Ultra, your post is most interesting - i went back to your last post:
the way these things divide down straight lines and the way in which the two camps have completely separate styles in every possible way ... well, it really is an absolute eye-opener ... and tells me more about the state of the UK in this era than most other sources which are out there
If I read you correctly you are saying that there is a clear delineation between those who support Josie and those who think she's vile, or something like it. And each of these sides uses a completely different style of language? And the style of the language directly correlates in some way with the state of modern society?
If this is your claim, please please explain further. Have you researched this, it sounds really interesting. If I've misunderstood you, can you explain what you do mean?
You see, this is a comment about fans/supporters, it's not about Josie, or not just about Josie. I almost agree with it, but I would change the word 'fragility' to 'common sense'. Why bother to stick around in a forum where you find that the extent of disapproval of your preferred housemate is bothersome to you?:D
Peeps leaving MF for that reason might be true, but peeps leaving ATs? That's fragility in my book.
And even your version sort of confirms my view that many Josie supporters are of a different type than most DSBBers. I don't think most posters here would find it particularly bothersome if they had an overriding interest in BB. However, perhaps a 1-off BB interest makes you more attached to an individual HM and therefore more wounded by any criticism.
But I agree in one respect: we've wandered away from the original thread title!;)
But there's a difference between a warns n all discussion and a discussion that's treated as a "debate" (with a lot of point-scoring and debating tactics etc) and where many of the "warts" that are repeatedly mentioned are greatly exaggerated or outright false. That sort of thing can become tiresome rather quickly.
Appreciation threads aren't all the same, and there have certainly times when it was possible to have a better discussion in an AT than in the main forum.
I only toe dabbled in Appreciation Threads in their start up, but soon realised I'm not an AT kinda gal however, I get the impression from what people have said that the JJJ AT was different to (for wont of a better word) ordinary AT threads.
For a period of time when it was virtually notching up a part a day it operated on a different level to anything I've seen on DS. The closest I could put it to from personal knowledege would be the Matt & Flavia AT in from Strictly but even that doesn't come close.
It was a phenomenon that I can't see happening again in a hurry but the reasons for that phenomena are still up for discussion.
I didn't start from such a stance, and I would call it realistic rather than defeatist. I came to my views after years of watching discussions in forums and other places on the internet.
I won't respond on your other points, as I don't think we're going to agree on them and I'm already guilty of helping take the thread off-topic.
But in conclusion can I ask in response to your point above: with your specific experience of forum discussions, but taking account of the unique elements of the Josie situation/fanbase, what would you recommend? Status quo, and let time be the healer?
But in conclusion can I ask in response to your point above: with your specific experience of forum discussions, but taking account of the unique elements of the Josie situation/fanbase, what would you recommend?
A greater understanding between pro and anti-Josie supporters, or perhaps more accurately at least some recognition of the other's viewpoint......
With the hope of seeing more balanced discussion on MF when Josie's name is mentioned.
ps - really wish I liked her, cos it would be fun to defend a minority position like that, but I can't bring myself to play devil's advocate and post stuff I don't believe in. Just in case that would have formed part of any recommendation!
That's fine with me. "anti-Josie side" was just a convenient shorthand. But certainly a lot of the discussion is, or was, about Josie doing those "horrible things".
(I agree with you about the way Shabby was discussed, btw. It's one reason why I preferred to talk about her in the appreciation thread. Having supported unpopular HMs before, I knew nothing I said would make much difference.)
It was vicious, seriously vicious. Imagine having to put over 100 people on ignore just to make the board readable.
Hi Patsylimerick, the post you are criticising here was made in response to Happy Tree's post, when s/he was talking about fans /supporters who are prone to 'remonstrating vociferously' or words to that effect. The post was about fans! And I don't consider myself as one of the vociferious remonstrators anyway, so in my mind there was nothing personal about it!
Alot is said on the MF about fans/supporters. I think the post Happy Tree was referring to might have been one suggesting that all Josie supporters were of the same physique.
