The reviews for 4.01 were positive-to-glowing, for the most part. Especially from the Telegraph. I think they called it a "triumph."
But it went downhill from there. And the CS was mediocre. Not total crap, maybe, but mediocre. Not that it didn't have it bright spots, but it was still disappointing.
So it's not like UK reviewers won't give the show a chance. If anything, I think they have been too kind to it sometimes. They don't hold it to unfairly high standards because it is a success. Just the opposite, if you ask me.
For me one of the main problems I have with DA these days is the clear set of priorities given to different elements within the production as a whole. For example, the seemingly limitless budgets for sets, costumes, props etc. Specifically with regard to the CS, strip away the lavish sets and costumes and you have very little left - it's all very superficial. No storylines, plots or character development of any real worth. It is, literally, as shallow as a puddle.
I am currently smarting at the fact that two of my favourite shows from 2013 - 'The Hour' and 'Ripper Street' - have been shelved. In both shows the acting has been of the highest order and the contribution of each actor to the 'whole' created superb ensemble productions. Each individual was valued and nurtured so we as the audience enjoyed discovering different facets of each character's personality and make-up. The stories were captivating, and occasionally heartbreaking, so the audience actually cared about the characters. Although in each drama, the sets and costumes were impressive and felt authentic, I never felt that they dominated the piece, just added value to already outstanding productions.
By comparison, despite its glorious appearance, DA is now just a sad caricature and, as a viewer, I have (almost) stopped having an emotional investment in any of the characters largely due to the fact that they have become so utterly one-dimensional and frankly unbelievable.
He went on to say that he would keep the secret to himself... So only the two of them would know. I took that to mean he realised the baby was hers. I was a little surprised as I Didn't realise the farmer was married.
It was all very odd - why did Edith pick him as I was surprised she would know who he was. I thought only Mary, Tom and Robert would have had dealings with tenants - not Edith.
This man had been helped out by Robert i.e. given a loan to repay his fathers debts by him so he could take on the tenancy on the estate. So why would he then be involved in trying to deceive Robert by helping Edith out.
Would he also believe the same man who helped him could be so cruel as to leave an orphan destitute and refuse to allow Edith to care for it just cos Cora and him didn't like the mother?
It was probably all dreamt up in a split second - but its clearly ridiculous. Perhaps he will use the money he gets off Edith - to repay his debt to Robert!:D Or maybe even blackmail Edith.
It was all very odd - why did Edith pick him as I was surprised she would know who he was. I thought only Mary, Tom and Robert would have had dealings with tenants - not Edith.
This man had been helped out by Robert i.e. given a loan to repay his fathers debts by him so he could take on the tenancy on the estate. So why would he then be involved in trying to deceive Robert by helping Edith out.
Would he also believe the same man who helped him could be so cruel as to leave an orphan destitute and refuse to allow Edith to care for it just cos Cora and him didn't like the mother?
It was probably all dreamt up in a split second - but its clearly ridiculous. Perhaps he will use the money he gets off Edith - to repay his debt to Robert!:D Or maybe even blackmail Edith.
The whole bit with Edith was ridiculous to me. It was meant to make her appear spirited etc. But to me she came off as unrealistic and childish. I guess they needed to do something about that baby.
It was all very odd - why did Edith pick him as I was surprised she would know who he was. I thought only Mary, Tom and Robert would have had dealings with tenants - not Edith.
This man had been helped out by Robert i.e. given a loan to repay his fathers debts by him so he could take on the tenancy on the estate. So why would he then be involved in trying to deceive Robert by helping Edith out.
Would he also believe the same man who helped him could be so cruel as to leave an orphan destitute and refuse to allow Edith to care for it just cos Cora and him didn't like the mother?
It was probably all dreamt up in a split second - but its clearly ridiculous. Perhaps he will use the money he gets off Edith - to repay his debt to Robert!:D Or maybe even blackmail Edith.
Edith knows the farmer. They had a scene together late in S4.
The silliest plot was surely the "Getting the Prince of wales letter back", ridiculous, & why wait to get the letter back when he was putting his coat on, just look thru the pockets beforehand, much easier.
Oh well, time will tell what JF has up his sleeve. Maybe Sarah is just some kind of catalyst or maybe she will steal Tom's heart. TBH I find him one of the less interesting characters, although he's quite kind hearted, so I'm not that bothered. I would hate, though, if they married him off to Edith, who deserves better.
