it is how you value it - and then number of people posting here say that they did things to extend their knowledge - education ....
and these tend not to complain about no jobs....
(but some did what they liked which there is a job more or less obvious).
A degree was never a open door to a job - but it made you aware or within reach of more doors perhaps...
In times past you had to be good academically and with seam determination .. so there was some self selection ...
But we do need more people to do all sort of things - and finding something that you love as your work or work that keep you going so that you can do what you love seems to be a good target.
and just drifting off to any uni on a soft subject or with no real aims - is not a good way.
I don't have one, left school at 16 with 4 GCEs. My boss has one. In our previous careers, I was an NCO, he was a Captain. Degrees used to work, I'm not sure much has changed. You can always find other examples though, bosses without a bit of paper to their name, and graduates stacking shelves, etc. Life is what you make it. University sounds fun though, in some ways I wish I'd tried. Nobody bothered to tell me I could get there if I pushed for it.
Interest, same as why I am doing Social Science and Politics. They want to learn about these things... They interest them.
As long as the under grad realises that a degree in a subject will not necessarily equate to a job related to that subject, I can not see the problem.
Why spend three years (or more) studying and learning about something that does not make you tick. If you love subject, why not expand your knowledge about it. Why should it be about putting something into society?
My degree is my hobby now, sod career prospects. I want at least part of my life to not be related to work.
The universities seem to oversell the career prospects for certain study pathways, which is not fair. There is nothing wrong with just learning for the love of it but people should not be given false hopes by Higher education organisations.
Doing a degree for fun/interest is fine if you can afford to do it. I'm comfortably retired and did think of popping off and doing another degree this time in 20th Century History but realistically can just as easily quench my thirst for the subject reading at home or these days abroad
I loved my degree, it was something I would have loved to do for a career. What I do now has a tenuous link to it, but it was essential to get the job.
I have one, I got it from a good well respected University. I went for an interview once and the guy that was interviewing me started asking me about my degree, and how getting into that University must have been hard work. I think I may have shot myself in the foot and ruined my chances when I said I felt it was easy to get into that University and I chose it because I liked the Campus.:D:o I have to say though I am proud that I managed to get into the University that I did and I should be because I did it through my own hard work. I quit a good job to go there, I had been doing an evening course to get myself there whilst working full-time. But as usual I always don't feel right when I talk about my achievements, something that my Dad has also pointed out about all of us. I chose the subjects that most interested me and I did my degree to make something of myself, not work wise as I was doing quite well for myself before but to help me grow as a person that and I enjoyed learning (strange person that I am)
It's interesting how defensive and agitated people get about degrees and types of university - it's quite an alien concept in our office. Everybody either went to Cardiff, Aberystwyth or Bangor, and no one considers one better than the other, nor any degree subject better than another. It's what you bring to the job as a person that counts here.
I'm personally dubious about what a degree is really worth, beyond an in-depth subject knowledge. We've recently taken on several graduates and non-graduates - all young people in their early twenties. The people who have worked but don't have degrees have proven to be far, far better workers than the graduates; some of whom are so clueless that I find it incredible that they've been awarded any qualifications at all. Even the standard of their writing is rubbish. I shouldn't have to send a report back to a graduate three times because it doesn't make sense.
I know degrees are used as criteria to filter out job applicants; but it's not right. If I'm honest it's the last thing I'd look at. I'd choose experience over a degree any time.
I applied for and was rejected by Oxford (gutted, because I hated the process and longed to reject them!), and my current boss said that I should put that on my CV, as it would 'show what calibre I was'. I pointed out that my CV contains information on how I achieved 100% in all English exams for GCSE and AS/ A Level, a distinction in an Advanced Extension Award and numerous other high level scores, from which they could easily work out what my academic calibre was!
To be honest, once you've had a 'real' job, the most important thing on your CV is your latest role.
