good god are we going to wipe everything from history that may have involved someone who's been convicted/accused of something - just how far back are we going to go
The epsiode that was shown last night, might as well be erased then from history, as while Les/Lesley was singing two little boys, it also shown the conclusion to tgat eps entire storyline
A year or two ago Radio 4 Extra had a three hour compendium of comedy clips throughout the years. Somewhere in the middle there was a single reference to Jimmy Savile but of course people complained. Did they really expect someone to listen to the whole of a three hour broadcast of something that had prevously been broadcast just on the off chance of a reference to Savile or something similar.
At this rate let's just closedown Gold Itv 3 and 4 and BBC 4 which show the majority of archive programming
As so many have said regrettably this stuff HAS happened
Nobody should airbrush these people out if anything they will receive even greater notoriety if that happens
How long does it take to utter someone's name ??
A couple of seconds
We are NOT talking of showing FULL SERIES or editions of shows featuring these people
Quite rightly those shouldn't be transmitted but let's get some sense of perspective here for Gods sake
By the way re The Dambusters
I believe the film was shown on two channels over the Christmas season last year
One of the stations ran what I term the "FUNSTER" soundtrack so called after the disasterous editing of the Batman film years ago when they took the swearing out !
The other ran the original complete with the dogs original name
Are we going back to the dark ages again re censorship
Let's hope not
I hate discussions that prove Godwin's Law, but if there was ever a valid comparison to the mistake of cutting bad things out of history - Hitler is a pretty good one.
We wouldn't dream of (oh, wait, these days we probably would) pretending Hitler didn't exist and erasing it from history would we? He existed. Bad, no terrible, things happened... and the best way to prevent a repeat is to remember what happened so it CAN'T happen again.
If we aim to forget about Savile and Harris as quickly as possible, it will just happen all over again.
Perhaps a warning beforehand that the programme contains references to Saville/Hall/Harris and that they were recorded years before information about them came to light is all that is required. Then people can make an informed choice whether to watch or not, instead of being told what they should and shouldn't watch.
Great idea, what would be the harm in that plus we, the adults, have the choice instead of censors deciding for us.
I think it's nice to keep these things as they are as they clearly show attitudes of the time and how they have changed. I also hate censorship of any kind. I'm an adult and can make my own choices as to if I wish to view something or not.
It's like the black dog's name in the Dambusters. That was his name and it was 1943. Why pretend he wasn't called that and try and change history? Also the attitude of the time in Mr Selfridge were women were seen as lesser than men.
I hate discussions that prove Godwin's Law, but if there was ever a valid comparison to the mistake of cutting bad things out of history - Hitler is a pretty good one.
We wouldn't dream of (oh, wait, these days we probably would) pretending Hitler didn't exist and erasing it from history would we? He existed. Bad, no terrible, things happened... and the best way to prevent a repeat is to remember what happened so it CAN'T happen again.
If we aim to forget about Savile and Harris as quickly as possible, it will just happen all over again.
Are you seriously saying that Saville's, Harris's et al crimes, as awful and horryfing as they (alledgedly, in Saville's case) are, are comparable to what Hitler did?! You know why you hate Godwin's Law? It's because people compare all sort of wild and ridiculous things to Hitler etc and the only person who doesn't think it's ridiculous is the person who's done it, so yes, you have 'proved' Godwin's Law.
Were it to happen (and it probably will), cutting mentions of these light entertainers from light entertainment fluff pieces of broadcasting is not remotely in the same galaxy as pretending Hitler didn't exist, [ETA]and to believe that not cutting them will prevent it happening again is incredibly naive. It will happen again. The schedules could be 24 x 7 Jim'll Fix It and Cartoon Time and it'll still happen again. Over and over and over ad infinitum.
ETA - what Harris did isn't even comparable to what Saville allegedly did, let alone Hitler.
There is the added issue of the fact that Rolf was also a singer, and singers get royalties from their songs. However, Benidorm's repeat wouldn't have yielded a royalty payment, as not only was it a karaoke performance, and thus not Rolf singing it, Rolf's version of Two Little Boys was a cover anyway. The song is over 100 years old, and thus it's copyright will be expired by now!
Perhaps a warning beforehand that the programme contains references to Saville/Hall/Harris and that they were recorded years before information about them came to light is all that is required. Then people can make an informed choice whether to watch or not, instead of being told what they should and shouldn't watch.