I´m also not keen on the idea of Tom and Edith ... and I think he would find it very odd, although I know it happened, to be married to the love of his life´s sister. I don´t think Edith would ever live up to Sybil in his eyes which would be a shame for her as she´d be second best again.
I quite like the idea of Tom and Madeline. She seems perfect for him, kind, sweet and modern but with a rebellious streak. I think the story with Harold showed she is now not looking just to marry for money or into society and is looking for love and happiness as much as anything else. ( she as much as said she wouldn´t be going along with any of her father´s schemes anymore ) I think she could be a great wife for Tom and a lovely mother to Sybbie.
It was all very odd - why did Edith pick him as I was surprised she would know who he was. I thought only Mary, Tom and Robert would have had dealings with tenants - not Edith.
This man had been helped out by Robert i.e. given a loan to repay his fathers debts by him so he could take on the tenancy on the estate. So why would he then be involved in trying to deceive Robert by helping Edith out.
Would he also believe the same man who helped him could be so cruel as to leave an orphan destitute and refuse to allow Edith to care for it just cos Cora and him didn't like the mother?
It was probably all dreamt up in a split second - but its clearly ridiculous. Perhaps he will use the money he gets off Edith - to repay his debt to Robert!:D Or maybe even blackmail Edith.
I suppose the scene Edith had with him last year was deliberate and she mentioned him to Roselyn too as someone who could help. It does seem a bit random I suppose but no more so than if the farmer hadn´t have existed and some other farm worker or villager had appeared out of nowhere to take the baby in.
I definitely think the farmer guessed she is Edith´s baby which is why he didn´t need to believe Robert and Cora wouldn´t take the baby in, and Robert is still very old fashioned in some ways so it´s not that unbelievable although I agree he might feel a bit more awarkward and need a bit more persuading to decieve Robert. I guess he really needs the money!
The main gripe I had with the logistics of the story were would it really be that easy to pop over to Switzerland and bring a baby back to the UK. Were there passports in those days etc? I guess Edith would have a copy of the baby´s birth certificate and she said there was no legal agreement but the adoptive family may make things difficult and the baby must have been registered in some form in Switzerland? I also would have liked to see a scene with maybe Edith and Sybbie, showing her new maternal feelings!
I´m also not keen on the idea of Tom and Edith ... and I think he would find it very odd, although I know it happened, to be married to the love of his life´s sister. I don´t think Edith would ever live up to Sybil in his eyes which would be a shame for her as she´d be second best again.
I quite like the idea of Tom and Madeline. She seems perfect for him, kind, sweet and modern but with a rebellious streak. I think the story with Harold showed she is now not looking just to marry for money or into society and is looking for love and happiness as much as anything else. ( she as much as said she wouldn´t be going along with any of her father´s schemes anymore ) I think she could be a great wife for Tom and a lovely mother to Sybbie.
I suppose the scene Edith had with him last year was deliberate and she mentioned him to Roselyn too as someone who could help. It does seem a bit random I suppose but no more so than if the farmer hadn´t have existed and some other farm worker or villager had appeared out of nowhere to take the baby in.
I definitely think the farmer guessed she is Edith´s baby which is why he didn´t need to believe Robert and Cora wouldn´t take the baby in, and Robert is still very old fashioned in some ways so it´s not that unbelievable although I agree he might feel a bit more awarkward and need a bit more persuading to decieve Robert. I guess he really needs the money!
The main gripe I had with the logistics of the story were would it really be that easy to pop over to Switzerland and bring a baby back to the UK. Were there passports in those days etc? I guess Edith would have a copy of the baby´s birth certificate and she said there was no legal agreement but the adoptive family may make things difficult and the baby must have been registered in some form in Switzerland? I also would have liked to see a scene with maybe Edith and Sybbie, showing her new maternal feelings!
No, it wasn't difficult to move children around back then. It wasn't like it is now. As for the Swiss family if they had no legal agreement then Edith was within her rights to reclaim her daughter. Just like she will be able to from the farmer when the times comes, if he doesn't die first. She is still the legal mother.
We're bound to see Edith being maternal in S5. There's no way she's going to stay away from the baby. She'll find ways to secretly see her daughter. The farmer will have to help her as he's being paid.
