id agree with this assesment, although commercially it does seem like an opportunity lost.
The Americans had that market sewn up though.
You could also argue that that period was the last time that (relative) commercial success was achievable through artistic endeavour rather than compromise. You didn't have to just chase the latest trends around in order to have a hit, you could just make an excellent record and people would buy it because it was an excellent record.
I'm sure most of the great British artists from that time are very happy that their music is still bought and revered to this day rather than just being "ironically" danced to by students in afro wigs and wide-lapelled shirts at club retro nights; even if it does mean that they didn't tap into the brief disco goldmine at the time.
awb? not aware of them doing disco, hot chocolate created pop, some with a disco flavour but they werent disco. the real thing created disco style pop, true, but that was one act whos chart reign was over before disco reached its zenith.
im not aware of the others creating disco and they certainly didnt bother the charts with it.
Pretty sure that's a disco song. AWB were very versatile, blurred the distinction between funk, soul, disco...jazz even but are largely forgotten it would seem.
You could also argue that that period was the last time that (relative) commercial success was achievable through artistic endeavour rather than compromise. You didn't have to just chase the latest trends around in order to have a hit, you could just make an excellent record and people would buy it because it was an excellent record.
I'm sure most of the great British artists from that time are very happy that their music is still bought and revered to this day rather than just being "ironically" danced to by students in afro wigs and wide-lapelled shirts at club retro nights; even if it does mean that they didn't tap into the brief disco goldmine at the time.
absolutely! thats the vibe i remember that period as, people wanting to create new sounds, new music, all courtesy of punks 'do it yourself' and 'why not' attitude.
Pretty sure that's a disco song. AWB were very versatile, blurred the distinction between funk, soul, disco...jazz even but are largely forgotten it would seem.
you answered your own response.... awb may have (like others) employed some elements of disco in some tracks....but they werent a disco act and had limited chart success.
I love disco more than anything . .
The Bee Gees are british, so are The Real Thing . .
debating with 'unique' a while ago, he slated the beegeees as not 'real' disco, he was right. whilst the beegees had a short lived commercial success (which is only 1 part of a long career) the real disco was found in clubs. the tracks listed by len above are the real thing.
as for the real thing... disco? their biggest hits were contemporary pop, so elements of disco might be found but no serious disco fan would cite them as (oh the irony) the real thing! lol. they did have a few minor hits which may have a greater disco influence, 'lets go disco', #39, rainin through my sunshine #40 for eg are tracks im not familiar with.
Were Hot Chocolate Disco?
The Real Thing?
The Three Degrees?
I'm sure we had a few British acts who did Disco.
Hot Chocolate - Every 1's A Winner, You Sexy Thing
The Real Thing - Can You Feel The Force, Let's Go Disco
The Three Degrees - Giving Up Giving In, The Runner
Even Paul McCartney and Wings, Leo Sayer and Rolling Stones had 'disco' hits. ABBA, ELO, Rod Stewart, Olivia Newton-John.... quite a list.
The whole concept of Disco of a funny one as what was being shown in the media as Disco didn't bear any relation to what was actually being played in the clubs and 'discos' at the time.
The whole disco era coincided with the beginning of the real club scene in the UK where white kids were going out and dancing to black music. But the black music they were dancing to was soul, funk, R&B and not disco as was being sold to the tv viewers. Some of the more classy disco like Chic crossed between the 2 but the more commercial disco was always considered a bit of a joke by the club goers.
It seems strange to me, that whilst disco was popular with the masses in the late 70's, it seems to have been totally ignored by british musicians highlighted even more so when you consider 79-82 were arguably the time when our charts were at the most diverse.e.
the simple fact of the matter is it wasn't ignored by british musicians.
in fact some of the biggest selling disco records of all time were by british acts. one of the biggest selling albums of all time features predominantly british written tracks on a disco album
many of the biggest british acts recorded disco and disco influenced tracks, and of those many were huge sellers. for example the rolling stones, queen, elton john, bee gees, ELO, david bowie, mike oldfield, paul mccartney, pink floyd, john lennon and cliff richard. even led zep had some disco influences which become more apparent in john paul jones solo material from the period you mentioned. pink floyd closed the 70s with their own number 1 single which was one of the disco influenced tracks from one of their biggest selling albums
then you have other acts that are perhaps best known for disco inspired works such as hot chocolate, the real thing and olivia newton john (she's about as australian as rod stewart is scottish)
even in the later period you have bands and artists like PIL adam ant, duran duran, wham, pet shop boys, the clash, and countless dance, soul and pop acts with clear disco influences
thus to think disco was totally ignored by british artists is far from the truth. even anyone with a casual knowledge of music would be aware of it's influence at the time. british artists have been some of the biggest disco influences in the world, and some of the biggest selling disco tracks, with british artists having tracks topping the US album charts for a straight 24 week run, and a similar straight run of 18 weeks in the uk album charts, with a number of british disco tracks at number 1 in the uk and us singles charts at the same time. british artists had quite a dominating effect on the disco scene. just ask someone to name you a disco record today and there is a good chance they will name one by a british artist. similarly ask someone to name their favourite disco track and there's a high chance a british act will be named
id agree with this assesment, although commercially it does seem like an opportunity lost.
no, hot chocolate were pop, soul pop, they were long established before disco with some very fine tracks
Some Hot Chocolate records were considered disco (Disco Queen, You Sexy Thing, Every 1's A Winner, Mindless Boogie, Going Through The Motions, etc). They were played in clubs and even featured in British films like The Stud and The Bitch and accompanying disco soundtracks (on Ronco or similar label).
