DC Cinematic Universe-destined to fail or succeed?

San Fran SaraSan Fran Sara Posts: 834
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When compared to the MCU the DCCU seems so far to be a line of mediocre films,poor scripts and bad castings decisions, granted everything MCU has not been rosey but Disney does have a vision on what they want to happen for the MCU.

Warner Brothers in comparison seem utterly clueless, Zack Snyder has to be the worst decision by them, his lack of foresight and imagination for his DCCU has alienated fans, box office receipts are somewhat telling that the vision both Warners and him have is not panning out.

My opinion is that Wonder Woman is the make or break film for the DCCU, if it is yet another lacklustre movie with no clear direction then Warners may shy away from any DC related movie for a few years thus bring the DCCU to a shuddering halt. Just read that Synder is part responsible for the story for Wonder Woman, now I'm filled with dread.

One thing I do get from MCU but not from DCCU is that MCU movies feel like big budget events whereas every DCCU movie so far has not felt like a blockbuster event, they feel distinctly B movie.
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  • dodradedodrade Posts: 23,707
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    It feels a bit like VHS V Betamax, DC have the stronger characters but the public prefer the MCU.
  • Aiden JamesAiden James Posts: 545
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    A leaked email has suggested Wonder Woman is also woeful which saddens me.

    I think DC moved too fast and tried to fit too many things in at once. I said in another thread. Man Of Steel was the perfect platform to reboot this era but instead of going straight into Batman vs Superman they should have had a solo Batman movie with Affleck at the helm first.

    DC has the most famous characters in comic book history but Warners are failing them badly. Disney know what they are doing which is why the Marvel universe keeps going from strength to strength.

    Warner should have gone:

    Man Of Steel

    Solo Ben Affleck Batman movie - introduce Catwoman and show us Robin's death

    Batman Vs Superman

    Suicide Squad - have a Catwoman cameo appearance in this to bridge the gap between the first Batman movie and her solo film

    Wonder Woman

    Solo Catwoman movie - with appearances by Batman, Joker etc

    Justice League

    etc etc etc
  • caz06caz06 Posts: 848
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    i think the whole franchise is a mess, theirs no real good feel tone to the movies, and they've done nothing to get what audience their is remaining excited for the justice league,

    the only good thing i will say is i really like Ben affleck as batman, i love the idea of an older batman and they should have just stuck with solo films of him, and superman and then start to build up justice league,

    plus the dv tv uninverse is being shafted to make way for these films, i mean for me grant gustin is the flash
  • YatesYates Posts: 46
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    dodrade wrote: »
    It feels a bit like VHS V Betamax, DC have the stronger characters but the public prefer the MCU.

    Stronger characters in what sense? It's entirely subjective and of course on screen interpretation helps a lot in getting the character over on a grand scale. Marvel aren't chumps anymore in the movie business, Superman's nostalgia only takes him so far in my opinion, I prefer almost every marvel character who's featured in a movie over him.

    Edit: Just realised you said MCU so that takes away X-Men and Deadpool?
  • YuffieYuffie Posts: 9,864
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    I think the appointment of Geoff John's ¿ as DCs Kevin Feige¿ was a great idea. Weather you enjoys the DC TV shows for not, this guy can build a cohesive world, connect many characters together and release something that superhero fans and the general public will like.

    He only got appointed this year so there mightn't have been a while lot he could do about BvS and SS but the movies going forward are under his creative control so I am looking forward to seeing them (I was anyway) and I think he stands a good chance at getting some good reviews for the upcoming films and just a good public opinion about them overall.

    So I don't think the DCEU is destined to fail. But I would love it if Zack Snyder fcuked off. I'd be so much more confident in the universe if he was in no way connected to it.
  • ShotDownInFlameShotDownInFlame Posts: 5,666
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    Jumping in before the thread descends into childish name calling and bickering, which is inevitable with a certain member or two on here.

    I don't think it's destined to either fail or succeed at the moment. I mean I think we can all agree the 3 movies we've got so far from the DCCU have been less-than-ideal, but there's still time for them to pull it back. Both Wonder Woman and Justice League are what will decide the fate of the DCCU, especially Justice League. Because fair enough if the solo films are all a bit meh, but if the sum of their parts that we've all waited years for is a bit shite, then yeah, they've failed.

    One thing I will say however to make it seem like I'm not trying to sit on the fence, is that there is no way in hell DC have created a cinematic universe as well as Marvel has. DC failed in that regard as soon as they tried to cram too much into BvS, and as such, even if JL and WW are of such incredible quality, Ill still feel slightly "off" about it because of how badly they tried to rush absolutely everything to try and capatilize on "The Avengers Effect"
  • not_the_doctornot_the_doctor Posts: 1,835
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    It depends what the criteria is. By any objective standard, the DC EU (pronounced "eeew"), has so far been pretty successful from both a box office and audience reception point of view, but Marvel has set the bar so high, I don't think any DC movie is going to be able to compete for the foreseeable future.

    Other than that, the critical reception has been awful. It doesn't really mean much from a business perspective, but WB/DC did set out to differentiate themselves from Marvel, by trying to continue Nolan's (sometimes) more artistic approach. So in that sense, you could say they look destined to fail.

