they work, unlike the new crop of "Ken doll" actors, Channing Tatum or the Hemsworth boys, that are gaining stardom in the States....doubt that they give a second thought to what "Thor's" motivation was. It's my bread and butter...I love it. So if Caroline Catz wants to discuss LOUISA'S motivation bring it on. That is the correct spelling in the credits, Carol A. I think you have mistaken her for someone in Mexico. If you choose, you can continue to be wrong, but that's not usually the logical way to deal with an error.
I agree -- that I'm interested almost as much in the craft of what they're doing as in the plot.
My first strong reaction to the series was watching MArtin's interaction with his mother in S2, and wondering, how in earth did he just convey so much emotion, with so little movement and dialogue.
I went to college with and roomed with lots of people in the theater department, which left me with not much interest in actors, frankly. But this series has more or less changed my mind. So I listen when they talk about what they think they are doing.
So, I have never seen the slightest necessity of being on one side or the other in the great "Louisa wars."
With all of his many and manifold flaws, she loves him. That's good enough for me. Who am I to second-guess her? Ditto for him -- she has a lot of issues and certainly brings baggage to their relationship, but he's crazy about her, and that's also good enough for me. Who's to say they would be as attracted to each other as they are, without the obvious (to us) character flaws? Remember, Louisa was none too nice to him at their first meeting, and he couldn't keep his eyes off of her.
They mesh on some level, whether we like it or not. At least, implausible as it may seem from outside, I'm pretty sure that's what we're meant to believe. And it really is about how their interactions on other levels go so badly awry, not who is to blame in each instance. That's an endless game that really goes nowhere, between couples.
Certainly, each is going to have to make some changes in how they interact with each other. I think they're approximately equal in dysfunction, which seems pretty typical to me. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out in S7.
You got it wrong way 'round. It was Louisa saying that what she loved about DM was that he was steadfast and moral. Never said L was steadfast. She's emotional and sparky w/ whims, mind-changing, and etc but always has her moral compass pointed in the direction of deep romantic love.
Yeah, she is prideful and hides her feelings; yes, her deepest feelings of hurt, disappointment and rejection FROM HIM. We saw a little of that in S4. The audience always sees more, don't they?
I do not feel it is unfair to pick out one line or so and comment on it. After all, at least that means I'm seriously reading posts and not skimming over them loosely.
I think we shall have to agree to disagree on LG hiding her feelings. I honestly do not see that. When she is hurt, disappointed or feeling rejected, she pushes him away, breaks up with DM, deliberately disavows his medical advice, or move out of their home, etc. Everyone but DM can figure out clearly what is going on. Strong and silent LG is not!
I would also call her more "defensive" than prideful. She does not brag she is head mistress, for example, but does get plenty defensive about her ability to do the job well, etc.
I find this so ridiculous. Honestly, posters here pick one or two words and then go off.
Wait, I do that, too?
Carol, we need to find some L fans. Help me, willya?? She's MyGirl, like a sista!!
Why isn't Martin the topic of discussion. Why??!?! Heehee, j/k.
Martin is cunning, clever and deceptive. He's brilliant and has all of you fooled.
I'm with you about Louisa. I've been on this forum regularly since 2011. I used to defend her just as you and Carol are doing.
I got sick of the argumentative nature of some of the discussions. I felt attacked for my comments, and the discussion was often to prove other people wrong.
You seem to have much thicker skin than I do. I admire that!!! I'm burned out on the belligerence. I'm here, and I'm rooting for you, but I just don't have it in me to enter the fray on that subject anymore.
I'm with you about Louisa. I've been on this forum regularly since 2011. I used to defend her just as you and Carol are doing.
I got sick of the argumentative nature of some of the discussions. I felt attacked for my comments, and the discussion was often to prove other people wrong.
You seem to have much thicker skin than I do. I admire that!!! I'm burned out on the belligerence. I'm here, and I'm rooting for you, but I just don't have it in me to enter the fray on that subject anymore.