I applied for and was rejected by Oxford (gutted, because I hated the process and longed to reject them!), and my current boss said that I should put that on my CV, as it would 'show what calibre I was'. I pointed out that my CV contains information on how I achieved 100% in all English exams for GCSE and AS/ A Level, a distinction in an Advanced Extension Award and numerous other high level scores, from which they could easily work out what my academic calibre was!
To be honest, once you've had a 'real' job, the most important thing on your CV is your latest role.
My brother was rejected from Cambridge, he said he was glad as he didn't like the process either and didn't really want to go there but his school said he should apply as it would look good.
I read an article a couple of weeks ago where it said that the average arts graduate earns £15,000 less over a lifetime than somebody with no degree at all.
He was referring to 'creative arts', not the Arts which includes Humanities.
And you take an article written by Fraser Nelson seriously!
The man is a buffoon! He claims to be an expert in everything, until proven wrong and then goes on some long and rambling explanation of why he was wrong hoping people will lose the will to live before he finishes talking!
Doing a degree for fun/interest is fine if you can afford to do it. I'm comfortably retired and did think of popping off and doing another degree this time in 20th Century History but realistically can just as easily quench my thirst for the subject reading at home or these days abroad
Fantastic choice. I am wanting to have a crack at 20th century Art/history (specifically architecture). I have already had some of my personal work referenced by local coucils for school/college study guides on local buildings of interest.
I could sit for hours researching about social housing and regeneration of post war Britain. I know what a sad boring git that makes me but I just find modernism fascinating.
It's interesting how defensive and agitated people get about degrees and types of university - it's quite an alien concept in our office. Everybody either went to Cardiff, Aberystwyth or Bangor, and no one considers one better than the other, nor any degree subject better than another. It's what you bring to the job as a person that counts here.
I'm personally dubious about what a degree is really worth, beyond an in-depth subject knowledge. We've recently taken on several graduates and non-graduates - all young people in their early twenties. The people who have worked but don't have degrees have proven to be far, far better workers than the graduates; some of whom are so clueless that I find it incredible that they've been awarded any qualifications at all. Even the standard of their writing is rubbish. I shouldn't have to send a report back to a graduate three times because it doesn't make sense.
I know degrees are used as criteria to filter out job applicants; but it's not right. If I'm honest it's the last thing I'd look at. I'd choose experience over a degree any time.
This is where I think OU grads come into their own.
Most have got years of work experience, canprove they can work whilst manage to do a part time degree (along with family commitments) and still have the same qualification from a brick uni.
Fantastic choice. I am wanting to have a crack at 20th century Art/history (specifically architecture). I have already had some of my personal work referenced by local coucils for school/college study guides on local buildings of interest.
I could sit for hours researching about social housing and regeneration of post war Britain. I know what a sad boring git that makes me but I just find modernism fascinating.
You should have look at some of the work being produced by Post-Medieval/Historical archaeology in this area. Some of the results are really quite surprising.
He was referring to 'creative arts', not the Arts which includes Humanities.
And you take an article written by Fraser Nelson seriously!
The man is a buffoon! He claims to be an expert in everything, until proven wrong and then goes on some long and rambling explanation of why he was wrong hoping people will lose the will to live before he finishes talking!
Actually, there is a degree of overlap between the arts and creative arts.
Nelson sourced all of his figures from the government's own research.
My brother was rejected from Cambridge, he said he was glad as he didn't like the process either and didn't really want to go there but his school said he should apply as it would look good.
Yeah, my school were the ones pushing the application. They called my mum after I came back to snoop on how it went, and when she told them she didn't think I'd accept an offer they were really aggressive about it!
They were furious I applied to Oxford anyway because Cambridge would have been a far 'easier' prospect.
I applied for and was rejected by Oxford (gutted, because I hated the process and longed to reject them!), and my current boss said that I should put that on my CV, as it would 'show what calibre I was'. I pointed out that my CV contains information on how I achieved 100% in all English exams for GCSE and AS/ A Level, a distinction in an Advanced Extension Award and numerous other high level scores, from which they could easily work out what my academic calibre was!