    That said, Marvel had a few early under-performers, even fairly recently, Ant-Man fell very short of their usual standards, and there isn't much positive buzz for what we have seen of Dr. Strange so far. If DC can get a few good movies on the board, and with Marvel potentially losing their VIP - Robert Downey Jr - the whole dynamic could start to shift.
  • Aiden JamesAiden James Posts: 545
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    It depends what the criteria is. By any objective standard, the DC EU (pronounced "eeew"), has so far been pretty successful from both a box office and audience reception point of view, but Marvel has set the bar so high, I don't think any DC movie is going to be able to compete for the foreseeable future.

    Other than that, the critical reception has been awful. It doesn't really mean much from a business perspective, but WB/DC did set out to differentiate themselves from Marvel, by trying to continue Nolan's (sometimes) more artistic approach. So in that sense, you could say they look destined to fail.

    That said, Marvel had a few early under-performers, even fairly recently, Ant-Man fell very short of their usual standards, and there isn't much positive buzz for what we have seen of Dr. Strange so far. If DC can get a few good movies on the board, and with Marvel potentially losing their VIP - Robert Downey Jr - the whole dynamic could start to shift.

    Personally I don't see RDJ as a big loss to Marvel. Chris Evans however, that would wound them badly.
  • KarisKaris Posts: 6,380
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    The problem is people are expecting movies with soul and they have none. In fact, most have no soul and are just lifeless and confusing messes.

    Snyder was the ultimate fail. He's the wrong man for the job and Marvel got that part right.

    I can't see Snyder's Murderverse getting back on track right now, not without some major changes, which would be incongruous with what has gone before.

    People are still hopeful that we'll get a good DC movie, but I think that hope it all but dead.
  • ironjadeironjade Posts: 10,002
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    DC keeps producing mediocre movies using their most over exposed characters.
    Marvel at least give their less well known characters a chance. When DC attempt this, who do they pick? Not Metamorpho, not Metal Men, not Dial "H" for Hero, not The Spectre but . . . . Aquaman! Christ Almighty.
  • PuckyPucky Posts: 4,505
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    Personally I don't see RDJ as a big loss to Marvel. Chris Evans however, that would wound them badly.

    Yes I agree. However Evans seems to be changing his mind on continuing with Marvel. He previously stated that after the 6 movies on the contract he was done with Marvel and will walk away. Recently I've seen him say that he'll stick around for as long as Marvel want him and has already confirmed that he'll be in both the upcoming Avengers films that start filming in November. (Which apparently, although 2 different films, is one for the purposes of his contract).

    It was well publicised that he was afraid that becoming Cap would mean he would have zero privacy - and that's something he values quite highly. I think that he's still managed to hold on to that, while still doing the endless press tours while promoting the movies. He's also been able to go out and do other stuff, including directing for the first time with 2014's Before We Go.

    While I don't think he'll commit to another X-number of movies contract, he might agree to appearing as and when they want him - especially as Sebastian Stan has 6 films left and I personally think there's plenty of places they can go with the Cap/Winter Soldier storyline.
  • Syntax ErrorSyntax Error Posts: 27,741
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    DC are starting to turn things around.

    Batman v Superman didn't quite hit the mark, but Ben Affleck as Bruce Wayne/Batman looks to be a good signing & he deserves a standalone Batman film before they go down the Justice League route.

    Suicide Squad, despite the panning is actually OK & shows that they can do a fun film that mostly works.

    Still a work in progress & nowhere near Marvel's heights, but getting there gradually.
  • andy1231andy1231 Posts: 5,100
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    Personally I don't see RDJ as a big loss to Marvel. Chris Evans however, that would wound them badly.

    Strange, because I think the exact opposite. If Iron man had failed then I doubt if the Marvel series of films would have taken off the way they have and most people (critics and filmgoers) think it was down to RDJ's performance that the film succeeded so well.
    Whilst Evans plays Captain America very well, as a character he is rather bland compared to Tony Stark.
  • TheAngryGermanTheAngryGerman Posts: 1,851
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    andy1231 wrote: »
    Strange, because I think the exact opposite. If Iron man had failed then I doubt if the Marvel series of films would have taken off the way they have and most people (critics and filmgoers) think it was down to RDJ's performance that the film succeeded so well.
    Whilst Evans plays Captain America very well, as a character he is rather bland compared to Tony Stark.

    I think RDJ was Marvels leading man in the beginning but with the success of Winter Soldier and Civil War Chris has now taken over.

    Which is a good thing cause it shows the audience accepts change and Marvel isn't desperately depending on one actor to keep things going.