Some of the more classy disco like Chic crossed between the 2 but the more commercial disco was always considered a bit of a joke by the club goers.
A quick glance at the mainstream club playlist charts from the era in Record Mirror proves that assertion wrong.. unless by 'club goers' you mean the small number of art students and fashionistas in the handful of 'alternative' clubs playing German electronic music and white dance-rock.
A quick glance at the mainstream club playlist charts from the era in Record Mirror proves that assertion wrong.. unless by 'club goers' you mean the small number of art students and fashionistas in the handful of 'alternative' clubs playing German electronic music and white dance-rock.
No, I'm talking about the clubs like The Goldmine and Lacy Lady and other places where the whole dance music movement started back in the 70's with DJ's like Chris Hill.
the simple fact of the matter is it wasn't ignored by british musicians.
in fact some of the biggest selling disco records of all time were by british acts. one of the biggest selling albums of all time features predominantly british written tracks on a disco album
many of the biggest british acts recorded disco and disco influenced tracks, and of those many were huge sellers. for example the rolling stones, queen, elton john, bee gees, ELO, david bowie, mike oldfield, paul mccartney, pink floyd, john lennon and cliff richard. even led zep had some disco influences which become more apparent in john paul jones solo material from the period you mentioned. pink floyd closed the 70s with their own number 1 single which was one of the disco influenced tracks from one of their biggest selling albums
then you have other acts that are perhaps best known for disco inspired works such as hot chocolate, the real thing and olivia newton john (she's about as australian as rod stewart is scottish)
even in the later period you have bands and artists like PIL adam ant, duran duran, wham, pet shop boys, the clash, and countless dance, soul and pop acts with clear disco influences
thus to think disco was totally ignored by british artists is far from the truth. even anyone with a casual knowledge of music would be aware of it's influence at the time. british artists have been some of the biggest disco influences in the world, and some of the biggest selling disco tracks, with british artists having tracks topping the US album charts for a straight 24 week run, and a similar straight run of 18 weeks in the uk album charts, with a number of british disco tracks at number 1 in the uk and us singles charts at the same time. british artists had quite a dominating effect on the disco scene. just ask someone to name you a disco record today and there is a good chance they will name one by a british artist. similarly ask someone to name their favourite disco track and there's a high chance a british act will be named
I have to agree with this the original poster is talking purist nonsense. Just because there were few 'disco' only British acts does not mean that British musicians in the late 70s totally ignored 'disco'.
The overwhelming evidence is that far from it, British artists were both influenced by and an influence in the development of disco music at the time.
I have to agree with this the original poster is talking purist nonsense. Just because there were few 'disco' only British acts does not mean that British musicians in the late 70s totally ignored 'disco'.
The overwhelming evidence is that far from it, British artists were both influenced by and an influence in the development of disco music at the time.
True even Traditional Rock bands like Quo dabbled with it a bit. This single was released on 1978 it has a bit of a discoey beat to it. However it was their first single in 7 years not to reach the top 20.
Hot Chocolate - Every 1's A Winner, You Sexy Thing
The Real Thing - Can You Feel The Force, Let's Go Disco
The Three Degrees - Giving Up Giving In, The Runner
Even Paul McCartney and Wings, Leo Sayer and Rolling Stones had 'disco' hits. ABBA, ELO, Rod Stewart, Olivia Newton-John.... quite a list.
AAARRRGGGH... please! for the last time, the three degrees were AMERICAN!
those hot chocolate tracks were pop, not disco. hot chocolate had been producing pop/dance/soul tracks since 1970, lobg before disco . i doubt youd get any true disco fan calling these acts disco.
The whole concept of Disco of a funny one as what was being shown in the media as Disco didn't bear any relation to what was actually being played in the clubs and 'discos' at the time.
The whole disco era coincided with the beginning of the real club scene in the UK where white kids were going out and dancing to black music. But the black music they were dancing to was soul, funk, R&B and not disco as was being sold to the tv viewers. Some of the more classy disco like Chic crossed between the 2 but the more commercial disco was always considered a bit of a joke by the club goers.
eh?... so either disco 'started the real club scene', or soul, funk, rnb was....
Some Hot Chocolate records were considered disco (Disco Queen, You Sexy Thing, Every 1's A Winner, Mindless Boogie, Going Through The Motions, etc). They were played in clubs and even featured in British films like The Stud and The Bitch and accompanying disco soundtracks (on Ronco or similar label).
i posted the link to what the definition is of disco.
I have to agree with this the original poster is talking purist nonsense. Just because there were few 'disco' only British acts does not mean that British musicians in the late 70s totally ignored 'disco'.