Here we are again!
I think this is a sad state on the modern understanding of discussion. Voltaire, who quoted, "I do not agree with what you have to say but I'll defend to the death you're right to say it," must be turning in his grave.
Discussion does not mean that everyone must agree with you. In fact, discussion is more interesting when there are several viewpoints and people are noting their subjective and objective views on a topic. A person's idea that "my view must be right because have it, and the character I love must be perfect because I feel she is, and if you disagree you are attacking me personally", is hardly a starting point for fascinating analyses and discourses into the complexity of TV fictional people, and TV fictional plots, and TV fictional villages.
To consider people belligerent because they are not in love with LG has always been more of a problem for the list than people actually discussing characters as they wish, thoughtfully bringing up virtues and flaws on what is defined as a Doc Martin forum.
Considering I have been picking out lines to comment on, and have been mentioning aspects of LG which are not flowing with endless praise I imagine you are referring to me. However, at this point, I really do not care if people say I am out of hand or am personally attacking them, when I am discussing that LG does not hide her feelings. Every adult at some point in life has to take responsibility for their own feelings, and not blame others, including people on the list.
If you are miserable because of my noting LG/E can be, for example, bitchy at times, there is, I'm sorry, nothing I can do about it. To enhance your moods while on the Forum, I suggest regular exercise, Omega-3 oils, good sleep, watching humorous things on TV, meditating, and a spiritual connection to something higher and better than the canon of Doc Martin.
<<<<Carol A. I think you have mistaken her for someone in Mexico. If you choose, you can continue to be wrong, but that's not usually the logical way to deal with an error.>>>>
I don't consider my views as being "in the L camp" at all. It's not a question of L camp or DM camp. jIt's just that some interpretations here were so whacky I felt I had to state what I see going on in DM. And it's others that are interpreting that as ... whatever.
This isn't a blood sport. We are, afterall, just fans discussing a popular culture tv show.
Comments
In my opinion, she had suppressed her maternal instincts to do her job with chikdren in a neutral way. It was only Martin's comment about her motherhood that may have allowed her wish for a child to re-surface. When she discovered her pregnancy in London, I suspect she was thrilled and terrified. As I recall, Martin's first comment to her when he learned she was pregnant was to say it was too late for an abortion. Because Martin often treats things as a medical issue, I think Louisa may have feared his reaction would be to treat her pregnancy as a medical matter and first suggest an abortion. I think that would have been unbearable for her in the emotionally vulnerable early stage of pregnancy. While I don't condone her not telling Martin immediately, I understand why she did not. When she knew her return to Portwenn was imminent, she should have contacted him by then. I don't think she was brave or cowardly, but a woman who did not want anyone to interfere with her happiness at this unexpected child. She did what she did and we have series 4 in response to her decision.
Hello, Carol, I know you are LG biggest fan, which is fine. But, I cannot see how you deem her "steadfast". How many times has she over-reacted and kicked DM out of cars, been susceptible to others' views, broken up with him, or left him?
Merriam Webster defines steadfast as: firmly fixed in place; not subject to change; firm in belief, adherence.
If there is one thing DM the series has shown us is that LG is by no means "steadfast"!
I'm sorry which Louisa are you referring to? Certainly not the LG of DM, right? ;-)
Her feelings are never hidden! They are all over the place all the time. She is very emotional and shows them openly. Remember, you cannot judge her expressions of feeling through the intuitiveness of DM, as he is so frequently clueless, but, come on, the audience always gets what is going on with her, because it is so evident.
In my last two posts I am not judging LG because I dislike her; she's a good character, and very complex. But, she ain't steadfast and doesn't hide her feelings!
Actually his first remark was a proposal . . . of sorts. Ironically what they both wanted most, but L turned him down flat.:(
Yeah, she is prideful and hides her feelings; yes, her deepest feelings of hurt, disappointment and rejection FROM HIM. We saw a little of that in S4. The audience always sees more, don't they?
