Ting, you know where I stand on this debate: I don't see any real barrier to there being a female doctor; I can imagine them introducing it at some point in the future; I don't want it to happen at all. I was just addressing a post that didn't really contribute anything to the debate. Furthermore, people who get up in arms about political correctness really irritate me, as it's essentially a continuation of that most treasured of british traditions and characteristics: being polite.
I think I recall an Africa-Gallifreyan in one of the Tennant episodes. last iof the Time Lords, maybe? But Dogmatix (forever my hero since the Dæmons thread;)) has a good point about why Time Lords would have human skin tones. Why not a green one? Or a blue one? Why just male and female? Who not a different gender altogether? Or a Time Lord that's "above" the idea of gender entirely?
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If it's a female Doctor, can we have Daniela Nardini please? (If they can't afford Stephanie Cole, that is).
Even earlier than that. I seem to recall the 2nd Doctor was offered a black incarnation before his forced regeneration in War Games.
Ting, you know where I stand on this debate: I don't see any real barrier to there being a female doctor; I can imagine them introducing it at some point in the future; I don't want it to happen at all. I was just addressing a post that didn't really contribute anything to the debate. Furthermore, people who get up in arms about political correctness really irritate me, as it's essentially a continuation of that most treasured of british traditions and characteristics: being polite.
Political correctness, in my view, is more about cowardice than politeness. People are so afraid of offending someone that they end up being afraid to say anything at all.
If we do end up with a female Doctor, in the interests of equality and balance, how about a Mr Marple?
Ah, of course, silly me. It doesn't work that way around...
The Doctor is a male, end of. Sorry if that offends, but there it is.
Perhaps those calling for a female Doctor might consider devising a new character instead instead of trying to impose gender politics on an existing one.
Wildbill_hicock has put a good argument about the PC stuff...so I won't go there...but I will point out that the comparisons that people are making with the Doctor in order to justify the need not to have a female Doctor doesn't make any sense....
For one, being famel is a big part of being Miss Marple....the little old lady that the naughty criminals won't even think would solve the crime so well....because she is just an old lady....and she is human, if she wanted to go for a sex change, she is more than welcome too...but you are comparing her to an alien who is able to change form within the concept of the show.....the Ninth Doctor said that he may end up with no head...so what is stopping him from becoming female? Miss Marple is just Miss Marple....she has had different actresses play her, but never is it acknowledged tha she is a different person/personality/hairstyle/tastes/nose....and the Doctor is the Doctor...but not because he is male....he just happens to be male...so far...;)
Wildbill_hicock has put a good argument about the PC stuff...so I won't go there...but I will point out that the comparisons that people are making with the Doctor in order to justify the need not to have a female Doctor doesn't make any sense....
For one, being famel is a big part of being Miss Marple....the little old lady that the naughty criminals won't even think would solve the crime so well....because she is just an old lady....and she is human, if she wanted to go for a sex change, she is more than welcome too...but you are comparing her to an alien who is able to change form within the concept of the show.....the Ninth Doctor said that he may end up with no head...so what is stopping him from becoming female? Miss Marple is just Miss Marple....she has had different actresses play her, but never is it acknowledged tha she is a different person/personality/hairstyle/tastes/nose....and the Doctor is the Doctor...but not because he is male....he just happens to be male...so far...;)
This would be more convincing to me (well, not really, but still) were I not firmly of the opinion that the only real screen Miss Marple was Joan Hickson. Some things shouldn't be messed with.
This would be more convincing to me (well, not really, but still) were I not firmly of the opinion that the only real screen Miss Marple was Joan Hickson. Some things shouldn't be messed with.
:D:D Well I did like her as well, the newest incarnation is rubbish, but I did like Margaret Rutherford, although she wasn't strictly speaking like Miss Marple at all.
:D:D Well I did like her as well, the newest incarnation is rubbish, but I did like Margaret Rutherford, although she wasn't strictly speaking like Miss Marple at all.
Margaret Rutherford was about as much like Miss Marple as Basil Rathbone was like the 'real' Sherlock Holmes. Hickson and Brett were much closer to the spirit of the books, as was David Suchet's Poirot (I was never convinced by Peter Ustinov).
Margaret Rutherford was about as much like Miss Marple as Basil Rathbone was like the 'real' Sherlock Holmes. Hickson and Brett were much closer to the spirit of the books, as was David Suchet's Poirot (I was never convinced by Peter Ustinov).
I completley agree with you (I love Suchet and I have a lot of the episodes and I have all of the books!). I still enjoyed both Margaret Rutherford and Peter Ustinov, because it was a bit silly. I know that Agathe Christie herself did not rate them very much, and I think Hickson was Christie's favourite Marple.
