it would be interesting if there was something more to it. I felt quite sorry for Thomas tonight and i think it would be interesting if Jimmy did have feelings for him.
Also did i mishear it, or did Thomas say to Jimmy that he loved him when they were in the servants hall together? would that not have made Jimmy a little bit suspicious?
I agree I think there's more to it and yes Thomas did did say he loved him.
There's something this isn't quite right in the situation between Thomas and Jimmy?!
And why is Miss O'Brien kind of impling to her nephew that if he hadn't interupted them that Jimmy may possible have responsed?!
Does she have a feeling about Jimmy??
And is there another reason as into why he really left his previous job?
Can't believe it's the last episode of the current series next week.
It's goes far too quickly and it feels shorted than the last series for some reason.
Can't even begin to imagine what the SL will be for the christmas special??
I am inclined to take the Thomas situation at face value. He had been being a sex pest to Jimmy for quite some time. Jimmy was irritated with it and O'Brien seized on that, to relay false information to Thomas. :mad:
Brilliantly acted by Rob James Collier tonight. And Ed Speleers too. You really got a sense of the lonely Thomas behind all the scheming that we have seen before. If you recall the frist series he seems when younger to have had several liaisons before he was rejected then, and he does not seem to have had much action since.
He thinks he sees signals but he is apparently wrong. The actor faultlessly portrayed a remarkably self aware character who was driven to risk all and may well lose everything this week. All series we have had this moroseness but the character was transformed in this desperate and futile liaison. It was the fate of many gay men then.
After six episodes in prison, Bates's return was very low key. Would they really not have sorted things with Thomas beforehand?
I like the downstairs shenanigans. Everyone has mixed motives which makes it a very tangled web indeed. I cannot believe Carson would allow his lordship to be tended to by a gay man though. Thomas would be out on his ear by morning. But it makes for a good storyline. Well acted too,
Branson's brother was, indeed, a plot device. And a shortlived one. I did like Branson pointing out how much Sybil loved her father and how his participation in the christening would have meant the world to her.
I think if I were Matthew I'd be out of there (with the Swire money). Even Mary's realising that the past is another country we don't want to revisit. And that's saying something.
The newspaper editor is rather nice, isn't he? Good casting.
Ethel - is this plotline lining up Isobel's exit? Having everyone plotting against her made her more isolated than ever. Ethel will obviously depart but where does that leave Iosbel?
Baby Sybil is impossibly cute. Quite right - that baby has very good genes. I would have liked to have seen Cora with the baby but it seems not to be....
Poor old Murray gets criticised whatever he does. I like this character now, and Jonathan Coy is a very good character actor.
Next week preview - Rose looks like she'll shake things up somewhat. Good. We need a wild child to show up we're in the 20s. Time to move on properly.
I hated what happened to Thomas tonight. He's an unpleasant character in many ways, but he didn't deserve that and I felt terribly sorry for him. I thought that he might take his life rather than face the consequences, but then Mr Carson seemed, whilst not sympathetic, certainly a lot less outraged than I had expected, so I thought Thomas might be okay.
Looking at the preview for next week, it seems not. I hope O'Brien gets her comeuppance.
"By the 1920's, the practice of wearing mourning dress began to subside. However, heavily Catholic countries still adhered to the practice as did folks of the older generation."
That could be why they're wearing other colours too as it wasn't so strict by then.
Thomas has always been nasty but you feel sorry for him. At least you can understand his reasons, I will be sad if he leaves, it won't be the same without him.
O Brien is just nasty, she doesn't have any redeeming features, I would really like to see the character go.
I really don't like smug Bates anymore either, the Thomas plot is just to get rid of him so he can get his job back.
The newspaper editor is rather nice, isn't he? Good casting.
I like the way Edith's role has developed in the last couple of episodes. She's always been my favourite character. However, regarding her newspaper editor, I fear that
he may be married
and perhaps this would leave her free for
a reunion with Lord Strallan in the Christmas special. But he'd have to grovel - a lot.
