After going through the trauma of being raped, the thought of not being believed and of being labelled a liar is not just scary it's terrifying. Women like the one in this story make it a lot harder for genuine rape victims to feel able to come forward about their attack AND to get their rapist convicted if they do come forward.
Think that through. If there wasn't the mob ready to attack those who report rape and the reluctance to believe them then would a alleged victim feel her case needed bolstering by acting extra tearful? Besides which that is not actually a crime. It throws doubt on her evidence but is not actually perjury nor is it proof she lied. Being over dramatic is not lying any more than turning up to court in a suit and neat hair is when you normally are scruffy. It's meant to change the impression you make but it isn't lying.
Those that want to label all rape victims liars are going to do it anyway. She's not responsible for that (even if she lied) - they are. Just like a black person who mugs someone isn't responsible for the racist who then goes on to claim black people are criminals.
I don't think many people would try to argue that the names of ALL people whos rape allegations don't result in a conviction should be made public.
However, in case like this (which is pretty rare and unique) I see no convincing reason why she should not be tried in a court and face a prison sentence.
really? no convincing evidence she lied on court while under oath which resulted in someone being jailed for 3 years, why she she not be tried for perjury which carries a custodial sentence
Think that through. If there wasn't the mob ready to attack those who report rape and the reluctance to believe them then would a alleged victim feel her case needed bolstering by acting extra tearful? Besides which that is not actually a crime. It throws doubt on her evidence but is not actually perjury nor is it proof she lied. Being over dramatic is not lying any more than turning up to court in a suit and neat hair is when you normally are scruffy. It's meant to change the impression you make but it isn't lying.
Those that want to label all rape victims liars are going to do it anyway. She's not responsible for that (even if she lied) - they are. Just like a black person who mugs someone isn't responsible for the racist who then goes on to claim black people are criminals.
BIB - Except that's not all she's alleged to have done, according to the link in the OP she out-and-out lied.
There was also ‘fresh evidence’ from a number of other witnesses, which indicated the woman had admitted making up her allegations against Mr Aslam, the judges were told.
It will be interesting to see if she's charged and if so what the outcome of that is, just like anyone accused of any crime she is innocent until proven guilty.
In the case of genuine victims who try to find the best way to act in order to be believed and get their attacker convicted then I totally agree with the first part of your post.
As for the second part, I'm not talking about people who have an agenda and automatically label all rape victims as liars. While she isn't solely responsible for people not believing rape victims, every time one of these made-up rape allegations stories comes out it does (sometimes subconsciously) chip away at some people's view of alleged rape victims.
And even then the main thing I was talking about was a rape victims perception of whether they'll be believed or not, and how when you're already feeling totally broken down stories like this don't help with finding the confidence to come forward.
It's easy for the poster I quoted to say that if you're a genuine victim then there's nothing to be scared about, but for a rape victim it's not easy to know that you will definitely be believed and the thought of not being believed is a scary thing.
really? no convincing evidence she lied on court while under oath which resulted in someone being jailed for 3 years, why she she not be tried for perjury which carries a custodial sentence
After going through the trauma of being raped, the thought of not being believed and of being labelled a liar is not just scary it's terrifying. Women like the one in this story make it a lot harder for genuine rape victims to feel able to come forward about their attack AND to get their rapist convicted if they do come forward.
It took my wife 20 years to tell me about what she went through with a previous partner. A mixture of shame and fear of not being believed meant she had never felt able to tell anyone before that.
Think that through. If there wasn't the mob ready to attack those who report rape and the reluctance to believe them then would a alleged victim feel her case needed bolstering by acting extra tearful? Besides which that is not actually a crime. It throws doubt on her evidence but is not actually perjury nor is it proof she lied. Being over dramatic is not lying any more than turning up to court in a suit and neat hair is when you normally are scruffy. It's meant to change the impression you make but it isn't lying.
