perhaps I have read into it wrong but I suspect what Rooks is talking about is complacency. it happened back in the old series and we saw how that turned out. if they think it is in the bag as i suggested above then standards could start to slip by not keeping their eye on the ball.
perhaps I have read into it wrong but I suspect what Rooks is talking about is complacency. it happened back in the old series and we saw how that turned out. if they think it is in the bag as i suggested above then standards could start to slip by not keeping their eye on the ball.
Aye, thats exactly what I'm saying. Take Season 3 of Doctor Who as an example. As far as we know they've not pushed the boundaries, if anything they are treading over old ground. Familarity breeds contempt and if the audience have seen it all before then they will switch off. I haven't watched Doctor Who for a few weeks now and I haven't missed it. There's been nothing that compells me to tune in because I know that nothing will happen. I saw the trailer for next weeks show and it seems pretty much the same as most of the other episodes (monster, companions family, Doctor soundboarding etc). It happens to a lot of shows that find success because they become scared to do anything too daring in case it scares the audience away (and I'll give Lost as an example here, it's a show thats pretty good but so scared to give answers that it's driven away a lot of its audience).
The Doctor Who concept has amazing potential and its a real shame to see that potential wasted.
I really don't know why you continue to watch Doctor Who, as you clearly detest everything about it.
BLIND FANATISCISM of the most DESPICABLE kind. Its the people like you who have NO objectivity,stick their head in the sand + really don't care, that have merely stood by and helped the world become the HELL hole it is for so many of the population today!!!!
BLIND FANATISCISM of the most DESPICABLE kind. Its the people like you who have NO objectivity,stick their head in the sand + really don't care, that have merely stood by and helped the world become the HELL hole it is for so many of the population today!!!!
I have just been going through some of the posts here. I very much agree with what Black Guardian and Tegan Jovanka are expressing. If the episodes are poor then you have to say so for improvements to occur.
I would hate to see Dr Who cancelled but this could happen it may do well in this country because it is an institution, (I could be wrong) but to get the money back from producing such a show it has to be sold in other countries and if they start loosing interest then that could be a problem. Dr Who would be up against Heroes, BG and Lost. At the moment for me if I had to choose between watching an episode of Heroes and Dr Who I would watch Heroes because the quality is a lot better. I don’t mean the CGI but the writing and acting. Dr Who because of money constraints will never compete with other Sci Fi shows in the special effect department but it can with a story. All the show needs is a few good written scripts.
I accept what everyone is saying here and I can neither disagree or agree with it. I really am caught between 2 stools (too much beer again).
Being a husband and a daddy I tend not to be able to catch much tv nowadays and especially such programs as Heroes, BSG etc (normally something like ER or Wife Swap on instead) so Dr Who is all that I can comment on.
All I can say is that for 45 wonderful minutes a week, I can leave my boring 46 year old self behind and I can oohhh, ahhh, booo, cheer, laugh along with my boys.
If that is dumbing Dr Who down then, yes, I agree that it is being dumbed down.
Now I wouldn't dream of saying that everyone who criticises the production is wrong but, likewise, does that mean to say I am wrong in my view ? Am I to be hung, drawn and quartered for daring to say that I think there is absolutely nothing wrong with Dr Who as it is ?
After all - one man's meat is another man's poison.
P.S. I am sorry for continually bringing my boys into these topics, I know it must be boring the socks off you all now, but that is how it is with me, it's the only viewpoint I really have of it.
P.S. I am sorry for continually bringing my boys into these topics, I know it must be boring the socks off you all now, but that is how it is with me, it's the only viewpoint I really have of it.
No, its wonderful to hear that your children are watching it with you. Thats the sort of audience the production team are aiming for, not the nit-picking gents you sometimes get here.
As long as you don't take it too seriously, Doctor Who is wonderful as it is.
And I ask again - how can DNA travel down metal?
And I say again - who cares, its science fiction entertainment, and probably dumbed down for a good reason - so it appeals to more viewers than the 'serious' sci-fi shows.
I've not posted on the episode thread this week because on the whole I would be posting positive things and I'm feeling a little intimidated, even though from the poll I'm in the majority.