As much as I love Downton I have to say, just like the chummy relationship between masters and servants, the handling of Thomas's sexuality is pure modern day wishful thinking. It's a fanciful notion that someone like Thomas would've said - when challenged like he was by Mr Carson -"Well there's no law against hoping" (ie to commit a criminal act). From series one we've been given the impression that Thomas's sexuality was known about among his co-workers (certainly O'Brien) and yet it was seemingly never an issue (until now). Just as no-one wanted the stigma of associating with a known prostitute like Ethel, far more realistic would be similar treatment for a 'known homosexual' like Thomas. His fondling of and declarations of love towards Jimmy surely would've been the last things someone in Thomas's position would've risked with a man he'd had no concrete signals from ... let alone sneaking into Jimmy's bed to snog him while he slept!
I don't think you can say "officially". That's your opinion, nothing more. What's "official" about that?
I do think that the Crawleys have become less sympathetic. Perhaps it's because the world they live in is more recognisable to us that their attitudes seem out of kilter.
I'd like Mary and Matthew to take more of a central part. Robert, Cora and Violet seem rather irrelevant as they cling on to a world that is leaving them behind.
That's all I have to say.................... I think it has suffered from Twin Peaks-syndrome. The first season was good and the following failed to capture that magic.
How ever will you change your username to ex-downtonfan? A shame you stopped enjoying it though.......but 10m+ viewers have stuck with it - I am expecting Bafta awards to be forthcoming.
Thomas has always been nasty but you feel sorry for him. At least you can understand his reasons, I will be sad if he leaves, it won't be the same without him.
O Brien is just nasty, she doesn't have any redeeming features, I would really like to see the character go.
I really don't like smug Bates anymore either, the Thomas plot is just to get rid of him so he can get his job back.
I disagree - I think O'Brien has shown moments of compassion. In fact, I think she was pretty hurt and confused by Thomas' nastiness when she asked for his help training up her nephew - especially after all she'd done for him. He only has himself to blame for incurring O'Brien's wrath...
As much as I love Downton I have to say, just like the chummy relationship between masters and servants, the handling of Thomas's sexuality is pure modern day wishful thinking. It's a fanciful notion that someone like Thomas would've said - when challenged like he was by Mr Carson -"Well there's no law against hoping" (ie to commit a criminal act). From series one we've been given the impression that Thomas's sexuality was known about among his co-workers (certainly O'Brien) and yet it was seemingly never an issue (until now). Just as no-one wanted the stigma of associating with a known prostitute like Ethel, far more realistic would be similar treatment for a 'known homosexual' like Thomas. His fondling of and declarations of love towards Jimmy surely would've been the last things someone in Thomas's position would've risked with a man he'd had no concrete signals from ... let alone sneaking into Jimmy's bed to snog him while he slept!
I know. It wouldn't have happened like that and no way would O'Brien have spoken of it as she did. I've decided to suspend disbelief for the sake of the drama.
The actor playing Tom is excellent and manages to make you feel sorry for him. A lonely life but at least it portrays how times change for the better. Even when I was young things were hard for gay people.
Has it ever been explained what went wrong between O'Brien and Thomas? Did I miss something? They've spent this whole season plotting against each other when previously they were shown to be very close friends.
I know. It wouldn't have happened like that and no way would O'Brien have spoken of it as she did. I've decided to suspend disbelief for the sake of the drama.
The actor playing Tom is excellent and manages to make you feel sorry for him. A lonely life but at least it portrays how times change for the better. Even when I was young things were hard for gay people.
Agreed..suspension of disbelief (and historical accuracy) is a must for Downton fans! Especially around the springing Bates out of jail story line...i'm still struggling to make sense of how that actually came about and no doubt it'll never be mentioned again!
I know. It wouldn't have happened like that and no way would O'Brien have spoken of it as she did. I've decided to suspend disbelief for the sake of the drama.