Those that want to label all rape victims liars are going to do it anyway. She's not responsible for that (even if she lied) - they are. Just like a black person who mugs someone isn't responsible for the racist who then goes on to claim black people are criminals.
Such people, if they exist, are surely only the other side of the coin of those who insist that every man accused of rape must automatically be guilty.
This presumption of guilt often extends even to those who have been tried and acquitted!
The court heard that the woman, who cannot be identified for legal reasons, had asked one witness before the trial...
Witness?
To a rape that didn't happen?
Sounds like there's a bit more afoot here.
Couple of girls conspired to stitch up the guy and now they've fallen out one of them is telling tales, perhaps?
This "girl" and her friends should be done immediately for perverting the course of justice . They have driven a coach and horses through all rape victims pursuing justice and when a juror reads this will have "beyond a reasonable doubt ringing in their ears". This is more in cases where the defence is that consent was given and its one version of events against the other without witnesses.
I feel sorry for the guy in this case who is the real victim
There have been many cases in recent times that demonstrate that UK law is not all about Justice.
Cover-up seem to be more acceptable of late, with revelations that an innocent woman shot by the police and the facts being withheld for 29yrs .
As for the second part, I'm not talking about people who have an agenda and automatically label all rape victims as liars. While she isn't solely responsible for people not believing rape victims, every time one of these made-up rape allegations stories comes out it does (sometimes subconsciously) chip away at some people's view of alleged rape victims.
Only if they have already bought into the myth of large numbers of women falsifying rape. To other people it seems as daft as using the case of the odd person committing an outrageous insurance fraud to believing most claimants are lying scum.
Someone has to already harbour a bias to suspicion of the rape victims for these cases to be able to reinforce that, otherwise they would just chalk it up to "people lie" not specify accusers of rape are prone to lie.
After all when someone lies in an ABh or Gbh crime do loads of people come on and start on about them all being liars. Them making all victims of violence look bad. It will make them less likely to believe the next person who claims they are attacked by a yob etc....
Only if they have already bought into the myth of large numbers of women falsifying rape. To other people it seems as daft as using the case of the odd person committing an outrageous insurance fraud to believing most claimants are lying scum.
Someone has to already harbour a bias to suspicion of the rape victims for these cases to be able to reinforce that, otherwise they would just chalk it up to "people lie" not specify accusers of rape are prone to lie.
After all when someone lies in an ABh or Gbh crime do loads of people come on and start on about them all being liars. Them making all victims of violence look bad. It will make them less likely to believe the next person who claims they are attacked by a yob etc....
Do what, -- what myth do you think most people have bought into that suggest women who claim rape are liars, the greatest majority of people---the public will/do believe and are sympathetic from the outset to stories of rape and abuse.
What's daft is you thinking that people think this way.
" Someone has to already harbour a bias to suspicion of the rape victims for these cases to be able to reinforce that",
What nonsense and what an insult to people's intelligence reading that, bias indeed!
If there is any bias the shoe is firmly on the other foot and against alleged offenders---he/she must have done it---no smoke with out fire and the rest of it.
What! jeez!,---- " After all when someone lies in an ABh or Gbh crime do loads of people come on and start on about them all being liars".
They are entirely different crimes with entirely different outcomes and motives for lying.
I accept victims of such crime may be traumatised for life but that's a rare thing, most recover and put it down to b*stards and bad luck.
But rape and abuse victims can't do that, most live it everyday for their lives, as do the victims of false rape/abuse allegations.
Are you asking/suggesting what's a lie or two or exaggerations in cases of abuse and rape?----well there is a man free today that's best able to answer that question.
"Harbour a suspicious bias against those that claim rape" ---yeah, right.
After going through the trauma of being raped, the thought of not being believed and of being labelled a liar is not just scary it's terrifying. Women like the one in this story make it a lot harder for genuine rape victims to feel able to come forward about their attack AND to get their rapist convicted if they do come forward.
