Any change in % always changes things, why would a germen made car change how people drive, to say how someone with a french or british car drives. % always are a factor in any research. Were these cars drove by germen people or uk people, as people drive in differant styles all over world
You`re into the realms of psychiatry here. Why do certain types of people buy certain types of car ? I don`t know the answer, I just know the result.
The cars were nearly all British registered, driven by British drivers
The 'if just one changes their ways' thing is bollocks to start with, even if your posts were consistently rational and well thought out instead of made up nonsense (that actually put off those who ought to be supporting your view...).
I didn`t think this was the entertainment section ! ? ! I can`t go on Overclockers because I was banned for not towing the party line. The only Forum I`ve ever been banned from, wazzocks ! It really was just censorship, if they don`t want people to say things they disagree with then they shouldn`t run a forum, simple, but there we go, hypocrites are all the same.
You are correct that most of those that read posts about road safety will fall it two camps. You`re either preaching to the converted or to those who will never be converted.
The great majority of those who actually drive dangerously will refuse to believe they do so, no amount of objective reasoning will change their minds. Furthermore they`re very vociferous, they`ll come on Forums arguing till they`re blue in the face that black is white, they also get personal very quickly, fortunately I don`t give a toss. They can say what they want it`s water off a Duck`s back to me and if it gets too personal I just don`t read it.
On the other hand those who drive safely tend to keep quiet and get on with it.
One lives in hope. If just one driver takes a little it more care and avoids injuring or even killing someone, then it`s worth it.
And your objective argument is ?
I don`t make up anything, that`s probably the most insulting thing anyone has said about me on this thread, but I know it isn`t true so I`ll rise above it anyway.
I have a scientific objective outlook on life. Much of what we see can be proved or explained by research, I do it all the time for my work, it`s actually very influential.
I spend a lot of time in the U.S., over there it is perfectly legal to overtake on the inside, in the right hand lane, (remembering that they drive on the right there.)
If I'm doing 61 - 65 mph in the right lane, and the speed limit is 60, and I encounter a car/truck in the centre lane, I'll just stay in the right hand lane and pass them on their right.
The same in the U.K., but in the left hand lane, just steadily pass them, keeping a wary eye on them in case they decide to switch back to the left..
If you don't wish to be overtaken on the inside, the answer is simple, stay in the inside lane until you meet someone going slower than you, then overtake them before moving back to the inside left hand lane.
If anyone overtakes you then, it will be on your right that they'll pass you, unless they are dumb enough to use the hard shoulder to do it.
I'll happily admit to being in the camp that *ocassionally* passes people on the nearside land on motorways.
I use to follow the edict that passing on the left is A Bad Thing, and would go through the long process of MSM to lane two, then again to lane three, then pass, then MSM back across the two lanes again to get to be a hundred yards further ahead than when I started.
Then I eventually figured that passing on the nearside is perfectly common in other countries, that I have a hard-shoulder of margin to play with if the daydreamer in lane two suddenly decides to veer over without looking over their shoulder, and that it really isn't worth getting stressed over.
In answer to the OPs question, I think *subjectively* that the worst drivers are the ones who cause most accidents. I don't know what style of driving that constitutes. I would suggest that probably people who concern themselves with law and protocol at the expense of assessing whether they are driving in a safe envelope for the road conditions around them are the worst drivers.
even if your posts were consistently rational and well thought out instead of made up nonsense (that actually put off those who ought to be supporting your view...).
My curiosity is overwhelming me here, what exactly do you think I`ve "made up" ?
What ! ! ! I think there`s some winding up going on here, the problem is that winding up doesn`t really work well on a forum, can`t see the facial expressions and the timing of the delivery. However I`ll play along. Let`s examine what you`re saying here. Every time any driver takes their foot off the throttle they should brake just in case some dozy wazzock behind then doesn`t realise they may be slowing down, and when I say say slowing down, I mean, by definition, very slowly if you`re just relying on wind drag to slow you.
Basically, it`s quite simple, the more often you brake on a motorway, in fact on any road, the worse driver you are, certainly the least efficient.
The fact that you resort to hyperbole rather than acknowledging that there are situations where it's preferable to apply your brakes rather than just coasting down to a lower speed demonstrates a certain amount of ignorance and/or arrogance.
Taxi drivers drive like total idiots and think they can break the law and speed and they pull out on people and cut you up.
