In a development that occurred since the appearance of the first local radio stations on Freeview, in September 2014, the BBC advised viewers in some areas, including those receiving signals from the Sheffield, Chesterfield and Ridge Hill transmitter groups, that they would need to retune following engineering works on the PSB1/BBC-A multiplex. Importantly, there were no frequency changes involved, nor any BBC region changes, nor any changes to commercial regional services, indicating that it could have been related to the configuration of PSB1 in these areas only.
In view of the issue of local radio on Freeview, the fact that the changes only affected viewers receiving BBC Freeview services in parts of the PSB1/ BBC-A regions listed earlier in this thread makes me wonder.
Without knowing or seeing the TS data for the relevant transmitters before and after the change, I wonder - did the change bring rogue transmitter groups in line with the main regional transmitters creating the PSB1/BBCA regions listed above, or did the change split the PSB1 regions to facilitate a future change?
e.g. On the one hand we're told there is just one PSB1 multiplex with the same data streams for the West Midlands from Sutton Coldfield, Wrekin and Ridge Hill transmitter groups, but on the other hand when there was an engineering change to the PSB1 multiplex on the 3rd September, why just Ridge Hill? What was or is now different at PSB1 Ridge Hill to the rest of the West Midlands? Bringing it back to local radio, a split at Ridge Hill would obviously be beneficial in any attempt to add every local radio station on Freeview.
Constructive thoughts?
New TSIDs were allocated for BBC A in these areas 4176 for Ridge Hill and 4177 for Sheffield. Still carrying the same services (SIDs) as Sutton Coldfield and Emley Moor respectively.
This gives the BBC some flexibility to split services to these locations in the future. Whether they ever take up the option to do that remains to be seen.
Originally posted in the BBC WM thread (subsequently closed).
New TSIDs were allocated for BBC A in these areas 4176 for Ridge Hill and 4177 for Sheffield. Still carrying the same services (SIDs) as Sutton Coldfield and Emley Moor respectively.
This gives the BBC some flexibility to split services to these locations in the future. Whether they ever take up the option to do that remains to be seen.
So on Ridge Hill then does BBC1 have SID 4176 as well with BBC2 4240?
And for Sheffield, 4177 and 4241 respectively? Can anyone confirm? Thanks
So on Ridge Hill then does BBC1 have SID 4176 as well with BBC2 4240?
And for Sheffield, 4177 and 4241 respectively? Can anyone confirm? Thanks
No, as I said, "still carrying the same services (SIDs) as Sutton Coldfield and Emley Moor respectively". The BBC1 SID for Sheffield is the same as Emley Moor (4170) and the BBC1 SID for Ridge Hill is the same as Sutton Coldfield (4165). Only the TSIDs are different.
BBC2 hasn't had a regional structure within England for a very long time, the SID for BBC2 throughout England is 4287.
Some useful info by the OP and other posters on this thread. I only just realised local BBC radio stations were added to Freeview a couple of weeks ago when I noticed BBC Radio Kent after re-tuning my tv. It was a pleasant surprise to see it on tv that's for sure!
I have just one question though. When I first got Freeview in 2003 I actually wondered way back then why local BBC radio stations weren't already available on that platform so I asked the question here on DS. The response I got at the time was that it was technically too difficult to do for various reasons to do do with the layout of the DTT system and where the transmitters were located. It made sense at the time so didn't expect to ever see the local stations on Freeview. Yet now they've made it on to Freeview!
So the question is, if it can be both technically possible and financially viable to do it now, why wasn't it done more than a decade ago?
Some useful info by the OP and other posters on this thread. I only just realised local BBC radio stations were added to Freeview a couple of weeks ago when I noticed BBC Radio Kent after re-tuning my tv. It was a pleasant surprise to see it on tv that's for sure!