I'm sorry but on several occasions on this thread Josies fans have been talked about, We've been told we have low esteem and other such nonsense, I don't understand why you cannot accept that when those kind of things are said people are going to get upset.
You 2 have extremely double standards. Periodically I have to go into the AT to have posts removed because they are about a friend of mine who is NOT on DS. (If she was on DS she'd be able to do it herself) Why is she subjected to abuse on a thread that supposed to be appreciating John AND Josie? Because John follows her and responds to her, which I guess is some kind of crime in the JJJ world. Most of the CT people have been ABUSED on the JJJAT and talked about incessantly on twitter. No one NOT ANYONE has ever made threats to other posters in the CT. Can't say the same about the JJJAT.
There are T&C for these forums. And extra rules for ATs. Beyond those guidelines, it doesn't matter what anyone thinks of anyone else's right to post their opinion about anything. I wonder why there is so much challenging about this, none of it is anyone's business.
I guess the closest rival for most of the show was Ben (until he was evicted 2/3rds of the way through). My reading of DS forum during BB11 was Ben supporters were the strongest presence on MF. Both John and Josie came in for massive criticism on MF and their supporters in general retired to the AT. Whilst the John supporters have returned to MF, the Josie supporters never did. But with none of the other rivalries you list did either group of supporters abandon MF for the sanctuary of the AT iirc. Yet that's what happened in BB11.
My theory is that JJJ attracted a type of supporter who hasn't typically got involved in DSBB posting and who found the MF cut and thrust style not to their taste. They claim to prefer a diet of the positive (although we all witnessed their acceptance of the negative when it came to other HMs targeted by JJJ). And that also helps explain why we so consistently hear these complaints about any negative views being expressed about HMs. I love Rachel Rice (BB9), but it doesn't hurt me when I read the criticisms about her in MF, so what is it about Josie or her supporters which makes so many of them react differently? Again, I can't help but feel it's due mainly to a different type of supporter that each attracts.
I totally agree with you, Alex. Maybe initially there was a range of type of supporter for JJJ but as time went on and posters began to reveal something of their own lives, it became clear that JJJATers were mostly women - and the occasional man - who had, like me, never been on a chat forum, never even knew the existence of the Channel 4 website, took a while to find the courage to post in the first place. A lot lurked for a long long time and just enjoyed reading the JJJAT because they'd discovered a place where people appeared to think the way they did. A lot of them hadn't even watched BB before and an awful lot more, again like me, just tuned into BB11 because it was supposed to be the last BB ever. I'd lost heart watching it the previous year.
What I think is amazing is how the JJJAT gave a lot of lonely or 'alone' people a place to come where they made a lot of online friends - those friendships have lasted long beyond the relationship of JJJ. You may remember we started doing 'epic' posts when anyone attained a key number, 1000 up to Ali's 20,000 and beyond. One of mine was a list of skills that people had learned being on the JJJAT. It went on and on and on. Unbelievable that so many people had suddenly entered the technological age just because of JJJ. I think that's pretty fantastic. And in its heyday, it made us all laugh and cry, gave us fantastic music, opportunities for discussion about all sorts of things - it became a real community of people who genuinely cared about each other. It was also a place where people came for emotional support for difficult times in their own lives, for advice - after all, the age range went from 14 to 70+ - and the advice wasn't always going the obvious way.
When the split came, it all started to fall apart - in some ways very similar to what happens when a couple amongst your friends separates/divorces. This online community went through all those same emotions. Who to be loyal to, who to believe - some wanting to support both still, some neither, most one or the other.
Maybe all this happens on other threads where they support particular people - I don't know. I can only say what my own experience was. It was a very special time for me. And I still cherish the friendships I made through the thread at that time.
I always said that community was JJJ's legacy. And I still think that. Just a shame that the two people who brought us all together couldn't behave like grown ups and finish their relationship properly - whatever kind of relationship anyone thought it was.