Such warnings are not necessary. What harm can a reference to a convicted person do to anyone? They can't abuse any more people simply by being mentioned. Bad things happen. At least in this case the truth has been unearthed.
I would feel patronised by being subjected to such pointless and self serving warnings. You might as well have a blanket warning saying "something in this programme may be offensive to some people". You can find offence in anything if you look hard enough.
Let's get rid of any programming representing. Myra Hindley, Ronnie Biggs, the Kray Twins.. Etc. etc.
No. These people existed, and aslong as they do not profit out of it, it's fine. Maybe avoid showing programmes where they appear, yes, but don't get rid of every reference.
Goodnight Sweethart had a funny sequence with Rolf Harris. No doubt that will he cut.
I rewatched the whole series on Gold early last year in the period in between him being named on Twitter but the arrest not being confirmed. As I had seen him named on Twitter I was wondering what they would do if it was confirmed - in the end they showed it a few weeks before The Sun published and confirmed the story.
Such warnings are not necessary. What harm can a reference to a convicted person do to anyone? They can't abuse any more people simply by being mentioned. Bad things happen. At least in this case the truth has been unearthed.
I would feel patronised by being subjected to such pointless and self serving warnings. You might as well have a blanket warning saying "something in this programme may be offensive to some people". You can find offence in anything if you look hard enough.
'somebody' would be better and it gives everybody the choice whether to watch the programme or not.
Why should the majority of people be victims to censorship because of a small minority of people ?
Perhaps a warning beforehand that the programme contains references to Saville/Hall/Harris and that they were recorded years before information about them came to light is all that is required. Then people can make an informed choice whether to watch or not, instead of being told what they should and shouldn't watch.
Perhaps a warning beforehand that the programme contains references to Saville/Hall/Harris and that they were recorded years before information about them came to light is all that is required. Then people can make an informed choice whether to watch or not, instead of being told what they should and shouldn't watch.
Such warnings are not necessary. What harm can a reference to a convicted person do to anyone? They can't abuse any more people simply by being mentioned. Bad things happen. At least in this case the truth has been unearthed.
I would feel patronised by being subjected to such pointless and self serving warnings. You might as well have a blanket warning saying "something in this programme may be offensive to some people". You can find offence in anything if you look hard enough.
Completely agree with the second post. I remember a show which was preceded by an announcement saying that it contained scenes of the twin towers as it was filmed before 9/11. Anyone with an ounce of common sense could figure that out. Stop treating the viewers like idiots. Edit: It was NYPD Blue.
Such warnings are not necessary. What harm can a reference to a convicted person do to anyone? They can't abuse any more people simply by being mentioned. Bad things happen. At least in this case the truth has been unearthed.
I would feel patronised by being subjected to such pointless and self serving warnings. You might as well have a blanket warning saying "something in this programme may be offensive to some people". You can find offence in anything if you look hard enough.
That sums it up perfectly. It would be wrong to create a Jimmy Savile Top Of The Pops compilation, but to edit him out of one particular show is sheer lunacy. It puts it into the context of its time. Equally, it would have been unthinkable to do anything about the Gary Glitter song in Dancing Queen. Glitter's few hits were highly popular at the time and to edit them out of any documentaries would be a silly attempt to re-write history.
Completely agree with the second post. I remember a show which was preceded by an announcement saying that it contained scenes of the twin towers as it was filmed before 9/11. Anyone with an ounce of common sense could figure that out. Stop treating the viewers like idiots. Edit: It was NYPD Blue.
OMG, really? They must be in nearly every film and tv series, set in New York for 30 years, including Friends, Kojak, King Kong and Taxi. Insane!
Several years ago uk gold as they were at the time purchased and transmitted several episodes of the BBC Show The Good Old Days a classic show which like The Wheeltappers And Shunters Social Club (shown at the same area of time on Granada Plus ) provided valuable footage of great tv and variety stars many of whom were coming to the ends of their performing and sometimes physical lives as well
If this idea of erasing these and other public figures goes through a show like The Good Old Days won't be seen on our screen again !
The reason ?? a REGULAR member of the audience often seen in vision sat in the balcony though not performing or even audible being STUART HALL !!
reason to bin a show ??
I DONT THINK SO ....do you ????
