I'm going to empathise with parents that allow their children to be children whilst struggling to control them to some degree, yes. I don't really empathise with stuck up people who threaten to assault toddlers.
Want to avoid children? Go somewhere else and not family pubs. Those families have nowhere else to go, you do.
Clearly not, because these stories everyone goes on about I've never personally witnessed. Which either means I'm very lucky, or more likely I just don't really care.
Well that's just it. Most people do care, so it's not down to the majority needing to be more tolerant, to facilitate the minority.
I'm going to empathise with parents that allow their children to be children whilst struggling to control them to some degree, yes.
How about when the parents aren't making any effort to control them? I've seen children running up and down between tables and the parents are just leaving them to it. Is that perfectly acceptable to you?
How about when the parents aren't making any effort to control them? I've seen children running up and down between tables and the parents are just leaving them to it. Is that perfectly acceptable to you?
No, but I don't think I've ever witnessed that outside of a pub with a play area. Most parents will call them back.
I'm going to empathise with parents that allow their children to be children whilst struggling to control them to some degree, yes. I don't really empathise with stuck up people who threaten to assault toddlers.
Want to avoid children? Go somewhere else and not family pubs. Those families have nowhere else to go, you do.
And what about toddlers assualting other guests and/or staff?
If it does happen, which would be very rare, it wouldn't bother me. However I think more people are likely to exaggerate how bad the parents are, rather than the parents actually being bad.
Two things of note, number one; your argument is kind of a false equivalent. You cannot compare the occasional sound of children playing with being repeatedly poked I the arm. Number two; You claimed that you were fine hearing kids play in a playground, but not in a restaurant. Do you not realise one not being annoying, and the other being annoying, is a bit of a double standard. It also throws your poking in the arm analogy into the bin, as I don't think I would ever be okay with someone poking me in the arm, even in a certain environment.
What a load of absolute rubbish! So you're saying that recognising the difference between something happening in an appropriate place and an inappropriate place is having double standards? So by your argument because you're perfectly happy for kids to run around screaming in a restaurant then you'd also be happy for them to do that at a funeral service or a wedding ceremony? I doubt that.
A restaurant isn't an appropriate place for kids to run around screaming whereas, a playground is an ideal place for kids to run around screaming. In the same way that I'm perfectly happy for a bunch of men to shout and chant songs at a football ground but I wouldn't particularly want them all at my grans funeral chanting "Going down" as they lower the coffin.
Also, people aren't on about the occasional sound of children, they're on about children running around, screaming loudly and generally behaving in an inappropriate manner. OK, so if the prodding is a "false equivalent" (maybe I should have compared it to something completely relevant like poverty in Africa eh?) hows about something completely equivalent, an adult running around the restaurant, shouting, barging your chair out of the way and running into waiters. Exactly the same, except one is an adult and the other is a child. You'd be fine with that I take it.
If it does happen, which would be very rare, it wouldn't bother me. However I think more people are likely to exaggerate how bad the parents are, rather than the parents actually being bad.
It does happen unfortunately - probably quite rare as I think most parents are at least trying to be good parents.
If I see parents attempting to control their children then I will have sympathy. If they are not paying attention and letting them do what they want then I get irritated.
Most of these cases are family pubs in the daytime. You can go elsewhere, they can't.
'Family friendly' doesn't mean 'anything goes'. It usually means that a restaurant or pub has a children's menu, provides high chairs and baby changing facilities and has crayons and colouring books to keep children amused.
It does not mean that they are welcome to run riot around the place, annoy other customers, scream and roar and create tripping hazards for the staff.
Families have three choices in your scenario: they can control their children, they can stay at home, or they can let them annoy other customers. Unfortunately, too many parents choose the latter option.
What a load of absolute rubbish! So you're saying that recognising the difference between something happening in an appropriate place and an inappropriate place is having double standards? So by your argument because you're perfectly happy for kids to run around screaming in a restaurant then you'd also be happy for them to do that at a funeral service or a wedding ceremony? I doubt that.
A restaurant isn't an appropriate place for kids to run around screaming whereas, a playground is an ideal place for kids to run around screaming. In the same way that I'm perfectly happy for a bunch of men to shout and chant songs at a football ground but I wouldn't particularly want them all at my grans funeral chanting "Going down" as they lower the coffin.
Also, people aren't on about the occasional sound of children, they're on about children running around, screaming loudly and generally behaving in an inappropriate manner. OK, so if the prodding is a "false equivalent" (maybe I should have compared it to something completely relevant like poverty in Africa eh?) hows about something completely equivalent, an adult running around the restaurant, shouting, barging your chair out of the way and running into waiters. Exactly the same, except one is an adult and the other is a child. You'd be fine with that I take it.
The poverty in Africa thing was to try and display what a first world problem this is. Like complaining about a splinter to someone who has had their leg amputated.