Next series is going to be all about several men fighting over a cold stuffy woman. Sounds rather tedious.
The CS was saved by the scenes beteween Violet and Isobel and the prospect of Edith having her baby living on her doorstep in a mucky farm.
I love the show and I'm afraid it has become a bit of a parody of itself.
The "Let battle commence" line was cringeworthy, and should have shown Gillingham that she didnt have strong feelings for either man. If I was Gillingham it would have turned me right off Mary.
The "Let battle commence" line was cringeworthy, and should have shown Gillingham that she didnt have strong feelings for either man. If I was Gillingham it would have turned me right off Mary.
Mary was especially unlikable in the CS. I can't stand her at the best of times but she was 95% vile in it. She's just a stuck up cow. She was worse than annoying Sarah.
Rose may be shallow and immature but she's nice enough with it. And Edith was a complete sweetheart.
No, it wasn't difficult to move children around back then. It wasn't like it is now. As for the Swiss family if they had no legal agreement then Edith was within her rights to reclaim her daughter. Just like she will be able to from the farmer when the times comes, if he doesn't die first. She is still the legal mother.
We're bound to see Edith being maternal in S5. There's no way she's going to stay away from the baby. She'll find ways to secretly see her daughter. The farmer will have to help her as he's being paid.
I agree, there would have been little difficulty in taking a child with you travelling across countries. Passports then were only held by the "well to do" I also agree that Edith will be wanting to see her daughter as often as she can, even if its watching from a distance. It will be interesting to see how "her secret" comes to light.
I agree, there would have been little difficulty in taking a child with you travelling across countries. Passports then were only held by the "well to do" I also agree that Edith will be wanting to see her daughter as often as she can, even if its watching from a distance. It will be interesting to see how "her secret" comes to light.
I reckon some characters will notice her overinterest in the baby. Mrs Hughes already seemed like she suspected the truth of why Edith had been away. Tom will be the first of the family to work it out I reckon. Him or Rose.
Isobel is another who'd pick up things. As for Robert, Cora and Mary, I think they'll find out in some melodramatic way. Maybe there's an illness or accident with the baby, Edith hears and in her panic she reveals it's her daughter. I can see something like that happening. Typical JF
" Let battle commence "
Next series is going to be all about several men fighting over a cold stuffy woman. Sounds rather tedious.
The CS was saved by the scenes beteween Violet and Isobel and the prospect of Edith having her baby living on her doorstep in a mucky farm.
I love the show and I'm afraid it has become a bit of a parody of itself.
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[PHP]Originally Posted by bookaddict
The "Let battle commence" line was cringeworthy, and should have shown Gillingham that she didnt have strong feelings for either man. If I was Gillingham it would have turned me right off Mary.
[/PHP]
Mary was especially unlikable in the CS. I can't stand her at the best of times but she was 95% vile in it. She's just a stuck up cow. She was worse than annoying Sarah.
Rose may be shallow and immature but she's nice enough with it. And Edith was a complete sweetheart.
I love the character of Mary, all of it. To my mind the "let battle commence" was just a figure of speech and I don't actually see a battle between the two men, as I suspect Mary already has leanings in one particular direction. In fact as the next series is likely to open in late winter / early spring 1924 it may already have been decided and we pick up from there.
The other thing from the scene with Blake and Mary outside of Grantham House that was missing is Julien Ovenden is also a singer and seeing him walk away I felt he should have burst into "I could have danced all Night", which is what they had been doing.LOL:D
I reckon some characters will notice her overinterest in the baby. Mrs Hughes already seemed like she suspected the truth of why Edith had been away. Tom will be the first of the family to work it out I reckon. Him or Rose.
Isobel is another who'd pick up things. As for Robert, Cora and Mary, I think they'll find out in some melodramatic way. Maybe there's an illness or accident with the baby, Edith hears and in her panic she reveals it's her daughter. I can see something like that happening. Typical JF
I hope Cora is suitably annoyed with Roselyn when she finds out rather than just being her usual passive self. If Roselyn hadn´t been so forceful I think Edith would have eventually told her mother and Cora may have found a different solution for her and the baby even if it mean´t defying Robert. There were a few scenes last series when I felt she was near confiding in her but didn´t want to disappoint her mother.