The overwhelming evidence is that far from it, British artists were both influenced by and an influence in the development of disco music at the time.
ive said that there was some disco influence, but IN COMPARISON to other dance styles, funk, reggae, rockabilly, ska(two tone) jazz funk, disco was severely under reprisented. just view the charts from 81, 82, 83... there are huge jazz funk, funk, reggae, ska, influences even rap and latin .
the simple fact of the matter is it wasn't ignored by british musicians.
no you are right, i shouldnt have put 'totally' ignored, i corrected that later by sayng that there was some disco influence but IN COMPARISON to other dance styles, namely funk, reggae, rockabilly and latin, discos influence was negligable as our singles charts testify in the early 80's.
in fact some of the biggest selling disco records of all time were by british acts. one of the biggest selling albums of all time features predominantly british written tracks on a disco album
true, but previously you dismissed chart disco and the bee gee as not 'real' disco. i agreed.
many of the biggest british acts recorded disco and disco influenced tracks, and of those many were huge sellers. for example the rolling stones, queen, elton john, bee gees, ELO, david bowie, mike oldfield, paul mccartney, pink floyd, john lennon and cliff richard. even led zep had some disco influences which become more apparent in john paul jones solo material from the period you mentioned. pink floyd closed the 70s with their own number 1 single which was one of the disco influenced tracks from one of their biggest selling albums
its a grey area, 'influenced'... every style of music thats emerged since rock n roll has been shown in the charts by other, watered down, contemporary artists. did these artists employ some disco elements? yes, but they didnt embrace disco per se.
then you have other acts that are perhaps best known for disco inspired works such as hot chocolate, the real thing and olivia newton john (she's about as australian as rod stewart is scottish)
hot chocolate were producing class pop long before disco became popular. they embraced soul, funk, r&b and packaged it with a string of hits which imho were far superior to the later material. take for eg "you could have been a lady" (1971), or the social comments on 'brother louie' or 'emma'. i suggest that hot chocolate thrived dispite disco, not because of it.
i also think that some people lazily refer to dance music of that era as disco, when alot of it is dance/pop, or funk influenced pop.
even in the later period you have bands and artists like PIL adam ant, duran duran, wham, pet shop boys, the clash, and countless dance, soul and pop acts with clear disco influences
true to a degree, but again in comparison there was far more funk influenced music in the charts from the early 80's (psb were later )
thus to think disco was totally ignored by british artists is far from the truth. even anyone with a casual knowledge of music would be aware of it's influence at the time. british artists have been some of the biggest disco influences in the world, and some of the biggest selling disco tracks, with british artists having tracks topping the US album charts for a straight 24 week run, and a similar straight run of 18 weeks in the uk album charts, with a number of british disco tracks at number 1 in the uk and us singles charts at the same time. british artists had quite a dominating effect on the disco scene. just ask someone to name you a disco record today and there is a good chance they will name one by a british artist. similarly ask someone to name their favourite disco track and there's a high chance a british act will be named
take the beegees out of the equasion and what do you have?
how can a 'track' top the album charts? are not albums made up of 'trackS'?
you dismissed commercial chart disco as not the real thing, funny how when it suits you cite it as evidence! :D
i have a good knowlege of the uk charts over this period, i see acts like the associates, spandau ballet, haircut 100,abc, blue rondo a la turk, freeez, kajagoogoo, genesis, shakatak to name but a few who were all producing funk/jazz funk inspired music, why? because thats what was being played in the clubs.
great. agreed. problem solved. time to close the thread
should have read 'largely'.
firstly, my original post was asking the question why british musicians didnt embrace disco , and i asked why by the early 80's wasnt disco reprisented?
funk, jazz funk, reggae, ska, rockabilly, all impacted on british musicians, the evidence is there in the charts in the early 80's. so why no disco?
.
what i got in replies were artists that had finished by the early 80's... the real thing, tina charles, beegees (producing disco), awb (never were disco) and hot chocolate who never were a disco act but did employ some disco elements in some of their material.... however, hot chocolate preceeded disco, and superceeded it.
interestingly 'unique' pointed out a few of the 'older acts' who dabbled, but this wasnt in doubt, and my referance to 'totally ignoring disco' was the wrong phrase to use.
many of the biggest british acts recorded disco and disco influenced tracks, and of those many were huge sellers. for example the rolling stones, queen, elton john, bee gees, ELO, david bowie, mike oldfield, paul mccartney, pink floyd, john lennon and cliff richard
, so tell me, which disco tracks by these artists charted in the early 80's?
many may have dabbled with it, but non embraced it.
by 1981, the punk/post punk generation, MY generation, had all but ignored disco in favour of funk, jazz funk, reggae, latin, rockabilly (im talking dance styles, rock, punk, indie etc were all going strongly too).
'blondie x' is spot on too
The whole concept of Disco of a funny one as what was being shown in the media as Disco didn't bear any relation to what was actually being played in the clubs and 'discos' at the time.
