The thing is....90% of people who don't like Madonna probably don't care about age-appropriateness either, they just don't like her music. Those people have always just bought the records they have based on what music they like rather than being influenced by looks or age or how someone dresses. She could dress in a pullover and be 16 and they still wouldn't buy her music because they judge musicians on the music they produce. If I like Iggy Pop and dislike Madonna then it's their music I'm judging, not their stage behaviour or dress or anything else - and that's purely a personal taste thing which no one else should be able to decree.
It's only really the pop audience who have stopped buying Madonna records who can say why they stopped - whether it was because they thought the newer music was worse or whether they were influenced by being unable to take Madonna seriously as a pop artist. Those huge fans who bought every Madonna record as well as those who never bought any aren't really the ones with questions to answer.
So the question is really (as far as I see)...is the pop audience fickle and unlikely to stay with an artist as they age, and why is that? Has their musical output deteriorated? Is a pop star's career built on their sex appeal and does that fade for many people (often a younger pop audience) as that person ages? Does having a younger average audience mean your career is likely to be shorter (or your peak anyway)?
I think (talking generally rather than specifically) that the pop audience wants different things from their artists than other genres do.
I'm sure Madonna will survive just fine, in any case.
The thing is....90% of people who don't like Madonna probably don't care about age-appropriateness either, they just don't like her music. Those people have always just bought the records they have based on what music they like rather than being influenced by looks or age or how someone dresses. She could dress in a pullover and be 16 and they still wouldn't buy her music because they judge musicians on the music they produce. If I like Iggy Pop and dislike Madonna then it's their music I'm judging, not their stage behaviour or dress or anything else - and that's purely a personal taste thing which no one else should be able to decree.
It's only really the pop audience who have stopped buying Madonna records who can say why they stopped - whether it was because they thought the newer music was worse or whether they were influenced by being unable to take Madonna seriously as a pop artist. Those huge fans who bought every Madonna record as well as those who never bought any aren't really the ones with questions to answer.
So the question is really (as far as I see)...is the pop audience fickle and unlikely to stay with an artist as they age, and why is that? Has their musical output deteriorated? Is a pop star's career built on their sex appeal and does that fade for many people (often a younger pop audience) as that person ages? Does having a younger average audience mean your career is likely to be shorter (or your peak anyway)?
I think (talking generally rather than specifically) that the pop audience wants different things from their artists than other genres do.
I'm sure Madonna will survive just fine, in any case.
You wouldn't think so reading some of the comments online. In any case, my comments are aimed at the "10%" you've mentioned. I think if people dislike Madonna's music fine, but some of the things people say are quite ageist and sexist.
You wouldn't think so reading some of the comments online. In any case, my comments are aimed at the "10%" you've mentioned. I think if people dislike Madonna's music fine, but some of the things people say are quite ageist and sexist.
I wouldn't take that as any indication of music as a whole. People who bother commenting are usually either heavily pro or heavily anti. It isn't usually that good a measure of public opinion as a whole.
The topic question was about ageism in the music industry (and references sexism too). I think ageism in the pop industry is more of a factor because the audience (my contention) value different things.
The thing is....90% of people who don't like Madonna probably don't care about age-appropriateness either, they just don't like her music. Those people have always just bought the records they have based on what music they like rather than being influenced by looks or age or how someone dresses. She could dress in a pullover and be 16 and they still wouldn't buy her music because they judge musicians on the music they produce. If I like Iggy Pop and dislike Madonna then it's their music I'm judging, not their stage behaviour or dress or anything else - and that's purely a personal taste thing which no one else should be able to decree.
It's only really the pop audience who have stopped buying Madonna records who can say why they stopped - whether it was because they thought the newer music was worse or whether they were influenced by being unable to take Madonna seriously as a pop artist. Those huge fans who bought every Madonna record as well as those who never bought any aren't really the ones with questions to answer.