I will post negative comments episodes that I don't like (just don't get me started on The Long Game, the story in search of a plot!). Though even in the worst episodes I will recognise that there are positives, which is why I respect FM's like BG and AM who even when they don't like episodes will post positive comments about what they do like. I might not always agree with them, but the world would be a poorer place if we all thought the same.
For me I think that the overall standard has been better than last year so far, but there's been no excellent so far and there had been by this time last year.
I think of Doctor Who like an old insitution. The reason some fans are so protective and go over the top in their praise for it is because it has been around for 40+ years. Even people I know who don't watch it or even like it respect it.
Doctor Who IS an institution in Britain, and I think that will keep the BBC ratings up for a very long time. It is not a bad show, and while everybody can think of ways to improve on what Davies is delivering (I for one think that it is WAY too Earth-centric, as the TARDIS is a space ship that can go anywhere), people in the UK are probably not going to stop watching.
And I say again - who cares, its science fiction entertainment, and probably dumbed down for a good reason - so it appeals to more viewers than the 'serious' sci-fi shows.
Theres a difference being "dumbing down" and "being of mass appeal". I don't want Doctor Who to be full of techno-babble but I do want it to treat its audience with respect. If you invest 40 minutes into a show then you should want a decent, logical resolution. It doesn't matter if that resolution is of a "fantastical" nature providing there's been hints of it before. Too often the show resorts to "deus ex machina" style ending and that makes it feel as though the writers haven't thought about their scripts enough. Girl from the Fireplace is an example of a good ending. That last shot of the script was a clever payoff for the audience who'd been wondering why the robots were after Renette. A bad ending can be found in episodes like "Boomtown" where the Tardis suddenly gains a new ability never before hinted out to solve all the problems. I watched that and felt cheated.
Tardis suddenly gains a new ability never before hinted out to solve all the problems. I watched that and felt cheated.
Yes, I can understand how you may feel cheated but spare a thought for all those kids who went 'Wow !' - they didn't feel cheated.
There are episodes, like GitFP that appeal to us oldies more than the kids just like there are episodes aimed more at the kids. All my boys remember about that episode are the clockwork monsters, the actual story line went over their heads somewhat.
Fear Her was the one episode that I truly didn't like but my kids really enjoyed and if someone could come up with a 'scribble monster' toy then my two would be first in line for it.
I think what I'm trying to say is that it is nigh on impossible to please everyone, but the DW production team do a very good job at accommodating young and old alike.
May be if I didn't have kids, I would think differently, I don't know.
Theres a difference being "dumbing down" and "being of mass appeal". I don't want Doctor Who to be full of techno-babble but I do want it to treat its audience with respect. If you invest 40 minutes into a show then you should want a decent, logical resolution. It doesn't matter if that resolution is of a "fantastical" nature providing there's been hints of it before. Too often the show resorts to "deus ex machina" style ending and that makes it feel as though the writers haven't thought about their scripts enough. Girl from the Fireplace is an example of a good ending. That last shot of the script was a clever payoff for the audience who'd been wondering why the robots were after Renette. A bad ending can be found in episodes like "Boomtown" where the Tardis suddenly gains a new ability never before hinted out to solve all the problems. I watched that and felt cheated.
The ending to "New Earth" -- with the Doctor randomly mixing a bunch of chemicals together and they instantly cure people ridden with all the diseases in the universe -- is the dumbest resolution to any show I have ever seen. That was a Davies script. When people go on about how brilliant Davies is, just point out to them New Earth. Which isn't to say that Davies hasn't done very good work, but a man lauded as one of the best TV writers in Britain ought not to fall below a certain standard, I would think.
The ending to "New Earth" -- with the Doctor randomly mixing a bunch of chemicals together and they instantly cure people ridden with all the diseases in the universe -- is the dumbest resolution to any show I have ever seen.
Doomsday would give it a run for the money, where essentially pulling a big lever made the monsters go away. But I concur with your point.
Doomsday would give it a run for the money, where essentially pulling a big lever made the monsters go away. But I concur with your point.
