Tricky situation with friend and money
blueisthecolour
Posts: 20,127 Forum Member
✭✭✭
I have a good friend that i've known since we were kids. Our families are now friends as well so I see him more as a brother than a friend. In the last year or so though I've felt as though there has been a lot of tension building over money; mainly that he seems to deliberately trying to exploit those around him. Not in a serious way, more in that it he's always trying to make a few quid here and there out of everyone - avoiding buying rounds or paying his fair share when you split bills, borrowing money and then hoping you forget about it; that sort of thing.
It doesn't add up to much and he seems to do it to everyone (including his brother) but it just really annoys me. The worse thing is that i've change around him to originally being generous with money and not caring who spent what or stuff to now watching every penny to make sure he's not 'cheating me'.
He never used to be like this, in fact he's always earned more than me and in the past has been occasionally generous. However it seems like as his income has gone up he has become more and more concerned with how much he's spending and trying to save money at every point. Despite taking home £70k last year he now lives in a run down flat owned by an aging relative whom he pays a small rent to. He openly talks to me about other friends whom he is able to take advantage off in terms of getting free drinks or never paying back money he owes. He seems almost proud of it in a 'greed is good' kind of way.
I'm really not sure what to do. Other than the money situation we get on great and I would hate to lose his friendship. He doesn't actually take any money off me but that only because I am constantly monitoring what he owes me and that he's paying his fair share. I bring the topic up with him on an almost constant basis but he just seems to be getting more and more angry with me moaning at him. I'm worried that either I give up caring about him taking advantage or we're going to end up having a serious fall out.
Any good advice welcome. Please bear in mind that I see him more as family than a friend. Thanks
It doesn't add up to much and he seems to do it to everyone (including his brother) but it just really annoys me. The worse thing is that i've change around him to originally being generous with money and not caring who spent what or stuff to now watching every penny to make sure he's not 'cheating me'.
He never used to be like this, in fact he's always earned more than me and in the past has been occasionally generous. However it seems like as his income has gone up he has become more and more concerned with how much he's spending and trying to save money at every point. Despite taking home £70k last year he now lives in a run down flat owned by an aging relative whom he pays a small rent to. He openly talks to me about other friends whom he is able to take advantage off in terms of getting free drinks or never paying back money he owes. He seems almost proud of it in a 'greed is good' kind of way.
I'm really not sure what to do. Other than the money situation we get on great and I would hate to lose his friendship. He doesn't actually take any money off me but that only because I am constantly monitoring what he owes me and that he's paying his fair share. I bring the topic up with him on an almost constant basis but he just seems to be getting more and more angry with me moaning at him. I'm worried that either I give up caring about him taking advantage or we're going to end up having a serious fall out.
Any good advice welcome. Please bear in mind that I see him more as family than a friend. Thanks
0
Comments
I don't know for an absolute fact but it's highly unlikely. He's made a few large purchases recently (car, holiday) and has been telling me about some large investment plans he has.
He does gamble a lot but he seems to have ridiculously good luck - I know that a gambler will tell you about his winnings and not his losses but he would have to be losing a lot to come close to what he's won.
Snipped
Blue, what are his social relationships like these days? Have you seen a change? Does he have a partner/love interest? ( Can he let go in relationships, is generous spirited?) Also how old is he, because this kind of thing can be actually a sign of MH issues ( not just OCD) , if he has changed.
I don't think this is say coke or gambling and it's obv not poverty! Sounds like he is getting some kicks from the control and it's a kind of fixation. ( OTOH I see some people are just born/develop that way!)
I got the impression he wasn't always this bad but you are noticing it more ( that happens and it starts to grate as you notice every instance - I have known some people like this, I don't like it, but if they have loads of other good qualities I just make sure eg. the round buying is fair when we are in groups and I don't loan cash. Was he borrowing £ from you hoping that you'd lose track and not ask for it back? strange he is asking for loans as he doesn't sound strapped. Does he have multiple big loans to service? )
here's one of many examples of why it can mean something else.
http://www.everydayhealth.com/news/are-you-sensibly-frugal-mentally-ill/
and on the incurable leech
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/spycatcher/201301/are-you-being-manipulated-social-puppeteer
Yes, this is exactly what it seems like. He doesn't hide the fact that he's doing it - he's very open.