So the question is really (as far as I see)...is the pop audience fickle and unlikely to stay with an artist as they age, and why is that? Has their musical output deteriorated? Is a pop star's career built on their sex appeal and does that fade for many people (often a younger pop audience) as that person ages? Does having a younger average audience mean your career is likely to be shorter (or your peak anyway)?
I think (talking generally rather than specifically) that the pop audience wants different things from their artists than other genres do.
I'm sure Madonna will survive just fine, in any case.
pop audiences are usually younger, and pop acts often don't have a long career in the public eye. if they keep going then it's usually a much lesser level of fame, such as doing the retro 80s tours
people in general also often stop buying and listening to music as much when they get older, compared to in teens or 20s. other things come along instead like jobs and families
your typical chart pop act makes pretty disposable music for the times, which is why fans of that type of music are more likely to be fickle towards it. wherease people who are usually big music fans in older ages are usually into a much bigger variety of music, and chart pop music isn't usually what interests them most
the type of chart pop music referred to is the type that usually has music videos and image plays a big part, such as magazine photo spreads and appearances on prime time tv shows and breakfast television, so look and image is important for marketing. take that or the spice girls wouldn't be half as successful if the members were all fat and ugly and dressed badly, even if they were better singers
The thing is....90% of people who don't like Madonna probably don't care about age-appropriateness either, they just don't like her music. Those people have always just bought the records they have based on what music they like rather than being influenced by looks or age or how someone dresses. She could dress in a pullover and be 16 and they still wouldn't buy her music because they judge musicians on the music they produce. If I like Iggy Pop and dislike Madonna then it's their music I'm judging, not their stage behaviour or dress or anything else - and that's purely a personal taste thing which no one else should be able to decree.
It's only really the pop audience who have stopped buying Madonna records who can say why they stopped - whether it was because they thought the newer music was worse or whether they were influenced by being unable to take Madonna seriously as a pop artist. Those huge fans who bought every Madonna record as well as those who never bought any aren't really the ones with questions to answer.
So the question is really (as far as I see)...is the pop audience fickle and unlikely to stay with an artist as they age, and why is that? Has their musical output deteriorated? Is a pop star's career built on their sex appeal and does that fade for many people (often a younger pop audience) as that person ages? Does having a younger average audience mean your career is likely to be shorter (or your peak anyway)?
I think (talking generally rather than specifically) that the pop audience wants different things from their artists than other genres do.
I'm sure Madonna will survive just fine, in any case.
I'm almost exactly the same age as Madonna. I've listened to her music output on and off from the start of the 80s. Some is pretty good and some isn't. She has attempted to reinvent herself a few times, taken a few artistic risks, sold a huge amount of records and tickets. Madonna is more like a pop phenomenon than a pop act. Madonna defines what a older 80s female pop star is like because she hasn't got many rivals to be compared to. That's what happens when you are the trailblazer.
I've seem some of the recent pics, her décolletage looks in pretty good nick to me. In Madonna's most recent pics she reminds me of Drea De Matteo (Adriana from The Sopranos) who is herself a bit of a hottie and is about 15 years younger than Madonna.
I notice that many of the bad comments appear on the Daily Mail website. I don't know about others but that's not a website I take very seriously.
For the person who asked why Madonna gets it the worst and is constantly picked on when it comes to her age and Kylie doesn't? Simple reason, Kylie is a huge 10 years younger than Madonna.
I'm sure Kylie will get all the shit when she's Madonnas age too.
For the person who asked why Madonna gets it the worst and is constantly picked on when it comes to her age and Kylie doesn't? Simple reason, Kylie is a huge 10 years younger than Madonna.
I'm sure Kylie will get all the shit when she's Madonnas age too.
only if she's still in the public view, but then she's never stripped completely naked and shown everything on camera like madonna, and she certainly hasn't done anything like get her tits out in a long time, so it's unlikely she will be doing that when she's madonna's age. if she was going to do that i'm sure she would have done it when she was younger, rather than wait till she's older. plus of course she's less famous around the world, so will get less attention as a result of that, just like iggy pop gets less attention for being less well known
on the flip side there's a number of females that are famous today as a result of taking their clothes off, to which some would say they don't have much real talent, from paris hilton to kim kardashian and miley cyrus. there aren't many male celebrities with that level of fame who got their as a result of taking their clothes off or making a sex tape. in fact i can't think of any. if you build your success on sex tapes and taking clothes off then when you start to shrivel up or get fat your superficial audience is likely to leave or criticise you
Kiss Me Once was Kylie’s first real underperforming....