What would the damage be to Edith´s status if she adopted
How would Edith´s status be affected if she were to say adopt an orphan from a neighbour .... would that be as terrible as being an unmarried mother of her own child which of course suggests she´s had sex out of marriage. Adopting a child doesn´t carry that stigma ...?
How would Edith´s status be affected if she were to say adopt an orphan from a neighbour .... would that be as terrible as being an unmarried mother of her own child which of course suggests she´s had sex out of marriage. Adopting a child doesn´t carry that stigma although I guess may still affect her prospects?
The silliest plot was surely the "Getting the Prince of wales letter back", ridiculous, & why wait to get the letter back when he was putting his coat on, just look thru the pockets beforehand, much easier.
I think that the letter was in his jacket pocket - not in his coat pocket - and Bates picked his pocket whilst helping him on with his coat.
I reckon some characters will notice her overinterest in the baby. Mrs Hughes already seemed like she suspected the truth of why Edith had been away. Tom will be the first of the family to work it out I reckon. Him or Rose.
Isobel is another who'd pick up things. As for Robert, Cora and Mary, I think they'll find out in some melodramatic way. Maybe there's an illness or accident with the baby, Edith hears and in her panic she reveals it's her daughter. I can see something like that happening. Typical JF
Mrs. Hughes would notice, I agree, when Edith keeps coming down to the kitchen and asking if Mrs. Patmore can make a basket to take to that nice Pig Family. But Hughes would keep it to herself. She's discreet.
I think Tom will figure it out. Rose is fairly intuitive but she's preoccupied with her social life and doesn't have the life experience to put two and two together in this case, IMO.
Tom is in the right position to discover it: he's the Agent so he'll be visiting the Drewes a lot to see the pigs, he is more tuned in to Edith than the family and they seemed to have established an alliance of sorts, and he is just more emotionally intelligent in general IMO. Tom is in touch with his feelings and he isn't scared of them, even when they're painful. He doesn't sweep them under the rug the way the English do (as we were reminded in that conversation with Mary, Edith and Tony).
Also he lived with a pregnant woman and was raised in closer quarters where kids were not as shielded from things like pregnancy, birth and death. He ate breakfast with Edith most days. Even if he didn't suspect she was pregnant back in her first months, he might realize in retrospect that she was showing signs. And put it all together.
I mean, honestly, Mary and the parents will never figure it out. They're all too oblivious, too self-absorbed, or too dumb. She could have been walking around six months pregnant in front of them and they would not have noticed.
And I agree with all those who said Mary is vile, cold, and stuffy. What these men see in her is beyond me. If I were Tony I would go for Rose. She's younger, nicer, more fun and she's beautiful. I think she'd be a better wife and mother in the long run.
Sarah is worse than annoying. She's unbearable. Someone I know said in that scene at the house it almost felt like she was an intruder. She's like Edna, except she didn't break into his room and violate him. But she still has terrible boundary issues. IDK why JF keeps subjecting Tom to these pushy ,manipulative women.
And Edith was lovely in the CS. I like her more and more and I like her new friendship with Tom. More than I like his bond with Mary really. They have more in common.
BTW, Someone said it would be nice to see Tom with Madeline.
I completely agree, but I don't see it happen. She was so lovely and sweet! But obviously only reserved for old Harold. And although it grossed me out how she got forced by her father to flirt with Harold, she still made me ship them a little, because she was so lovely.
I loved the leaden bit of exposition at the start of the episode:
Tom - "Why wasn't Grantham House sold to pay the family's debts back in series 3?"
Lady Edith - "Oh, I expect it would have been if JF had remembered the family owned a large empty house in London that has never been needed until now."
I enjoyed. Admittedly not much happened in terms of character development but it was fun and light hearted entertainment and perfect for the Christmas Dat imo . Compared to the soaps which are often full people dying, houses burning down or kidnapping it was a nice 90 minutes.
JF left a few threads for series, both Mrs Patmore and Mary know that Bates was in London, so they will be keeping a secret.
Edith and her baby coming to the village. At some point in time her interest the child will raise suspicion.
I thought it was actually quite to see Mary have a sense of humor and Michelle Dockery is great when she given the chance to it.
The relationship between Carson and Patmore is touching and it is the "will they-won't they" of downstairs, although I suspect Carson might put duty first but the final few minutes did bring a smile.
So maybe not the perfect Downton episode but the overall it was an enjoyable Christmas special .