Wait, I do that, too?
Carol, we need to find some L fans. Help me, willya?? She's MyGirl, like a sista!!
Why isn't Martin the topic of discussion. Why??!?! Heehee, j/k.
Martin is cunning, clever and deceptive. He's brilliant and has all of you fooled.
What an awful thing to do, to anyone. And I suppose she thought the child would be ok not know who his father was and not having the benefit of a father in his life? As for the wanting children....she could have easily gone to a sperm bank. She was in love with Martin...in a crazy chemical way...she didn't just want more kids...she wanted him in her life, as difficult as it might be. She knows there is more to him than his gruff, non-communicative exterior. She still had hope that it might show, which it did throughout S4 but she chose not to recognize it...eg. Wanting to take her to her antenatal. That was pretty demonstrative don't you think?
Crazy, chemical way? She was in love with the baby, and a wee bit in love with him. Is that better? ;-)
Yes, he was sweet, at times. Love him, too. Sigh, why do I love them. Why?
This is what the show stumbled into ( I think stumbled - but would love to hear from the writers to prove me wrong that it was deliberate) : they made characters that are well-rounded just enough - flaws, negative qualities, beauty, lovely inner natures, senses of fun, and etc. - to be like real life in other words, only better cuz it's scripted.
The 2nd brilliant thing I think the writers did ( less likely to be a stumble though) is to make the writing spare so that the viewers must connect the dots. Brilliant!
After listening to some of the actors' quotes (rhetoric), I think some of the tension and
prickly friction has been infused by the actors. They, obviously, have fun playing it. Eyeroll. Also, I watched a discussion with LG and other notables and she made a point about not wanting to play the typical female lead, Mom, that always gets it right. I'm not even paraphrasing because I don't recall most of it but she has her hand in shaping the character and many actors like to play "feet of clay", or whatever.
Random thought: I prefer actors just shut-up and entertain me. I don't care how they draw the character or search the subtext, blahblahblah. They just need to shutup ...entertain me, folks. I require little else. Don't tell me - show me.
I'm reminded of a MC audio, and he talks about the Doc's state of mind S4, he also references his relationship with the EagerRedHead. The actor explains that Doc and his issues stem from the broken relationship. He also talks about being heartbroken over Louisa. Really - I didn't see that. He was his impatient, grumpy self.
They just need to shutup. Actors are annoying...
Incoming.
I think you could say that DM immediately interjecting: "do you want to get married" when he and L are on the surgery patio in Epi 2 of S 4 could portray his deep love for her. I think he, like he has all his life, just deeply buried his love for her when they did the unwedding thing. He didn't spend the next few months "gestating" - oh good one! - over it or even thinking about how/why/when the relationship with L ended. He never does cuz it hurts too much. Whereas L was gestating - both literally and figuratively! ha!
Her moral compass pointed in the direction of deep romantic love? Quite an unusual turn of a phrase...I'm not sure what it means though.
I find watching and listening to actors explain their art and what they find is their characters motivation extremely fascinating. It reminds me of the literature classes I took in my overly thorough education......what was Scout thinking when Atticus defended Boo Radley?.......what did the Sirens represent to Odysseus? It shows which actors are intelligent and thinking while they work, unlike the new crop of "Ken doll" actors, Channing Tatum or the Hemsworth boys, that are gaining stardom in the States....doubt that they give a second thought to what "Thor's" motivation was. It's my bread and butter...I love it. So if Caroline Catz wants to discuss LOUISA'S motivation bring it on. That is the correct spelling in the credits, Carol A. I think you have mistaken her for someone in Mexico. If you choose, you can continue to be wrong, but that's not usually the logical way to deal with an error.
No, in my opinion it was chemical and emotional. You can smell the pheremones and feel the heat every time they kissed on screen right through the television set. They are HOT. It's one of the many reasons I love and will continue to watch the program.
I agree -- that I'm interested almost as much in the craft of what they're doing as in the plot.
