I've used contactless bank cards for a while now and Google Wallet on my phone as well.
I do believe this will catch on, as more stores update their payment card readers. At the moment it's mostly fast food outlets and coffee shops that seem to have the NFC readers.
The integration with mobile devices will be crucial. At the moment, Google Wallet requires you to type your PIN before swiping your phone over the reader. This defeats the object of speed and simplicity somewhat. It really needs to be a Single Sign On with your phone PIN, so when the phone is unlocked, NFC transactions require no additional authorisation.
All fine as long as we get a choice not to use it. a mate of mine got one of these chips on his card and he did not want it, but got no choice in the matter. the only thing he can do apart from getting rid of the card itself is to get it so it needs a pin every time it is used.
it seems strange that we went with this chip and pin system so we can be more secure and now the banks are trying to force a system onto us which is less secure.
All fine as long as we get a choice not to use it. a mate of mine got one of these chips on his card and he did not want it, but got no choice in the matter. the only thing he can do apart from getting rid of the card itself is to get it so it needs a pin every time it is used.
it seems strange that we went with this chip and pin system so we can be more secure and now the banks are trying to force a system onto us which is less secure.
Don't you think your 'friend' was maybe taking it a bit to far?
He doesn't have to use it!! He could just use it as a normal card
I just tried my passport and my One X and it read it. I installed a NFC app and it says it can read RFID.
Wow. The app I downloaded reads the RFID chip in my passport and come up with some numbers and stuff, but asks for a key. Click on that and it asked for my passport number, DOB and expiry of the passport. Entered that and swiped it again and it came up with all the data on my passport, name nationality and even the photograph! :eek:
Just read the first couple of reviews on the new iPhone 5 and its surprised its first reviewers by NOT having NFC - Wonder if Apple see no future in NFC or Apple will get left behind as the rest of the world embraces NFC - We will just have to wait and see!
Don't you think your 'friend' was maybe taking it a bit to far?
He doesn't have to use it!! He could just use it as a normal card
What he is worried about and I agree with him on this is if he lost the card then it would be easy for someone to pick it up, take it to where ever they accept these things and use it.
No security until a certain amount of uses at £15 a time and I hear they are going to up the amount again.
I would do the same thing if one was forced onto me.
Just read the first couple of reviews on the new iPhone 5 and its surprised its first reviewers by NOT having NFC - Wonder if Apple see no future in NFC or Apple will get left behind as the rest of the world embraces NFC - We will just have to wait and see!
I thought the Iphone would have had NFc by now, since some countries use it a fair bit, I think it is only the UK where NFC have not really taken off.
What he is worried about and I agree with him on this is if he lost the card then it would be easy for someone to pick it up, take it to where ever they accept these things and use it.
No security until a certain amount of uses at £15 a time and I hear they are going to up the amount again.
I would do the same thing if one was forced onto me.
There is that risk but I believe as long as you report your card as stolen/lost to your bank then you would not be liable for any rogue charges.
I assume your friend does not carry cash in his wallet for the same reason?
I thought the Iphone would have had NFc by now, since some countries use it a fair bit, I think it is only the UK where NFC have not really taken off.
Can’t see why I would want it in phone to be honest – I understand that my debit card will eventually and that makes sense but can’t see why my phone would need it.
There is that risk but I believe as long as you report your card as stolen/lost to your bank then you would not be liable for any rogue charges.
If you notice it missing in time.
when I last lost my Debit card, i was lucky that I notice it within half a hour as I went to have a coffee with a mate and noticed it was not in my wallet. I knew where I left it, in one of those self service machines in Argos, when I went back it was gone and not be handed in.
I went to my bank and it was canceled.
but what if it was a NFC card and I did not go for a coffee after and went straight home, it could have been a few hours before I noticed. Plenty of time for who ever took it to buy a few things if it did not ask for my pin.
Because it is chip and pin, the chance of anyone getting money out of my account is pretty slim, sure it can be done, but not by your average opportunity thief
I assume your friend does not carry cash in his wallet for the same reason?
He carries some around, but not enough so if he loses the wallet which is a lot harder to do than a card, it will not affect him much.
I carry cash, I prefer cash to cards to be honest, I need cash for bread in our local bakery as they don't accept cards and for my milkman because they don't accept cards.
Can’t see why I would want it in phone to be honest – I understand that my debit card will eventually and that makes sense but can’t see why my phone would need it.
i don't want it in a debit card either. i certainly would not want it in a phone, I know it can be turned off, but still would not want it.
thankfully the phones I go for which is around the £150 mark don't have them and I doubt they will for a few years yet and also vodafone don't seem to bother with NFC anyway on their phones.