I enjoyed. Admittedly not much happened in terms of character development but it was fun and light hearted entertainment and perfect for the Christmas Dat imo . Compared to the soaps which are often full people dying, houses burning down or kidnapping it was a nice 90 minutes.
JF left a few threads for series, both Mrs Patmore and Mary know that Bates was in London, so they will be keeping a secret.
Edith and her baby coming to the village. At some point in time her interest the child will raise suspicion.
I thought it was actually quite to see Mary have a sense of humor and Michelle Dockery is great when she given the chance to it.
The relationship between Carson and Patmore is touching and it is the "will they-won't they" of downstairs, although I suspect Carson might put duty first but the final few minutes did bring a smile.
So maybe not the perfect Downton episode but the overall it was an enjoyable Christmas special .
I think you mean Mrs Hughes the housekeeper not Mrs Patmore the cook.
How would Edith´s status be affected if she were to say adopt an orphan from a neighbour .... would that be as terrible as being an unmarried mother of her own child which of course suggests she´s had sex out of marriage. Adopting a child doesn´t carry that stigma ...?
If Edith has a husband when if and when she does it then there would be no stigma. There may be raised eyebrows she'd adopt a farmers daughter but it wouldn't effect her status in society. But if people find out it's her daughter then she's ruined. She wouldn't be accepted into the toffs houses or at their parties. She's be considered a shameless ****.
It could go either way for her. It depends how much melodrama JF wants in S5. I'm convinced one or the other will happen though. It's quite obvious she'll get to raise her daughter eventually.
I loved the leaden bit of exposition at the start of the episode:
Tom - "Why wasn't Grantham House sold to pay the family's debts back in series 3?"
Lady Edith - "Oh, I expect it would have been if JF had remembered the family owned a large empty house in London that has never been needed until now."
Subtle.
It was a bit shoehorned in lol. JF had to explain why they had a big house when they couldn't afford it in the past.
But it gave Tom and Edith another bonding scene. One way or another those two will become close in S5. Whether romantically or as surrogate siblings. They keep having these kind of scenes where they can talk and are on the same level with each other. It also allowed a Matthew mention.
As for Mary and her "let battle commence" comment, I don't think it was amusing. It was just arrogant.
Edith would have had to show up at the ball naked to catch my interest. I find her such a bore and a downer. She seems to make her own tough breaks, to me.
Not a fan girl of Mary, butI like her sense of humor, overall.
Comments
For me one of the main problems I have with DA these days is the clear set of priorities given to different elements within the production as a whole. For example, the seemingly limitless budgets for sets, costumes, props etc. Specifically with regard to the CS, strip away the lavish sets and costumes and you have very little left - it's all very superficial. No storylines, plots or character development of any real worth. It is, literally, as shallow as a puddle.
I am currently smarting at the fact that two of my favourite shows from 2013 - 'The Hour' and 'Ripper Street' - have been shelved. In both shows the acting has been of the highest order and the contribution of each actor to the 'whole' created superb ensemble productions. Each individual was valued and nurtured so we as the audience enjoyed discovering different facets of each character's personality and make-up. The stories were captivating, and occasionally heartbreaking, so the audience actually cared about the characters. Although in each drama, the sets and costumes were impressive and felt authentic, I never felt that they dominated the piece, just added value to already outstanding productions.
By comparison, despite its glorious appearance, DA is now just a sad caricature and, as a viewer, I have (almost) stopped having an emotional investment in any of the characters largely due to the fact that they have become so utterly one-dimensional and frankly unbelievable.
It was all very odd - why did Edith pick him as I was surprised she would know who he was. I thought only Mary, Tom and Robert would have had dealings with tenants - not Edith.
This man had been helped out by Robert i.e. given a loan to repay his fathers debts by him so he could take on the tenancy on the estate. So why would he then be involved in trying to deceive Robert by helping Edith out.
Would he also believe the same man who helped him could be so cruel as to leave an orphan destitute and refuse to allow Edith to care for it just cos Cora and him didn't like the mother?
It was probably all dreamt up in a split second - but its clearly ridiculous. Perhaps he will use the money he gets off Edith - to repay his debt to Robert!:D Or maybe even blackmail Edith.
The whole bit with Edith was ridiculous to me. It was meant to make her appear spirited etc. But to me she came off as unrealistic and childish. I guess they needed to do something about that baby.
