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fraud trial is stopped because of Grayling's cuts.

imrightokimrightok Posts: 8,492
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in Politics #1
The good old tories. Now its going to cost more money to get it up and going again.


Fraud trial halted amid legal aid row http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27238201
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    nomad2kingnomad2king Posts: 8,415
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    #2
    Of course the barristers aren't just being awkward for the sake of it, are they?

    Why should those who are on legal aid, get more expensive legal help than those ineligible for legal aid and have to pay their own way?
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    plateletplatelet Posts: 26,386
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    #3
    imrightok wrote: »
    The good old tories.

    Absolutely outrageous that they expect a hardworking QC to do a case such as this for as little as £100,000. Do they now how expensive a good claret is?

    £130,000 a case would be far more reasonable as a minimum wage

    I'm with you "power to the people" we've got to stop these draconian cuts. It's also great that Alex Cameron QC stepped in and convinced the judge to stop the case otherwise these alleged fraudsters might have had to pay for their own defence out of the £4 million they allegedly stole
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    Deep PurpleDeep Purple Posts: 63,255
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    #4
    I think the Judge is a disgrace, and should be locked up for contempt. He should not be using trials for political purposes in this way.

    Hopefully the prosecution will appeal and get this overturned.
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    tim59tim59 Posts: 47,188
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    #5
    Deep Purple wrote: »
    I think the Judge is a disgrace, and should be locked up for contempt. He should not be using trials for political purposes in this way.

    Hopefully the prosecution will appeal and get this overturned.

    Very difficult to go to trail if no barrister, is willing to take the case on, plus even if the judge had tried to continue and the person was fould guilty, it just wastes more money because of going to appeal so what is the point of having a trial for weeks or as in a lot of these cases months, then having to do the whole thing again. Judge Anthony Leonard told Southwark Crown Court that the defence had made "very substantial... but unsuccessful" efforts to find barristers to fight the defendants' case.

    It would be a "violation" of the legal process to allow the case to proceed, he added.
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    Deep PurpleDeep Purple Posts: 63,255
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    #6
    tim59 wrote: »
    Very difficult to go to trail if no barrister, is willing to take the case on, plus even if the judge had tried to continue and the person was fould guilty, it just wastes more money because of going to appeal so what is the point of having a trial for weeks or as in a lot of these cases months, then having to do the whole thing again. Judge Anthony Leonard told Southwark Crown Court that the defence had made "very substantial... but unsuccessful" efforts to find barristers to fight the defendants' case.

    It would be a "violation" of the legal process to allow the case to proceed, he added.
    The MoJ said "suitably qualified" advocates could have taken the case.

    I've never heard of a case where barristers cant be found. Seems like they used this to complain about their cut in fees.
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    Jo MarchJo March Posts: 9,256
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    #7
    imrightok wrote: »
    The good old tories. Now its going to cost more money to get it up and going again.


    Fraud trial halted amid legal aid row http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27238201
    Alex Cameron QC - the prime minister's brother, working free of charge on the bid to halt the case - said the defendants would not get a fair trial.

    The MoJ said "suitably qualified" advocates could have taken the case.

    Would like to hear their conversation about this..:)
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    AnnsyreAnnsyre Posts: 109,504
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    #8
    Deep Purple wrote: »
    I've never heard of a case where barristers cant be found. Seems like they used this to complain about their cut in fees.

    They are all being very militant at the moment and have been striking.
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    GibsonSGGibsonSG Posts: 23,681
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    #9
    nomad2king wrote: »
    Of course the barristers aren't just being awkward for the sake of it, are they?

    Why should those who are on legal aid, get more expensive legal help than those ineligible for legal aid and have to pay their own way?

    Er, what! You clearly know nothing of the legal system because that remark is nonsense.
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    LostFoolLostFool Posts: 90,660
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    #10
    Jo March wrote: »
    Alex Cameron QC - the prime minister's brother, working free of charge on the bid to halt the case - said the defendants would not get a fair trial.

    The MoJ said "suitably qualified" advocates could have taken the case.

    Would like to hear their conversation about this..:)

    It's no different than when Cherie Blair used to take human rights cases against her husband's government. Ed Miliband's wife is has represented the energy companies against the Environment Department and landowners over wind farms and nuclear power station developments. The worlds of law and politics have always been incestuous.
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    Jo MarchJo March Posts: 9,256
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    #11
    LostFool wrote: »
    It's no different than when Cherie Blair used to take human rights cases against her husband's government. Ed Miliband's wife is has represented the energy companies against the Environment Department and landowners over wind farms and nuclear power station developments. The worlds of law and politics have always been incestuous.
    Did I say it was??

    Would still like to hear the conversation between the Cameron brothers about this particular subject
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    jmclaughjmclaugh Posts: 63,997
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    #12
    Oh dear, barristers effectively go on strike because they aren't getting enough dosh, poor loves.
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    Jol44Jol44 Posts: 21,048
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    #13
    Justice and a fair trial for the poor now thrown out the window by this government.

