Freeview coverage.
Glawster2002
Posts: 15,211 Forum Member
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Does anyone have and information on how the 'postcode lottery' for Freeview reception is worked out?
I live in deepest Gloucestershire, high up on the cotswold escarpment. I've had digital radio, from the Mendip Tx., for a couple of years now and I've been interested in Freeview since it's launch, but I've never purchased a STB because of the dire warnings about not being able to return a box if you can't receive the service, etc.
Entering my postcode online says I'm unable to receive Freeview, despite the fact that other local postcode can receive Freeview, and checking with local retailers confirmed I wouldn't receive the service; the retailer who sold me my aerial rated my chances of receiving anything at all as no better than 40 - 50%, although he did confirm the aerial I had would pickup anything that was available! Except....
I borrowed a friend's STB, turned my aerial 90 deg to horizontal, pointed my aerial to the Mendip Tx and.....
Perfect reception on all available Mendip channels!
By retuning my tv to the Mendip analogue frequencies we could receive all five analogue channels, Channel 5 is unobtainable from our two local relays, and with better reception, too!
I've now purchased my own STB, but I'm annoyed that if I hadn't had the use of a borrowed box, I would have had to 'take the chance' to see if I could receive Freeview, when, in reality, I've been able to receive the service all along but been hampered by incorrect data from the 'experts'!
Which leaves me wondering how many thousands of other potential users are faced with the same problem... :mad:
I live in deepest Gloucestershire, high up on the cotswold escarpment. I've had digital radio, from the Mendip Tx., for a couple of years now and I've been interested in Freeview since it's launch, but I've never purchased a STB because of the dire warnings about not being able to return a box if you can't receive the service, etc.
Entering my postcode online says I'm unable to receive Freeview, despite the fact that other local postcode can receive Freeview, and checking with local retailers confirmed I wouldn't receive the service; the retailer who sold me my aerial rated my chances of receiving anything at all as no better than 40 - 50%, although he did confirm the aerial I had would pickup anything that was available! Except....
I borrowed a friend's STB, turned my aerial 90 deg to horizontal, pointed my aerial to the Mendip Tx and.....
Perfect reception on all available Mendip channels!
By retuning my tv to the Mendip analogue frequencies we could receive all five analogue channels, Channel 5 is unobtainable from our two local relays, and with better reception, too!
I've now purchased my own STB, but I'm annoyed that if I hadn't had the use of a borrowed box, I would have had to 'take the chance' to see if I could receive Freeview, when, in reality, I've been able to receive the service all along but been hampered by incorrect data from the 'experts'!
Which leaves me wondering how many thousands of other potential users are faced with the same problem... :mad:
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Comments
Anyone else had the same problem?
Freeview says my postcode and others close by can't get anything at all. DTG says our post code cant get anything, but along the road, they get more than half the freeview channels. The ukfreetv site (recently updated) says our postcode and the other ones nearby should all be able to get Freeview, although we may require an aerial upgrade to E or W type. Previously, this web site (pre update) said we could not get anything.
BTW, The ukfreetv site does warn us that some channels are on reduced power on Mendip (5kw) whereas the others are 10kw. But, I thnk in reality, even that is out of date! Mendip put everything on 10kw some months back, so we should have no probs then!
As for the installers, I just dont know what to do to be safe. One installer says, high gain 52 element aerials dont make any difference, but all those new ones near me are bigger than normal - so I assume we would have same - but are those people just having those for the sake of it? It also appears that some people have got really big aerials, whereas others are only one or 2 sizes above "normal". So, it looks like it can be done, but maybe not such an easy job - dont want to be left with unstable freeview like pictures freezing, so getting a good installation is important.
Dave
Where I used to live (on the side of the hill in Selsley), I could get central, HTV and HTV wales, and I would have been blocked from receiving anything from the south. This was in the days before C5 and DTT though.
Dave
http://www.wolfbane.com/cgi-bin/tva.exe?DX=L&OS=SO848055
There are an amazing five analogue relays within 4 miles of Stroud (one for each valley presumably). They probably just gave up when doing the Stroud postcodes as it was too complicated
The ukfree.tv sums up what I mean perfectly! Entering my postcode I get the following information:
"It is likely that the TV aerial on your house points 58km south-southwest toward the transmitter at Mendip, which you can't get Freeview from."