The whole disco era coincided with the beginning of the real club scene in the UK where white kids were going out and dancing to black music. But the black music they were dancing to was soul, funk, R&B and not disco as was being sold to the tv viewers. Some of the more classy disco like Chic crossed between the 2 but the more commercial disco was always considered a bit of a joke by the club goers.
certainly the 'dance' clubs here in derby didnt play disco, they were more likely to play a tito puente track then sylvester. but it was jazz funk, funk and soul that was popular.
this fashion can be seen in the singles chart from 81-84, where many of the acts i previously cited (the associates, spandau ballet, haircut 100,abc, blue rondo a la turk, freeez, kajagoogoo, genesis, shakatak), along with heaven 17, level 42, even wham! duran duran and many others used funk or jazz funk as the main influence, and disco was all but ignored.
disco was mainly a studio based genre. key elements of disco are strings and horns, thus large numbers of people performed on those tracks. the salsoul orchestra was made up of about 50 members and they were salsouls version of the funk brothers or the wrecking crew. even putting expense aside, the logistics of getting that number of people together in the same place at the same time for a number of dates to make a tour made things difficult. however as disco music was based primarily about going out and listening in clubs, and the records still sold in great numbers, there wasn't any need to put on live gigs.
as such, unlike many other types of music, such as rock and pop, a handful of people couldn't just get together and make a convincing disco band that could compare favourably to existing disco music. consider the most popular bands of the 70s for example and they are mainly 4 or 5 peice bands comprising of bass, drums, keyboards, guitar and vocals, and the most popular bands retained the same or similar lineup of those instruments at least in the 70s, thus the beatles, the stones, floyd, zep, who, queen. it was relatively easy to get 3 or 4 people to join you in a garage or rehearsal space and get those basic instruments etc together to jam, and even move to putting on a gig or cutting a demo
if you consider the same acts i mentioned above, they gained enough success to be able to afford to add strings and horns to recordings, but in most cases they still toured without adding to the key lineup
thus whilst so many artists of so many genres across the uk and the world jumped onto the disco bandwagon and created disco tracks, it was because they could do this in the studio. the live performances wouldn't normally include strings and horns. later once keyboard and sampler technology had advanced it was easier to more realistically emulate that level of instrumentation in a live setting, and similarly disco dj's used technology to make their own music on a budget which was the start of dance music as we know it today, and those disco influences have continued throughout to today and will do for a long time
so to put it simply, it was easy to start a rock or pop band, it was easier to start a punk band as musical expectations were considerably lower, for example the bass player of one of the most famous punk bands was barely able to play at all, but it wasn't within the reach of most people who wanted to start a band to be able to play disco for logistical reasons. even synths in the 70s were beyond the affordability of most people. skip to the early 80s and they became much more capable and affordable, thus the rise of synthpop, and by the mid 80s you could buy cheap keyboards in high street stores like wh smiths
but even with all those considerations disco was a hugely influential and chart dominating genre across the uk and the world
what is more interesting is to consider is why music of black origin, in particular soul, funk, jazz and not rock based, has never been anywhere near as successful for UK artists as non uk artists. of course there will be some of the same logistic issues, but soul/funk/jazz acts can still have small and smallish lineups from jazz trios to quartets and quintets, and a soul or funk band need only add a sax and maybe a horn, but then again there have still been very succesful soul/funk acts that had no brass at all and used keyboards instead. think of the time, cameo, zapp who's main sound is that of sythns, or even prince who's first 6 albums had no brass, just keys, and when he did add horns to his live set, such as the soul revue styled 86 parade hit and run tour, he only had 2 brass players, sax/flute and horn, for a sellout international tour. so if well known succesful funk/soul groups can do it, oviously any band could
even to date there have been hardly any succesful uk soul/funk/jazz acts. sade is very much an exception. terrence trent d'arby another (Or sanandra maitreya as he prefers to be known by know - which is his real name). apart from that, there are just a few others that had any notable succes, but little outside the uk, such as beverley knight, david lynden hall, brand new heavies. not exactly the same type of household names as american soul/funk/jazz acts
so whilst disco had a huge influence on all sorts of bands from rock to pop and even country and reggae, it's influenced lasted well into the 80s with acts such as wham (and both as wham and solo george has covered a number of disco tracks from jive talking to ain't no stopping us now, love machine etc - he's also covered a fair few stevie wonder tracks as his vocal range was the same as stevies in his classic early 70s period - altho not disco), duran (using nile rogers from chic to produce hits like wild boys and reflex), kylie, pet shop boys, etc, and then in the dance grenres from the 80s to today, handbag house and garage in particular, and of course the late 80s disco revival that boomed in the 90s, with many clubs in the uk at least putting on disco themed nights. and of course next weekend there is the world famous "worlds largest disco" event being held in new york, based on a huge event in 1979 that had 13,000 people and still around 7,000 attend in recent years. those numbers rival raves in peak times
so with disco being so succesful and influential in the uk and accross the globe, why hasn't the uk been very successful with soul, funk and jazz genres? why haven't we been able to find anyone else in the last 30 years to rival the success of sade in those genres? anyone who does come along that sounds promising like craig david, has a bit hit and then just can't keep it up. whereas in the states usually an artist has a hit with a first album/single and then comes back a year or two later and has a real boost in success, such as rihanna or alicia keys
it surely can't simply be down to better writing and production can it? i mean we had some of the best writers in the world with lennon macartney? floyd, stones, zep, who had great songs covered by many. so why can the uk make disco a huge success, but not soul, funk, jazz?
Unique, I would disagree with the comment that Brits aren't good at jazz or jazz-funk... I cite Level 42...
Also - is this more of a cross-pond difference where American purist-sounding views of what constitutes a specific musical style doesn't really apply over here, where British acts take what works from different styles and make it something new?