The actor playing Tom is excellent and manages to make you feel sorry for him. A lonely life but at least it portrays how times change for the better. Even when I was young things were hard for gay people.
Yes, I think the familiarity with the characters is overwhelming the realism of the plots. I know there's a [rather hysterical] school of thought that actors/actresses should never move on because it somehow "betrays" the fans but I think the programme needs some of its characters to move on.
The Thomas storyline is unrealistic but in giving the plot to a very familiar character we are allowed to see his side of the story. But he would indeed be shown the door in those unenlightened times. I really don't see, even suspending disbelief, that he would be allowed to wait on his lordship as a valet or even be a footman, sharing a room with another and potentially waiting on guests.
Has it ever been explained what went wrong between O'Brien and Thomas? Did I miss something? They've spent this whole season plotting against each other when previously they were shown to be very close friends.
I remember her saying something about him having gone too far over something , like she hasn't.
Anyway I agree with the actor playing Thomas, and after I hated him for leaving Corrie too. Well done.:)
I don't think you can say "officially". That's your opinion, nothing more. What's "official" about that?
I do think that the Crawleys have become less sympathetic. Perhaps it's because the world they live in is more recognisable to us that their attitudes seem out of kilter.
I'd like Mary and Matthew to take more of a central part. Robert, Cora and Violet seem rather irrelevant as they cling on to a world that is leaving them behind.
In a way they ARE more irrelevant, because the world was changing so fast at that time, but their lesser importance is part of the story, of how they have to come to terms with a world that has changed dramatically. Everyone seems annoyed with Robert because he appears to be stuck in the past, but I imagine that for people like him whose whole life was mapped out from the day they were born, the new way of things was very unsettling, all the certainties of their way of life and the things they thought most important were gradually dying away. Robert's way of dealing with it all is to try to control what's happening to the estate and to his family, not seeing that in many ways his former control over everything and everyone - a generally benevolent control, for the most part - has gone.
Robert has a lot of worries and trials. Just think about it - his wife's money is gone due to his bad investment, Mary's now married to the interfering (in Robert's eyes) Matthew, Edith has got a job as a journalist of all things, Sybil is dead and it might have been partly his fault, his only grandchild is baptised into the Catholic faith which he distrusts, his former chauffeur is now his son-in-law and an Irish Marxist who's been involved in terrorist activity, Matthew's mother is employing an ex-prostitute in her house where Robert's family visit, his valet is gay (no, he doesn't know it yet, but there you go) ... poor Robert, it's just one darned thing after another.
Comments
I agree I think there's more to it and yes Thomas did did say he loved him.
So happy that I decided to watch the repeats of S1 and S2 on ITV3 before Series 3 started, I now love Downton!
He thinks he sees signals but he is apparently wrong. The actor faultlessly portrayed a remarkably self aware character who was driven to risk all and may well lose everything this week. All series we have had this moroseness but the character was transformed in this desperate and futile liaison. It was the fate of many gay men then.
Some great stuff in a consistently fine episode.
Kev
I thought the standard lamp in Thomas's room was a bit fancy for the servant's quarters.
After six episodes in prison, Bates's return was very low key. Would they really not have sorted things with Thomas beforehand?
I like the downstairs shenanigans. Everyone has mixed motives which makes it a very tangled web indeed. I cannot believe Carson would allow his lordship to be tended to by a gay man though. Thomas would be out on his ear by morning. But it makes for a good storyline. Well acted too,
Branson's brother was, indeed, a plot device. And a shortlived one. I did like Branson pointing out how much Sybil loved her father and how his participation in the christening would have meant the world to her.
I think if I were Matthew I'd be out of there (with the Swire money). Even Mary's realising that the past is another country we don't want to revisit. And that's saying something.
The newspaper editor is rather nice, isn't he? Good casting.
Ethel - is this plotline lining up Isobel's exit? Having everyone plotting against her made her more isolated than ever. Ethel will obviously depart but where does that leave Iosbel?