I'd say that he has become somewhat less sociable over the last couple of years, but then I think that's just us no longer being in our 20s (now early 30s). He has a newish girlfriend who earns very little so I'm guessing that he is paying for the bulk of what they do - never asked. His immediate family also has a lot of money problems which he has had to bail out in the past (we're talking thousands) but now refuses to give anything. So it's not like he's always been this scrooge figure and I do understand his point of view when it comes to money.
I just really have this issue of him not paying his fair share with me. Because we are constantly doing things together there's a lot of booking stuff upfront - which I tend to do because i'm more organized. So he's just constantly owing me money for that. Also he has a habit of never having cash on him so that i'm forced to pay for stuff.
You know, it's not that serious - I just find it frustrating and was hoping for some advice on how to engage with him on it. Maybe I just let it slide and accept that every now and again i'm going to be £50 of so down.
There are professional gamblers who make a living out of it. It doesn't even require that much effort to beat the odds and he does put a lot of research into what he's betting on. Like I said, I don't know for sure but I know what he's won (because he tells me about the bets before putting them on) and it comes to about £5k this year so he would have to have lost £1k a month on bets - which from my knowledge of his habits is very unlikely.
Anyway, I do think you should avoid raising the topic yourself apart from the occasional "it's your round" - don't get involved in what he's doing to others, but be aware of it and don't let him do that to you. If he brags about it, just mention you don't think it's a decent way to behave and move the topic on quickly.
If it's that bad, and others notice, he will stop getting invited to places if he keeps making others cough up for him, indirectly or not.
As I said in my OP, I raise it with him constantly - sometimes jokingly and sometime not so jokingly. He usually either laughs it off or ignores me. He's very open about what he's doing - his attitude is that if I don't chase him then it's my own problem.
Ok so you have told him how you feel "unjokingly" and he's not really interested so there are only two choices left....
a) either ask him to pay you in advance/don't book him in without this
b) or just accept the way he is because you don't want choice a).
He sounds greedy and seflfish and not someone I would value as a friend.
Alternatively start to ask him for money and see what he says. If he refuses, just remember this the next time he comes begging.
Hmm. It depends how strongly you feel about it. If you're at your wits end with him and his attitude is getting you down, maybe you need to create some distance.
Long story short, after 13 years he was back bombarding me and my family with hate mail, about how it was my fault he had lost his house and the sister he moved to france to be with had got the Police to throw him out and I was the one who reported him to the Police here geting him a caution losing him his taxi job etc etc etc. He has seriously lost the plot to the point he threatened at the end to tell all my neighbours stuff so they would beat me up and throw me out if I wasnt his friend again. 100 hours picking up dog poo hasnt stopped him yet,
My point is be very careful how you deal with them maybe pointing them in the direction of mental health help could be a positive move but remember friendship is a two way thing if there is none coming back in your direction are they indeed still a friend?
Best wishes OP
I pull back from viewing him too harshly because I remember all the times in the past when he was generous with his time and money. He drove me to work for about 6 months and never asked for petrol money. He would regularly cook us both dinner, get takeaways in and not ask for anything. Buy expensive rounds of cocktails and then pay for the taxi home after a night out. It's just a shame that things seemed to have changed - hey, maybe he thought I was taking advantage and decided to switch things round
Did you feel like you were "tricking him" or manipulating him into doing these things, as you say it feels like he is doing to others?
It may simply be a case of being able to get away with it. It's like with childen - when a child can't get something from one parent, they go and ask the other. Because you've picked up on it, he doesn't do it as much to you anymore. There is no concrete answer, apart from staging an intervention as a group (which is a horrible idea), or ignoring him.