I have just one question though. When I first got Freeview in 2003 I actually wondered way back then why local BBC radio stations weren't already available on that platform so I asked the question here on DS. The response I got at the time was that it was technically too difficult to do for various reasons to do do with the layout of the DTT system and where the transmitters were located. It made sense at the time so didn't expect to ever see the local stations on Freeview. Yet now they've made it on to Freeview!
So the question is, if it can be both technically possible and financially viable to do it now, why wasn't it done more than a decade ago?
Back in 2003 the BBC Multiplexes had the rationality added at the local TV studios / transmitter sites, so those locations would have needed to be able to receive the various BBC Local Radio stations off air.
Since then a number of changes have happened
1. All BBC LR stations now go to a central hub (for iPlayer)
2. All Freeview multiplexes are played out from London
3. The transmission modes have changes increasing capacity
4. Compression methods have improved allowing further space for local radio
LR is back hauled to central coding and mux fir sending to its transmitters as well as fir iplayer .... And with vilor there will be very little kit at the station.
Coding and mux has been centralised .... And the kit has a spare audio coder half card.
Getting this to happen has been on the cards since 2003 ... But it has to wait until a tech refreshes / new contracts and political intent merge!!!
Back in 2003 the BBC Multiplexes had the rationality added at the local TV studios / transmitter sites, so those locations would have needed to be able to receive the various BBC Local Radio stations off air.
Since then a number of changes have happened
1. All BBC LR stations now go to a central hub (for iPlayer)
2. All Freeview multiplexes are played out from London
3. The transmission modes have changes increasing capacity
4. Compression methods have improved allowing further space for local radio
LR is back hauled to central coding and mux fir sending to its transmitters as well as fir iplayer .... And with vilor there will be very little kit at the station.
Coding and mux has been centralised .... And the kit has a spare audio coder half card.
Getting this to happen has been on the cards since 2003 ... But it has to wait until a tech refreshes / new contracts and political intent merge!!!
Thanks for the replies. I have another question. How is the BBC London Freeview tv area going to fit in all those BBC LR stations for the surrounding counties in addition to the BBC London LR station itself? I know it won't be a problem for me as I live in the BBC south east region which only covers three BBC LR station areas but I'm curious how they're going to cope as BBC London covers quite a lot more LR areas than the four Freeview EPG channels the BBC seem to have reserved for LR stations. Does anyone have any idea what, if anything, BBC London can do to accomodate this problem?
Thanks for the replies. I have another question. How is the BBC London Freeview tv area going to fit in all those BBC LR stations for the surrounding counties in addition to the BBC London LR station itself? I know it won't be a problem for me as I live in the BBC south east region which only covers three BBC LR station areas but I'm curious how they're going to cope as BBC London covers quite a lot more LR areas than the four Freeview EPG channels the BBC seem to have reserved for LR stations. Does anyone have any idea what, if anything, BBC London can do to accomodate this problem?
I could get overly complicated and explain that slots have been reserved for up to 5 local radio stations from within each editorial region. It's slightly pointless as some regions will, inevitably, be adding local stations from adjacent areas with overlapping coverage.
Multiplex configurations can be changed to accommodate the extra streams, just as they have been changed in Scotland to accommodate BBC Alba. It's pointless to guess at what could or would be changed at this stage as there's no indication that extra services will be added any time soon.
technologist refers to the changes to local radio being on the cards since 2003. I certainly remember the BBC talking about working towards streaming all BBC local radio stations in stereo around that time. 12 years later and the BBC are still using a mono source to stream some of the local radio stations. The plans are there, development is on going but progress has been very slow.
There's no point considering how the mux config. could be changed to accommodate the extra services without knowing when they will arrive. By the time they eventually arrive the mux config. may have already changed substantially. With this rate of progress the BBC may have switched over to DVB-T2 by the time they arrive.
In short, the changes needed can and will be made as they are required but, without a timescale, it's pointless to predict how it will be done.
