and I am not a Fascist, it's just quite uncomfortable if you are in the company of two people who are speaking a different language - they could be unknowingly slagging you off.
You could say the same about British expats living in mainland Europe! Learning the local lingo is neither a requirement nor very high on their list of priorities!
Though Brits on the mainland usually arent economic migrants : on the contrary their money is often highly beneficial for local economies.
Not really it isn't.
I have two friends who have lived in Madrid for over ten years, since Sue was seconded there in her communications job, and Dan, her husband got an architectural position.
They both speak Spanish of course, all day long at work, but if they meet for a drink or dinner in the evening it's only natural to lapse back into English.
No one turns a hair when they do.
I'm not thrilled by the prospect of floods of migrant workers. But that's part of the price of being in Europe. If the tables were turned and Poland was the land of riches then the boot would be on the other foot...... except we would have a much harder job fitting in. For a start, the Brits are on the whole crap at learning foreign languages. Second, other countries in Europe are far less tolerant.
What surprises me though is how many people in this thread jump to the conclusion that the Polish girls speak no English. Where in the story does it say that? Answer: It doesn't.
stud u like, Littlegreen42, Justicar - I am amazed that you are all so narrow minded and naive.
Does it not seem more plausible that the girls do have some basic English; enough to move to a foreign country, sort out housing, and apply for and hold down a job?
Further more, once they ordered their drink and were having a private conversation then what business is it of anyone's what language they choose to speak to each other? When you're on holiday in a foreign country do the waiters tell you to eff off because you don't speak the local language during your private conversations?
Though Brits on the mainland usually arent economic migrants : on the contrary their money is often highly beneficial for local economies.
A chalk and cheese comparison
So only those who are working must learn the language?
How about British construction workers who worked on building sites in Europe during the 80s, did they have a sound grasp of the country's language? Did you average brickie make sure they could speak the language of the country they were working in?
Not chalk and cheese at all, simply the British arrogance that everyone who doesn't have English as a language should learn the language before being allowed to enter the country!
and I am not a Fascist, it's just quite uncomfortable if you are in the company of two people who are speaking a different language - they could be unknowingly slagging you off.
Do you really worry about strangers talking about you? Do you listen into conversations in English, just to make sure they're not about you?
I'm not thrilled by the prospect of floods of migrant workers. But that's part of the price of being in Europe. If the tables were turned and Poland was the land of riches then the boot would be on the other foot...... except we would have a much harder job fitting in. For a start, the Brits are on the whole crap at learning foreign languages. Second, other countries in Europe are far less tolerant.
way less tolerant
1/2 million Brits suddently rock up in Poland and there would be blood .
I find it odd that foreigners do not bother to learn English. It should be a requirement before entry.
The first poster said that the two women were talking to each other, and mentioning the glass collector indicates that they were sitting down. Quite a few people start getting paranoid when foreigners from the same country start talking to each other in that country's language. Quite a few people feel uncomfortable around things they don't understand that aren't a threat to them.
Quite a few people start getting paranoid when foreigners from the same country start talking to each other in that country's language. Quite a few people feel uncomfortable around things they don't understand that aren't a threat to them.
Yes ignorants, racists, fascists and the list go on...
Regular well adjusted individuals are not threatened by other languages.
We have a fairly large Eastern European community here and they don't seem to mix with the locals, but then I dont tend to mix with the locals much either. The younger ones do mix with locals but thats because they are all at school together. I guess at some point the communities will mix better than they currently do.
What I do think is unfair is the Job situation, we have alot of unemployed people yet companies are advertising jobs within the EU that would happily be taken by people already here. These are minimum wage jobs in local factorys and warehouses. My husband worked for a large distribution centre and out of curiosity asked a Eastern European man how long they had lived in the UK, and was told 3 days, he came here just to take this job The job had been advertised and interviewed for outside of the UK. This distribution centre is huge and about 90% of its workforce are from Eastern Europe.
I can see exactly whey people think their jobs are being taken by Eastern Europeans.
and I am not a Fascist, it's just quite uncomfortable if you are in the company of two people who are speaking a different language - they could be unknowingly slagging you off.