I admit that there are appropriate and inappropriate places for children to be noisy sure, perhaps I should have been more specific. In a family restaurant I would expect children, and expect some noise. I think that is perfectly appropriate in the daytime in a family restaurant.
'Family friendly' doesn't mean 'anything goes'. It usually means that a restaurant or pub has a children's menu, provides high chairs and baby changing facilities and has crayons and colouring books to keep children amused.
It does not mean that they are welcome to run riot around the place, annoy other customers, scream and roar and create tripping hazards for the staff.
Families have three choices in your scenario: they can control their children, they can stay at home, or they can let them annoy other customers. Unfortunately, too many parents choose the latter option.
The problem you are referring to, as I stated earlier, is presumably extremely rare? Some children are harder to control than others, that doesn't mean the parents are failing. Our eldest was great as a toddler, our youngest is terrible. You can't blame us being bad parents, they're different children and we try our best. In your eyes though, I'm probably in the bad parent category and I should just stay at home so you don't have to be more tolerant.
I'm going to empathise with parents that allow their children to be children whilst struggling to control them to some degree, yes. I don't really empathise with stuck up people who threaten to assault toddlers.
Want to avoid children? Go somewhere else and not family pubs. Those families have nowhere else to go, you do.
As I previously posted in a reply to you
Oh believe me I have them well sussed out . I now avoid the pubs with screaming , running kids . I had my own three who were well behaved in public places . I dont need now to tolerate naughty children or lazy selfish parents
Oh believe me I have them well sussed out . I now avoid the pubs with screaming , running kids . I had my own three who were well behaved in public places . I dont need now to tolerate naughty children or lazy selfish parents
Great, good for you. And those selfish parents who were probably trying their best but being judged.
Great, good for you. And those selfish parents who were probably trying their best but being judged.
Allowing your child run wild in a restaurant in not trying your best ,no matter how much you excuse it by belittling anyone who wont tolerate it its poor parenting .
If my child was that bored that he needed to run around a restaurant I would be doing him a favour by bringing him to a park and having a picnic .My kids came first when it was their time .
The problem you are referring to, as I stated earlier, is presumably extremely rare? Some children are harder to control than others, that doesn't mean the parents are failing. Our eldest was great as a toddler, our youngest is terrible. You can't blame us being bad parents, they're different children and we try our best. In your eyes though, I'm probably in the bad parent category and I should just stay at home so you don't have to be more tolerant.
No it's not extremely rare at all. I don't blame people for being bad parents because they have a difficult child. I blame them for allowing that child to disrupt other diners in a restaurant. If your child is screaming and shouting and refusing to sit at the table then you need to take them outside .
The poverty in Africa thing was to try and display what a first world problem this is. Like complaining about a splinter to someone who has had their leg amputated.
I admit that there are appropriate and inappropriate places for children to be noisy sure, perhaps I should have been more specific. In a family restaurant I would expect children, and expect some noise. I think that is perfectly appropriate in the daytime in a family restaurant.
It's still an annoyance and a problem and people have a right to moan about it if it irritates them. I'm sure my Sky TV box breaking down classes as a "first world problem" (A phrase I hate) but it's still bloody annoying, yeah I'm lucky I'm not starving but that has no relevance to my TV.
As someone else has said a "family restaurant" often just means a childrens menu and high chairs. Yes, I'd expect children to be there but I'd expect them to be sat at the table behaving. Even in a place with a play area, I'd expect them to be running around in the play area, not in the actual restaurant. There's nowhere that I would be expecting them to be running around shouting in the actual restaurant.
As I say, I tend to avoid those places, generally because they're chain-type places and I prefer better food. In the nice local pub we often go to they have high chairs but I wouldn't expect anyone to be running around screaming. I'll be absolutely mortified if my son ever does that and he'd get told off. I get embarrassed and take him outside if he cries at the moment, thankfully he doesn't really cry much and is well behaved.
Number two; You claimed that you were fine hearing kids play in a playground, but not in a restaurant. Do you not realise one not being annoying, and the other being annoying, is a bit of a double standard.
A playground is designed, and indeed exists, for the purpose of children playing. A restaurant does not. Surely that is obvious?
Comments
But you wouldn't know what happened or who had done it?
I'm going to empathise with parents that allow their children to be children whilst struggling to control them to some degree, yes. I don't really empathise with stuck up people who threaten to assault toddlers.
Want to avoid children? Go somewhere else and not family pubs. Those families have nowhere else to go, you do.
Well that's just it. Most people do care, so it's not down to the majority needing to be more tolerant, to facilitate the minority.
Most of these cases are family pubs in the daytime. You can go elsewhere, they can't.
How about when the parents aren't making any effort to control them? I've seen children running up and down between tables and the parents are just leaving them to it. Is that perfectly acceptable to you?
No, but I don't think I've ever witnessed that outside of a pub with a play area. Most parents will call them back.
