10 and Rose Zygons

[Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 204
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So what do we reckon on Doc 10 and Rose initially being Shape-Shifted Zygons?
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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,753
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    I thought that could be the case too. I think we should kill Rose on sight- just to be sure:) hehe
  • jrmswfcjrmswfc Posts: 5,644
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    But wouldn't the Zygons take the form of Doctor 4, as he was the Doctor that they knew?

    Even if the encounter with Doctor 10 in the Sting of the Zygons book is considered to be canon, they still wouldn't know who Rose was.
  • ListentomeListentome Posts: 9,804
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    jrmswfc wrote: »
    But wouldn't the Zygons take the form of Doctor 4, as he was the Doctor that they knew?

    Even if the encounter with Doctor 10 in the Sting of the Zygons book is considered to be canon, they still wouldn't know who Rose was.

    Presumably the Zygons would know what the Doctor now looks like. Remember in The Power of Three, Doctor 11, Amy and Rory encountered the Zygons under the Savoy (even though we didn't see the actual event).
  • RorschachRorschach Posts: 10,818
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    I did inituially react with joy in suspecting that they would be Zygons rather than Rose & Fake 10. But then I remembered that the Zygons have to keep their targets alive in order to maintain the forms, so even if they start out as Zygons the real ones will be along eventually.

    (So they couldn't look like 4 unless they had 4 to hand...as I remember it)
  • johnnysaucepnjohnnysaucepn Posts: 6,775
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    Well, in the leaked pictures, we've seen
    Ten's TARDIS
    so it seems that unless they've also started duplicating them, it's the real deal.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 204
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    Well, in the leaked pictures, we've seen
    Ten's TARDIS
    so it seems that unless they've also started duplicating them, it's the real deal.

    Well I thought that, but then if they grabbed doctor 10 when he was with Rose, mimicked them, and stole the TARDIS then that could work?
  • CorwinCorwin Posts: 16,588
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    andy741 wrote: »
    Well I thought that, but then if they grabbed doctor 10 when he was with Rose, mimicked them, and stole the TARDIS then that could work?

    Rose may not even be with Doc #10 as it's speculated Doc#10 is from a post Waters of Mars point of his life.
  • AirboraeAirborae Posts: 2,644
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    Maybe its Doctor 11 and Clara who are the Zygon duplicates and Doctor 10 and Rose have to rescue them.
  • RorschachRorschach Posts: 10,818
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    Airborae wrote: »
    Maybe its Doctor 11 and Clara who are the Zygon duplicates and Doctor 10 and Rose have to rescue them.
    If they had 10 and Rose turn up to save the day because 11 and Clara weren't as good as them and couldn't handle it, there would be a bloody riot. :D
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 89
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    Corwin wrote: »
    Rose may not even be with Doc #10 as it's speculated Doc#10 is from a post Waters of Mars point of his life.

    A lot of people are saying rose may be a pre doctor 10 rose, but if that was the case would she not have recognised 10 when he regenerated from 9 .. Is that a bit too timey wimey for this time of an afternoon ....:confused:
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 90
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    Tardy wrote: »
    A lot of people are saying rose may be a pre doctor 10 rose, but if that was the case would she not have recognised 10 when he regenerated from 9 .. Is that a bit too timey wimey for this time of an afternoon ....:confused:

    Memory wipe... or they will forget.
  • saladfingers81saladfingers81 Posts: 11,301
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    I really hope that Doctor Ten is just Doctor Ten. No Zygon or Meta-Doc or Flesh avatars or holograms or silliness. Just the real deal.
  • CELT1987CELT1987 Posts: 12,346
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    Ariel23 wrote: »
    Memory wipe... or they will forget.
    There are no Time Lords around anymore to wipe the memories off the Doctor.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 90
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    CELT1987 wrote: »
    There are no Time Lords around anymore to wipe the memories off the Doctor.

    Yet the Fifth Doctor forgot his meeting with Ten in Time Crash and there were no Time Lords around for that ;) The Doctor only remembered that encounter when he was Ten.
  • sebbie3000sebbie3000 Posts: 5,188
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    Ariel23 wrote: »
    Yet the Fifth Doctor forgot his meeting with Ten in Time Crash and there were no Time Lords around for that ;) The Doctor only remembered that encounter when he was Ten.