I don't think Josie supporters are generally more sensitive to criticism of her than are the fans of any other HM. Maybe the JJJ phenomenon did attract feelings of loyalty and emotional involvement, but as far as support for Josie herself is concerned, it's not the case. I don't think so anyway, although I'm not really that au fait with BB culture - I have liked HMs in previous years: Helen, Alex, Science, stand out...I also liked the geeky one who nearly won one year, but I've forgotten his name. I liked Rodrigo too!:o
But I think that given the level and the nature of the criticism, and the fact that it has focused in on sensitive issues: domestic violence, fidelity in relationships, abortion, travelling culture, delinquency, alcohol abuse, body size, etc, it has provoked personal or internal feelings which might be difficult to deal with. It's not just been about emotional investment in Josie, but how she becomes a focus of attention in a discussion about comparative values and how divisive they are. I remember at one stage getting into a discussion on the court thread about how many sexual partners a woman should have had at the age of 25!!! That was just one issue that put the cat amongst the pigeons, and if you thought it was OK to have had 11 (which Josie had) you could almost feel the disapproving frown through your PC screen! And of course the abortion story was even more controversial. I understand that many people were upset by that, and it did fan the flames in an already blazing inferno.
Confrontation is one way of dealing with it, but that will get you banned from DS, so most decide to withdraw to the safety of closed groups in order to discuss their support. Even when the JJJAT was in its heydey, there were tinychats going on where this happened. Posting in the JJJAT didn't work either, your posts could be taken over to the MF and pulled apart there. The issues which arise when Josie is discussed tend to pull people apart, and continue to do so.
Of course if you say that all Josie fans are unattractive, or feeble, or lack self-esteem, or are just plain rude about them in any way, it ain't gonna go down well!
So I think it's inevitable that the Josie fans will go elsewhere, there's so much choice on the internet now, maybe we are seeing the beginning of the demise of DS! I hope not, but maybe it's time to look at the Ts and Cs and see if more open and honest debate can be encouraged. Just a thought.:)
It was vicious, seriously vicious. Imagine having to put over 100 people on ignore just to make the board readable.
You 2 have extremely double standards. Periodically I have to go into the AT to have posts removed because they are about a friend of mine who is NOT on DS. (If she was on DS she'd be able to do it herself) Why is she subjected to abuse on a thread that supposed to be appreciating John AND Josie? Because John follows her and responds to her, which I guess is some kind of crime in the JJJ world. Most of the CT people have been ABUSED on the JJJAT and talked about incessantly on twitter. No one NOT ANYONE has ever made threats to other posters in the CT. Can't say the same about the JJJAT.
Hi Vesna, I have no knowledge about anything in your post, therefore it makes no sense to me. I am sorry your friend is abused on the JJJAT although I must say it's a long time since I saw any abuse on there. Abuse is not good, I wish everyone would stop it.
I don't think Josie supporters are generally more sensitive to criticism of her than are the fans of any other HM. Maybe the JJJ phenomenon did attract feelings of loyalty and emotional involvement, but as far as support for Josie herself is concerned, it's not the case. I don't think so anyway, although I'm not really that au fait with BB culture - I have liked HMs in previous years: Helen, Alex, Science, stand out...I also liked the geeky one who nearly won one year, but I've forgotten his name. I liked Rodrigo too!:o
But I think that given the level and the nature of the criticism, and the fact that it has focused in on sensitive issues: domestic violence, fidelity in relationships, abortion, travelling culture, delinquency, alcohol abuse, body size, etc, it has provoked personal or internal feelings which might be difficult to deal with. It's not just been about emotional investment in Josie, but how she becomes a focus of attention in a discussion about comparative values and how divisive they are. I remember at one stage getting into a discussion on the court thread about how many sexual partners a woman should have had at the age of 25!!! That was just one issue that put the cat amongst the pigeons, and if you thought it was OK to have had 11 (which Josie had) you could almost feel the disapproving frown through your PC screen! And of course the abortion story was even more controversial. I understand that many people were upset by that, and it did fan the flames in an already blazing inferno.