And four more (in addition to Nottingham) have appeared on Waltham
After filtering and reordering (without PCR and PMT)
Index PID Type Language Details
1 0x0dae / 3502 MPEG2AUDIO eng # BBC Radio Leicester
1 0x0e76 / 3702 MPEG2AUDIO eng # BBC Radio Northants
1 0x0e12 / 3602 MPEG2AUDIO eng # BBC Radio Derby
1 0x0d4a / 3402 MPEG2AUDIO eng # BBC Radio Lincolnshire
Can anyone check Sutton Coldfield - is it APID 3202 for Radio WM by the way?
There may be four more on there as well. The current full list of Freeview I know of is as follows:
Radio on BBCA/PSB1:
1002 (1000): Radio 1
1102 (1100): Radio 2
1202 (1200): Radio 3
1302 (1300): Radio 4 DAB
1402 (1400): Radio 5 Live
1502 (1500): Radio 5 Live Sports Extra
1602 (1600): Radio 6 Music
1702 (1700): Radio 4 Extra
1802 (1800): Radio 1 Xtra
1902 (1900): Asian Network
2002 (2000): World Service
3202 (3200) 6148: BBC London 94.9 (Crystal Palace)
6149: BBC Radio WM (Sutton Coldfield)
3202 (3200) 6151: BBC Radio Norfolk
3202 (3200) 6152: BBC Radio Bristol (Mendip)
3202 (3200): BBC Radio Manchester (Winter Hill)
3202 (3200) 6153: BBC Radio Newcastle (Bilsdale)
3202 (3200) 6154: BBC Radio Leeds (Emley Moor)
3302 (3300) 6510: BBC Radio Nottingham (Waltham/Nottingham)
3302 (3300) 6210: BBC Radio Devon (Caradon Hill)
3402 (3400) 6284: BBC Radio Surrey (Crystal Palace)
3402 (3400) 6216: BBC Radio Lancashire (Winter Hill)
3402 (3400): BBC Radio Lincolnshire (Waltham/Nottingham)
3502 (3500) 6275: BBC Radio Berkshire (Crystal Palace)
3502 (3500) 6285: BBC Radio Cambridgeshire (Sandy Hath)
3502 (3500) 6213: BBC Radio Stoke (Winter Hill)
3502 (3500): BBC Radio Leicester (Waltham/Nottingham)
3602 (3600) 6157: BBC 3 Counties Radio (Crystal Palace)
3602 (3600) 6280: BBC Radio Merseyside (Winter Hill)
3602 (3600): BBC Radio Derby (Waltham/Nottingham)
3702 (3700) 6279: BBC Essex (Crystal Palace)
3702 (3700) 6280: BBC Radio Cumbria (Winter Hill)
3702 (3700): BBC Radio Northampton (Waltham/Nottingham)
Can anyone fill in the rest please? I managed to fill in the blanks for Crystal Palace as someone posted the numbers in post 105 in this thread. What is for example on Bilsdale and Pontop Pke etc etc? WE know what they should be but if anyone can add what is actually broadcast on the missing transmitters please can you let us know.
Can anyone check Sutton Coldfield - is it APID 3202 for Radio WM by the way?