Dave
You're probably closer to the truth than you realise!
The only thing I can think of is that the 'postcode lottery' is based on the 'Royston Vasey' approach.... local relays for local people!
But depending on where you live in the valleys, the Freeview webpage says the service is available.... from Mendip!
Lee.
I'd hate to think how big a pole you'd need in some places.:rolleyes:
Seeing as there is a local TV transmitter less than a 10 minute walk from my house, and I actually an receiving Freeview, I think this website is a load of shite. Lots of people CAN receive Freeview, but noone seems to be able ot tell them so. Is this a Government plot to stop Freeview and keep analogue?
Padzter
That was my point.
I'm sure there are many more people who would use Freeview - if they were given the correct reception advice! To base availability on predicted coverage is rediculous given that we're supposed to be in the 21st Century!
There is no Government consipracy and the answer to all the above is actually quite simple.
ONdigital used to have 'optomistic' coverage results and as a result ended up with a very bad reputation for poor reception since in reality many people bought the equipment thinking they could receive the service when in practice they couldn't.
Quite understandably once ONdigital eventually collapsed the DTG/ITC revised the reception parameters that were otherwise used by ONdigital and made them more stringent so that people are much less likely to be dissapointed.
Obviously they didn't want 'Freeview' to end up as an ONdigital Mark II with a reputation for poor coverage, and as such it is actually quite a sensible move - it does mean however that some people live in areas where they may be able to get reception even though the coverage prediction may say they can't.
That is far better than creating a whole new 'ONdigital' style situation and giving 'Freeview' a bad reputation for poor coverage....
I quite agree as a 'Day 1' scenario, but 12 months down the line I don't think it's unreasonable to expect more realistic coverage data.
When we checked on the DTG website a month ago, the database had last been updated in May! I've just checked this morning and at least the database has been updated and...
I can now get Freeview from Mendip!:D
But, apparantly, only Mux B!
So obviously the other channels I'm seeing are an optical illusion, is David Blaine still in the country?
The Freeview website still says I can't receive anything, though...
But very little has actually significantly changed, hence why the coverage database hasn't had much of an improvement.
The core transmitter network has remained the same as it was during the final year of ONdigital and some marginal improvements have been made elsewhere to other transmitters which serve far smaller numbers of homes.
The 3dB power increase which took place at some sites (and had already taken place at others) wasn't meant to increase coverage, only improve reception quality for existing viewers. It does have the side effect of improving reception to viewers outside the normal service area, but this is not intentional and quality reception cannot be guaranteed.
Whilst you may be lucky enough to receive all the channels without any problems, perhaps some of neighbours can't or would need to replace or upgrade their aerial to do so - hence wouldn't want a database that suggest they will get full service when they may not be able to.
Remember the database (called the "Common Planning Module") is a guide, it is based on splitting the UK up into 50m square chunks (this has been improved from the 250m squares used previously by ONdigital)
Any square where their computer plots a suitable field strength for reliable reception for 90%> of that 50m square is considered covered, possibly needing an aerial upgrade if there are either alternative analogue or digital transmitters that could be used or services transmitted "out of group" - any 50m square with poorer coverage is considered uncovered (although obviously some people living within that 50m square may, with the right aerial get some service).
To try and make the database significantly more accurate would be very difficult, especially taking into account the wide range of different aerials in use in peoples homes right the way from bent coathangers to large 80 element wideband arrays pointing to all sorts of different transmitters that may or may not carry digital services....
I agree that nothing has changed as regards coverage, but there's no reason why their model can't be improved to ensure the predicted coverage is as accurate as possible. The DTG & Freeview web sites can't even agree on what's available for the same postcode half the time!
Using both the DTG & Freeview coverage predictions, both make the statement that they only show if Freeview is available and that a new aerial and cable may be required to receive the service.
In our case we've got a 'bog standard' 10 element wideband aerial, nothing special, with no fancy installation or external amplification and we get a quality level of '8' on our DTB for all channels - an excellent reception level! Given the layour of our small estate there's no reason why everyone can't receive Freeview by simply buying a box, turning the aerial horizontal and moving it 90 degrees, but the information people rely on is certainly flawed and people aren't prepared to spend £80 - £100 on the 'off-chance' it may work.