The point i was trying to make when i wrote that was if innocent of any wrong doing and are open and honest in the accusations levelled at the perpetrator, the only 'scare' as such would be more from nervousness.....not because you aren't telling the truth, because you are, but more due to the totally unfamiliar surroundings and procedures.
I can't speak as a rape victim as i've never been there, but i have stood in a Law Court being harrangued by a barrage of intimidating questioning by a Prosecuting counsel. It wasn't nice or pleasant. Was i nervous? I was practically crapping myself. Was i scared? Absolutely not......because i knew he (prosecution) was attempting to discredit me and make me appear the guilty party. But i had told the truth 100% so knew as hard as they may try, there was no way they could pick any holes in what i'd told the Court.
You are right about this woman and i'd go a step further by saying those attempting to justify or excuse this kind of heinous conduct are doing women in general (not only rape victims) a massive injustice by bringing their credibility into serious doubt.
This man lost three years of his life based on a pack of lies. He will have seen his life, his job, his future, his family, his reputation ripped to shreds......destroyed in a flash. That's an extremely heavy penalty. Why she chose to lie we have no idea, but it's not the first time it's happened and it certainly won't be the last.
I hope he sues and gets a huge payout. Not that it would be of any compensation to him after loosing these years of his life.
Would he not only be able to sue her?
I'm not sure how the police or CPS would be liable, The jury obviously thought there was empugh evidence to convict. it's their duty to take victims versions at face value unless there's evidence to show otherwise. But they cant start asking victims if they're lying before they start an investigation.
I'm not sure how the police or CPS would be liable, The jury obviously thought there was empugh evidence to convict. it's their duty to take victims versions at face value unless there's evidence to show otherwise. But they cant start asking victims if they're lying before they start an investigation.
Didn't they ask the alleged victim whether she was lying before she gave evidence at trial?
Didn't they ask the alleged victim whether she was lying before she gave evidence at trial?
Why should they?
If you report a crime the police investigate, it's taken on face value. They aren't allowed to accuse you of lying unless they uncover evidence during the investigation to support you were.
They might ask question like "Now you're sure that's what happened, is there anything else you want to add" but that's it. If the "victim states her version is correct then they'll pass it to the CPS. It isn't one cops decision. The decision to forward for prosecution would be reviewed by a senior officer and then the prosecutors office would decide to proceed on the evidence. She must have been very convincing.
The point i was trying to make when i wrote that was if innocent of any wrong doing and are open and honest in the accusations levelled at the perpetrator, the only 'scare' as such would be more from nervousness.....not because you aren't telling the truth, because you are, but more due to the totally unfamiliar surroundings and procedures.
I can't speak as a rape victim as i've never been there, but i have stood in a Law Court being harrangued by a barrage of intimidating questioning by a Prosecuting counsel. It wasn't nice or pleasant. Was i nervous? I was practically crapping myself. Was i scared? Absolutely not......because i knew he (prosecution) was attempting to discredit me and make me appear the guilty party. But i had told the truth 100% so knew as hard as they may try, there was no way they could pick any holes in what i'd told the Court.
You are right about this woman and i'd go a step further by saying those attempting to justify or excuse this kind of heinous conduct are doing women in general (not only rape victims) a massive injustice by bringing their credibility into serious doubt.
This man lost three years of his life based on a pack of lies. He will have seen his life, his job, his future, his family, his reputation ripped to shreds......destroyed in a flash. That's an extremely heavy penalty. Why she chose to lie we have no idea, but it's not the first time it's happened and it certainly won't be the last.
It has to be stopped.
How do you stop people lying though? Turn it on it's head, how many people have got off with serious crimes because they and/or their friends lied. That cant be stopped either.You cant legislate for people's deviousness.
If you report a crime the police investigate, it's taken on face value. They aren't allowed to accuse you of lying unless they uncover evidence during the investigation to support you were.
