People can't just get on with it.
Its an obsession for some people just bang on and on and on and on and on about how gaga isn't as big as she used to be etc etc etc etc heard it all a thousand times.
Its become so utterly mind numbing I'm wondering what people will say when her next album comes out?
Enjoy the music or don't enjoy the music. There is no denying her talent and she can have a habit of overhyping things, but who cares? People want her to be the Bad Romance hit maker she was of that era. But perhaps she does not want to go back to that?
I see threads like this as good debate.
I always wonder why people who object to this kind of discussion even bother with music forums. It would be incredibly boring if there wasn't some mild disagreement and career analysis.
Whenever I read a post like yours, I just wonder why you would even bother coming to forums to be honest.
I always wonder why people who object to this kind of discussion even bother with music forums. It would be incredibly boring if there wasn't some mild disagreement and career analysis.
Whenever I read a post like yours, I just wonder why you would even bother coming to forums to be honest.
Gaga fans were always happy to list her many career highs when she was on top, to the point it used to take over almost every thread on here. Yet now its in the opposite direction they don't want anyone to discuss her. Most of the more outspoken Gaga defenders seem to have gone into hiding since ARTPOP flopped and haven't been seen since.
Reminds me of the ARTPOP album thread where some Gaga fans were saying no negative comments were allowed. Only praise!
I think it's just the fact that it's always the same things being said over and over again. I tend to stay out of these threads, because I've already said everything I feel there is to say. The fans are still there, they just go to different places now, where they can have actual discussions rather than the same people always popping up and saying the same things.
If you go to ATRL or gagadaily, there's always a lot of discussion going on there, and it's not people just talking about her merits. Especially on gagadaily, there's a lot of fans having debates about what she should do now and calling out her faults etc.
But it's no fun to write something here about a gig or album or whatever and then constantly face the same 'she's finished, she's over etc etc' when trying to have a conversation. That's not to say that one shouldn't say anything negative, it's just it's all been said before and doesn't change anything really. It seems a little bit like people getting at you because you're a fan?
As I said before, like what you like, dislike what you dislike, but live and let live and let others be. I have many opinions on the current batch of popstars which for the most part I keep to myself cos there's no point. Fans are never going to agree, and always get kinda het up about defending somebody they really support. If you really like somebody's music, and don't get caught up in behind the scenes stuff and tedious gossip, then if somebody else comes along and starts saying they can't sing, or their music is crap etc, then I guess to some it does feel like a personal attack.
One thing I don't understand though is how people are put off by a fanbase. It's certainly not like LM are the first. I've been reading horrible stuff that fans have been writing for years, and it never changes my opinion about that popstar, negatively or positively. It's all just playground stuff and I don't let that change my opinion about a performance or a song or whatever - just find that argument a bit strange. Fans have been over zealous ever since there were fans - there's always an extreme section to each fanbase. Perhaps the rise of internet forums, youtube and stuff accentuated this with Gaga, considering also what she stands for, but she's told her fans particularly many times to stop, which goes unnoticed. Those people are going to write mean things no matter who they 'stan' for, and no matter what a popstar says, says more about them than the artist I think.
But if we're going to be fair about it - where're all the posts about Rihanna not selling out tours, or being a big album seller, or Katy Perry's singles flopping quite a lot this era... It does seem a little one-sided. From recent interviews, I think she's torn between selling/conforming and writing what she wants to do. Not sure she can have both at this point - I'm sure she wishes she could, of course every artist wants to have #1s and the best-selling album of the year but let's not forget ARTPOP was still #1 and has sold ok, considering the fact that there hasn't been any big song that one immediately associates with it.
I don't think it's her best album by any means, but to say it's full of crap and radio friendly stuff is also just wrong. I severely doubt Aura, Mary Jane Holland, Swine and Artpop were written to trouble the charts - and I think they all show that she can be versatile. Whether everybody likes them or not is a different matter entirely, but I don't think they're terrible songs.
I love lady gaga... Got her first 2 albums and went to see her in newcastle few years back! She was amazing. Best 27.50 i spent haha. But tbh i never knew she had a new album out. Shes coming back here in newcastle in nov.. Wonder if theres any tickets left!
That is true, while her last album may not have been much of an artistic departure in terms of genre, it was not exactly full of 'commercial' songs so in that sense she was perhaps pushing the boat out.