That sums it up perfectly. It would be wrong to create a Jimmy Savile Top Of The Pops compilation, but to edit him out of one particular show is sheer lunacy. It puts it into the context of its time. Equally, it would have been unthinkable to do anything about the Gary Glitter song in Dancing Queen. Glitter's few hits were highly popular at the time and to edit them out of any documentaries would be a silly attempt to re-write history.
Whilst we are at it best bin Steptoe and Son I mean Wilfred Brambell was up in court importuning for immoral purposes Sir John Gielgud the same
Jonathan Kings songs are slowly but surely coming back on to Top of the pops shows and documentaries
Some might say I'm being over the top but if the right on brigade have their way
Just WHERE do we draw the line ???
Comments
The epsiode will never be shown again then,
As so many have said regrettably this stuff HAS happened
Nobody should airbrush these people out if anything they will receive even greater notoriety if that happens
How long does it take to utter someone's name ??
A couple of seconds
We are NOT talking of showing FULL SERIES or editions of shows featuring these people
Quite rightly those shouldn't be transmitted but let's get some sense of perspective here for Gods sake
By the way re The Dambusters
I believe the film was shown on two channels over the Christmas season last year
One of the stations ran what I term the "FUNSTER" soundtrack so called after the disasterous editing of the Batman film years ago when they took the swearing out !
The other ran the original complete with the dogs original name
Are we going back to the dark ages again re censorship
Let's hope not
We wouldn't dream of (oh, wait, these days we probably would) pretending Hitler didn't exist and erasing it from history would we? He existed. Bad, no terrible, things happened... and the best way to prevent a repeat is to remember what happened so it CAN'T happen again.
If we aim to forget about Savile and Harris as quickly as possible, it will just happen all over again.
Great idea, what would be the harm in that plus we, the adults, have the choice instead of censors deciding for us.
COULDNT AGREE MORE !
Were it to happen (and it probably will), cutting mentions of these light entertainers from light entertainment fluff pieces of broadcasting is not remotely in the same galaxy as pretending Hitler didn't exist, [ETA]and to believe that not cutting them will prevent it happening again is incredibly naive. It will happen again. The schedules could be 24 x 7 Jim'll Fix It and Cartoon Time and it'll still happen again. Over and over and over ad infinitum.
ETA - what Harris did isn't even comparable to what Saville allegedly did, let alone Hitler.
I would feel patronised by being subjected to such pointless and self serving warnings. You might as well have a blanket warning saying "something in this programme may be offensive to some people". You can find offence in anything if you look hard enough.
No. These people existed, and aslong as they do not profit out of it, it's fine. Maybe avoid showing programmes where they appear, yes, but don't get rid of every reference.
I rewatched the whole series on Gold early last year in the period in between him being named on Twitter but the arrest not being confirmed. As I had seen him named on Twitter I was wondering what they would do if it was confirmed - in the end they showed it a few weeks before The Sun published and confirmed the story.
'somebody' would be better and it gives everybody the choice whether to watch the programme or not.
Why should the majority of people be victims to censorship because of a small minority of people ?
Either that or people can get a grip.
Completely agree with the second post. I remember a show which was preceded by an announcement saying that it contained scenes of the twin towers as it was filmed before 9/11. Anyone with an ounce of common sense could figure that out. Stop treating the viewers like idiots. Edit: It was NYPD Blue.
This would be my preferred choice.
OMG, really? They must be in nearly every film and tv series, set in New York for 30 years, including Friends, Kojak, King Kong and Taxi. Insane!
I thought the repeat was well timed, especially when Jacqueline asked if Rolf Harris had an affair with his wife. He possibly did.
I recorded it last night and only watched the first half, have to catch up with the rest later as it was one of the funniest series.
Or indeed Errol Flynn.
If this idea of erasing these and other public figures goes through a show like The Good Old Days won't be seen on our screen again !
The reason ?? a REGULAR member of the audience often seen in vision sat in the balcony though not performing or even audible being STUART HALL !!
reason to bin a show ??
I DONT THINK SO ....do you ????
Whilst we are at it best bin Steptoe and Son I mean Wilfred Brambell was up in court importuning for immoral purposes Sir John Gielgud the same
Jonathan Kings songs are slowly but surely coming back on to Top of the pops shows and documentaries
Some might say I'm being over the top but if the right on brigade have their way
Just WHERE do we draw the line ???