To be honest, once you've had a 'real' job, the most important thing on your CV is your latest role.
Putting a rejection on your CV? How crazy is that? It's like putting how you nearly completed a marathon or made it to the final round of a competition.
Do you actually mention that you got 100% in all your English exams? Again, it's not something I'm sure I'd do. I have been known to 'casually' drop it into conversations with friends about A-levels (along with a mention of the scholarship I won), but it's not something I'd commit to paper. Then again I'm quite a self-depricating person. I always apologise if I think I'm about to say something a bit boastful - it's amazing how I've moved up the career ladder despite constantly downplaying and doubting myself.
Actually, there is a degree of overlap between the arts and creative arts.
Nelson sourced all of his figures from the government's own research.
You are claiming a degree in Performance Art is the same as a degree in say History or Classics? They are rarely even in the same faculty/college of a university. They are two very different disciplines. It is akin to saying Social Sciences and the Sciences are the same as they both have science in their name.
All areas of research use similar skills, it does not make them the same.
And Nelson always justifies his rubbish using 'official' sources. What he also does is choose the parts that fit his argument and ignores the rest. This is why his argument never holds up to scrutiny.
Here in Ireland a university degree, twenty years ago, would have been considered quite special and would have opened doors. Nowadays, most school leavers go on to some kind of further studies and all kinds of dodgy sounding and suspect degrees and diploma courses have been developed. A post graduate qualification now is really considered the minimum qualification that a serious student will pursue. A primary degree won't really open doors any more in most areas.
Here in Ireland a university degree, twenty years ago, would have been considered quite special and would have opened doors. Nowadays, most school leavers go on to some kind of further studies and all kinds of dodgy sounding and suspect degrees and diploma courses have been developed. A post graduate qualification now is really considered the minimum qualification that a serious student will pursue. A primary degree won't really open doors any more in most areas.
Sadly this is becoming the reality for many areas and this is what is pushing many students from less well off circumstances out. The funding for post graduate study is very difficult to obtain and becoming harder. In some fields it is almost impossible to find any type of financial support.
Too many talented students are being stopped from advancing through cost alone.
Putting a rejection on your CV? How crazy is that? It's like putting how you nearly completed a marathon or made it to the final round of a competition...
I don't know if the process is still the same, but back in the '80s you had to sit exams additional to A-Levels to get into Oxbridge. So it was possible to pass the entrance exams, but be knocked back at interview - as far more people were examined than there were actual places.
As the entrance exams were considered more exacting than A-levels its actually quite reasonable to put them on your CV.
Interestingly, going to an actual university doesn't propel you into a weird parallel universe or suspended animation, where real life stops happening.
I went to the University of X, The University of Y, and the University of Life. The latter lets anyone in.:D
Quite the reverse in fact, uni just keeps you out of the real working world and still at school for a few more years, the fact that you get to learn is it's saving grace when it comes to the harsh reality of actually having to start working for a living.
Do you think you would not have learned the skills you have had you not gone to a real uni and only studied at life, I find it interesting in your previous post you say you didn't use the skills learned until you were older and self employed which makes me wonder if it's just life experience and good old older and wiser that you actually learned from.
Actually, there is a degree of overlap between the arts and creative arts.
Nelson sourced all of his figures from the government's own research.
I don't get what you mean by Arts because where I work Classics and the like are classed as Humanities. Are you trying to say that all Bachelor of Arts degrees overlap with performing Arts? Because that is just not true. We do a BA in Economics that is nothing like Performing Arts. My BA in English and Classics is nothing like a BA in Media Arts or Film Studies or Graphic Communication.