I completley agree with you (I love Suchet and I have a lot of the episodes and I have all of the books!). I still enjoyed both Margaret Rutherford and Peter Ustinov, because it was a bit silly. I know that Agathe Christie herself did not rate them very much, and I think Hickson was Christie's favourite Marple.
Sorry, I do know a lot about Agatha Christie:o.
Agatha Christie is one of my favourite authors. I only recently finished reading an early (ie before things got a bit out of hand regarding the title) edition of the-one-which-is-now-And Then There Were None....
Political correctness, in my view, is more about cowardice than politeness. People are so afraid of offending someone that they end up being afraid to say anything at all.
As far as I'm concerned, people who vociferously complain about Political Correctness are just being wilfully ingnorant.
Agatha Christie is one of my favourite authors. I only recently finished reading an early (ie before things got a bit out of hand regarding the title) edition of the-one-which-is-now-And Then There Were None....
Well we have one thing in common, I love all her books and I know the one which you are referring to:D. Ok, this is not meant as something strange, but did you at least enjoy trying to decypher all the clues to Agatha Christie novels in the Unicorn and the Wasp? I had a ball, but I'm not sure I got all of them:)
As far as I'm concerned, people who vociferously complain about Political Correctness are just being wilfully ingnorant.
Political Correctness has led to oversensitive idiots perpetrating all kinds of moronic acts, from ordering an old lady to stop displaying her pottery pig collection in the window in case it offended Muslims to frantically trying to avoid putting the word Christmas on their Christmas cards. It has left us in a world where American newscasters mistakenly refer to citizens of third world countries as 'African-American' because they think that's a global term for 'black', and where you can't specify that you require a decent standard of spoken English in a job vacancy because it's discriminatory against non English speakers, even if the job you're advertising actually involves speaking to people all day! It's ludicrous, pointless, an insult to our collective intelligence and a blight on society.
Well we have one thing in common, I love all her books and I know the one which you are referring to:D. Ok, this is not meant as something strange, but did you at least enjoy trying to decypher all the clues to Agatha Christie novels in the Unicorn and the Wasp? I had a ball, but I'm not sure I got all of them:)
That was quite fun. Though they cheated a bit with Why Didn't They Ask Evans.:)
Apparently there was talk of having a female Doctor in 2003, when it was first announced that the programme would be coming back. They might've stood a chance of making it work then, but I doubt they would now. It would be like permanently changing the TARDIS's exterior to something other than a policebox, it would just be too radical a change for most of the audience. They might as well stick to tradition and keep the Doctor a man.
Well, regarding political correctness, this is actually sexism - and I'm going for it!
The Doctor should be MALE! He always has been, always will be. Why change the habit of a lifetime? The Doctor has always been a bloke! For goodness sake, why should anyone want to see "Nurse Who" (thats what it would end up being nick-named).
The Doctor has met female 'Doctors' in his travels such as The Rani , Romana, and River Song...why not leave it there?
Apparently there was talk of having a female Doctor in 2003, when it was first announced that the programme would be coming back. They might've stood a chance of making it work then, but I doubt they would now. It would be like permanently changing the TARDIS's exterior to something other than a policebox, it would just be too radical a change for most of the audience. They might as well stick to tradition and keep the Doctor a man.
There has been talk of it every time the Doctor has regenerated since 1981. It's never seriously going to be considered.
Political Correctness has led to oversensitive idiots perpetrating all kinds of moronic acts, from ordering an old lady to stop displaying her pottery pig collection in the window in case it offended Muslims to frantically trying to avoid putting the word Christmas on their Christmas cards. It has left us in a world where American newscasters mistakenly refer to citizens of third world countries as 'African-American' because they think that's a global term for 'black', and where you can't specify that you require a decent standard of spoken English in a job vacancy because it's discriminatory against non English speakers, even if the job you're advertising actually involves speaking to people all day! It's ludicrous, pointless, an insult to our collective intelligence and a blight on society.
That was quite fun. Though they cheated a bit with Why Didn't They Ask Evans.:)
I know, but they were being inventive:D. The actress playing Agatha (forgot her name) was quite good. Actually I think I know what I'm going to watch tonight, and this time I'll get all the references. It's nice to meet another Christie fan, I feel a wee bit old-fashioned sometimes.:o
Political Correctness has led to oversensitive idiots perpetrating all kinds of moronic acts, from ordering an old lady to stop displaying her pottery pig collection in the window in case it offended Muslims to frantically trying to avoid putting the word Christmas on their Christmas cards. It has left us in a world where American newscasters mistakenly refer to citizens of third world countries as 'African-American' because they think that's a global term for 'black', and where you can't specify that you require a decent standard of spoken English in a job vacancy because it's discriminatory against non English speakers, even if the job you're advertising actually involves speaking to people all day! It's ludicrous, pointless, an insult to our collective intelligence and a blight on society.