Could it be said that in the same way that Salsoul etc created the disco template that side of the pond, Queen invented Arena Rock effectively?
disco was mainly a studio based genre. key elements of disco are strings and horns, thus large numbers of people performed on those tracks. the salsoul orchestra was made up of about 50 members and they were salsouls version of the funk brothers or the wrecking crew. even putting expense aside, the logistics of getting that number of people together in the same place at the same time for a number of dates to make a tour made things difficult. however as disco music was based primarily about going out and listening in clubs, and the records still sold in great numbers, there wasn't any need to put on live gigs.
as such, unlike many other types of music, such as rock and pop, a handful of people couldn't just get together and make a convincing disco band that could compare favourably to existing disco music. consider the most popular bands of the 70s for example and they are mainly 4 or 5 peice bands comprising of bass, drums, keyboards, guitar and vocals, and the most popular bands retained the same or similar lineup of those instruments at least in the 70s, thus the beatles, the stones, floyd, zep, who, queen. it was relatively easy to get 3 or 4 people to join you in a garage or rehearsal space and get those basic instruments etc together to jam, and even move to putting on a gig or cutting a demo
but the beegees did, they hadnt that much backing, and disco sold so why didnt record labels invest in acts? would it be really too much for say trevor horne to create a disco sound?
if you consider the same acts i mentioned above, they gained enough success to be able to afford to add strings and horns to recordings, but in most cases they still toured without adding to the key lineup
thus whilst so many artists of so many genres across the uk and the world jumped onto the disco bandwagon and created disco tracks, it was because they could do this in the studio. the live performances wouldn't normally include strings and horns. later once keyboard and sampler technology had advanced it was easier to more realistically emulate that level of instrumentation in a live setting, and similarly disco dj's used technology to make their own music on a budget which was the start of dance music as we know it today, and those disco influences have continued throughout to today and will do for a long time
what about 'liquid gold'? what about the nolans? (lol), kelly marie? they all had big hits in 1980 and what backing did they have? tbh i think the mood just changed, i think we went 'anti disco' because as someone posted previously, it was seen as cheesy and escapist whilst the buzz word on the ground was creativity. jazz funk and latin were popular by 82. personally i liked jazz funk and lating elements in music, i wasnt as keen on disco.
so to put it simply, it was easy to start a rock or pop band, it was easier to start a punk band as musical expectations were considerably lower, for example the bass player of one of the most famous punk bands was barely able to play at all, but it wasn't within the reach of most people who wanted to start a band to be able to play disco for logistical reasons. even synths in the 70s were beyond the affordability of most people. skip to the early 80s and they became much more capable and affordable, thus the rise of synthpop, and by the mid 80s you could buy cheap keyboards in high street stores like wh smiths
but id say that this argument holds water IF the american market/industry had access to these synths and we didnt. otherwise its down to (as previously suggested) fashion. disco went out of fashion in favour of funk.
but even with all those considerations disco was a hugely influential and chart dominating genre across the uk and the world
what is more interesting is to consider is why music of black origin, in particular soul, funk, jazz and not rock based, has never been anywhere near as successful for UK artists as non uk artists. of course there will be some of the same logistic issues, but soul/funk/jazz acts can still have small and smallish lineups from jazz trios to quartets and quintets, and a soul or funk band need only add a sax and maybe a horn, but then again there have still been very succesful soul/funk acts that had no brass at all and used keyboards instead. think of the time, cameo, zapp who's main sound is that of sythns, or even prince who's first 6 albums had no brass, just keys, and when he did add horns to his live set, such as the soul revue styled 86 parade hit and run tour, he only had 2 brass players, sax/flute and horn, for a sellout international tour. so if well known succesful funk/soul groups can do it, oviously any band could
even to date there have been hardly any succesful uk soul/funk/jazz acts. sade is very much an exception. terrence trent d'arby another (Or sanandra maitreya as he prefers to be known by know - which is his real name). apart from that, there are just a few others that had any notable succes, but little outside the uk, such as beverley knight, david lynden hall, brand new heavies. not exactly the same type of household names as american soul/funk/jazz acts
so whilst disco had a huge influence on all sorts of bands from rock to pop and even country and reggae, it's influenced lasted well into the 80s with acts such as wham (and both as wham and solo george has covered a number of disco tracks from jive talking to ain't no stopping us now, love machine etc - he's also covered a fair few stevie wonder tracks as his vocal range was the same as stevies in his classic early 70s period - altho not disco), duran (using nile rogers from chic to produce hits like wild boys and reflex), kylie, pet shop boys, etc, and then in the dance grenres from the 80s to today, handbag house and garage in particular, and of course the late 80s disco revival that boomed in the 90s, with many clubs in the uk at least putting on disco themed nights. and of course next weekend there is the world famous "worlds largest disco" event being held in new york, based on a huge event in 1979 that had 13,000 people and still around 7,000 attend in recent years. those numbers rival raves in peak times
so with disco being so succesful and influential in the uk and accross the globe, why hasn't the uk been very successful with soul, funk and jazz genres? why haven't we been able to find anyone else in the last 30 years to rival the success of sade in those genres? anyone who does come along that sounds promising like craig david, has a bit hit and then just can't keep it up. whereas in the states usually an artist has a hit with a first album/single and then comes back a year or two later and has a real boost in success, such as rihanna or alicia keys
it surely can't simply be down to better writing and production can it? i mean we had some of the best writers in the world with lennon macartney? floyd, stones, zep, who had great songs covered by many. so why can the uk make disco a huge success, but not soul, funk, jazz?
touche! lol... indeed we have produced no one who has created a funk track/album to rival the beegees disco ones.
and when 'we' went off funk and jazz funk in favour of house around the mid 80's, it went and didnt return, unlike disco, who disappeared from our charts in the early 80's but which did revive and influence later on. the disco revival of the mid 90's though was pretty dire tbh, thats when the rainbow coloured afro wigs came in and it all became (and still is) karaoke in fancy dress.
its a shame that today disco is remembered as such, its the poor end of that genre thats remembered, the good stuff you aluded to (in the other thread) that was found in clubs is largely forgotten
its a pity that jazz funk died out, i like abit of that.