Well I'd be a bit non plus send getting IDed for a lighter.
1. You're not in their company though.
2. they'll be knowingly be slagging you off. And if you don't know about it, so what? I suppose everybody should talk in such a manner to let people overhearing, understand them fully.:rolleyes:
You could say the same about British expats living in mainland Europe! Learning the local lingo is neither a requirement nor very high on their list of priorities!
Most people I know are more than trilingual and that includes me.
OMG!!! What is it with people not understanding analogies these days! Its a reasonable analogy or comparison to use when dealing with attitudes regarding the seemingly very common belief that all foreigners setting foot on our green hills for longer than 2 weeks, should be as fluent in English as a professor of English Language from Oxbridge!!
stud u like, Littlegreen42, Justicar - I am amazed that you are all so narrow minded and naive.
Does it not seem more plausible that the girls do have some basic English; enough to move to a foreign country, sort out housing, and apply for and hold down a job?
They probably do. However, as I made no comment about the girls I'm wondering why you felt the need to say I'm narrow minded and naive.
I can only speak from my own experience, but we have quite a large Eastern European community and I have never witnessed any negative reactions towards them. Although they do form their own little communities as a lot of people do when living abroad, they are also friendly towards the rest of us as much as their grasp of english allows for. I think the influx has calmed down now and a lot are heading back as they are not getting the work they though they would so the ones that are still in my community have properly settled here and have been here for a while so have integrated well. You are always going to get people who will see them as "job stealers" but, to be honest, I wouldn't want some of the jobs they have. As for the woman who's son is an outcast, even if the Eastern European pupils do keep to themselves, I'm sure he is not the only English pupil at the school!
With regard to mass immigration the bit in bold highlights the main problem in my opinion.
Unless mass immigration effects someone personally, they just don't seem to care.Part of the I'm alright jack society with which we are living in today.
You might not want to do those jobs tellywatcher, but someone does.You know,the ones that did these jobs before mass immigration arrived at our shores.
It's the ones at the bottom of our society that have suffered the most from mass immigration.
Now with so few jobs available they are branded benefit scrounging scum by the Tories or racist by labour if they complain.
Not that it excuses abuse of immigrants, they are just people looking for a better life.
It's the politicians and an indifferent electorate which should take the blame and the abuse.
The quick answer to the OP is "yes". People do have a right to feel aggrieved at the scale of Eastern European immigration. It's ironic how so many have been employed in the service industries, when they are poorly suited. Anyone who has travelled extensively in Eastern Europe will know that "service with a smile" is not a natural attribute there.
We said how lovely it was, recently, in Amsterdam, to be served exclusively by very friendly locals. To serve in a bar or restaurant there, you would have to be fluent in Dutch, which rules out just about everyone else. We pay the price for speaking the world language.
I do find it irksome when immigrants who set up home here, continue to talk to each other (and especially their kids) in their native tongue. It can only benefit them to become more fluent in English, and they should use the opportunity to practise it.
Its a reasonable analogy or comparison to use when dealing with attitudes regarding the seemingly very common belief that all foreigners setting foot on our green hills for longer than 2 weeks, should be as fluent in English as a professor of English Language from Oxbridge!!
I'm wondering who you thought was expressing those attitudes in this thread. I certainly didn't, which is why I wondered why you said it in response to me.
I do find it irksome when immigrants who set up home here, continue to talk to each other (and especially their kids) in their native tongue. It can only benefit them to become more fluent in English, and they should use the opportunity to practise it.
Comments
There's a polish girl in my office who speaks 3 languages. How many do you speak?
The arrogance of the British knows no bounds!
Though Brits on the mainland usually arent economic migrants : on the contrary their money is often highly beneficial for local economies.
A chalk and cheese comparison
Not really it isn't.
I have two friends who have lived in Madrid for over ten years, since Sue was seconded there in her communications job, and Dan, her husband got an architectural position.
They both speak Spanish of course, all day long at work, but if they meet for a drink or dinner in the evening it's only natural to lapse back into English.