A few individuals will take any chance they can to take a shot at Kylie’s career. Kylie has always been an inconsistent album seller worldwide. Other than her debut album, Enjoy Yourself and Fever, the majority of her albums sell between 1-2 million copies worldwide. She’s had a few albums that have sold less than a million copies worldwide – Let’s Get to It, Impossible Princess and Kiss Me Once – but she’s never been a massive album seller outside of Australia and the UK.
The OP is right, a lot of artists would love to sell two million copies of an album nowadays, but most artists aren’t on Madonna’s level of success. Two million copies for a Madonna album is relatively poor even in today’s music business. She’s a major worldwide superstar. Even Eminem can still sell over four million copies of an album worldwide as well as a million copies in the US. Barbra Streisand’s most recent album has already outsold MDNA after only a few months on sale. I'm well aware that MDNA has sold more copies than Kiss Me Once, but like I said, Kylie's never been a massive album seller whereas Madonna has. I actually wouldn't be surprised if Rebel Heart struggles to obtain platinum status in the UK just like MDNA has. It all depends on promotion and whether Living for Love is a hit.
Her fans need to realise her reign on the charts isn't as strong as it used to be. Taylor Swift, Rihanna, Adele and Katy Perry all sell more records than Madonna nowadays. They're the new crop of pop superstars. Madonna is a 56 year old pop singer. In the next few years or so, Rihanna will easily surpass Madonna’s tally of top ten singles on the Hot 100. Rihanna currently has 25, Madonna has 38. Rihanna has already surpassed Madonna’s tally of #1 singles. In fact, Rihanna has spent 51 weeks collectively at #1 in the US putting her in second place behind Mariah Carey for the most weeks at #1 by a female artist. Beyoncé, Janet Jackson and Katy Perry are behind her Rihanna. Rihanna will also surpass Madonna’s total UK single sales at some point in the next ten years. She’s already sold over ten million in as many years. Madonna won’t hold every single record forever.
Comments
I wasn't having a go, it's just how I feel about this whole thing. It was directed at everyone.
It's only really the pop audience who have stopped buying Madonna records who can say why they stopped - whether it was because they thought the newer music was worse or whether they were influenced by being unable to take Madonna seriously as a pop artist. Those huge fans who bought every Madonna record as well as those who never bought any aren't really the ones with questions to answer.
So the question is really (as far as I see)...is the pop audience fickle and unlikely to stay with an artist as they age, and why is that? Has their musical output deteriorated? Is a pop star's career built on their sex appeal and does that fade for many people (often a younger pop audience) as that person ages? Does having a younger average audience mean your career is likely to be shorter (or your peak anyway)?
I think (talking generally rather than specifically) that the pop audience wants different things from their artists than other genres do.
I'm sure Madonna will survive just fine, in any case.
You wouldn't think so reading some of the comments online. In any case, my comments are aimed at the "10%" you've mentioned. I think if people dislike Madonna's music fine, but some of the things people say are quite ageist and sexist.
I wouldn't take that as any indication of music as a whole. People who bother commenting are usually either heavily pro or heavily anti. It isn't usually that good a measure of public opinion as a whole.
The topic question was about ageism in the music industry (and references sexism too). I think ageism in the pop industry is more of a factor because the audience (my contention) value different things.
pop audiences are usually younger, and pop acts often don't have a long career in the public eye. if they keep going then it's usually a much lesser level of fame, such as doing the retro 80s tours
people in general also often stop buying and listening to music as much when they get older, compared to in teens or 20s. other things come along instead like jobs and families
your typical chart pop act makes pretty disposable music for the times, which is why fans of that type of music are more likely to be fickle towards it. wherease people who are usually big music fans in older ages are usually into a much bigger variety of music, and chart pop music isn't usually what interests them most
the type of chart pop music referred to is the type that usually has music videos and image plays a big part, such as magazine photo spreads and appearances on prime time tv shows and breakfast television, so look and image is important for marketing. take that or the spice girls wouldn't be half as successful if the members were all fat and ugly and dressed badly, even if they were better singers
Got it, fair enough.