Edith knows the farmer. They had a scene together late in S4.
I´m also not keen on the idea of Tom and Edith ... and I think he would find it very odd, although I know it happened, to be married to the love of his life´s sister. I don´t think Edith would ever live up to Sybil in his eyes which would be a shame for her as she´d be second best again.
I quite like the idea of Tom and Madeline. She seems perfect for him, kind, sweet and modern but with a rebellious streak. I think the story with Harold showed she is now not looking just to marry for money or into society and is looking for love and happiness as much as anything else. ( she as much as said she wouldn´t be going along with any of her father´s schemes anymore ) I think she could be a great wife for Tom and a lovely mother to Sybbie.
I suppose the scene Edith had with him last year was deliberate and she mentioned him to Roselyn too as someone who could help. It does seem a bit random I suppose but no more so than if the farmer hadn´t have existed and some other farm worker or villager had appeared out of nowhere to take the baby in.
I definitely think the farmer guessed she is Edith´s baby which is why he didn´t need to believe Robert and Cora wouldn´t take the baby in, and Robert is still very old fashioned in some ways so it´s not that unbelievable although I agree he might feel a bit more awarkward and need a bit more persuading to decieve Robert. I guess he really needs the money!
The main gripe I had with the logistics of the story were would it really be that easy to pop over to Switzerland and bring a baby back to the UK. Were there passports in those days etc? I guess Edith would have a copy of the baby´s birth certificate and she said there was no legal agreement but the adoptive family may make things difficult and the baby must have been registered in some form in Switzerland? I also would have liked to see a scene with maybe Edith and Sybbie, showing her new maternal feelings!
No, it wasn't difficult to move children around back then. It wasn't like it is now. As for the Swiss family if they had no legal agreement then Edith was within her rights to reclaim her daughter. Just like she will be able to from the farmer when the times comes, if he doesn't die first. She is still the legal mother.
We're bound to see Edith being maternal in S5. There's no way she's going to stay away from the baby. She'll find ways to secretly see her daughter. The farmer will have to help her as he's being paid.
Next series is going to be all about several men fighting over a cold stuffy woman. Sounds rather tedious.
The CS was saved by the scenes beteween Violet and Isobel and the prospect of Edith having her baby living on her doorstep in a mucky farm.
I love the show and I'm afraid it has become a bit of a parody of itself.
The "Let battle commence" line was cringeworthy, and should have shown Gillingham that she didnt have strong feelings for either man. If I was Gillingham it would have turned me right off Mary.
Mary was especially unlikable in the CS. I can't stand her at the best of times but she was 95% vile in it. She's just a stuck up cow. She was worse than annoying Sarah.
Rose may be shallow and immature but she's nice enough with it. And Edith was a complete sweetheart.
I agree, there would have been little difficulty in taking a child with you travelling across countries. Passports then were only held by the "well to do" I also agree that Edith will be wanting to see her daughter as often as she can, even if its watching from a distance. It will be interesting to see how "her secret" comes to light.
I reckon some characters will notice her overinterest in the baby. Mrs Hughes already seemed like she suspected the truth of why Edith had been away. Tom will be the first of the family to work it out I reckon. Him or Rose.
Isobel is another who'd pick up things. As for Robert, Cora and Mary, I think they'll find out in some melodramatic way. Maybe there's an illness or accident with the baby, Edith hears and in her panic she reveals it's her daughter. I can see something like that happening. Typical JF
[PHP]Originally Posted by bookaddict
The "Let battle commence" line was cringeworthy, and should have shown Gillingham that she didnt have strong feelings for either man. If I was Gillingham it would have turned me right off Mary.
[/PHP]
I love the character of Mary, all of it. To my mind the "let battle commence" was just a figure of speech and I don't actually see a battle between the two men, as I suspect Mary already has leanings in one particular direction. In fact as the next series is likely to open in late winter / early spring 1924 it may already have been decided and we pick up from there.
The other thing from the scene with Blake and Mary outside of Grantham House that was missing is Julien Ovenden is also a singer and seeing him walk away I felt he should have burst into "I could have danced all Night", which is what they had been doing.LOL:D
I hope Cora is suitably annoyed with Roselyn when she finds out rather than just being her usual passive self. If Roselyn hadn´t been so forceful I think Edith would have eventually told her mother and Cora may have found a different solution for her and the baby even if it mean´t defying Robert. There were a few scenes last series when I felt she was near confiding in her but didn´t want to disappoint her mother.