No big ballads apart from a druggie song and an theatrical-ish power ballad (Gypsy), the screaming in Swine, the bizarre Moroccan-Arabic sounds in Aura and the vocoder, a bizarre story song about space and seashell bikinis and the obligatory or 4 songs about fashion to appeal to the gay market.
2 or 3 songs that could have been commercial hits (G.U.Y, Do What U Want, Gypsy) due to broad appeal and simple lyrics, but the rest was very haphazard. I never understand when people compare Gaga's music to that of Perry and Rihanna as if they were the same thing - they may be similar, sure, but Gaga has a heckuva lot of songs with really bizarre themes and concepts, especially on her last two albums, whereas you could release almost anything on a Perry/Rihanna album to a wide market because the songs are always just about sex, love, relationships, independence, personal struggles or having a dance and a party - pretty much universal themes. Its in that sense that Gaga is 'alternative' - the subject matter of her songs is absolutely wacky at times and I suppose in that sense, you could say her lyrics are...'creative' (I'm not sure I'd stretch to 'artistic').
That is true, while her last album may not have been much of an artistic departure in terms of genre, it was not exactly full of 'commercial' songs so in that sense she was perhaps pushing the boat out.
No big ballads apart from a druggie song and an theatrical-ish power ballad (Gypsy), the screaming in Swine, the bizarre Moroccan-Arabic sounds in Aura and the vocoder, a bizarre story song about space and seashell bikinis and the obligatory or 4 songs about fashion to appeal to the gay market.
2 or 3 songs that could have been commercial hits (G.U.Y, Do What U Want, Gypsy) due to broad appeal and simple lyrics, but the rest was very haphazard. I never understand when people compare Gaga's music to that of Perry and Rihanna as if they were the same thing - they may be similar, sure, but Gaga has a heckuva lot of songs with really bizarre themes and concepts, especially on her last two albums, whereas you could release almost anything on a Perry/Rihanna album to a wide market because the songs are always just about sex, love, relationships, independence, personal struggles or having a dance and a party - pretty much universal themes. Its in that sense that Gaga is 'alternative' - the subject matter of her songs is absolutely wacky at times and I suppose in that sense, you could say her lyrics are...'creative' (I'm not sure I'd stretch to 'artistic').
God she's def had some bum notes lyric-wise! I cringe everytime I hear: garden panty in Venus! But having said that, in Dope i love the 2nd verse: 12 lonely steps up heaven's stairyway to gold, i mine myself like coal, god forgive my soul. each day i cry, i feel so low from living high. - love those lines!
I remember listening to ARTPOP first off, and not being able to really pick an obvious single run.Her team and herself need to get organised before a campaign starts and stick to a plan. NO MORE PROMO SINGLES.
I always laugh when people try to claim Madonna is manufactured. She was moulded. There is a different. Madonna was spotted for her talents which meant people put a lot of work into her because she just had *IT*. Madonna was always destined for fame. She was built for it. Two different teams spent years moulding Madonna with kid gloves before she ever released a single because they knew she was going to be the next big thing. It couldn't have been any other female off the street. It really was always about Madonna and only Madonna.
Also the fact she has never done drugs or even had a breakdown despite her HUGE level of fame speaks volumes about how strong minded she is as a person. To survive that Sex era took guts! No one else could have done what Madonna did. It had to be Madonna. It was all about her. Not the team around her. Madonna cut ties pretty much early on with all her original team yet continued to go from strength to strength without them. Gaga ditched her original crew and her career has gone down the pan. So who would you say out of the two knew what they were doing and was more in control?
Secondly, Ray Of Light is such a masterpiece of work that putting Madonna and manufactured into the same sentence fails because a music puppet could never produce an album as great as that. William Orbit even said she was behind most of the album as she had a vision of how it had to sound and wasn't happy until it was right. She actually dropped plans to include long term pal Pat Leonard on the album because she knew him and her wouldn't create what she wanted for that record. So while some of her recent efforts might not be as good as her previous, Madonna is always on top of her game. Where MDNA the album lacked the tour itself made up for it.
I can't ever remember who first made the quote but its true, Madonna is the last of the great superstars. When she dies that's it. The golden era is over. No one else is really up there like Madonna is. He legacy is so impacted into popular culture you can see her presence in every female popstar on the market.
Great post and totally agree with it all. Couldn't have said it better.
Comments
I see threads like this as good debate.
I always wonder why people who object to this kind of discussion even bother with music forums. It would be incredibly boring if there wasn't some mild disagreement and career analysis.