Well, at least in Doomsday we get a technobabble explanation for why pulling the lever will be efficacious, and since the physics was all make-up anyway, who are we to say pulling the lever wouldn't do the job? What really bothers me about the mixing of the medicines together and the instantaneous cures is that unlike physics (where it is usually possible to make stuff up in science fiction, because very few people know much about physics) WE all KNOW enough about how medicine works to know that you can't just slop different medicines together in buckets and splash them on people to make people better -- and instantly better at that. I mean, 4-year-old children know that.
I'll accept that but don't you think it's possible to appeal to children without talking down to them?
No, you certainly don't have to talk down to children, far from it - perhaps the worst thing you can do.
But .... I just can't see, and I do apologise if I'm missing the point completely, where DW does 'talk down' to anyone.
I'm sorry, I'm struggling here a little. I think, perhaps, I'm the wrong guy to talk about it because I watch it in my own little environment.
I do like to, and normally do, see both sides of any argument but I'm finding it hard to imagine watching DW without kids. Even when I watch it again when the Kray Twins are in bed I'm still in 'child mode', I'm surrounded by toy daleks and cybermen (do you know how much they hurt when you tread on them ?) and I just don't need everything explaining and I let it all wash over me.
Aye, thats exactly what I'm saying. Take Season 3 of Doctor Who as an example. As far as we know they've not pushed the boundaries, if anything they are treading over old ground. Familarity breeds contempt and if the audience have seen it all before then they will switch off. I haven't watched Doctor Who for a few weeks now and I haven't missed it. There's been nothing that compells me to tune in because I know that nothing will happen. I saw the trailer for next weeks show and it seems pretty much the same as most of the other episodes (monster, companions family, Doctor soundboarding etc). It happens to a lot of shows that find success because they become scared to do anything too daring in case it scares the audience away (and I'll give Lost as an example here, it's a show thats pretty good but so scared to give answers that it's driven away a lot of its audience).
The Doctor Who concept has amazing potential and its a real shame to see that potential wasted.
Hey Rooks. I understand what you mean now and agree with that
I've not posted on the episode thread this week because on the whole I would be posting positive things and I'm feeling a little intimidated, even though from the poll I'm in the majority.
I will post negative comments episodes that I don't like (just don't get me started on The Long Game, the story in search of a plot!). Though even in the worst episodes I will recognise that there are positives, which is why I respect FM's like BG and AM who even when they don't like episodes will post positive comments about what they do like. I might not always agree with them, but the world would be a poorer place if we all thought the same.
For me I think that the overall standard has been better than last year so far, but there's been no excellent so far and there had been by this time last year.
Please post what you like and don't feel intimidated. The forum is for people and there will be a huge range of opinions. Your opinions are just as important as other peoples. I know sometimes if your opinion differs from others who seem to band together on here you wonder whether you are going to be attacked for it. However most on here even if they don't agree with you will respect your opinions. If you enjoyed the last episode thats fantatic and you know sometimes I enjoy an episode I know maybe hasn't been very good. 'Age of Ghosts' is my one which people hated on here but I have to say I enjoyed.
Never be afraid to have your say.
I'm in a similar position to fatnbaldy. I watch it with my 13 year old daughter and partner. We watch it as a family (don't watch much as a family tbh) and we all enjoy it immensely.
I don't care about it being "dumbed down" for the kiddies as I totally enjoy watching it - and I'm 32! My daughter is a huge DW fan since RTD brought it back to the screen.
I'm in a similar position to fatnbaldy. I watch it with my 13 year old daughter and partner. We watch it as a family (don't watch much as a family tbh) and we all enjoy it immensely.
I don't care about it being "dumbed down" for the kiddies as I totally enjoy watching it - and I'm 32! My daughter is a huge DW fan since RTD brought it back to the screen.
That's wonderful and brings back so many memories of when I was little. Families don't sit together any more, even to watch TV.
Doctor Who is a family show with emphasis on the kids, always has been, always will be.
All I'm trying to say is, when you think that the writing's poor or they've made a change you don't like, try looking at the episode from a young fan's point-of-view, and maybe, just maybe, you'll see where they're coming from...
thoughts?
I don't understand why script writers believe they can seriously write plots with so much stupidity. Kids may require a 'lighter' type of TV program, but they're not that stupid or gullible.