British disco wasn't as unique and unusual as people realise. Biddu kicked off the British trend with Summer of 42 and, ofr course, the Bee Gees were British, but there was also Tina Charles, Kelly Marie( right at the end), Hot Chocolate to an extent, ELO flirted with the music in 1978-79 and Some Girls by the Stones had some disco influence.
Comments
The Americans had that market sewn up though.
You could also argue that that period was the last time that (relative) commercial success was achievable through artistic endeavour rather than compromise. You didn't have to just chase the latest trends around in order to have a hit, you could just make an excellent record and people would buy it because it was an excellent record.
I'm sure most of the great British artists from that time are very happy that their music is still bought and revered to this day rather than just being "ironically" danced to by students in afro wigs and wide-lapelled shirts at club retro nights; even if it does mean that they didn't tap into the brief disco goldmine at the time.
Ellie Warren - "Shattered Glass" - 1980 ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUI7vhbAux8
I don't think it was a big hit as it was issued on a small label (Precision - after they had formed out of Pye records)
I remember reading somewhere it was popular in the North.
Has it ever been re-issued? I keep an eye on compilation CDs but haven't found it yet.
The Bee Gees are british, so are The Real Thing . .
Average White Band 'Let's Go Round Again' (1980)
Pretty sure that's a disco song. AWB were very versatile, blurred the distinction between funk, soul, disco...jazz even but are largely forgotten it would seem.
absolutely! thats the vibe i remember that period as, people wanting to create new sounds, new music, all courtesy of punks 'do it yourself' and 'why not' attitude.
you answered your own response.... awb may have (like others) employed some elements of disco in some tracks....but they werent a disco act and had limited chart success.
debating with 'unique' a while ago, he slated the beegeees as not 'real' disco, he was right. whilst the beegees had a short lived commercial success (which is only 1 part of a long career) the real disco was found in clubs. the tracks listed by len above are the real thing.
as for the real thing... disco? their biggest hits were contemporary pop, so elements of disco might be found but no serious disco fan would cite them as (oh the irony) the real thing! lol. they did have a few minor hits which may have a greater disco influence, 'lets go disco', #39, rainin through my sunshine #40 for eg are tracks im not familiar with.
Hot Chocolate - Every 1's A Winner, You Sexy Thing
The Real Thing - Can You Feel The Force, Let's Go Disco
The Three Degrees - Giving Up Giving In, The Runner
Even Paul McCartney and Wings, Leo Sayer and Rolling Stones had 'disco' hits. ABBA, ELO, Rod Stewart, Olivia Newton-John.... quite a list.
The whole disco era coincided with the beginning of the real club scene in the UK where white kids were going out and dancing to black music. But the black music they were dancing to was soul, funk, R&B and not disco as was being sold to the tv viewers. Some of the more classy disco like Chic crossed between the 2 but the more commercial disco was always considered a bit of a joke by the club goers.
the simple fact of the matter is it wasn't ignored by british musicians.
in fact some of the biggest selling disco records of all time were by british acts. one of the biggest selling albums of all time features predominantly british written tracks on a disco album
many of the biggest british acts recorded disco and disco influenced tracks, and of those many were huge sellers. for example the rolling stones, queen, elton john, bee gees, ELO, david bowie, mike oldfield, paul mccartney, pink floyd, john lennon and cliff richard. even led zep had some disco influences which become more apparent in john paul jones solo material from the period you mentioned. pink floyd closed the 70s with their own number 1 single which was one of the disco influenced tracks from one of their biggest selling albums
then you have other acts that are perhaps best known for disco inspired works such as hot chocolate, the real thing and olivia newton john (she's about as australian as rod stewart is scottish)
even in the later period you have bands and artists like PIL adam ant, duran duran, wham, pet shop boys, the clash, and countless dance, soul and pop acts with clear disco influences
thus to think disco was totally ignored by british artists is far from the truth. even anyone with a casual knowledge of music would be aware of it's influence at the time. british artists have been some of the biggest disco influences in the world, and some of the biggest selling disco tracks, with british artists having tracks topping the US album charts for a straight 24 week run, and a similar straight run of 18 weeks in the uk album charts, with a number of british disco tracks at number 1 in the uk and us singles charts at the same time. british artists had quite a dominating effect on the disco scene. just ask someone to name you a disco record today and there is a good chance they will name one by a british artist. similarly ask someone to name their favourite disco track and there's a high chance a british act will be named
Some Hot Chocolate records were considered disco (Disco Queen, You Sexy Thing, Every 1's A Winner, Mindless Boogie, Going Through The Motions, etc). They were played in clubs and even featured in British films like The Stud and The Bitch and accompanying disco soundtracks (on Ronco or similar label).
no, disco succeeds!