Baby Sybil is impossibly cute. Quite right - that baby has very good genes. I would have liked to have seen Cora with the baby but it seems not to be....
Poor old Murray gets criticised whatever he does. I like this character now, and Jonathan Coy is a very good character actor.
Next week preview - Rose looks like she'll shake things up somewhat. Good. We need a wild child to show up we're in the 20s. Time to move on properly.
Not all men have chest hair do they?
Exactly what I thought! I always rather fancied Michael Palin.
Looking at the preview for next week, it seems not. I hope O'Brien gets her comeuppance.
And this is from it
"By the 1920's, the practice of wearing mourning dress began to subside. However, heavily Catholic countries still adhered to the practice as did folks of the older generation."
That could be why they're wearing other colours too as it wasn't so strict by then.
O Brien is just nasty, she doesn't have any redeeming features, I would really like to see the character go.
I really don't like smug Bates anymore either, the Thomas plot is just to get rid of him so he can get his job back.
I like the way Edith's role has developed in the last couple of episodes. She's always been my favourite character. However, regarding her newspaper editor, I fear that
and perhaps this would leave her free for
That's all I have to say. I think it has suffered from Twin Peaks-syndrome. The first season was good and the following failed to capture that magic.
It's eight episodes plus the Christmas special. Next week will be the eighth.
I don't think you can say "officially". That's your opinion, nothing more. What's "official" about that?
I do think that the Crawleys have become less sympathetic. Perhaps it's because the world they live in is more recognisable to us that their attitudes seem out of kilter.
I'd like Mary and Matthew to take more of a central part. Robert, Cora and Violet seem rather irrelevant as they cling on to a world that is leaving them behind.
How ever will you change your username to ex-downtonfan? A shame you stopped enjoying it though.......but 10m+ viewers have stuck with it - I am expecting Bafta awards to be forthcoming.
I disagree - I think O'Brien has shown moments of compassion. In fact, I think she was pretty hurt and confused by Thomas' nastiness when she asked for his help training up her nephew - especially after all she'd done for him. He only has himself to blame for incurring O'Brien's wrath...
I know. It wouldn't have happened like that and no way would O'Brien have spoken of it as she did. I've decided to suspend disbelief for the sake of the drama.
The actor playing Tom is excellent and manages to make you feel sorry for him. A lonely life but at least it portrays how times change for the better. Even when I was young things were hard for gay people.
Agreed..suspension of disbelief (and historical accuracy) is a must for Downton fans! Especially around the springing Bates out of jail story line...i'm still struggling to make sense of how that actually came about and no doubt it'll never be mentioned again!
Yes, I think the familiarity with the characters is overwhelming the realism of the plots. I know there's a [rather hysterical] school of thought that actors/actresses should never move on because it somehow "betrays" the fans but I think the programme needs some of its characters to move on.
The Thomas storyline is unrealistic but in giving the plot to a very familiar character we are allowed to see his side of the story. But he would indeed be shown the door in those unenlightened times. I really don't see, even suspending disbelief, that he would be allowed to wait on his lordship as a valet or even be a footman, sharing a room with another and potentially waiting on guests.
I remember her saying something about him having gone too far over something , like she hasn't.
Anyway I agree with the actor playing Thomas, and after I hated him for leaving Corrie too. Well done.:)
Robert has a lot of worries and trials. Just think about it - his wife's money is gone due to his bad investment, Mary's now married to the interfering (in Robert's eyes) Matthew, Edith has got a job as a journalist of all things, Sybil is dead and it might have been partly his fault, his only grandchild is baptised into the Catholic faith which he distrusts, his former chauffeur is now his son-in-law and an Irish Marxist who's been involved in terrorist activity, Matthew's mother is employing an ex-prostitute in her house where Robert's family visit, his valet is gay (no, he doesn't know it yet, but there you go) ... poor Robert, it's just one darned thing after another.