BMW drivers are smug gits who never give way to anyone and push in because they think the world revolves around them and their car which seems to be substitute for having a small penis. Usually driven by business reps who have a far too high opinion of themselves and no girlfriend.
Audi drivers are like BMW drivers only they tend to be older or retired. Usually driven by ex middle management types or retired small business owners. They drive a little more considerably than BMW drivers but don't be fooled that one will flash you out at a junction because they're far too important than to give way to anyone. They are eaten up with bitterness at the fact that what they really wish they were driving was a Mercedes.
4x4 drivers think they own the roads and use their gas guzzling, environmentally unfriendly cars like battering rams pushing in and pushing other road users to one side and parking wherever they like. They love to hog the entire road and never give way. I've got a bigger car than you so I'm coming through whether it's my right of way or not as they wander around town ferrying about their car load of spoiled middle class brats. They will happily park it on double yellow lines or in a disabled bay at the supermarket because they think that having a big fat car full of kids gives them a sense of superiority and the right to priority parking whether they are entitled to park it there or not. These people really are the bullies of the road.
White van driver (3 moron lads in a transit) driving around like total cocks with their bacon butties and a copy of the daily Sport on the dashboard. They think it's funny to cut you up and pull out on you and drive like a dick cos its only some crappy battered old van that doesn't belong to them anyway. They love to make rude sexist gestures at women who happen to be walking past.
Tractors. These people will drive for ages holding up miles of traffic behind them and will not pull over for anything. Because they own some land they think they have the right to make everyone late and hold up all the traffic while he travels between one farm and another totally oblivious of the anger and the 3 mile tailback he's causing behind him.
Boy racers. Drives dangerously. A potential fatality to himself and other road users as well as pedestrians. A first class idiot. Usually seen driving round retail parks looking for orange po faced women with a passion for fast crappy cars and shit music. It's always some 2 door 1.1 litre piece of crap on mummy's insurance with a dodgy paint job and a soil pipe for an exhaust. He is under the delusion that everyone in a half mile vacinity actually wants to hear his shite taste in drum and bass music that's blasting out of his boot as he drives past sounding like he's got a broken exhaust pipe. He thinks he's the height of coolness. Everyone else thinks he's a first class knob.
You don`t think I did that research whilst I was actually driving did you ! ? !
As for the actual research I think it`s fabulously elegant, even though I do say so myself.
Which you've based wholly on personal opinion, so by definition isn't objective.
Those aren`t things (i.e. "facts") that I`ve made up, they`re my personal opinion. I thought, when you said I`d "made it up" you were talking about a fact. A fact, would be that it`s perfectly possible to drive from Scotch Corner to Junc 36 on the M1 without braking if you use sufficient concentration and anticipation. I managed it (albeit on a Saturday) and I don`t pretend to be a perfect driver, so it really can`t be that difficult. Thus proving that drivers braking (when nobody has pulled out on them) must be using very little concentration at all, which is particularly worrying if they`re tanking down the outside lane at 90mph plus
The fact that you resort to hyperbole rather than acknowledging that there are situations where it's preferable to apply your brakes rather than just coasting down to a lower speed demonstrates a certain amount of ignorance and/or arrogance.
Sorry, when did I ever say you shouldn`t use your brake ? That would be a ridiculous thing to say, or even think. What I did say is that better drivers use their brakes less because they use anticipation and concentration. A classic example would be the guy who races away from the lights when you can see the next light a few hundred yards ahead has just changed to red.
I actually think you could come up with a formula to give a good idea of how skilled (or not) a driver really is :
BMW drivers are smug gits who never give way to anyone and push in because they think the world revolves around them and their car which seems to be substitute for having a small penis. Usually driven by business reps who have a far too high opinion of themselves and no girlfriend.
Audi drivers are like BMW drivers only they tend to be older or retired. Usually driven by ex middle management types or retired small business owners. They drive a little more considerably than BMW drivers but don't be fooled that one will flash you out at a junction because they're far too important than to give way to anyone. They are eaten up with bitterness at the fact that what they really wish they were driving was a Mercedes.
I agree with you (both German cars you see....) but not all BMW/Audi drivers are wazzocks, just a higher proportion than drivers of other cars.