Then you are lucky
And what about toddlers assualting other guests and/or staff?
If it does happen, which would be very rare, it wouldn't bother me. However I think more people are likely to exaggerate how bad the parents are, rather than the parents actually being bad.
Again, something I've never seen. Getting accidentally under their feet us not assault, purposefully tripping someone over is.
What a load of absolute rubbish! So you're saying that recognising the difference between something happening in an appropriate place and an inappropriate place is having double standards? So by your argument because you're perfectly happy for kids to run around screaming in a restaurant then you'd also be happy for them to do that at a funeral service or a wedding ceremony? I doubt that.
A restaurant isn't an appropriate place for kids to run around screaming whereas, a playground is an ideal place for kids to run around screaming. In the same way that I'm perfectly happy for a bunch of men to shout and chant songs at a football ground but I wouldn't particularly want them all at my grans funeral chanting "Going down" as they lower the coffin.
Also, people aren't on about the occasional sound of children, they're on about children running around, screaming loudly and generally behaving in an inappropriate manner. OK, so if the prodding is a "false equivalent" (maybe I should have compared it to something completely relevant like poverty in Africa eh?) hows about something completely equivalent, an adult running around the restaurant, shouting, barging your chair out of the way and running into waiters. Exactly the same, except one is an adult and the other is a child. You'd be fine with that I take it.
It does happen unfortunately - probably quite rare as I think most parents are at least trying to be good parents.
If I see parents attempting to control their children then I will have sympathy. If they are not paying attention and letting them do what they want then I get irritated.
No I meant 'accidentally' on purpose, this is very different I think you will find!
'Family friendly' doesn't mean 'anything goes'. It usually means that a restaurant or pub has a children's menu, provides high chairs and baby changing facilities and has crayons and colouring books to keep children amused.
It does not mean that they are welcome to run riot around the place, annoy other customers, scream and roar and create tripping hazards for the staff.
Families have three choices in your scenario: they can control their children, they can stay at home, or they can let them annoy other customers. Unfortunately, too many parents choose the latter option.
The poverty in Africa thing was to try and display what a first world problem this is. Like complaining about a splinter to someone who has had their leg amputated.
I admit that there are appropriate and inappropriate places for children to be noisy sure, perhaps I should have been more specific. In a family restaurant I would expect children, and expect some noise. I think that is perfectly appropriate in the daytime in a family restaurant.
The problem you are referring to, as I stated earlier, is presumably extremely rare? Some children are harder to control than others, that doesn't mean the parents are failing. Our eldest was great as a toddler, our youngest is terrible. You can't blame us being bad parents, they're different children and we try our best. In your eyes though, I'm probably in the bad parent category and I should just stay at home so you don't have to be more tolerant.
Bloody hell. When did McDonalds close down? Was it before or after Burger King? How come it didn't make the news?
McD's and BK serve wine and beer now? Problem sorted!
As I previously posted in a reply to you
Oh believe me I have them well sussed out . I now avoid the pubs with screaming , running kids . I had my own three who were well behaved in public places . I dont need now to tolerate naughty children or lazy selfish parents
Ah, so kids are only allowed in fast food places that sell horrible food? I see.
And we're bad parents for taking them somewhere healthier?
Great, good for you. And those selfish parents who were probably trying their best but being judged.
Allowing your child run wild in a restaurant in not trying your best ,no matter how much you excuse it by belittling anyone who wont tolerate it its poor parenting .
If my child was that bored that he needed to run around a restaurant I would be doing him a favour by bringing him to a park and having a picnic .My kids came first when it was their time .
No it's not extremely rare at all. I don't blame people for being bad parents because they have a difficult child. I blame them for allowing that child to disrupt other diners in a restaurant. If your child is screaming and shouting and refusing to sit at the table then you need to take them outside .
It's still an annoyance and a problem and people have a right to moan about it if it irritates them. I'm sure my Sky TV box breaking down classes as a "first world problem" (A phrase I hate) but it's still bloody annoying, yeah I'm lucky I'm not starving but that has no relevance to my TV.
As someone else has said a "family restaurant" often just means a childrens menu and high chairs. Yes, I'd expect children to be there but I'd expect them to be sat at the table behaving. Even in a place with a play area, I'd expect them to be running around in the play area, not in the actual restaurant. There's nowhere that I would be expecting them to be running around shouting in the actual restaurant.
As I say, I tend to avoid those places, generally because they're chain-type places and I prefer better food. In the nice local pub we often go to they have high chairs but I wouldn't expect anyone to be running around screaming. I'll be absolutely mortified if my son ever does that and he'd get told off. I get embarrassed and take him outside if he cries at the moment, thankfully he doesn't really cry much and is well behaved.
A playground is designed, and indeed exists, for the purpose of children playing. A restaurant does not. Surely that is obvious?