Here in Ireland a university degree, twenty years ago, would have been considered quite special and would have opened doors. Nowadays, most school leavers go on to some kind of further studies and all kinds of dodgy sounding and suspect degrees and diploma courses have been developed. A post graduate qualification now is really considered the minimum qualification that a serious student will pursue. A primary degree won't really open doors any more in most areas.
My father studied medicine at UCD between 1976-1982. He was the first one in his family to get a degree. Not only that but it was a medical degree and became a doctor to which he still is to this day. Given that his grandfather was one of 4 children out of 9 who survived a poverished upbringing, it shows how has family came a long way. His father was easily bright enough to go to university but was too poor.
Nowadays degrees are ten a penny but in a way we should celebrate that so many more people have the opportunity to at least go to university should they wish as oppose to people like my grandfather who were denied an education because of their wealth as it was only for special elitist people.
Although I hear medicine in Ireland is as competitive as hell now, with the HPAT exam etc. Way tougher than my fathers day because so many people are applying.
Interest, same as why I am doing Social Science and Politics. They want to learn about these things... They interest them.
As long as the under grad realises that a degree in a subject will not necessarily equate to a job related to that subject, I can not see the problem.
Why spend three years (or more) studying and learning about something that does not make you tick. If you love subject, why not expand your knowledge about it. Why should it be about putting something into society?
My degree is my hobby now, sod career prospects. I want at least part of my life to not be related to work.
The universities seem to oversell the career prospects for certain study pathways, which is not fair. There is nothing wrong with just learning for the love of it but people should not be given false hopes by Higher education organisations.
This. Whatever happened to simply enjoying life? It is for living after all! We're not designed to be souless robots, whose sole function is to do the job specified by our corporate masters.
Comments
it is how you value it - and then number of people posting here say that they did things to extend their knowledge - education ....
and these tend not to complain about no jobs....
(but some did what they liked which there is a job more or less obvious).
A degree was never a open door to a job - but it made you aware or within reach of more doors perhaps...
In times past you had to be good academically and with seam determination .. so there was some self selection ...
But we do need more people to do all sort of things - and finding something that you love as your work or work that keep you going so that you can do what you love seems to be a good target.
and just drifting off to any uni on a soft subject or with no real aims - is not a good way.
Doing a degree for fun/interest is fine if you can afford to do it. I'm comfortably retired and did think of popping off and doing another degree this time in 20th Century History but realistically can just as easily quench my thirst for the subject reading at home or these days abroad
I'm personally dubious about what a degree is really worth, beyond an in-depth subject knowledge. We've recently taken on several graduates and non-graduates - all young people in their early twenties. The people who have worked but don't have degrees have proven to be far, far better workers than the graduates; some of whom are so clueless that I find it incredible that they've been awarded any qualifications at all. Even the standard of their writing is rubbish. I shouldn't have to send a report back to a graduate three times because it doesn't make sense.
I know degrees are used as criteria to filter out job applicants; but it's not right. If I'm honest it's the last thing I'd look at. I'd choose experience over a degree any time.
To be honest, once you've had a 'real' job, the most important thing on your CV is your latest role.
My brother was rejected from Cambridge, he said he was glad as he didn't like the process either and didn't really want to go there but his school said he should apply as it would look good.
He was referring to 'creative arts', not the Arts which includes Humanities.
And you take an article written by Fraser Nelson seriously!
The man is a buffoon! He claims to be an expert in everything, until proven wrong and then goes on some long and rambling explanation of why he was wrong hoping people will lose the will to live before he finishes talking!
Fantastic choice. I am wanting to have a crack at 20th century Art/history (specifically architecture). I have already had some of my personal work referenced by local coucils for school/college study guides on local buildings of interest.
I could sit for hours researching about social housing and regeneration of post war Britain. I know what a sad boring git that makes me but I just find modernism fascinating.
This is where I think OU grads come into their own.
Most have got years of work experience, canprove they can work whilst manage to do a part time degree (along with family commitments) and still have the same qualification from a brick uni.