Classic tale of a cretin BMW driver (and no I`m not making it up....) Just last year I was driving out of Rye towards Camber. I got to the roundabout on the outskirts and this Black BMW overtook me by going the wrong way round the island ! Just to clarify that, he drove round the roundabout anti clockwise so he could get past me. There`s no excuse for that under any circumstances, but I wasn`t driving a tractor at 15mph I`d been driving perfectly normally at the speed limit......
Sorry, when did I ever say you shouldn`t use your brake ? That would be a ridiculous thing to say, or even think. What I did say is that better drivers use their brakes less because they use anticipation and concentration. A classic example would be the guy who races away from the lights when you can see the next light a few hundred yards ahead has just changed to red.
I actually think you could come up with a formula to give a good idea of how skilled (or not) a driver really is :
mm of brake pad wear per 1000m driven ?
In your original response (post #154), you asserted that the only reason a person might brake on the motorway is if they've misjudged something.
I simply pointed out that this was a faulty assumption and that people will often choose to brake deliberately rather than coast in order to alert following vehicles of the reduction in traffic speed.
If you're now saying you accept this, fair enough. Course, it begs the question of why you choose to keep responding in an apparent attempt to refute the assertion.
Sometimes it's better, and it prevents you from looking dumb, if you just say "Okay, I'll grant you that there are some situations where you're right" and leave it at that.
Frankly, I'd say that one of the best ways to quantify the risk associated with different vehicles/drivers is insurance premiums.
I'm currently paying £354 fully comp' for my BMW 330D. How about you?
Thing is, if BMW drivers were a greater risk on the road, you'd think my premiums would be substantially higher.
In your original response (post #154), you asserted that the only reason a person might brake on the motorway is if they've misjudged something.
I simply pointed out that this was a faulty assumption and that people will often choose to brake deliberately rather than coast in order to alert following vehicles of the reduction in traffic speed.
If you're now saying you accept this, fair enough. Course, it begs the question of why you choose to keep responding in an apparent attempt to refute the assertion.
Sometimes it's better, and it prevents you from looking dumb, if you just say "Okay, I'll grant you that there are some situations where you're right" and leave it at that.
I think we`re suffering from a breakdown in communication here. I said it`s only poor driving to brake on a motorway unless someone pulls out on you.
By definition, if you just take your foot off the throttle you don`t need to slow down quickly, if you did you`d brake. So, if you are only slowing down slowly why would you need to warn anyone behind you ? If you did then cars would be wired so their brake lights came on when the throttle was closed, surely ? This is all a bit irrelevant anyway because most of those 90mph wallahs you see who brake when they`ve misjudged the cars speed in front (or, worse, are trying to intimidate them out of the way) haven`t actually got anyone that close to them behind. The wazzock in the opener certainly didn`t have.
Not at all, it was very interesting, as is most research. Quite apart from anything, what else are you going to do whilst getting bored in a car ? Most people can`t even read because it makes them feel sick in a car. Interesting how it doesn't do so on a train, I wonder why. Oh sorry, that`s me being sad (for being curious)......
So you state that in your opinion that's an objective way to decide who's a bad driver and you don't see why that's utterly contradictory in nature (or, to use the vanacular "made up")?
You use the word objective in a sentence, by definition you're implying the statment to be factual. As I said earlier, you really need to learn what 'objective' means if you're going to use it all the time.
Um... what? One might alternatively say that actively trying to avoid using one of the main control features of a vehicle is diverting focus away from where it might more usefully be spent. Personal opinion that braking is bad. So extrapolating a 'fact' to create more nonsense.
Sorry, I`d have thought the number one priority on a motorway is to know where all the other vehicles are and how fast they`re going relative to yourself. How can that be diverting focus from where it might usefully be spent ? ! ?
Not at all, it was very interesting, as is most research. Quite apart from anything, what else are you going to do whilst getting bored in a car ? Most people can`t even read because it makes them feel sick in a car. Interesting how it doesn't do so on a train, I wonder why. Oh sorry, that`s me being sad (for being curious)......
You might call it research but is far from real research, so is really meaningless
I fear I may have got rather side tracked on this braking on the motorway thing. So, to clarify my position, just because you brake on the motorway (even if nobody has pulled out on you) it doesn`t mean you`re a bad driver, it just means you`ve made a minor misjudgement or you weren`t concentrating 100%. My wife brakes far more than I ever do on the motorway, in fact on all roads, but she is not a bad driver, as defined by the fact she`s never had a serious accident (one where someone could potentially get killed or seriously injured). At the end of the day that`s what counts.