    I'm tired of DCs half arsed films. They're not trying, they just throw some stuff together to benefit from Marvels ground work but as long as people are happy to give them a free pass for their at best okay-ish films they'll keep going down that route.
  • AdzPowerAdzPower Posts: 4,861
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    I don't understand why people call Captain America bland. He's strong, brave, smart, a great strategist, a great leader, caring. And most of all, he was frozen in ice for 70 years. Woke up in modern times and he DIDN'T go nuts, I imagine most people would have, he woke up in a completely different world, if that's not personality I don't know what is.
  • RebelScumRebelScum Posts: 16,008
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    AdzPower wrote: »
    I don't understand why people call Captain America bland. He's strong, brave, smart, a great strategist, a great leader, caring. And most of all, he was frozen in ice for 70 years. Woke up in modern times and he DIDN'T go nuts, I imagine most people would have, he woke up in a completely different world, if that's not personality I don't know what is.
    Flawed heroes tend to be far more intersting than squeaky clean ones. They're not just fighting real life enemies they also have to constantly fight the demons within.
  • TheAngryGermanTheAngryGerman Posts: 1,851
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    RebelScum wrote: »
    Flawed heroes tend to be far more intersting than squeaky clean ones. They're not just fighting real life enemies they also have to constantly fight the demons within.

    Yeah but we've done all that now in the plenty, I think people now wanna go back to something more hopeful and straight forward.

    Plus Cap Am has his demons too, he struggles with the realization that the system he swore to protect is as corrupt as the enemies he fights. His boy scout attitude is constantly chalenged if not chattered by now.
  • RebelScumRebelScum Posts: 16,008
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    Yeah but we've done all that now in the plenty, I think people now wanna go back to something more hopeful and straight forward.

    Plus Cap Am has his demons too, he struggles with the realization that the system he swore to protect is as corrupt as the enemies he fights. His boy scout attitude is constantly chalenged if not chattered by now.

    The audience isn't a collective mind, some will prefer the flawed heros, others prefer the more clean cut, it's good they serve both preferences.

    All the stuff mentioned a couple of posts above mean very little to me on their own. It's only the wrestling with his conscience and the personal cost of his choices that makes him interesting to me. Thankfully they've had the opportunity to explore that side of his character so he isn't as bland I found him in his first film. Although for my liking they could have tuned it up a couple of more notches, but as that would be straying away from the character I understand why they haven't.
  • TheAngryGermanTheAngryGerman Posts: 1,851
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    RebelScum wrote: »
    The audience isn't a collective mind, some will prefer the flawed heros, others prefer the more clean cut.

    You don't say.

    There is always the flavor of the moment though. And right now the majority seems to like optimistic Cap better than for example brooding Superman.
    Make of that what you want.
  • RebelScumRebelScum Posts: 16,008
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    You don't say.

    There is always the flavor of the moment though. And right now the majority seems to like optimistic Cap better than for example brooding Superman.
    Make of that what you want.
    What do you base that opinion on?
    PS: the question relates purely to Cap America, can't be arsed with a Cap Vs S discussion.
  • MotthusMotthus Posts: 7,280
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    I've enjoyed the previous DC films in Man Of Steel,Batman Vs Superman and Suicide Squad but then I'm a self confessed DC fan boy.All these three films have had terrible critical reaction but the general public and box office has been quite positive

    Although it seems from this thread that DC films are not quite well received but then with most films you will get people who love or hate them as shown by the different range of comments about Marvel films on this thread!

    My favourite Marvel films have been when they take risks in films like Ant Man and Guardians Of Galaxy which are my two favourite Marvel films

    Civil War I enjoyed but doesn't hit the heights of those two and was an improvement on the mess that was Avengers Age Of Ultron!

    Oh by the way the previous posts about Wonder Woman being a mess have already been denied by the films director as complete rubbish

    I had actually forgotten about Justice League being out next November but next year has about 5 or 6 superhero films battling for the box office!

    I do think that Wonder Woman might be DC version of Captain America with the film set over different time periods as well as worlds!

    By the way why were posters calling it DCCU? I thought it was DCEU?
  • TheAngryGermanTheAngryGerman Posts: 1,851
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    RebelScum wrote: »
    What do you base that opinion on?
    PS: the question relates purely to Cap America, can't be arsed with a Cap Vs S discussion.

    The fact that Captain America does financially and more important critically better than any other superhero films at the moment.
  • TheAngryGermanTheAngryGerman Posts: 1,851
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    Motthus wrote: »
    IAll these three films have had terrible critical reaction but the general public and box office has been quite positive

    It really hasn't, fanboys really need to get of that wagon were only critics dislike the DC films. There is backlash form the general audience towards the films in the plenty.
    Motthus wrote: »
    Oh by the way the previous posts about Wonder Woman being a mess have already been denied by the films director as complete rubbish

    Well he would hardly say anything else.

    I hope it's good though otherwise Hollywood will use it as an excuse to not make any female superhero films for another decade or so....
  • RebelScumRebelScum Posts: 16,008
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    The fact that Captain America does financially and more important critically better than any other superhero films at the moment.
    But that's not a reflection that the audience is seeking a more optimistic kind of superhero, the Captain America films have been getting progressively darker.
  • TheAngryGermanTheAngryGerman Posts: 1,851
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    RebelScum wrote: »
    But that's not a reflection that the audience is seeking a more optimistic kind of superhero, the Captain America films have been getting progressively darker.

    Yeah whatever, I don't really care all that much, sorry.
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