There may be four more on there as well. The current full list of Freeview I know of is as follows:
Radio on BBCA/PSB1:
1002 (1000): Radio 1
1102 (1100): Radio 2
1202 (1200): Radio 3
1302 (1300): Radio 4 DAB
1402 (1400): Radio 5 Live
1502 (1500): Radio 5 Live Sports Extra
1602 (1600): Radio 6 Music
1702 (1700): Radio 4 Extra
1802 (1800): Radio 1 Xtra
1902 (1900): Asian Network
2002 (2000): World Service
3202 (3200) 6148: BBC London 94.9 (Crystal Palace)
6149: BBC Radio WM (Sutton Coldfield)
3202 (3200) 6151: BBC Radio Norfolk
3202 (3200) 6152: BBC Radio Bristol (Mendip)
3202 (3200): BBC Radio Manchester (Winter Hill)
3202 (3200) 6153: BBC Radio Newcastle (Bilsdale)
3202 (3200) 6154: BBC Radio Leeds (Emley Moor)
3302 (3300) 6510: BBC Radio Nottingham (Waltham/Nottingham)
3302 (3300) 6210: BBC Radio Devon (Caradon Hill)
3402 (3400) 6284: BBC Radio Surrey (Crystal Palace)
3402 (3400) 6216: BBC Radio Lancashire (Winter Hill)
3402 (3400): BBC Radio Lincolnshire (Waltham/Nottingham)
3502 (3500) 6275: BBC Radio Berkshire (Crystal Palace)
3502 (3500) 6285: BBC Radio Cambridgeshire (Sandy Hath)
3502 (3500) 6213: BBC Radio Stoke (Winter Hill)
3502 (3500): BBC Radio Leicester (Waltham/Nottingham)
3602 (3600) 6157: BBC 3 Counties Radio (Crystal Palace)
3602 (3600) 6280: BBC Radio Merseyside (Winter Hill)
3602 (3600): BBC Radio Derby (Waltham/Nottingham)
3702 (3700) 6279: BBC Essex (Crystal Palace)
3702 (3700) 6280: BBC Radio Cumbria (Winter Hill)
3702 (3700): BBC Radio Northampton (Waltham/Nottingham)
Can anyone fill in the rest please? I managed to fill in the blanks for Crystal Palace as someone posted the numbers in post 105 in this thread. What is for example on Bilsdale and Pontop Pke etc etc? WE know what they should be but if anyone can add what is actually broadcast on the missing transmitters please can you let us know.
Thanks. Do you have the APIDs for these please? Also shouldn't Radio Shropshire also be there? I wonder what region that will go on?
Also any news from South West, West, North East, East, South East, South, North East and Channel Islands regions please. Also, what about on Caldbeck serving Border region? Are the LR line-up here the same as Pontop Pike?
Also any news from South West, West, North East, East, South East, South, North East and Channel Islands regions please. Also, what about on Caldbeck serving Border region? Are the LR line-up here the same as Pontop Pike?
Added to Emley Moor & Belmont:
Radio Lincolnshire SID 6159 PMT 3400 APID 3402
Radio Humberside SID 6223 PMT 3500 APID 3502
Radio Sheffield SID 6218 PMT 3700 APID 3702
Added to Emley Moor:
Radio York SID 6282 PMT 3300 APID 3302
Added to Belmont:
Radio Nottingham SID 6150 PMT 3300 APID 3302
Radio Norfolk SID 6151 PMT 3200 APID 3202
..Also shouldn't Radio Shropshire also be there? I wonder what region that will go on?
Possibly not enough space at the moment. Note that 6 PIDs appear to have been allocated for local radio PMT PIDs across the regions: 3200, 3300, 3400, 3500, 3600 and 3700. The currently available information indicates that only 5 PMTs are currently allocated, suggesting that an extra PID number may have been reserved for future expansion.
Conveniently I am not in Cornwall for the next day or so so I can't see what Caradon Hill has, but if they've added anything Radio Cornwall would be a shoe in, maybe Radio Somerset / Radio Solent too
I will have a look when I get back unless someone else does it first.
Conveniently I am not in Cornwall for the next day or so so I can't see what Caradon Hill has, but if they've added anything Radio Cornwall would be a shoe in, maybe Radio Somerset / Radio Solent too
I will have a look when I get back unless someone else does it first.
Comments
What didn't you understand about this post, up thread ?
http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showpost.php?p=77272400&postcount=92
New TSIDs were allocated for BBC A in these areas 4176 for Ridge Hill and 4177 for Sheffield. Still carrying the same services (SIDs) as Sutton Coldfield and Emley Moor respectively.
This gives the BBC some flexibility to split services to these locations in the future. Whether they ever take up the option to do that remains to be seen.
So on Ridge Hill then does BBC1 have SID 4176 as well with BBC2 4240?