The only reason I mentioned the braking for no reason thing is because the pillock in the opener did so and it proves that the commonly repeated mantra (by drivers who speed) that they`re actually safer drivers because they`re concentrating more is absolute crap. Let`s face it, when these 90mph wallahs brake for no reason and they`re "concentrating at 10 tenths" (apparently) I`d hate to see them when they`re not.....
Comments
You`re into the realms of psychiatry here. Why do certain types of people buy certain types of car ? I don`t know the answer, I just know the result.
The cars were nearly all British registered, driven by British drivers
And your objective argument is ?
I don`t make up anything, that`s probably the most insulting thing anyone has said about me on this thread, but I know it isn`t true so I`ll rise above it anyway.
I have a scientific objective outlook on life. Much of what we see can be proved or explained by research, I do it all the time for my work, it`s actually very influential.
+1 for Ethel"s niece. She cut me up on the roundabout exiting the M3 at jct 5. Curses to you :shakesfistsmilie
Now that is one fact you would not know, because the car is British registered, does not mean its a being driven by British driver
I'll happily admit to being in the camp that *ocassionally* passes people on the nearside land on motorways.
I use to follow the edict that passing on the left is A Bad Thing, and would go through the long process of MSM to lane two, then again to lane three, then pass, then MSM back across the two lanes again to get to be a hundred yards further ahead than when I started.
Then I eventually figured that passing on the nearside is perfectly common in other countries, that I have a hard-shoulder of margin to play with if the daydreamer in lane two suddenly decides to veer over without looking over their shoulder, and that it really isn't worth getting stressed over.
In answer to the OPs question, I think *subjectively* that the worst drivers are the ones who cause most accidents. I don't know what style of driving that constitutes. I would suggest that probably people who concern themselves with law and protocol at the expense of assessing whether they are driving in a safe envelope for the road conditions around them are the worst drivers.
Concentrate on your driving, and try to improve.
Quite correct, they are all driving their nans Motability Focus or Astra..
My curiosity is overwhelming me here, what exactly do you think I`ve "made up" ?
The fact that you resort to hyperbole rather than acknowledging that there are situations where it's preferable to apply your brakes rather than just coasting down to a lower speed demonstrates a certain amount of ignorance and/or arrogance.
BMW drivers are smug gits who never give way to anyone and push in because they think the world revolves around them and their car which seems to be substitute for having a small penis. Usually driven by business reps who have a far too high opinion of themselves and no girlfriend.
Audi drivers are like BMW drivers only they tend to be older or retired. Usually driven by ex middle management types or retired small business owners. They drive a little more considerably than BMW drivers but don't be fooled that one will flash you out at a junction because they're far too important than to give way to anyone. They are eaten up with bitterness at the fact that what they really wish they were driving was a Mercedes.
4x4 drivers think they own the roads and use their gas guzzling, environmentally unfriendly cars like battering rams pushing in and pushing other road users to one side and parking wherever they like. They love to hog the entire road and never give way. I've got a bigger car than you so I'm coming through whether it's my right of way or not as they wander around town ferrying about their car load of spoiled middle class brats. They will happily park it on double yellow lines or in a disabled bay at the supermarket because they think that having a big fat car full of kids gives them a sense of superiority and the right to priority parking whether they are entitled to park it there or not. These people really are the bullies of the road.
White van driver (3 moron lads in a transit) driving around like total cocks with their bacon butties and a copy of the daily Sport on the dashboard. They think it's funny to cut you up and pull out on you and drive like a dick cos its only some crappy battered old van that doesn't belong to them anyway. They love to make rude sexist gestures at women who happen to be walking past.
Tractors. These people will drive for ages holding up miles of traffic behind them and will not pull over for anything. Because they own some land they think they have the right to make everyone late and hold up all the traffic while he travels between one farm and another totally oblivious of the anger and the 3 mile tailback he's causing behind him.