They might ask question like "Now you're sure that's what happened, is there anything else you want to add" but that's it. If the "victim states her version is correct then they'll pass it to the CPS. It isn't one cops decision. The decision to forward for prosecution would be reviewed by a senior officer and then the prosecutors office would decide to proceed on the evidence. She must have been very convincing.
So at no stage during the trial do the witnesses have to swear that they're telling the truth? They can just send the defendant down no questions asked?
So at no stage during the trial do the witnesses have to swear that they're telling the truth? They can just send the defendant down no questions asked?
Of course they swear they're telling the truth and both sides get to ask questions. For some that oath means nothing and they will lie. It's the jury/judge's job to decide based on the evidence and balance of probabilities whether they are or not.
How do you stop people lying though? Turn it on it's head, how many people have got off with serious crimes because they and/or their friends lied. That cant be stopped either.You cant legislate for people's deviousness.
They must face very severe penalties.
This woman should have been taken to the dock, given the maximum sentence possible, and publicly named and shamed....with photograph.
I'm interested to understand why this woman can't be identified?
I hope we are going to be told who she is. It is so unfair that the man's name is splashed all over the media; there will always be people who will say 'there is no smoke without fire'.
I would imagine that if she's arrested and charged with a crime then she'll be named just like anyone else would be. The only reason I can see that some people want her named before is to aim abuse at her.
I would imagine that if she's arrested and charged with a crime then she'll be named just like anyone else would be. The only reason I can see that some people want her named before is to aim abuse at her.
Really?!
Do you really not see that most men would wish to avoid her (or take precautions if they cannot do so), and do you understand why?
Comments
So do I and it was very suspect about Johnathan King as well.
Think that through. If there wasn't the mob ready to attack those who report rape and the reluctance to believe them then would a alleged victim feel her case needed bolstering by acting extra tearful? Besides which that is not actually a crime. It throws doubt on her evidence but is not actually perjury nor is it proof she lied. Being over dramatic is not lying any more than turning up to court in a suit and neat hair is when you normally are scruffy. It's meant to change the impression you make but it isn't lying.
Those that want to label all rape victims liars are going to do it anyway. She's not responsible for that (even if she lied) - they are. Just like a black person who mugs someone isn't responsible for the racist who then goes on to claim black people are criminals.
really? no convincing evidence she lied on court while under oath which resulted in someone being jailed for 3 years, why she she not be tried for perjury which carries a custodial sentence
BIB - Except that's not all she's alleged to have done, according to the link in the OP she out-and-out lied.
It will be interesting to see if she's charged and if so what the outcome of that is, just like anyone accused of any crime she is innocent until proven guilty.
In the case of genuine victims who try to find the best way to act in order to be believed and get their attacker convicted then I totally agree with the first part of your post.
As for the second part, I'm not talking about people who have an agenda and automatically label all rape victims as liars. While she isn't solely responsible for people not believing rape victims, every time one of these made-up rape allegations stories comes out it does (sometimes subconsciously) chip away at some people's view of alleged rape victims.
And even then the main thing I was talking about was a rape victims perception of whether they'll be believed or not, and how when you're already feeling totally broken down stories like this don't help with finding the confidence to come forward.
It's easy for the poster I quoted to say that if you're a genuine victim then there's nothing to be scared about, but for a rape victim it's not easy to know that you will definitely be believed and the thought of not being believed is a scary thing.
Read my post again old boy, I agree with you.
It took my wife 20 years to tell me about what she went through with a previous partner. A mixture of shame and fear of not being believed meant she had never felt able to tell anyone before that.
This presumption of guilt often extends even to those who have been tried and acquitted!
Witness?
To a rape that didn't happen?
Sounds like there's a bit more afoot here.
Couple of girls conspired to stitch up the guy and now they've fallen out one of them is telling tales, perhaps?