No one turns a hair when they do.
What surprises me though is how many people in this thread jump to the conclusion that the Polish girls speak no English. Where in the story does it say that? Answer: It doesn't.
stud u like, Littlegreen42, Justicar - I am amazed that you are all so narrow minded and naive.
Does it not seem more plausible that the girls do have some basic English; enough to move to a foreign country, sort out housing, and apply for and hold down a job?
Further more, once they ordered their drink and were having a private conversation then what business is it of anyone's what language they choose to speak to each other? When you're on holiday in a foreign country do the waiters tell you to eff off because you don't speak the local language during your private conversations?
So only those who are working must learn the language?
How about British construction workers who worked on building sites in Europe during the 80s, did they have a sound grasp of the country's language? Did you average brickie make sure they could speak the language of the country they were working in?
Not chalk and cheese at all, simply the British arrogance that everyone who doesn't have English as a language should learn the language before being allowed to enter the country!
Do you really worry about strangers talking about you? Do you listen into conversations in English, just to make sure they're not about you?
way less tolerant
1/2 million Brits suddently rock up in Poland and there would be blood .
The first poster said that the two women were talking to each other, and mentioning the glass collector indicates that they were sitting down. Quite a few people start getting paranoid when foreigners from the same country start talking to each other in that country's language. Quite a few people feel uncomfortable around things they don't understand that aren't a threat to them.
whoever pays the piper - essentially.
Otherwise - it would be nice but thats about it .Poles have a pressing survival issue.Theres no choice.
Yes ignorants, racists, fascists and the list go on...
Regular well adjusted individuals are not threatened by other languages.
I notice that you have not answered the most pertinent part of my post!
What I do think is unfair is the Job situation, we have alot of unemployed people yet companies are advertising jobs within the EU that would happily be taken by people already here. These are minimum wage jobs in local factorys and warehouses. My husband worked for a large distribution centre and out of curiosity asked a Eastern European man how long they had lived in the UK, and was told 3 days, he came here just to take this job The job had been advertised and interviewed for outside of the UK. This distribution centre is huge and about 90% of its workforce are from Eastern Europe.
I can see exactly whey people think their jobs are being taken by Eastern Europeans.
Well I'd be a bit non plus send getting IDed for a lighter.
1. You're not in their company though.
2. they'll be knowingly be slagging you off. And if you don't know about it, so what? I suppose everybody should talk in such a manner to let people overhearing, understand them fully.:rolleyes:
Most people I know are more than trilingual and that includes me.
Who said that on this thread?
They probably do. However, as I made no comment about the girls I'm wondering why you felt the need to say I'm narrow minded and naive.
No one why?
Well its a bit too historical ....
Bricklaying in Dusseldorf evidently didnt need much knowledge of German .?
With regard to mass immigration the bit in bold highlights the main problem in my opinion.
Unless mass immigration effects someone personally, they just don't seem to care.Part of the I'm alright jack society with which we are living in today.
You might not want to do those jobs tellywatcher, but someone does.You know,the ones that did these jobs before mass immigration arrived at our shores.
It's the ones at the bottom of our society that have suffered the most from mass immigration.
Now with so few jobs available they are branded benefit scrounging scum by the Tories or racist by labour if they complain.
Not that it excuses abuse of immigrants, they are just people looking for a better life.
It's the politicians and an indifferent electorate which should take the blame and the abuse.
Good for you!
We said how lovely it was, recently, in Amsterdam, to be served exclusively by very friendly locals. To serve in a bar or restaurant there, you would have to be fluent in Dutch, which rules out just about everyone else. We pay the price for speaking the world language.
I do find it irksome when immigrants who set up home here, continue to talk to each other (and especially their kids) in their native tongue. It can only benefit them to become more fluent in English, and they should use the opportunity to practise it.
Equally, packing crates in a warehouse in Scunthorpe doesn't need much knowledge of English!
Well, seeing as you said
I'm wondering who you thought was expressing those attitudes in this thread. I certainly didn't, which is why I wondered why you said it in response to me.
I don't disagree with this!