Strange that is mind you, do that mean that vodafone have them disabled via firmware on their phones?
i don't think myself that this NFc is going to come to much, it have taken far too long to catch on, look at chip and pin and how quick that came and yet NFC been around for years and still very few banks give the cards out.
Not sure how the payment system works, but I have to unlock my phone to get the NFC tags to register.
If your phone auto locks after a short while like mine, then I am guessing that anyone who pinches it/finds it will have to unlock the phone to use the NFC functionality.
Not sure how the payment system works, but I have to unlock my phone to get the NFC tags to register.
If your phone auto locks after a short while like mine, then I am guessing that anyone who pinches it/finds it will have to unlock the phone to use the NFC functionality.
I would say most people don't password lock their phones though
I would say most people don't password lock their phones though
I'm pretty sure it requires a button push to authorise, which is a bonus over the cards that do it and can just be scanned by touching next to the wallet.
However there's a very low limit on transactions like £15 and the retailer is liable for any unauthorised transactions used on their terminals, so even if a dodgy person used a certain device to scan cards the card company / bank would re-credit you and take the money from the retailer for allowing their terminal to be used to scan for unauthorised transactions.
What he is worried about and I agree with him on this is if he lost the card then it would be easy for someone to pick it up, take it to where ever they accept these things and use it.
No security until a certain amount of uses at £15 a time and I hear they are going to up the amount again.
I would do the same thing if one was forced onto me.
If you have lost your card and it happens they refund it no questions asked. So, what exactly is the issue here?
I would say most people don't password lock their phones though
If a person doesn't autolock their phone and it gets used illegally, I will find it very hard to feel sorry for them. Its a bit like leaving your front door open and hoping that no one goes in.
Personally I have a SIM lock and PIN lock and my phone locks after 2 minutes of non use. It can be a pain, but not half as bad as the consequences of someone getting access to everything I have on there.
the biggest risk I have on my phone is I can use the Zipcar app to drive away with a hire car. It has a password on the app, but even so, I do wonder if its an accident waiting to happen. Still, the alternative, the card (possibly also NFC), doesn't even have a password. Almost impossible to tell which car I had booked just from the card though.
edit: oh another one, just crying out for NFC usage. The Boris bikes use a key fob to let you take out a bike, again no password. So if you lose your key fob, you can be potentially billed for £300 for non-return of a bike.
(hmm.... * goes to play with Bike key fob and NFC tablet* )
I don't live in a big city so don't use my contactless card very often, but will always use it when I can, it just saves time.
I'm pretty sure all payment apps (Google Wallet does) will require a code to open it up, so it will be more secure to use NFC on a phone than a card.
My only concern is waving an expensive phone around as payment, but I guess most people are on their phone all the time anyway so it's not a big deal to them.
Just read the first couple of reviews on the new iPhone 5 and its surprised its first reviewers by NOT having NFC - Wonder if Apple see no future in NFC or Apple will get left behind as the rest of the world embraces NFC - We will just have to wait and see!
Some people think Apple are working on their own version, that will be incompatible with everyone else's.
I agree the new iPhone not having it is a surprise, and a set-back.
Can’t see why I would want it in phone to be honest – I understand that my debit card will eventually and that makes sense but can’t see why my phone would need it.
For me it should be more convenient, because I have my phone with me always regardless, and will hopefully reduce the number of cards I carry. For example, I currently carry a pre-paid bus card which I'd happily leave behind. A single phone can do the work of any number of cards. It's not limited to cash.
I talked about it being more secure earlier in the thread.
But then you lose the convenience. Having it in a phone is more convenient than having it in a card, and also more secure.
Some people think Apple are working on their own version, that will be incompatible with everyone else's.
I agree the new iPhone not having it is a surprise, and a set-back.
For me it should be more convenient, because I have my phone with me always regardless, and will hopefully reduce the number of cards I carry. For example, I currently carry a pre-paid bus card which I'd happily leave behind. A single phone can do the work of any number of cards. It's not limited to cash.
I talked about it being more secure earlier in the thread.
I’m the opposite – I’m more likely to have my wallet than my phone on me so the card is more convenient.
Also I can see banks starting to charge per transaction when it’s through your phone as well.
Comments
All fine as long as we get a choice not to use it. a mate of mine got one of these chips on his card and he did not want it, but got no choice in the matter. the only thing he can do apart from getting rid of the card itself is to get it so it needs a pin every time it is used.
it seems strange that we went with this chip and pin system so we can be more secure and now the banks are trying to force a system onto us which is less secure.
Don't you think your 'friend' was maybe taking it a bit to far?
He doesn't have to use it!! He could just use it as a normal card
I just tried my passport and my One X and it read it. I installed a NFC app and it says it can read RFID.