And for Sheffield, 4177 and 4241 respectively? Can anyone confirm? Thanks
No, as I said, "still carrying the same services (SIDs) as Sutton Coldfield and Emley Moor respectively". The BBC1 SID for Sheffield is the same as Emley Moor (4170) and the BBC1 SID for Ridge Hill is the same as Sutton Coldfield (4165). Only the TSIDs are different.
BBC2 hasn't had a regional structure within England for a very long time, the SID for BBC2 throughout England is 4287.
It has been confirmed.
I have just one question though. When I first got Freeview in 2003 I actually wondered way back then why local BBC radio stations weren't already available on that platform so I asked the question here on DS. The response I got at the time was that it was technically too difficult to do for various reasons to do do with the layout of the DTT system and where the transmitters were located. It made sense at the time so didn't expect to ever see the local stations on Freeview. Yet now they've made it on to Freeview!
So the question is, if it can be both technically possible and financially viable to do it now, why wasn't it done more than a decade ago?
Since then a number of changes have happened
1. All BBC LR stations now go to a central hub (for iPlayer)
2. All Freeview multiplexes are played out from London
3. The transmission modes have changes increasing capacity
4. Compression methods have improved allowing further space for local radio
LR is back hauled to central coding and mux fir sending to its transmitters as well as fir iplayer .... And with vilor there will be very little kit at the station.
Coding and mux has been centralised .... And the kit has a spare audio coder half card.
Getting this to happen has been on the cards since 2003 ... But it has to wait until a tech refreshes / new contracts and political intent merge!!!
I could get overly complicated and explain that slots have been reserved for up to 5 local radio stations from within each editorial region. It's slightly pointless as some regions will, inevitably, be adding local stations from adjacent areas with overlapping coverage.
Multiplex configurations can be changed to accommodate the extra streams, just as they have been changed in Scotland to accommodate BBC Alba. It's pointless to guess at what could or would be changed at this stage as there's no indication that extra services will be added any time soon.
technologist refers to the changes to local radio being on the cards since 2003. I certainly remember the BBC talking about working towards streaming all BBC local radio stations in stereo around that time. 12 years later and the BBC are still using a mono source to stream some of the local radio stations. The plans are there, development is on going but progress has been very slow.
There's no point considering how the mux config. could be changed to accommodate the extra services without knowing when they will arrive. By the time they eventually arrive the mux config. may have already changed substantially. With this rate of progress the BBC may have switched over to DVB-T2 by the time they arrive.
In short, the changes needed can and will be made as they are required but, without a timescale, it's pointless to predict how it will be done.
3200 was already there and is BBC Manchester, I've not yet identified the new 4.
Edit: now identified:
3402 lancashire
3502 stoke
3602 merseyside
3702 cumbria
Note - these are hidden tests and may change.
So that'll potentially be 5 from Winter Hill? They won't have enough LCNs for that.
Ohhh ! Radio section LCN reshuffle coming up ?