There have been casualties along the way, though frankly I think you should take the majority of these cases with a pinch of salt. On the other hand, the movement towards political correctness has been instrumental in reducing racism, sexism, homophobia, xenophobia, class prejudice and all manner of facets of public life that are far more unpleasent than the small number of incidents where it has been over-zealously implemented.
Apparently there was talk of having a female Doctor in 2003, when it was first announced that the programme would be coming back. They might've stood a chance of making it work then, but I doubt they would now. It would be like permanently changing the TARDIS's exterior to something other than a policebox, it would just be too radical a change for most of the audience. They might as well stick to tradition and keep the Doctor a man.
I agree.
There's also the problem with addressing the sexual element-the gender-changed Doctor would now have - ahem -"female organs" instead of "male organs". Which would be very awkward, considering the fact Doctor Who has a big audience of young kids....their parents might end up having to give the little ones "the talk" ...:o
There have been casualties along the way, though frankly I think you should take the majority of these cases with a pinch of salt. On the other hand, the movement towards political correctness has been instrumental in reducing racism, sexism, homophobia, xenophobia, class prejudice and all manner of facets of public life that are far more unpleasent than the small number of incidents where it has been over-zealously implemented.
I don't agree. Common courtesy and common sense should be all that society requires, not moronic laws restricting what you can or can't say or write.
I don't agree. Common courtesy and common sense should be all that society requires, not moronic laws restricting what you can or can't say or write.
This is a somewhat controversial issue. Were the BBC right to
give Nick Griffin a platform for his reprehensible views, and thus risk the fact Griffin might have gained new supporters? Or banned him from TV and risk making a "free speech martyr" out of him? I favour the first option, even though I absolutely despise Griffin and the BNP, but I know a lot of people who thought broadcasters shouldn't allow Griffin airtime.
I don't agree. Common courtesy and common sense should be all that society requires, not moronic laws restricting what you can or can't say or write.
That is what the majority of political correctness is! There has been an enormous campaign in the right wing press to demonise political correctness as some kind of coordinated attack on individual liberty. In reality it's just a semi-formalised set of conventions that suggest a consensus of what is polite. Furthermore, political correctness has nothing to do with the legal system; I suspect what you really object to is when governments try to legislate according to political correctness. I'm sure you have no objection to most of what is politically correct (not using racial epithets, for example, is politically correct).
This is a somewhat controversial issue. Were the BBC right to
give Nick Griffin a platform for his reprehensible views, and thus risk the fact Griffin might have gained new supporters? Or banned him from TV and risk making a "free speech martyr" out of him? I favour the first option, even though I absolutely despise Griffin and the BNP, but I know a lot of people who thought broadcasters shouldn't allow Griffin airtime.
I agree. To deny Griffin a platform might have been satisfying in one respect, but it would have gone against the basics principles of the democracy in which we live. Everyone should have a voice!
That is what the majority of political correctness is! There has been an enormous campaign in the right wing press to demonise political correctness as some kind of coordinated attack on individual liberty. In reality it's just a semi-formalised set of conventions that suggest a consensus of what is polite. Furthermore, political correctness has nothing to do with the legal system; I suspect what you really object to is when governments try to legislate according to political correctness. I'm sure you have no objection to most of what is politically correct (not using racial epithets, for example, is politically correct).
What I object to is the whole idea of a 'formalised' set of conventions, whether you stick a 'semi' in front of it or not. Yes, it's the attempted enforcement of such rules that causes theproblems, but that wouldn't happen if the attempt to establish a formal concensus hadn't been made to start with. Trying to force someone to be polite, to accept a majority view on what is or isn't acceptable, is an attack on individual liberty, and it shouldn't even be necessary. Am I right wing? Yes. And perfectly happy to be so.
I agree. To deny Griffin a platform might have been satisfying in one respect, but it would have gone against the basics principles of the democracy in which we live. Everyone should have a voice!
Except the Welsh, obviously.:)
What I object to is the whole idea of a 'formalised' set of conventions, whether you stick a 'semi' in front of it or not. Yes, it's the attempted enforcement of such rules that causes theproblems, but that wouldn't happen if the attempt to establish a formal concensus hadn't been made to start with. Trying to force someone to be polite, to accept a majority view on what is or isn't acceptable,is an attack on individual liberty, and it shouldn't even be necessary. Am I right wing? Yes. And perfectly happy to be so.
I think we fundamentally differ on this issue Ting. I'm happy to leave it here. It's not like you're saying the riddler wasn't ginger or anything. Then we'd have a real argument on our hands.
With regards to a male to female Doctor....there's also the fact that a lot of the audience would probably be uncomfortable with the idea of the hero changing gender. Suddenly, a character defined for over 45 years as a male, changes their gender. It would probably cause too much of a shock, and some-maybe many of the viewers-would switch off. Something like the film "Orlando", which was an art-house film aimed at an adult audience, could get away with changing the protagonist's gender, but not a mainstream program like "Doctor Who".