A quick glance at the mainstream club playlist charts from the era in Record Mirror proves that assertion wrong.. unless by 'club goers' you mean the small number of art students and fashionistas in the handful of 'alternative' clubs playing German electronic music and white dance-rock.
No, I'm talking about the clubs like The Goldmine and Lacy Lady and other places where the whole dance music movement started back in the 70's with DJ's like Chris Hill.
... in sucking!
I have to agree with this the original poster is talking purist nonsense. Just because there were few 'disco' only British acts does not mean that British musicians in the late 70s totally ignored 'disco'.
The overwhelming evidence is that far from it, British artists were both influenced by and an influence in the development of disco music at the time.
True even Traditional Rock bands like Quo dabbled with it a bit. This single was released on 1978 it has a bit of a discoey beat to it. However it was their first single in 7 years not to reach the top 20.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMQxT2xMOAo
AAARRRGGGH... please! for the last time, the three degrees were AMERICAN!
those hot chocolate tracks were pop, not disco. hot chocolate had been producing pop/dance/soul tracks since 1970, lobg before disco . i doubt youd get any true disco fan calling these acts disco.
eh?... so either disco 'started the real club scene', or soul, funk, rnb was....
agreed about your last bit.
in arguing. calling the three degrees a british act is wrong.
if you care to look and not chery pick, youll see i agree with most.
i posted the link to what the definition is of disco.
ive said that there was some disco influence, but IN COMPARISON to other dance styles, funk, reggae, rockabilly, ska(two tone) jazz funk, disco was severely under reprisented. just view the charts from 81, 82, 83... there are huge jazz funk, funk, reggae, ska, influences even rap and latin .
no you are right, i shouldnt have put 'totally' ignored, i corrected that later by sayng that there was some disco influence but IN COMPARISON to other dance styles, namely funk, reggae, rockabilly and latin, discos influence was negligable as our singles charts testify in the early 80's.
true, but previously you dismissed chart disco and the bee gee as not 'real' disco. i agreed.
its a grey area, 'influenced'... every style of music thats emerged since rock n roll has been shown in the charts by other, watered down, contemporary artists. did these artists employ some disco elements? yes, but they didnt embrace disco per se.
hot chocolate were producing class pop long before disco became popular. they embraced soul, funk, r&b and packaged it with a string of hits which imho were far superior to the later material. take for eg "you could have been a lady" (1971), or the social comments on 'brother louie' or 'emma'. i suggest that hot chocolate thrived dispite disco, not because of it.
i also think that some people lazily refer to dance music of that era as disco, when alot of it is dance/pop, or funk influenced pop. true to a degree, but again in comparison there was far more funk influenced music in the charts from the early 80's (psb were later
take the beegees out of the equasion and what do you have?
how can a 'track' top the album charts? are not albums made up of 'trackS'?
you dismissed commercial chart disco as not the real thing, funny how when it suits you cite it as evidence!
i have a good knowlege of the uk charts over this period, i see acts like the associates, spandau ballet, haircut 100,abc, blue rondo a la turk, freeez, kajagoogoo, genesis, shakatak to name but a few who were all producing funk/jazz funk inspired music, why? because thats what was being played in the clubs.
great. agreed. problem solved. time to close the thread
should have read 'largely'.
firstly, my original post was asking the question why british musicians didnt embrace disco , and i asked why by the early 80's wasnt disco reprisented? .
what i got in replies were artists that had finished by the early 80's... the real thing, tina charles, beegees (producing disco), awb (never were disco) and hot chocolate who never were a disco act but did employ some disco elements in some of their material.... however, hot chocolate preceeded disco, and superceeded it.
interestingly 'unique' pointed out a few of the 'older acts' who dabbled, but this wasnt in doubt, and my referance to 'totally ignoring disco' was the wrong phrase to use. , so tell me, which disco tracks by these artists charted in the early 80's?
many may have dabbled with it, but non embraced it.
by 1981, the punk/post punk generation, MY generation, had all but ignored disco in favour of funk, jazz funk, reggae, latin, rockabilly (im talking dance styles, rock, punk, indie etc were all going strongly too).
'blondie x' is spot on too
certainly the 'dance' clubs here in derby didnt play disco, they were more likely to play a tito puente track then sylvester. but it was jazz funk, funk and soul that was popular.
this fashion can be seen in the singles chart from 81-84, where many of the acts i previously cited (the associates, spandau ballet, haircut 100,abc, blue rondo a la turk, freeez, kajagoogoo, genesis, shakatak), along with heaven 17, level 42, even wham! duran duran and many others used funk or jazz funk as the main influence, and disco was all but ignored.