You should have look at some of the work being produced by Post-Medieval/Historical archaeology in this area. Some of the results are really quite surprising.
Actually, there is a degree of overlap between the arts and creative arts.
Nelson sourced all of his figures from the government's own research.
Yeah, my school were the ones pushing the application. They called my mum after I came back to snoop on how it went, and when she told them she didn't think I'd accept an offer they were really aggressive about it!
They were furious I applied to Oxford anyway because Cambridge would have been a far 'easier' prospect.
Putting a rejection on your CV? How crazy is that? It's like putting how you nearly completed a marathon or made it to the final round of a competition.
Do you actually mention that you got 100% in all your English exams? Again, it's not something I'm sure I'd do. I have been known to 'casually' drop it into conversations with friends about A-levels (along with a mention of the scholarship I won), but it's not something I'd commit to paper. Then again I'm quite a self-depricating person. I always apologise if I think I'm about to say something a bit boastful - it's amazing how I've moved up the career ladder despite constantly downplaying and doubting myself.
You are claiming a degree in Performance Art is the same as a degree in say History or Classics? They are rarely even in the same faculty/college of a university. They are two very different disciplines. It is akin to saying Social Sciences and the Sciences are the same as they both have science in their name.
All areas of research use similar skills, it does not make them the same.
And Nelson always justifies his rubbish using 'official' sources. What he also does is choose the parts that fit his argument and ignores the rest. This is why his argument never holds up to scrutiny.
Sadly this is becoming the reality for many areas and this is what is pushing many students from less well off circumstances out. The funding for post graduate study is very difficult to obtain and becoming harder. In some fields it is almost impossible to find any type of financial support.
Too many talented students are being stopped from advancing through cost alone.
I don't know if the process is still the same, but back in the '80s you had to sit exams additional to A-Levels to get into Oxbridge. So it was possible to pass the entrance exams, but be knocked back at interview - as far more people were examined than there were actual places.
As the entrance exams were considered more exacting than A-levels its actually quite reasonable to put them on your CV.
Quite the reverse in fact, uni just keeps you out of the real working world and still at school for a few more years, the fact that you get to learn is it's saving grace when it comes to the harsh reality of actually having to start working for a living.
Do you think you would not have learned the skills you have had you not gone to a real uni and only studied at life, I find it interesting in your previous post you say you didn't use the skills learned until you were older and self employed which makes me wonder if it's just life experience and good old older and wiser that you actually learned from.
I don't get what you mean by Arts because where I work Classics and the like are classed as Humanities. Are you trying to say that all Bachelor of Arts degrees overlap with performing Arts? Because that is just not true. We do a BA in Economics that is nothing like Performing Arts. My BA in English and Classics is nothing like a BA in Media Arts or Film Studies or Graphic Communication.
My father studied medicine at UCD between 1976-1982. He was the first one in his family to get a degree. Not only that but it was a medical degree and became a doctor to which he still is to this day. Given that his grandfather was one of 4 children out of 9 who survived a poverished upbringing, it shows how has family came a long way. His father was easily bright enough to go to university but was too poor.
Nowadays degrees are ten a penny but in a way we should celebrate that so many more people have the opportunity to at least go to university should they wish as oppose to people like my grandfather who were denied an education because of their wealth as it was only for special elitist people.
Although I hear medicine in Ireland is as competitive as hell now, with the HPAT exam etc. Way tougher than my fathers day because so many people are applying.
This. Whatever happened to simply enjoying life? It is for living after all! We're not designed to be souless robots, whose sole function is to do the job specified by our corporate masters.
Probably not in this thread, as we are talking about degrees.
Gold for example is only valuable because it is rare. Degrees are less valuable these days, because they are not as rare as they used to be.
The more you have of a commodity (e.g. gold, degrees), the less valuable they become.
Since every Tom, Dick and Harry has a degree nowadays, they are less valuable as a qualification than they used to be.