Confrontation is one way of dealing with it, but that will get you banned from DS, so most decide to withdraw to the safety of closed groups in order to discuss their support. Even when the JJJAT was in its heydey, there were tinychats going on where this happened. Posting in the JJJAT didn't work either, your posts could be taken over to the MF and pulled apart there. The issues which arise when Josie is discussed tend to pull people apart, and continue to do so.
Of course if you say that all Josie fans are unattractive, or feeble, or lack self-esteem, or are just plain rude about them in any way, it ain't gonna go down well!
So I think it's inevitable that the Josie fans will go elsewhere, there's so much choice on the internet now, maybe we are seeing the beginning of the demise of DS! I hope not, but maybe it's time to look at the Ts and Cs and see if more open and honest debate can be encouraged. Just a thought.:)
I think that's a very interesting post - as was Kay's.
But this ^^^ once again causes me difficulty. Because while it acknowleges that Josie admitting to being violent against her boyfriends and selling a story about an ex forcing her to have an abortion caused controversies that upset her fans; it doesn't address - at all - why fans seem, for some unfathomable reason, to think that these things that she does shouldn't be criticised.
Of course they should be. I actually stopped posting for about two weeks after the abortion story. Prior to that, I'd always been considered to be in the funny corner of the court thread. I found huge amounts of humour in John James and Josie; I enjoyed mocking their magazine articles and physical awkwardness with each other.
But the abortion story turned my stomach - genuinely. How - still - is this more a discussion about how upset her fans got when this was being discussed than a discussion about how despicable a thing it was to do? Is it deflection? Or do her fans genuinely not get the logical black hole here?
Ultra, your post is most interesting - i went back to your last post:
If I read you correctly you are saying that there is a clear delineation between those who support Josie and those who think she's vile, or something like it. And each of these sides uses a completely different style of language? And the style of the language directly correlates in some way with the state of modern society?
If this is your claim, please please explain further. Have you researched this, it sounds really interesting. If I've misunderstood you, can you explain what you do mean?
Sweetpea ... I am not avoiding a follow up ... I have a raging temperature and am aching all over and seem to be getting worse by the minute ... have collapsed in bed and don't know when I am going to feel normal again ... I have to sleep and shake this awful thing off ... I worked very long hours this week and also got incredibly frozen to the marrow and now I am apparently paying the price ...
Sweetpea ... I am not avoiding a follow up ... I have a raging temperature and am aching all over and seem to be getting worse by the minute ... have collapsed in bed and don't know when I am going to feel normal again ... I have to sleep and shake this awful thing off ... I worked very long hours this week and also got incredibly frozen to the marrow and now I am apparently paying the price ...
I don't think Josie supporters are generally more sensitive to criticism of her than are the fans of any other HM. Maybe the JJJ phenomenon did attract feelings of loyalty and emotional involvement, but as far as support for Josie herself is concerned, it's not the case. I don't think so anyway, although I'm not really that au fait with BB culture - I have liked HMs in previous years: Helen, Alex, Science, stand out...I also liked the geeky one who nearly won one year, but I've forgotten his name. I liked Rodrigo too!:o
But I think that given the level and the nature of the criticism, and the fact that it has focused in on sensitive issues: domestic violence, fidelity in relationships, abortion, travelling culture, delinquency, alcohol abuse, body size, etc, it has provoked personal or internal feelings which might be difficult to deal with. It's not just been about emotional investment in Josie, but how she becomes a focus of attention in a discussion about comparative values and how divisive they are. I remember at one stage getting into a discussion on the court thread about how many sexual partners a woman should have had at the age of 25!!! That was just one issue that put the cat amongst the pigeons, and if you thought it was OK to have had 11 (which Josie had) you could almost feel the disapproving frown through your PC screen! And of course the abortion story was even more controversial. I understand that many people were upset by that, and it did fan the flames in an already blazing inferno.
Confrontation is one way of dealing with it, but that will get you banned from DS, so most decide to withdraw to the safety of closed groups in order to discuss their support. Even when the JJJAT was in its heydey, there were tinychats going on where this happened. Posting in the JJJAT didn't work either, your posts could be taken over to the MF and pulled apart there. The issues which arise when Josie is discussed tend to pull people apart, and continue to do so.