Comments
Ting, you know where I stand on this debate: I don't see any real barrier to there being a female doctor; I can imagine them introducing it at some point in the future; I don't want it to happen at all. I was just addressing a post that didn't really contribute anything to the debate. Furthermore, people who get up in arms about political correctness really irritate me, as it's essentially a continuation of that most treasured of british traditions and characteristics: being polite.
Even earlier than that. I seem to recall the 2nd Doctor was offered a black incarnation before his forced regeneration in War Games.
Political correctness, in my view, is more about cowardice than politeness. People are so afraid of offending someone that they end up being afraid to say anything at all.
Wildbill_hicock has put a good argument about the PC stuff...so I won't go there...but I will point out that the comparisons that people are making with the Doctor in order to justify the need not to have a female Doctor doesn't make any sense....
For one, being famel is a big part of being Miss Marple....the little old lady that the naughty criminals won't even think would solve the crime so well....because she is just an old lady....and she is human, if she wanted to go for a sex change, she is more than welcome too...but you are comparing her to an alien who is able to change form within the concept of the show.....the Ninth Doctor said that he may end up with no head...so what is stopping him from becoming female? Miss Marple is just Miss Marple....she has had different actresses play her, but never is it acknowledged tha she is a different person/personality/hairstyle/tastes/nose....and the Doctor is the Doctor...but not because he is male....he just happens to be male...so far...;)
This would be more convincing to me (well, not really, but still) were I not firmly of the opinion that the only real screen Miss Marple was Joan Hickson. Some things shouldn't be messed with.
I completley agree with you (I love Suchet and I have a lot of the episodes and I have all of the books!). I still enjoyed both Margaret Rutherford and Peter Ustinov, because it was a bit silly. I know that Agathe Christie herself did not rate them very much, and I think Hickson was Christie's favourite Marple.
Sorry, I do know a lot about Agatha Christie:o.
Agatha Christie is one of my favourite authors. I only recently finished reading an early (ie before things got a bit out of hand regarding the title) edition of the-one-which-is-now-And Then There Were None....
As far as I'm concerned, people who vociferously complain about Political Correctness are just being wilfully ingnorant.
Well we have one thing in common, I love all her books and I know the one which you are referring to:D. Ok, this is not meant as something strange, but did you at least enjoy trying to decypher all the clues to Agatha Christie novels in the Unicorn and the Wasp? I had a ball, but I'm not sure I got all of them:)
That was quite fun. Though they cheated a bit with Why Didn't They Ask Evans.:)
The Doctor should be MALE! He always has been, always will be. Why change the habit of a lifetime? The Doctor has always been a bloke! For goodness sake, why should anyone want to see "Nurse Who" (thats what it would end up being nick-named).
The Doctor has met female 'Doctors' in his travels such as The Rani , Romana, and River Song...why not leave it there?
I know, but they were being inventive:D. The actress playing Agatha (forgot her name) was quite good. Actually I think I know what I'm going to watch tonight, and this time I'll get all the references. It's nice to meet another Christie fan, I feel a wee bit old-fashioned sometimes.:o
There's nothing wrong with being old fashioned. Old fashioned is good. Just ask Brigadier Lethbridge Stewart.
I agree.
There's also the problem with addressing the sexual element-the gender-changed Doctor would now have - ahem -"female organs" instead of "male organs".
I don't agree. Common courtesy and common sense should be all that society requires, not moronic laws restricting what you can or can't say or write.
This is a somewhat controversial issue. Were the BBC right to
give Nick Griffin a platform for his reprehensible views, and thus risk the fact Griffin might have gained new supporters? Or banned him from TV and risk making a "free speech martyr" out of him? I favour the first option, even though I absolutely despise Griffin and the BNP, but I know a lot of people who thought broadcasters shouldn't allow Griffin airtime.
That is what the majority of political correctness is! There has been an enormous campaign in the right wing press to demonise political correctness as some kind of coordinated attack on individual liberty. In reality it's just a semi-formalised set of conventions that suggest a consensus of what is polite. Furthermore, political correctness has nothing to do with the legal system; I suspect what you really object to is when governments try to legislate according to political correctness. I'm sure you have no objection to most of what is politically correct (not using racial epithets, for example, is politically correct).
Except the Welsh, obviously.:) What I object to is the whole idea of a 'formalised' set of conventions, whether you stick a 'semi' in front of it or not. Yes, it's the attempted enforcement of such rules that causes theproblems, but that wouldn't happen if the attempt to establish a formal concensus hadn't been made to start with. Trying to force someone to be polite, to accept a majority view on what is or isn't acceptable, is an attack on individual liberty, and it shouldn't even be necessary. Am I right wing? Yes. And perfectly happy to be so.