Wow. The app I downloaded reads the RFID chip in my passport and come up with some numbers and stuff, but asks for a key. Click on that and it asked for my passport number, DOB and expiry of the passport. Entered that and swiped it again and it came up with all the data on my passport, name nationality and even the photograph! :eek:
What he is worried about and I agree with him on this is if he lost the card then it would be easy for someone to pick it up, take it to where ever they accept these things and use it.
No security until a certain amount of uses at £15 a time and I hear they are going to up the amount again.
I would do the same thing if one was forced onto me.
I thought the Iphone would have had NFc by now, since some countries use it a fair bit, I think it is only the UK where NFC have not really taken off.
There is that risk but I believe as long as you report your card as stolen/lost to your bank then you would not be liable for any rogue charges.
I assume your friend does not carry cash in his wallet for the same reason?
Can’t see why I would want it in phone to be honest – I understand that my debit card will eventually and that makes sense but can’t see why my phone would need it.
If you notice it missing in time.
when I last lost my Debit card, i was lucky that I notice it within half a hour as I went to have a coffee with a mate and noticed it was not in my wallet. I knew where I left it, in one of those self service machines in Argos, when I went back it was gone and not be handed in.
I went to my bank and it was canceled.
but what if it was a NFC card and I did not go for a coffee after and went straight home, it could have been a few hours before I noticed. Plenty of time for who ever took it to buy a few things if it did not ask for my pin.
Because it is chip and pin, the chance of anyone getting money out of my account is pretty slim, sure it can be done, but not by your average opportunity thief
He carries some around, but not enough so if he loses the wallet which is a lot harder to do than a card, it will not affect him much.
I carry cash, I prefer cash to cards to be honest, I need cash for bread in our local bakery as they don't accept cards and for my milkman because they don't accept cards.
i don't want it in a debit card either. i certainly would not want it in a phone, I know it can be turned off, but still would not want it.
thankfully the phones I go for which is around the £150 mark don't have them and I doubt they will for a few years yet and also vodafone don't seem to bother with NFC anyway on their phones.
Strange that is mind you, do that mean that vodafone have them disabled via firmware on their phones?
i don't think myself that this NFc is going to come to much, it have taken far too long to catch on, look at chip and pin and how quick that came and yet NFC been around for years and still very few banks give the cards out.
If your phone auto locks after a short while like mine, then I am guessing that anyone who pinches it/finds it will have to unlock the phone to use the NFC functionality.
I would say most people don't password lock their phones though
I'm pretty sure it requires a button push to authorise, which is a bonus over the cards that do it and can just be scanned by touching next to the wallet.
However there's a very low limit on transactions like £15 and the retailer is liable for any unauthorised transactions used on their terminals, so even if a dodgy person used a certain device to scan cards the card company / bank would re-credit you and take the money from the retailer for allowing their terminal to be used to scan for unauthorised transactions.
If you have lost your card and it happens they refund it no questions asked. So, what exactly is the issue here?
If a person doesn't autolock their phone and it gets used illegally, I will find it very hard to feel sorry for them. Its a bit like leaving your front door open and hoping that no one goes in.
Personally I have a SIM lock and PIN lock and my phone locks after 2 minutes of non use. It can be a pain, but not half as bad as the consequences of someone getting access to everything I have on there.
edit: oh another one, just crying out for NFC usage. The Boris bikes use a key fob to let you take out a bike, again no password. So if you lose your key fob, you can be potentially billed for £300 for non-return of a bike.
(hmm.... * goes to play with Bike key fob and NFC tablet* )
I'm pretty sure all payment apps (Google Wallet does) will require a code to open it up, so it will be more secure to use NFC on a phone than a card.
My only concern is waving an expensive phone around as payment, but I guess most people are on their phone all the time anyway so it's not a big deal to them.
Some people think Apple are working on their own version, that will be incompatible with everyone else's.
I agree the new iPhone not having it is a surprise, and a set-back.
For me it should be more convenient, because I have my phone with me always regardless, and will hopefully reduce the number of cards I carry. For example, I currently carry a pre-paid bus card which I'd happily leave behind. A single phone can do the work of any number of cards. It's not limited to cash.
I talked about it being more secure earlier in the thread.
early days yet. But if you're with Orange, start here:
http://shop.orange.co.uk/mobile-phones/contactless/overview.jsp
I do, mine uses a pattern system that I draw on the screen. I been locking my phone for years,.
How long will they do that for? If you lose your normal card, they will not refund anything until after you report a card missing.
How would I prove that £14 worth of books that someone got with my card in Waterstones was not me?
I’m the opposite – I’m more likely to have my wallet than my phone on me so the card is more convenient.
Also I can see banks starting to charge per transaction when it’s through your phone as well.