Of course if you say that all Josie fans are unattractive, or feeble, or lack self-esteem, or are just plain rude about them in any way, it ain't gonna go down well!
So I think it's inevitable that the Josie fans will go elsewhere, there's so much choice on the internet now, maybe we are seeing the beginning of the demise of DS! I hope not, but maybe it's time to look at the Ts and Cs and see if more open and honest debate can be encouraged. Just a thought.:)
that is a really good post and i agree with you about ds it is on the decline and needs bringing up to date to flourish again
Sweetpea ... I am not avoiding a follow up ... I have a raging temperature and am aching all over and seem to be getting worse by the minute ... have collapsed in bed and don't know when I am going to feel normal again ... I have to sleep and shake this awful thing off ... I worked very long hours this week and also got incredibly frozen to the marrow and now I am apparently paying the price ...
Take care of yourself, UV. Lots of sleep. Lots of water. Lots of sleep.
The most important thing about any kind of writing is having something to say .The most impressive piece of prose or poetry can still be the biggest load of tripe despite adhering to all the rules of grammar, syntax and spelling. Content will always win the day, everything else is window dressing .
Some people might say that this was the sort of meretricious twaddle that has been peddled by a certain sort of school for the last three or four decades ... I, of course, couldn't possibly comment ...
Take care of yourself, UV. Lots of sleep. Lots of water. Lots of sleep.
Thank you, darling ... do you think that hot and unbelievably sweet tea (no, I am not proud of it ... but have given up the cigarettes and have never been a big drinker ... and we all have to have a little bit of naughtiness in our lives, don't we ... ? ) might conceivably take the place of water ... ?
yes but realisticly how many of those member actively use it - i would put money on the fact that a lot dont
You have absolutely no idea. DS (457K members) is much larger than our tiny little BB part of the universe.
And of course BB is in decline in terms of viewer numbers, so DS will no doubt reflect that trend.
In any event DS will have few qualms about the departure of a few Josie fans from the forum, some of whom weren't well suited to the rigours of T&C forum protection in the first place.
Sweetpea ... I am not avoiding a follow up ... I have a raging temperature and am aching all over and seem to be getting worse by the minute ... have collapsed in bed and don't know when I am going to feel normal again ... I have to sleep and shake this awful thing off ... I worked very long hours this week and also got incredibly frozen to the marrow and now I am apparently paying the price ...
Yes get well soon, UV, I look forward to reading your posts.
You have absolutely no idea. DS (457K members) is much larger than our tiny little BB part of the universe.
And of course BB is in decline in terms of numbers, so DS will no doubt reflect that trend.
In any event DS will have few qualms about the departure of a few Josie fans from the forum, some of whom weren't well suited to the rigours of T&C forum protection.
i am not a total ignoramus i am quite aware of that and stand by what i have said a lot of people join then very quickly find its not for them even out side the bb forums
Thank you, darling ... do you think that hot and unbelievably sweet tea (no, I am not proud of it ... but have given up the cigarettes and have never been a big drinker ... and we all have to have a little bit of naughtiness in our lives, don't we ... ? ) might conceivably take the place of water ... ?
I'd even stretch to a hot whiskey Tea's great for hydration; and the sweeter the better - restores electrolytes.
Comments
Ultra, your post is most interesting - i went back to your last post:
If I read you correctly you are saying that there is a clear delineation between those who support Josie and those who think she's vile, or something like it. And each of these sides uses a completely different style of language? And the style of the language directly correlates in some way with the state of modern society?
If this is your claim, please please explain further. Have you researched this, it sounds really interesting. If I've misunderstood you, can you explain what you do mean?
Peeps leaving MF for that reason might be true, but peeps leaving ATs? That's fragility in my book.
And even your version sort of confirms my view that many Josie supporters are of a different type than most DSBBers. I don't think most posters here would find it particularly bothersome if they had an overriding interest in BB. However, perhaps a 1-off BB interest makes you more attached to an individual HM and therefore more wounded by any criticism.