Whenever I read a post like yours, I just wonder why you would even bother coming to forums to be honest.
Gaga fans were always happy to list her many career highs when she was on top, to the point it used to take over almost every thread on here. Yet now its in the opposite direction they don't want anyone to discuss her. Most of the more outspoken Gaga defenders seem to have gone into hiding since ARTPOP flopped and haven't been seen since.
Reminds me of the ARTPOP album thread where some Gaga fans were saying no negative comments were allowed. Only praise!
If you go to ATRL or gagadaily, there's always a lot of discussion going on there, and it's not people just talking about her merits. Especially on gagadaily, there's a lot of fans having debates about what she should do now and calling out her faults etc.
But it's no fun to write something here about a gig or album or whatever and then constantly face the same 'she's finished, she's over etc etc' when trying to have a conversation. That's not to say that one shouldn't say anything negative, it's just it's all been said before and doesn't change anything really. It seems a little bit like people getting at you because you're a fan?
As I said before, like what you like, dislike what you dislike, but live and let live and let others be. I have many opinions on the current batch of popstars which for the most part I keep to myself cos there's no point. Fans are never going to agree, and always get kinda het up about defending somebody they really support. If you really like somebody's music, and don't get caught up in behind the scenes stuff and tedious gossip, then if somebody else comes along and starts saying they can't sing, or their music is crap etc, then I guess to some it does feel like a personal attack.
One thing I don't understand though is how people are put off by a fanbase. It's certainly not like LM are the first. I've been reading horrible stuff that fans have been writing for years, and it never changes my opinion about that popstar, negatively or positively. It's all just playground stuff and I don't let that change my opinion about a performance or a song or whatever - just find that argument a bit strange. Fans have been over zealous ever since there were fans - there's always an extreme section to each fanbase. Perhaps the rise of internet forums, youtube and stuff accentuated this with Gaga, considering also what she stands for, but she's told her fans particularly many times to stop, which goes unnoticed. Those people are going to write mean things no matter who they 'stan' for, and no matter what a popstar says, says more about them than the artist I think.
But if we're going to be fair about it - where're all the posts about Rihanna not selling out tours, or being a big album seller, or Katy Perry's singles flopping quite a lot this era... It does seem a little one-sided. From recent interviews, I think she's torn between selling/conforming and writing what she wants to do. Not sure she can have both at this point - I'm sure she wishes she could, of course every artist wants to have #1s and the best-selling album of the year but let's not forget ARTPOP was still #1 and has sold ok, considering the fact that there hasn't been any big song that one immediately associates with it.
I don't think it's her best album by any means, but to say it's full of crap and radio friendly stuff is also just wrong. I severely doubt Aura, Mary Jane Holland, Swine and Artpop were written to trouble the charts - and I think they all show that she can be versatile. Whether everybody likes them or not is a different matter entirely, but I don't think they're terrible songs.
No big ballads apart from a druggie song and an theatrical-ish power ballad (Gypsy), the screaming in Swine, the bizarre Moroccan-Arabic sounds in Aura and the vocoder, a bizarre story song about space and seashell bikinis and the obligatory or 4 songs about fashion to appeal to the gay market.
2 or 3 songs that could have been commercial hits (G.U.Y, Do What U Want, Gypsy) due to broad appeal and simple lyrics, but the rest was very haphazard. I never understand when people compare Gaga's music to that of Perry and Rihanna as if they were the same thing - they may be similar, sure, but Gaga has a heckuva lot of songs with really bizarre themes and concepts, especially on her last two albums, whereas you could release almost anything on a Perry/Rihanna album to a wide market because the songs are always just about sex, love, relationships, independence, personal struggles or having a dance and a party - pretty much universal themes. Its in that sense that Gaga is 'alternative' - the subject matter of her songs is absolutely wacky at times and I suppose in that sense, you could say her lyrics are...'creative' (I'm not sure I'd stretch to 'artistic').
God she's def had some bum notes lyric-wise! I cringe everytime I hear: garden panty in Venus! But having said that, in Dope i love the 2nd verse: 12 lonely steps up heaven's stairyway to gold, i mine myself like coal, god forgive my soul. each day i cry, i feel so low from living high. - love those lines!
I remember listening to ARTPOP first off, and not being able to really pick an obvious single run.Her team and herself need to get organised before a campaign starts and stick to a plan. NO MORE PROMO SINGLES.
Great post and totally agree with it all. Couldn't have said it better.