726 is free
After filtering and reordering (without PCR and PMT)
Index PID Type Language Details
1 0x0dae / 3502 MPEG2AUDIO eng # BBC Radio Leicester
1 0x0e76 / 3702 MPEG2AUDIO eng # BBC Radio Northants
1 0x0e12 / 3602 MPEG2AUDIO eng # BBC Radio Derby
1 0x0d4a / 3402 MPEG2AUDIO eng # BBC Radio Lincolnshire
They do show up on an ET8000
Full details (labels show as frequency in MHz followed by sID number in hex
APID 3402 (sid 6216): Radio Lancashire
APID 3502 (SID 6213): Radio Stoke
APID 3602 (SID 6280): Radio Merseyside
APID 3702 (SID 6217): Radio Cumbria
There may be four more on there as well. The current full list of Freeview I know of is as follows:
Radio on BBCA/PSB1:
1002 (1000): Radio 1
1102 (1100): Radio 2
1202 (1200): Radio 3
1302 (1300): Radio 4 DAB
1402 (1400): Radio 5 Live
1502 (1500): Radio 5 Live Sports Extra
1602 (1600): Radio 6 Music
1702 (1700): Radio 4 Extra
1802 (1800): Radio 1 Xtra
1902 (1900): Asian Network
2002 (2000): World Service
3202 (3200) 6148: BBC London 94.9 (Crystal Palace)
6149: BBC Radio WM (Sutton Coldfield)
3202 (3200) 6151: BBC Radio Norfolk
3202 (3200) 6152: BBC Radio Bristol (Mendip)
3202 (3200): BBC Radio Manchester (Winter Hill)
3202 (3200) 6153: BBC Radio Newcastle (Bilsdale)
3202 (3200) 6154: BBC Radio Leeds (Emley Moor)
3302 (3300) 6510: BBC Radio Nottingham (Waltham/Nottingham)
3302 (3300) 6210: BBC Radio Devon (Caradon Hill)
3402 (3400) 6284: BBC Radio Surrey (Crystal Palace)
3402 (3400) 6216: BBC Radio Lancashire (Winter Hill)
3402 (3400): BBC Radio Lincolnshire (Waltham/Nottingham)
3502 (3500) 6275: BBC Radio Berkshire (Crystal Palace)
3502 (3500) 6285: BBC Radio Cambridgeshire (Sandy Hath)
3502 (3500) 6213: BBC Radio Stoke (Winter Hill)
3502 (3500): BBC Radio Leicester (Waltham/Nottingham)
3602 (3600) 6157: BBC 3 Counties Radio (Crystal Palace)
3602 (3600) 6280: BBC Radio Merseyside (Winter Hill)
3602 (3600): BBC Radio Derby (Waltham/Nottingham)
3702 (3700) 6279: BBC Essex (Crystal Palace)
3702 (3700) 6280: BBC Radio Cumbria (Winter Hill)
3702 (3700): BBC Radio Northampton (Waltham/Nottingham)
Can anyone fill in the rest please? I managed to fill in the blanks for Crystal Palace as someone posted the numbers in post 105 in this thread. What is for example on Bilsdale and Pontop Pke etc etc? WE know what they should be but if anyone can add what is actually broadcast on the missing transmitters please can you let us know.
Thanks
6213 - Stoke
6214 - Derby
6277 - Hereford & Worcester
6405 - Coventry & Warwickshire
Thanks. Do you have the APIDs for these please? Also shouldn't Radio Shropshire also be there? I wonder what region that will go on?
Also any news from South West, West, North East, East, South East, South, North East and Channel Islands regions please. Also, what about on Caldbeck serving Border region? Are the LR line-up here the same as Pontop Pike?
Added to Emley Moor & Belmont:
Radio Lincolnshire SID 6159 PMT 3400 APID 3402
Radio Humberside SID 6223 PMT 3500 APID 3502
Radio Sheffield SID 6218 PMT 3700 APID 3702
Added to Emley Moor:
Radio York SID 6282 PMT 3300 APID 3302
Added to Belmont:
Radio Nottingham SID 6150 PMT 3300 APID 3302
Radio Norfolk SID 6151 PMT 3200 APID 3202
Ummm, those SID numbers are in decimal, definitely not hex.
Possibly not enough space at the moment. Note that 6 PIDs appear to have been allocated for local radio PMT PIDs across the regions: 3200, 3300, 3400, 3500, 3600 and 3700. The currently available information indicates that only 5 PMTs are currently allocated, suggesting that an extra PID number may have been reserved for future expansion.
Still waiting on info from
Caldbeck
Pontop Pike
Bilsdale
Taccolneston
Sandy Heath
Sudbury
Rowridge
Oxford
Hannington
Midhurst
Bluebell Hill
Dover
Hastings
Whitehawk Hill
Tunbridge Wells
Mendip
Huntshaw Cross
Caradon Hill
Beacon Hill
Redruth
Fremont Point
Also, what does Olivers Mount take?
(I thinbk I have accounted for all of them now!)
Thanks.
I will have a look when I get back unless someone else does it first.
Thank you