I'm almost exactly the same age as Madonna. I've listened to her music output on and off from the start of the 80s. Some is pretty good and some isn't. She has attempted to reinvent herself a few times, taken a few artistic risks, sold a huge amount of records and tickets. Madonna is more like a pop phenomenon than a pop act. Madonna defines what a older 80s female pop star is like because she hasn't got many rivals to be compared to. That's what happens when you are the trailblazer.
I've seem some of the recent pics, her décolletage looks in pretty good nick to me. In Madonna's most recent pics she reminds me of Drea De Matteo (Adriana from The Sopranos) who is herself a bit of a hottie and is about 15 years younger than Madonna.
I notice that many of the bad comments appear on the Daily Mail website. I don't know about others but that's not a website I take very seriously.
I'm sure Kylie will get all the shit when she's Madonnas age too.
only if she's still in the public view, but then she's never stripped completely naked and shown everything on camera like madonna, and she certainly hasn't done anything like get her tits out in a long time, so it's unlikely she will be doing that when she's madonna's age. if she was going to do that i'm sure she would have done it when she was younger, rather than wait till she's older. plus of course she's less famous around the world, so will get less attention as a result of that, just like iggy pop gets less attention for being less well known
on the flip side there's a number of females that are famous today as a result of taking their clothes off, to which some would say they don't have much real talent, from paris hilton to kim kardashian and miley cyrus. there aren't many male celebrities with that level of fame who got their as a result of taking their clothes off or making a sex tape. in fact i can't think of any. if you build your success on sex tapes and taking clothes off then when you start to shrivel up or get fat your superficial audience is likely to leave or criticise you
A few individuals will take any chance they can to take a shot at Kylie’s career. Kylie has always been an inconsistent album seller worldwide. Other than her debut album, Enjoy Yourself and Fever, the majority of her albums sell between 1-2 million copies worldwide. She’s had a few albums that have sold less than a million copies worldwide – Let’s Get to It, Impossible Princess and Kiss Me Once – but she’s never been a massive album seller outside of Australia and the UK.
The OP is right, a lot of artists would love to sell two million copies of an album nowadays, but most artists aren’t on Madonna’s level of success. Two million copies for a Madonna album is relatively poor even in today’s music business. She’s a major worldwide superstar. Even Eminem can still sell over four million copies of an album worldwide as well as a million copies in the US. Barbra Streisand’s most recent album has already outsold MDNA after only a few months on sale. I'm well aware that MDNA has sold more copies than Kiss Me Once, but like I said, Kylie's never been a massive album seller whereas Madonna has. I actually wouldn't be surprised if Rebel Heart struggles to obtain platinum status in the UK just like MDNA has. It all depends on promotion and whether Living for Love is a hit.
Her fans need to realise her reign on the charts isn't as strong as it used to be. Taylor Swift, Rihanna, Adele and Katy Perry all sell more records than Madonna nowadays. They're the new crop of pop superstars. Madonna is a 56 year old pop singer. In the next few years or so, Rihanna will easily surpass Madonna’s tally of top ten singles on the Hot 100. Rihanna currently has 25, Madonna has 38. Rihanna has already surpassed Madonna’s tally of #1 singles. In fact, Rihanna has spent 51 weeks collectively at #1 in the US putting her in second place behind Mariah Carey for the most weeks at #1 by a female artist. Beyoncé, Janet Jackson and Katy Perry are behind her Rihanna. Rihanna will also surpass Madonna’s total UK single sales at some point in the next ten years. She’s already sold over ten million in as many years. Madonna won’t hold every single record forever.