    The fifth Doctor didn't remember, because it hadn't yet happened for him. The tenth remembered because it happened to him when he was the fifth.

    No memory wipe needed.
  • LeslieGruffordLeslieGrufford Posts: 352
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    10 can't meet 11 and retain the memories. In the TV movies 10 wasn't sure whether he was going to die permanently or regenerate, he told Wilfred this in the cafe. It seemed that he was leaning more on the side of believing his death would be permanent. "Even if I'm not killed, it feels like dying"... It has to be the clone or this would invalidate his plight in End of Time.

    Unless of course 10 and 11 don't share screen time and Tennant is appearing in a flashback which would be a let down!
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 204
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    See the one thing in my mind which makes this confusing until its explained is why wont 11 remember it?
  • jrmswfcjrmswfc Posts: 5,644
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    andy741 wrote: »
    See the one thing in my mind which makes this confusing until its explained is why wont 11 remember it?

    Maybe it's the "clone" 10, and not the original?
  • ThrombinThrombin Posts: 9,416
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    Wouldn't it be possible not to remember something if you are changing the course of events?

    Assuming that 10 would remember meeting 11 also assumes that this had always happened but what if the actions of 11 causes a new thing to happen changing 10's timeline as it occurs.

    It's like with the flying shark episode when the guy was remembering things that happened in the past as the Doctor did them in the past but the memories hadn't been there until the Doctor started changing his timeline.
  • C. SamuraiC. Samurai Posts: 362
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    If anything, I think the meeting with Eleven ends up justifying Ten's reluctance to regenerate in End of Time
  • LeslieGruffordLeslieGrufford Posts: 352
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    C. Samurai wrote: »
    If anything, I think the meeting with Eleven ends up justifying Ten's reluctance to regenerate in End of Time

    That would change pivotal scenes. If he knew he was going to regenerate it wouldn't have been so big an issue for him. Wasn't just End of Time either. Remember 10 visited Sarah Jane in her own show and that last shot of him hammered home the fact he truly believed he was never going to see her again! The prophecy felt final to him. No more Doctor.

    I also don't think 11 changing the timeline for 10 would work as memories changing on the spot. Surely there is an explanation that people who travel in the Tardis are protected from changes in timelines. Case in point when 10 changed a fixed point in time in Waters of Mars, it didn't alter his memories. He knew what he'd done!
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,175
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    :confused:god bttf iss easier than tthis to wworrk out aax
  • C. SamuraiC. Samurai Posts: 362
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    That would change pivotal scenes. If he knew he was going to regenerate it wouldn't have been so big an issue for him!

    But it was. Check the episode again, particular the bit where he's talking to Wilf in the cafe. He was perfectly aware he was going to regenerate, he just knew it would be the death of his current personality and he didnt want to lose it.
  • LeslieGruffordLeslieGrufford Posts: 352
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    C. Samurai wrote: »
    But it was. Check the episode again, particular the bit where he's talking to Wilf in the cafe. He was perfectly aware he was going to regenerate, he just knew it would be the death of his current personality and he didnt want to lose it.

    That's not true. Rewatch it. He says "I'm going to die!" Then he ponders the possibility of regeneration as "feeling like dying". But the scene definitely begins with him feeling his complete death could be imminent. It's a definite game over fear.
  • ea91ea91 Posts: 2,363
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    That would change pivotal scenes. If he knew he was going to regenerate it wouldn't have been so big an issue for him. Wasn't just End of Time either. Remember 10 visited Sarah Jane in her own show and that last shot of him hammered home the fact he truly believed he was never going to see her again! The prophecy felt final to him. No more Doctor.

    Time can be rewritten. The Doctor probably has a lot of memories of alternate timelines, such as his wedding to River Song. It can also be argued that during Eleven's farewell tour last series he truly thought he was going to die, yet he never gave River his screwdriver and sent her off to the Library (not on the show at least and I believe that is actually yet to come).
    Similarly to Amy and Rory jumping off the building in TATM after seeing old Rory, Ten could still put himself in danger despite seeing Eleven so it's not too much of a reassurance because again - time can be rewritten.
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