as such, unlike many other types of music, such as rock and pop, a handful of people couldn't just get together and make a convincing disco band that could compare favourably to existing disco music. consider the most popular bands of the 70s for example and they are mainly 4 or 5 peice bands comprising of bass, drums, keyboards, guitar and vocals, and the most popular bands retained the same or similar lineup of those instruments at least in the 70s, thus the beatles, the stones, floyd, zep, who, queen. it was relatively easy to get 3 or 4 people to join you in a garage or rehearsal space and get those basic instruments etc together to jam, and even move to putting on a gig or cutting a demo
if you consider the same acts i mentioned above, they gained enough success to be able to afford to add strings and horns to recordings, but in most cases they still toured without adding to the key lineup
thus whilst so many artists of so many genres across the uk and the world jumped onto the disco bandwagon and created disco tracks, it was because they could do this in the studio. the live performances wouldn't normally include strings and horns. later once keyboard and sampler technology had advanced it was easier to more realistically emulate that level of instrumentation in a live setting, and similarly disco dj's used technology to make their own music on a budget which was the start of dance music as we know it today, and those disco influences have continued throughout to today and will do for a long time
so to put it simply, it was easy to start a rock or pop band, it was easier to start a punk band as musical expectations were considerably lower, for example the bass player of one of the most famous punk bands was barely able to play at all, but it wasn't within the reach of most people who wanted to start a band to be able to play disco for logistical reasons. even synths in the 70s were beyond the affordability of most people. skip to the early 80s and they became much more capable and affordable, thus the rise of synthpop, and by the mid 80s you could buy cheap keyboards in high street stores like wh smiths
but even with all those considerations disco was a hugely influential and chart dominating genre across the uk and the world
what is more interesting is to consider is why music of black origin, in particular soul, funk, jazz and not rock based, has never been anywhere near as successful for UK artists as non uk artists. of course there will be some of the same logistic issues, but soul/funk/jazz acts can still have small and smallish lineups from jazz trios to quartets and quintets, and a soul or funk band need only add a sax and maybe a horn, but then again there have still been very succesful soul/funk acts that had no brass at all and used keyboards instead. think of the time, cameo, zapp who's main sound is that of sythns, or even prince who's first 6 albums had no brass, just keys, and when he did add horns to his live set, such as the soul revue styled 86 parade hit and run tour, he only had 2 brass players, sax/flute and horn, for a sellout international tour. so if well known succesful funk/soul groups can do it, oviously any band could
even to date there have been hardly any succesful uk soul/funk/jazz acts. sade is very much an exception. terrence trent d'arby another (Or sanandra maitreya as he prefers to be known by know - which is his real name). apart from that, there are just a few others that had any notable succes, but little outside the uk, such as beverley knight, david lynden hall, brand new heavies. not exactly the same type of household names as american soul/funk/jazz acts
so whilst disco had a huge influence on all sorts of bands from rock to pop and even country and reggae, it's influenced lasted well into the 80s with acts such as wham (and both as wham and solo george has covered a number of disco tracks from jive talking to ain't no stopping us now, love machine etc - he's also covered a fair few stevie wonder tracks as his vocal range was the same as stevies in his classic early 70s period - altho not disco), duran (using nile rogers from chic to produce hits like wild boys and reflex), kylie, pet shop boys, etc, and then in the dance grenres from the 80s to today, handbag house and garage in particular, and of course the late 80s disco revival that boomed in the 90s, with many clubs in the uk at least putting on disco themed nights. and of course next weekend there is the world famous "worlds largest disco" event being held in new york, based on a huge event in 1979 that had 13,000 people and still around 7,000 attend in recent years. those numbers rival raves in peak times
so with disco being so succesful and influential in the uk and accross the globe, why hasn't the uk been very successful with soul, funk and jazz genres? why haven't we been able to find anyone else in the last 30 years to rival the success of sade in those genres? anyone who does come along that sounds promising like craig david, has a bit hit and then just can't keep it up. whereas in the states usually an artist has a hit with a first album/single and then comes back a year or two later and has a real boost in success, such as rihanna or alicia keys
it surely can't simply be down to better writing and production can it? i mean we had some of the best writers in the world with lennon macartney? floyd, stones, zep, who had great songs covered by many. so why can the uk make disco a huge success, but not soul, funk, jazz?
Also - is this more of a cross-pond difference where American purist-sounding views of what constitutes a specific musical style doesn't really apply over here, where British acts take what works from different styles and make it something new?
Could it be said that in the same way that Salsoul etc created the disco template that side of the pond, Queen invented Arena Rock effectively?
but the beegees did, they hadnt that much backing, and disco sold so why didnt record labels invest in acts? would it be really too much for say trevor horne to create a disco sound?
what about 'liquid gold'? what about the nolans? (lol), kelly marie? they all had big hits in 1980 and what backing did they have? tbh i think the mood just changed, i think we went 'anti disco' because as someone posted previously, it was seen as cheesy and escapist whilst the buzz word on the ground was creativity. jazz funk and latin were popular by 82. personally i liked jazz funk and lating elements in music, i wasnt as keen on disco.
but id say that this argument holds water IF the american market/industry had access to these synths and we didnt. otherwise its down to (as previously suggested) fashion. disco went out of fashion in favour of funk.
touche! lol... indeed we have produced no one who has created a funk track/album to rival the beegees disco ones.
and when 'we' went off funk and jazz funk in favour of house around the mid 80's, it went and didnt return, unlike disco, who disappeared from our charts in the early 80's but which did revive and influence later on. the disco revival of the mid 90's though was pretty dire tbh, thats when the rainbow coloured afro wigs came in and it all became (and still is) karaoke in fancy dress.
its a shame that today disco is remembered as such, its the poor end of that genre thats remembered, the good stuff you aluded to (in the other thread) that was found in clubs is largely forgotten
its a pity that jazz funk died out, i like abit of that.
time for a revival anyone? lol.