My first strong reaction to the series was watching MArtin's interaction with his mother in S2, and wondering, how in earth did he just convey so much emotion, with so little movement and dialogue.
I went to college with and roomed with lots of people in the theater department, which left me with not much interest in actors, frankly. But this series has more or less changed my mind. So I listen when they talk about what they think they are doing.
With all of his many and manifold flaws, she loves him. That's good enough for me. Who am I to second-guess her? Ditto for him -- she has a lot of issues and certainly brings baggage to their relationship, but he's crazy about her, and that's also good enough for me. Who's to say they would be as attracted to each other as they are, without the obvious (to us) character flaws? Remember, Louisa was none too nice to him at their first meeting, and he couldn't keep his eyes off of her.
They mesh on some level, whether we like it or not. At least, implausible as it may seem from outside, I'm pretty sure that's what we're meant to believe. And it really is about how their interactions on other levels go so badly awry, not who is to blame in each instance. That's an endless game that really goes nowhere, between couples.
Certainly, each is going to have to make some changes in how they interact with each other. I think they're approximately equal in dysfunction, which seems pretty typical to me. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out in S7.
Oh, my apologies! Thank you for clarifying.
I do not feel it is unfair to pick out one line or so and comment on it. After all, at least that means I'm seriously reading posts and not skimming over them loosely.
I think we shall have to agree to disagree on LG hiding her feelings. I honestly do not see that. When she is hurt, disappointed or feeling rejected, she pushes him away, breaks up with DM, deliberately disavows his medical advice, or move out of their home, etc. Everyone but DM can figure out clearly what is going on. Strong and silent LG is not!
I would also call her more "defensive" than prideful. She does not brag she is head mistress, for example, but does get plenty defensive about her ability to do the job well, etc.
I'm with you about Louisa. I've been on this forum regularly since 2011. I used to defend her just as you and Carol are doing.
I got sick of the argumentative nature of some of the discussions. I felt attacked for my comments, and the discussion was often to prove other people wrong.
You seem to have much thicker skin than I do. I admire that!!! I'm burned out on the belligerence. I'm here, and I'm rooting for you, but I just don't have it in me to enter the fray on that subject anymore.
Here we are again!
I think this is a sad state on the modern understanding of discussion. Voltaire, who quoted, "I do not agree with what you have to say but I'll defend to the death you're right to say it," must be turning in his grave.
Discussion does not mean that everyone must agree with you. In fact, discussion is more interesting when there are several viewpoints and people are noting their subjective and objective views on a topic. A person's idea that "my view must be right because have it, and the character I love must be perfect because I feel she is, and if you disagree you are attacking me personally", is hardly a starting point for fascinating analyses and discourses into the complexity of TV fictional people, and TV fictional plots, and TV fictional villages.
To consider people belligerent because they are not in love with LG has always been more of a problem for the list than people actually discussing characters as they wish, thoughtfully bringing up virtues and flaws on what is defined as a Doc Martin forum.
Considering I have been picking out lines to comment on, and have been mentioning aspects of LG which are not flowing with endless praise I imagine you are referring to me. However, at this point, I really do not care if people say I am out of hand or am personally attacking them, when I am discussing that LG does not hide her feelings. Every adult at some point in life has to take responsibility for their own feelings, and not blame others, including people on the list.
If you are miserable because of my noting LG/E can be, for example, bitchy at times, there is, I'm sorry, nothing I can do about it. To enhance your moods while on the Forum, I suggest regular exercise, Omega-3 oils, good sleep, watching humorous things on TV, meditating, and a spiritual connection to something higher and better than the canon of Doc Martin.
Good grief! It was a typo, Melinda.
I don't consider my views as being "in the L camp" at all. It's not a question of L camp or DM camp. jIt's just that some interpretations here were so whacky I felt I had to state what I see going on in DM. And it's others that are interpreting that as ... whatever.
This isn't a blood sport. We are, afterall, just fans discussing a popular culture tv show.