Remember the first new series with Christopher Eccleston? The kids loved that series big time, but the quality was so much better than the idiotic drivel that the BBC currently churn out.
After running through a couple of episodes of series 1 to compare, it was agreed all round that the quality has hit rock bottom - This opinion was not just from adults but from the kids themselves.... Doctor Who is now off the menu in our household - the kids don't want to watch it....... Shame...:(
Seriously - did you honestly just join a forum and find a section devoted to Doctor Who then resurrect a four year old thread just to tell us that you won't watch the show?
Seriously - did you honestly just join a forum and find a section devoted to Doctor Who then resurrect a four year old thread just to tell us that you won't watch the show?
Comments
I agree with that
Aye, thats exactly what I'm saying. Take Season 3 of Doctor Who as an example. As far as we know they've not pushed the boundaries, if anything they are treading over old ground. Familarity breeds contempt and if the audience have seen it all before then they will switch off. I haven't watched Doctor Who for a few weeks now and I haven't missed it. There's been nothing that compells me to tune in because I know that nothing will happen. I saw the trailer for next weeks show and it seems pretty much the same as most of the other episodes (monster, companions family, Doctor soundboarding etc). It happens to a lot of shows that find success because they become scared to do anything too daring in case it scares the audience away (and I'll give Lost as an example here, it's a show thats pretty good but so scared to give answers that it's driven away a lot of its audience).
The Doctor Who concept has amazing potential and its a real shame to see that potential wasted.
what's that all about?
I would hate to see Dr Who cancelled but this could happen it may do well in this country because it is an institution, (I could be wrong) but to get the money back from producing such a show it has to be sold in other countries and if they start loosing interest then that could be a problem. Dr Who would be up against Heroes, BG and Lost. At the moment for me if I had to choose between watching an episode of Heroes and Dr Who I would watch Heroes because the quality is a lot better. I don’t mean the CGI but the writing and acting. Dr Who because of money constraints will never compete with other Sci Fi shows in the special effect department but it can with a story. All the show needs is a few good written scripts.
Being a husband and a daddy I tend not to be able to catch much tv nowadays and especially such programs as Heroes, BSG etc (normally something like ER or Wife Swap on instead) so Dr Who is all that I can comment on.
All I can say is that for 45 wonderful minutes a week, I can leave my boring 46 year old self behind and I can oohhh, ahhh, booo, cheer, laugh along with my boys.
If that is dumbing Dr Who down then, yes, I agree that it is being dumbed down.
Now I wouldn't dream of saying that everyone who criticises the production is wrong but, likewise, does that mean to say I am wrong in my view ? Am I to be hung, drawn and quartered for daring to say that I think there is absolutely nothing wrong with Dr Who as it is ?
After all - one man's meat is another man's poison.
P.S. I am sorry for continually bringing my boys into these topics, I know it must be boring the socks off you all now, but that is how it is with me, it's the only viewpoint I really have of it.
No, its wonderful to hear that your children are watching it with you. Thats the sort of audience the production team are aiming for, not the nit-picking gents you sometimes get here.
As long as you don't take it too seriously, Doctor Who is wonderful as it is.
And I ask again - how can DNA travel down metal?
And I say again - who cares, its science fiction entertainment, and probably dumbed down for a good reason - so it appeals to more viewers than the 'serious' sci-fi shows.
I will post negative comments episodes that I don't like (just don't get me started on The Long Game, the story in search of a plot!). Though even in the worst episodes I will recognise that there are positives, which is why I respect FM's like BG and AM who even when they don't like episodes will post positive comments about what they do like. I might not always agree with them, but the world would be a poorer place if we all thought the same.
For me I think that the overall standard has been better than last year so far, but there's been no excellent so far and there had been by this time last year.
Doctor Who IS an institution in Britain, and I think that will keep the BBC ratings up for a very long time. It is not a bad show, and while everybody can think of ways to improve on what Davies is delivering (I for one think that it is WAY too Earth-centric, as the TARDIS is a space ship that can go anywhere), people in the UK are probably not going to stop watching.