I feel sorry for the guy in this case who is the real victim
Cover-up seem to be more acceptable of late, with revelations that an innocent woman shot by the police and the facts being withheld for 29yrs
my apologies, funny how missing one word changes the context of the post, il read more thoroughly next time
Only if they have already bought into the myth of large numbers of women falsifying rape. To other people it seems as daft as using the case of the odd person committing an outrageous insurance fraud to believing most claimants are lying scum.
Someone has to already harbour a bias to suspicion of the rape victims for these cases to be able to reinforce that, otherwise they would just chalk it up to "people lie" not specify accusers of rape are prone to lie.
After all when someone lies in an ABh or Gbh crime do loads of people come on and start on about them all being liars. Them making all victims of violence look bad. It will make them less likely to believe the next person who claims they are attacked by a yob etc....
What's daft is you thinking that people think this way.
" Someone has to already harbour a bias to suspicion of the rape victims for these cases to be able to reinforce that",
What nonsense and what an insult to people's intelligence reading that, bias indeed!
If there is any bias the shoe is firmly on the other foot and against alleged offenders---he/she must have done it---no smoke with out fire and the rest of it.
What! jeez!,---- " After all when someone lies in an ABh or Gbh crime do loads of people come on and start on about them all being liars".
They are entirely different crimes with entirely different outcomes and motives for lying.
I accept victims of such crime may be traumatised for life but that's a rare thing, most recover and put it down to b*stards and bad luck.
But rape and abuse victims can't do that, most live it everyday for their lives, as do the victims of false rape/abuse allegations.
Are you asking/suggesting what's a lie or two or exaggerations in cases of abuse and rape?----well there is a man free today that's best able to answer that question.
"Harbour a suspicious bias against those that claim rape" ---yeah, right.
I can't speak as a rape victim as i've never been there, but i have stood in a Law Court being harrangued by a barrage of intimidating questioning by a Prosecuting counsel. It wasn't nice or pleasant. Was i nervous? I was practically crapping myself. Was i scared? Absolutely not......because i knew he (prosecution) was attempting to discredit me and make me appear the guilty party. But i had told the truth 100% so knew as hard as they may try, there was no way they could pick any holes in what i'd told the Court.
You are right about this woman and i'd go a step further by saying those attempting to justify or excuse this kind of heinous conduct are doing women in general (not only rape victims) a massive injustice by bringing their credibility into serious doubt.
This man lost three years of his life based on a pack of lies. He will have seen his life, his job, his future, his family, his reputation ripped to shreds......destroyed in a flash. That's an extremely heavy penalty. Why she chose to lie we have no idea, but it's not the first time it's happened and it certainly won't be the last.
It has to be stopped.
Would he not only be able to sue her?
I'm not sure how the police or CPS would be liable, The jury obviously thought there was empugh evidence to convict. it's their duty to take victims versions at face value unless there's evidence to show otherwise. But they cant start asking victims if they're lying before they start an investigation.
Why should they?
If you report a crime the police investigate, it's taken on face value. They aren't allowed to accuse you of lying unless they uncover evidence during the investigation to support you were.
They might ask question like "Now you're sure that's what happened, is there anything else you want to add" but that's it. If the "victim states her version is correct then they'll pass it to the CPS. It isn't one cops decision. The decision to forward for prosecution would be reviewed by a senior officer and then the prosecutors office would decide to proceed on the evidence. She must have been very convincing.
How do you stop people lying though? Turn it on it's head, how many people have got off with serious crimes because they and/or their friends lied. That cant be stopped either.You cant legislate for people's deviousness.
Of course they swear they're telling the truth and both sides get to ask questions. For some that oath means nothing and they will lie. It's the jury/judge's job to decide based on the evidence and balance of probabilities whether they are or not.
This woman should have been taken to the dock, given the maximum sentence possible, and publicly named and shamed....with photograph.
Do you really not see that most men would wish to avoid her (or take precautions if they cannot do so), and do you understand why?