There must be a reason why Freeview reception is considered more difficult, perhaps starting with the assumption that most people don't have a wideband aerial and that the aerial perhaps needs to be totally repositioned towards a different transmitter just as you had to?
I would have thought that the DTG suggestion that viewers in your area may need a new aerial and/or reposition their existing aerial to get any reception is actually quite sensible - especially considering that you had to do that.
In practice (ie over the last 5 years) it was found that many people had poor quality aerials hence why the database is more likely to suggest an upgrade may be necessary... you appear to have been lucky enough to have a wideband aerial in a good condition - many others don't.
I think the DTG website assumes you are using a narrowband aerial suitable for your local transmitter. So, if (for argument's sake) you would normally get your (analogue) terrestrial signal from Corsham, the site assumes you have a Group B aerial - which would mean that you might be able to receive Mux 2 but none of the others. Also, there may be analogue relays near you or close to the line-of-sight of your aerial that are using frequencies identical or very close to the DTT multiplexes (and therefore could potentially cause too much interference, though this will depend on how good your aerial is) and therefore aren't listed as available on the DTG site.
Because we live in an area considered 'difficult' for analogue reception, wideband aerials are installed as standard, we've got three relays within 5 miles and, depending on where you live in the area, you take you pick to find the best reception!
However, none of the relays are anywhere near the direction of Mendip. In fact, we get better analogue reception, including Channel 5, than we have from any of our local repeaters!
The relays near to us are in a clockwise arc from West-northwest to East, Mendip is South-southwest, so there is no interference from that point of view and the relays are vertical with Mendip being horizontal polarization.
The Freeview & DTG websites do say an upgrade to a wideband aerial may be required, so I'd have thought that would be taken into account when they provide their predicted coverage.
It's also a bit annoying that neither website provides a feedback service to enable people to say.. 'Hey, I live in postcode 'such-and-such' and I can get these channels perfectly, can you veryfy that and update your coverage predictions' To me, user experciencies are much more reliable than computer predictions!
I think its time to look at this idea of not being able to return your box. Why not? Boxes come under the same law as everything else you buy. Unlike pants and contraceptives, you don't make them useless to the retailer by using them. And in any case, I bought one STB, simply didn't like the look of the thing and returned it on the basis that the product didn't suit me. They took it back no question and I'm sure thats because I had the law on my side.
If anyone is not investing in a STB because they've been told they can't return it if reception is a problem, go and get one anyway. I'm sure the non-return rule was dreamt up by retailers not wishing to overwork their sales assistants with returns from people who simply did not check the liklihood of reception. A very different thing to not allowing someone who wanted to try it out returning their box.
Just don't throw up on it before you take it back!;)
Perhaps they are in your particular area, however until recently (ie before Channel 5 and Digital TV arrived in the last 10 years or so) there was no real need to do so and often a wideband aerial was a poorer choice since generally aerials designed for a particular group were more efficient and would provide better analogue reception.
The DTG/ITC simply take into account the fact that, as a whole most people with an older TV aerial will not have a wideband aerial, nor will it necessarily point towards the right digital transmitter. Perhaps people in your road do, but that isn't representative of the rest of the UK.
To try and actually take into account the different aerials, their general state and where they might point across all 25 million UK households would be a bit a logistic headache to say the least
Which kind of proves the point that people living in your area could have any sort of aerial: indoors, loft or roof mounted that could point to one or more of several different transmitters.
No wonder the DTG say that an aerial upgrade may be necessary! Chances are many people in your locality will have the wrong grouped aerial which will be pointing in the wrong direction...
Perhaps because user experiences are just as hopeless as a computer prediction?
What works for one person in their house using a particular set-top box with a particular aerial/downlead/amplifier is not especially relevant for someone a few doors down with a different set-top box and an aerial pointing at a different transmitter. It may be a handy guide, but is no better a prediction of guaranteed reception that the results of a computer program.
...maybe if the DTG asked them what Ariel they used instead they'd have more of an idea