Boy racers. Drives dangerously. A potential fatality to himself and other road users as well as pedestrians. A first class idiot. Usually seen driving round retail parks looking for orange po faced women with a passion for fast crappy cars and shit music. It's always some 2 door 1.1 litre piece of crap on mummy's insurance with a dodgy paint job and a soil pipe for an exhaust. He is under the delusion that everyone in a half mile vacinity actually wants to hear his shite taste in drum and bass music that's blasting out of his boot as he drives past sounding like he's got a broken exhaust pipe. He thinks he's the height of coolness. Everyone else thinks he's a first class knob.
You don`t think I did that research whilst I was actually driving did you ! ? !
As for the actual research I think it`s fabulously elegant, even though I do say so myself.
Those aren`t things (i.e. "facts") that I`ve made up, they`re my personal opinion. I thought, when you said I`d "made it up" you were talking about a fact. A fact, would be that it`s perfectly possible to drive from Scotch Corner to Junc 36 on the M1 without braking if you use sufficient concentration and anticipation. I managed it (albeit on a Saturday) and I don`t pretend to be a perfect driver, so it really can`t be that difficult. Thus proving that drivers braking (when nobody has pulled out on them) must be using very little concentration at all, which is particularly worrying if they`re tanking down the outside lane at 90mph plus
Sorry, when did I ever say you shouldn`t use your brake ? That would be a ridiculous thing to say, or even think. What I did say is that better drivers use their brakes less because they use anticipation and concentration. A classic example would be the guy who races away from the lights when you can see the next light a few hundred yards ahead has just changed to red.
I actually think you could come up with a formula to give a good idea of how skilled (or not) a driver really is :
mm of brake pad wear per 1000m driven ?
I agree with you (both German cars you see....) but not all BMW/Audi drivers are wazzocks, just a higher proportion than drivers of other cars.
Classic tale of a cretin BMW driver (and no I`m not making it up....) Just last year I was driving out of Rye towards Camber. I got to the roundabout on the outskirts and this Black BMW overtook me by going the wrong way round the island ! Just to clarify that, he drove round the roundabout anti clockwise so he could get past me. There`s no excuse for that under any circumstances, but I wasn`t driving a tractor at 15mph I`d been driving perfectly normally at the speed limit......
In your original response (post #154), you asserted that the only reason a person might brake on the motorway is if they've misjudged something.
I simply pointed out that this was a faulty assumption and that people will often choose to brake deliberately rather than coast in order to alert following vehicles of the reduction in traffic speed.
If you're now saying you accept this, fair enough. Course, it begs the question of why you choose to keep responding in an apparent attempt to refute the assertion.
Sometimes it's better, and it prevents you from looking dumb, if you just say "Okay, I'll grant you that there are some situations where you're right" and leave it at that.
Frankly, I'd say that one of the best ways to quantify the risk associated with different vehicles/drivers is insurance premiums.
I'm currently paying £354 fully comp' for my BMW 330D. How about you?
Thing is, if BMW drivers were a greater risk on the road, you'd think my premiums would be substantially higher.
Wow. That is thoroughly sad.
I think we`re suffering from a breakdown in communication here. I said it`s only poor driving to brake on a motorway unless someone pulls out on you.
By definition, if you just take your foot off the throttle you don`t need to slow down quickly, if you did you`d brake. So, if you are only slowing down slowly why would you need to warn anyone behind you ? If you did then cars would be wired so their brake lights came on when the throttle was closed, surely ? This is all a bit irrelevant anyway because most of those 90mph wallahs you see who brake when they`ve misjudged the cars speed in front (or, worse, are trying to intimidate them out of the way) haven`t actually got anyone that close to them behind. The wazzock in the opener certainly didn`t have.
Not at all, it was very interesting, as is most research. Quite apart from anything, what else are you going to do whilst getting bored in a car ? Most people can`t even read because it makes them feel sick in a car. Interesting how it doesn't do so on a train, I wonder why. Oh sorry, that`s me being sad (for being curious)......
Sorry, I`d have thought the number one priority on a motorway is to know where all the other vehicles are and how fast they`re going relative to yourself. How can that be diverting focus from where it might usefully be spent ? ! ?
You might call it research but is far from real research, so is really meaningless
The only reason I mentioned the braking for no reason thing is because the pillock in the opener did so and it proves that the commonly repeated mantra (by drivers who speed) that they`re actually safer drivers because they`re concentrating more is absolute crap. Let`s face it, when these 90mph wallahs brake for no reason and they`re "concentrating at 10 tenths" (apparently) I`d hate to see them when they`re not.....