    Next stop their human rights.
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    MajlisMajlis Posts: 31,362
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    #14
    Hmm, the most generous legal aid system in Europe and it still isnt enough for the Legal Profession to keep the wolf from the door - cue complaints about the cost of living crisis.:(
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    Jol44Jol44 Posts: 21,048
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    #15
    Majlis wrote: »
    Hmm, the most generous legal aid system in Europe and it still isnt enough for the Legal Profession to keep the wolf from the door - cue complaints about the cost of living crisis.:(

    Are you accusing David Cameron's brother of playing politics?
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    jmclaughjmclaugh Posts: 63,997
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    #16
    Jol44 wrote: »
    Justice and a fair trial for the poor now thrown out the window by this government.

    Next stop their human rights.

    LOL. The defendants in this case are believed to have taken more than £5m from UK investors between 2008 and 2011 and are accused of fraud.
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    Jol44Jol44 Posts: 21,048
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    #17
    David Cameron's brother:

    Alexander Cameron, QC, representing five of those accused for free, argued the fees cut meant not enough competent barristers could be found to represent the defendants.

    He blamed it squarely on the cuts and said there was no way the men could get a fair trial.

    PM's Brother Wins Trial Halt On Legal Aid Cuts

    http://news.sky.com/story/1253176/pms-brother-wins-trial-halt-on-legal-aid-cuts
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    Jol44Jol44 Posts: 21,048
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    #18
    jmclaugh wrote: »
    LOL. The defendants in this case are believed to have taken more than £5m from UK investors between 2008 and 2011 and are accused of fraud.

    And you think its unique to this case? That no other case is going to be effected.

    'LOL'
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    MajlisMajlis Posts: 31,362
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    #19
    Jol44 wrote: »
    Are you accusing David Cameron's brother of playing politics?

    EH?? - he's simply trying to protect the gravy train, I dont see how 'politics' comes into it. :confused:
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    Jol44Jol44 Posts: 21,048
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    #20
    People throwing away their right to fair representation, just to stick up for the blue team. Pathetic.

    Some folks loyalty knows no bounds, even right down to selling their own right to what's fair and just.

    They'd be proud of their plebs.
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    jmclaughjmclaugh Posts: 63,997
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    #21
    Jol44 wrote: »
    And you think its unique to this case? That no other case is going to be effected.

    'LOL'

    Nope, that's the whole point of capping legal aid. According to the MoJ the defence barrister could expect to make £100k on this case and the defendants are afaik not what you would call the poor. If you reckon lawyers haven't been milking the legal aid system you're naive.
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    Iqbal_MIqbal_M Posts: 4,093
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    #22
    Everybody who is criticizes the Judges and Lawyers. You have no idea how hard Law is and how hard it is to get a job to practice law. As a Law student, we have to individually research every new problem we encounter in our studies, this can take a lot of time because we have wade through hundreds of pages of literature on the law and inspect all of the evidence, then we have make sense of it all, finally we have to put it all together and construct arguments to defend the client. That's why the law is so expensive. And it is also hard to get into practicing law because of the high standards law firms have when hiring new lawyers.
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    jmclaughjmclaugh Posts: 63,997
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    #23
    Iqbal_M wrote: »
    Everybody who is criticizes the Judges and Lawyers. You have no idea how hard Law is and how hard it is to get a job to practice law. As a Law student, we have to individually research every new problem we encounter in our studies, this can take a lot of time because we have wade through hundreds of pages of literature on the law and inspect all of the evidence, then we have make sense of it all, finally we have to put it all together and construct arguments to defend the client. That's why the law is so expensive. And it is also hard to get into practicing law because of the high standards law firms have when hiring new lawyers.

    Didums comes to mind.
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    clinchclinch Posts: 11,574
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    #24
    Iqbal_M wrote: »
    Everybody who is criticizes the Judges and Lawyers. You have no idea how hard Law is and how hard it is to get a job to practice law. As a Law student, we have to individually research every new problem we encounter in our studies, this can take a lot of time because we have wade through hundreds of pages of literature on the law and inspect all of the evidence, then we have make sense of it all, finally we have to put it all together and construct arguments to defend the client. That's why the law is so expensive. And it is also hard to get into practicing law because of the high standards law firms have when hiring new lawyers.


    It's so hard to get in because there are so many want to do it and that is because the financial rewards are so high. And I would say that, in the grand scheme of things, practising law is probably a doddle compared with open heart surgery or quantum physics, higher mathematics, engineering or researching cures for cancer.
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    tim59tim59 Posts: 47,188
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    #25
    jmclaugh wrote: »
    Nope, that's the whole point of capping legal aid. According to the MoJ the defence barrister could expect to make £100k on this case and the defendants are afaik not what you would call the poor. If you reckon lawyers haven't been milking the legal aid system you're naive.

    And i bet they earn every penny, these kind of cases can go on for months before they even get to the trail and even then the court cases could go on for weeks or months, alot of work is being done well before the trial date and in cases like this that can take a long time how much other work will a barrister have to turn down, and they have staff to pay and chamber cost.
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    jmclaughjmclaugh Posts: 63,997
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    #26
    tim59 wrote: »
    And i bet they earn every penny, these kind of cases can go on for months before they even get to the trail and even then the court cases could go on for weeks or months, alot of work is being done well before the trial date and in cases like this that can take a long time how much other work will a barrister have to turn down, and they have staff to pay and chamber cost.

    My heart bleeds for them
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