But I agree in one respect: we've wandered away from the original thread title!;)
I only toe dabbled in Appreciation Threads in their start up, but soon realised I'm not an AT kinda gal
For a period of time when it was virtually notching up a part a day it operated on a different level to anything I've seen on DS. The closest I could put it to from personal knowledege would be the Matt & Flavia AT in from Strictly but even that doesn't come close.
It was a phenomenon that I can't see happening again in a hurry but the reasons for that phenomena are still up for discussion.
I won't respond on your other points, as I don't think we're going to agree on them and I'm already guilty of helping take the thread off-topic.
But in conclusion can I ask in response to your point above: with your specific experience of forum discussions, but taking account of the unique elements of the Josie situation/fanbase, what would you recommend? Status quo, and let time be the healer?
What goal are we trying to achieve?
A greater understanding between pro and anti-Josie supporters, or perhaps more accurately at least some recognition of the other's viewpoint......
With the hope of seeing more balanced discussion on MF when Josie's name is mentioned.
ps - really wish I liked her, cos it would be fun to defend a minority position like that, but I can't bring myself to play devil's advocate and post stuff I don't believe in. Just in case that would have formed part of any recommendation!
You 2 have extremely double standards. Periodically I have to go into the AT to have posts removed because they are about a friend of mine who is NOT on DS. (If she was on DS she'd be able to do it herself) Why is she subjected to abuse on a thread that supposed to be appreciating John AND Josie? Because John follows her and responds to her, which I guess is some kind of crime in the JJJ world. Most of the CT people have been ABUSED on the JJJAT and talked about incessantly on twitter. No one NOT ANYONE has ever made threats to other posters in the CT. Can't say the same about the JJJAT.
I totally agree with you, Alex. Maybe initially there was a range of type of supporter for JJJ but as time went on and posters began to reveal something of their own lives, it became clear that JJJATers were mostly women - and the occasional man - who had, like me, never been on a chat forum, never even knew the existence of the Channel 4 website, took a while to find the courage to post in the first place. A lot lurked for a long long time and just enjoyed reading the JJJAT because they'd discovered a place where people appeared to think the way they did. A lot of them hadn't even watched BB before and an awful lot more, again like me, just tuned into BB11 because it was supposed to be the last BB ever. I'd lost heart watching it the previous year.
What I think is amazing is how the JJJAT gave a lot of lonely or 'alone' people a place to come where they made a lot of online friends - those friendships have lasted long beyond the relationship of JJJ. You may remember we started doing 'epic' posts when anyone attained a key number, 1000 up to Ali's 20,000 and beyond. One of mine was a list of skills that people had learned being on the JJJAT. It went on and on and on. Unbelievable that so many people had suddenly entered the technological age just because of JJJ. I think that's pretty fantastic. And in its heyday, it made us all laugh and cry, gave us fantastic music, opportunities for discussion about all sorts of things - it became a real community of people who genuinely cared about each other. It was also a place where people came for emotional support for difficult times in their own lives, for advice - after all, the age range went from 14 to 70+ - and the advice wasn't always going the obvious way.
When the split came, it all started to fall apart - in some ways very similar to what happens when a couple amongst your friends separates/divorces. This online community went through all those same emotions. Who to be loyal to, who to believe - some wanting to support both still, some neither, most one or the other.
Maybe all this happens on other threads where they support particular people - I don't know. I can only say what my own experience was. It was a very special time for me. And I still cherish the friendships I made through the thread at that time.
I always said that community was JJJ's legacy. And I still think that. Just a shame that the two people who brought us all together couldn't behave like grown ups and finish their relationship properly - whatever kind of relationship anyone thought it was.