Theres a difference being "dumbing down" and "being of mass appeal". I don't want Doctor Who to be full of techno-babble but I do want it to treat its audience with respect. If you invest 40 minutes into a show then you should want a decent, logical resolution. It doesn't matter if that resolution is of a "fantastical" nature providing there's been hints of it before. Too often the show resorts to "deus ex machina" style ending and that makes it feel as though the writers haven't thought about their scripts enough. Girl from the Fireplace is an example of a good ending. That last shot of the script was a clever payoff for the audience who'd been wondering why the robots were after Renette. A bad ending can be found in episodes like "Boomtown" where the Tardis suddenly gains a new ability never before hinted out to solve all the problems. I watched that and felt cheated.
Yes, I can understand how you may feel cheated but spare a thought for all those kids who went 'Wow !' - they didn't feel cheated.
There are episodes, like GitFP that appeal to us oldies more than the kids just like there are episodes aimed more at the kids. All my boys remember about that episode are the clockwork monsters, the actual story line went over their heads somewhat.
Fear Her was the one episode that I truly didn't like but my kids really enjoyed and if someone could come up with a 'scribble monster' toy then my two would be first in line for it.
I think what I'm trying to say is that it is nigh on impossible to please everyone, but the DW production team do a very good job at accommodating young and old alike.
May be if I didn't have kids, I would think differently, I don't know.
The ending to "New Earth" -- with the Doctor randomly mixing a bunch of chemicals together and they instantly cure people ridden with all the diseases in the universe -- is the dumbest resolution to any show I have ever seen. That was a Davies script. When people go on about how brilliant Davies is, just point out to them New Earth. Which isn't to say that Davies hasn't done very good work, but a man lauded as one of the best TV writers in Britain ought not to fall below a certain standard, I would think.
I'll accept that but don't you think it's possible to appeal to children without talking down to them?
The series has just got started, wait nearer the end when torchwood comes into doctor who even more
Well, at least in Doomsday we get a technobabble explanation for why pulling the lever will be efficacious, and since the physics was all make-up anyway, who are we to say pulling the lever wouldn't do the job?
No, you certainly don't have to talk down to children, far from it - perhaps the worst thing you can do.
But .... I just can't see, and I do apologise if I'm missing the point completely, where DW does 'talk down' to anyone.
I'm sorry, I'm struggling here a little. I think, perhaps, I'm the wrong guy to talk about it because I watch it in my own little environment.
I do like to, and normally do, see both sides of any argument but I'm finding it hard to imagine watching DW without kids. Even when I watch it again when the Kray Twins are in bed I'm still in 'child mode', I'm surrounded by toy daleks and cybermen (do you know how much they hurt when you tread on them ?) and I just don't need everything explaining and I let it all wash over me.
Hope that makes sense, bit of a ramble I know !
Hey Rooks. I understand what you mean now and agree with that
Please post what you like and don't feel intimidated. The forum is for people and there will be a huge range of opinions. Your opinions are just as important as other peoples. I know sometimes if your opinion differs from others who seem to band together on here you wonder whether you are going to be attacked for it. However most on here even if they don't agree with you will respect your opinions. If you enjoyed the last episode thats fantatic and you know sometimes I enjoy an episode I know maybe hasn't been very good. 'Age of Ghosts' is my one which people hated on here but I have to say I enjoyed.
Never be afraid to have your say.
I don't care about it being "dumbed down" for the kiddies as I totally enjoy watching it - and I'm 32! My daughter is a huge DW fan since RTD brought it back to the screen.
That's wonderful and brings back so many memories of when I was little. Families don't sit together any more, even to watch TV.
I don't understand why script writers believe they can seriously write plots with so much stupidity. Kids may require a 'lighter' type of TV program, but they're not that stupid or gullible.
Remember the first new series with Christopher Eccleston? The kids loved that series big time, but the quality was so much better than the idiotic drivel that the BBC currently churn out.
After running through a couple of episodes of series 1 to compare, it was agreed all round that the quality has hit rock bottom - This opinion was not just from adults but from the kids themselves.... Doctor Who is now off the menu in our household - the kids don't want to watch it....... Shame...:(
Some people, eh :rolleyes:
Very bizarre.
What was that all about 'f1lby'??