But I think that given the level and the nature of the criticism, and the fact that it has focused in on sensitive issues: domestic violence, fidelity in relationships, abortion, travelling culture, delinquency, alcohol abuse, body size, etc, it has provoked personal or internal feelings which might be difficult to deal with. It's not just been about emotional investment in Josie, but how she becomes a focus of attention in a discussion about comparative values and how divisive they are. I remember at one stage getting into a discussion on the court thread about how many sexual partners a woman should have had at the age of 25!!! That was just one issue that put the cat amongst the pigeons, and if you thought it was OK to have had 11 (which Josie had) you could almost feel the disapproving frown through your PC screen! And of course the abortion story was even more controversial. I understand that many people were upset by that, and it did fan the flames in an already blazing inferno.
Confrontation is one way of dealing with it, but that will get you banned from DS, so most decide to withdraw to the safety of closed groups in order to discuss their support. Even when the JJJAT was in its heydey, there were tinychats going on where this happened. Posting in the JJJAT didn't work either, your posts could be taken over to the MF and pulled apart there. The issues which arise when Josie is discussed tend to pull people apart, and continue to do so.
Of course if you say that all Josie fans are unattractive, or feeble, or lack self-esteem, or are just plain rude about them in any way, it ain't gonna go down well!
So I think it's inevitable that the Josie fans will go elsewhere, there's so much choice on the internet now, maybe we are seeing the beginning of the demise of DS! I hope not, but maybe it's time to look at the Ts and Cs and see if more open and honest debate can be encouraged. Just a thought.:)
Hi Vesna, I have no knowledge about anything in your post, therefore it makes no sense to me. I am sorry your friend is abused on the JJJAT although I must say it's a long time since I saw any abuse on there. Abuse is not good, I wish everyone would stop it.
I think that's a very interesting post - as was Kay's.
But this ^^^ once again causes me difficulty. Because while it acknowleges that Josie admitting to being violent against her boyfriends and selling a story about an ex forcing her to have an abortion caused controversies that upset her fans; it doesn't address - at all - why fans seem, for some unfathomable reason, to think that these things that she does shouldn't be criticised.
Of course they should be. I actually stopped posting for about two weeks after the abortion story. Prior to that, I'd always been considered to be in the funny corner of the court thread. I found huge amounts of humour in John James and Josie; I enjoyed mocking their magazine articles and physical awkwardness with each other.
But the abortion story turned my stomach - genuinely. How - still - is this more a discussion about how upset her fans got when this was being discussed than a discussion about how despicable a thing it was to do? Is it deflection? Or do her fans genuinely not get the logical black hole here?
Sweetpea ... I am not avoiding a follow up ... I have a raging temperature and am aching all over and seem to be getting worse by the minute ... have collapsed in bed and don't know when I am going to feel normal again ... I have to sleep and shake this awful thing off ... I worked very long hours this week and also got incredibly frozen to the marrow and now I am apparently paying the price ...
Get well soon xx
that is a really good post and i agree with you about ds it is on the decline and needs bringing up to date to flourish again
Take care of yourself, UV. Lots of sleep. Lots of water. Lots of sleep.
yes but realisticly how many of those member actively use it - i would put money on the fact that a lot dont
I didn't know that Alex, it's good news! I hope they are all keen to promote open and honest debate:)
Some people might say that this was the sort of meretricious twaddle that has been peddled by a certain sort of school for the last three or four decades ... I, of course, couldn't possibly comment ...
Thank you, darling ... do you think that hot and unbelievably sweet tea (no, I am not proud of it ... but have given up the cigarettes and have never been a big drinker ... and we all have to have a little bit of naughtiness in our lives, don't we ... ?
You have absolutely no idea. DS (457K members) is much larger than our tiny little BB part of the universe.
And of course BB is in decline in terms of viewer numbers, so DS will no doubt reflect that trend.
In any event DS will have few qualms about the departure of a few Josie fans from the forum, some of whom weren't well suited to the rigours of T&C forum protection in the first place.
Yes get well soon, UV, I look forward to reading your posts.
Look after yourself.
i am not a total ignoramus i am quite aware of that and stand by what i have said a lot of people join then very quickly find its not for them even out side the bb forums
I'd even stretch to a hot whiskey
Well done on the smokes, by the way.