What would the damage be to Edith´s status if she adopted
How would Edith´s status be affected if she were to say adopt an orphan from a neighbour .... would that be as terrible as being an unmarried mother of her own child which of course suggests she´s had sex out of marriage. Adopting a child doesn´t carry that stigma ...?
How would Edith´s status be affected if she were to say adopt an orphan from a neighbour .... would that be as terrible as being an unmarried mother of her own child which of course suggests she´s had sex out of marriage. Adopting a child doesn´t carry that stigma although I guess may still affect her prospects?
I think that the letter was in his jacket pocket - not in his coat pocket - and Bates picked his pocket whilst helping him on with his coat.
Mrs. Hughes would notice, I agree, when Edith keeps coming down to the kitchen and asking if Mrs. Patmore can make a basket to take to that nice Pig Family. But Hughes would keep it to herself. She's discreet.
I think Tom will figure it out. Rose is fairly intuitive but she's preoccupied with her social life and doesn't have the life experience to put two and two together in this case, IMO.
Tom is in the right position to discover it: he's the Agent so he'll be visiting the Drewes a lot to see the pigs, he is more tuned in to Edith than the family and they seemed to have established an alliance of sorts, and he is just more emotionally intelligent in general IMO. Tom is in touch with his feelings and he isn't scared of them, even when they're painful. He doesn't sweep them under the rug the way the English do (as we were reminded in that conversation with Mary, Edith and Tony).
Also he lived with a pregnant woman and was raised in closer quarters where kids were not as shielded from things like pregnancy, birth and death. He ate breakfast with Edith most days. Even if he didn't suspect she was pregnant back in her first months, he might realize in retrospect that she was showing signs. And put it all together.
I mean, honestly, Mary and the parents will never figure it out. They're all too oblivious, too self-absorbed, or too dumb. She could have been walking around six months pregnant in front of them and they would not have noticed.
And I agree with all those who said Mary is vile, cold, and stuffy. What these men see in her is beyond me. If I were Tony I would go for Rose. She's younger, nicer, more fun and she's beautiful. I think she'd be a better wife and mother in the long run.
Sarah is worse than annoying. She's unbearable. Someone I know said in that scene at the house it almost felt like she was an intruder. She's like Edna, except she didn't break into his room and violate him. But she still has terrible boundary issues. IDK why JF keeps subjecting Tom to these pushy ,manipulative women.
And Edith was lovely in the CS. I like her more and more and I like her new friendship with Tom. More than I like his bond with Mary really. They have more in common.
I completely agree, but I don't see it happen. She was so lovely and sweet! But obviously only reserved for old Harold. And although it grossed me out how she got forced by her father to flirt with Harold, she still made me ship them a little, because she was so lovely.
I would like to see her again!
Tom - "Why wasn't Grantham House sold to pay the family's debts back in series 3?"
Lady Edith - "Oh, I expect it would have been if JF had remembered the family owned a large empty house in London that has never been needed until now."
Subtle.
JF left a few threads for series, both Mrs Patmore and Mary know that Bates was in London, so they will be keeping a secret.
Edith and her baby coming to the village. At some point in time her interest the child will raise suspicion.
I thought it was actually quite to see Mary have a sense of humor and Michelle Dockery is great when she given the chance to it.
The relationship between Carson and Patmore is touching and it is the "will they-won't they" of downstairs, although I suspect Carson might put duty first but the final few minutes did bring a smile.
So maybe not the perfect Downton episode but the overall it was an enjoyable Christmas special
I think you mean Mrs Hughes the housekeeper not Mrs Patmore the cook.
If Edith has a husband when if and when she does it then there would be no stigma. There may be raised eyebrows she'd adopt a farmers daughter but it wouldn't effect her status in society. But if people find out it's her daughter then she's ruined. She wouldn't be accepted into the toffs houses or at their parties. She's be considered a shameless ****.
It could go either way for her. It depends how much melodrama JF wants in S5. I'm convinced one or the other will happen though. It's quite obvious she'll get to raise her daughter eventually.
It was a bit shoehorned in lol. JF had to explain why they had a big house when they couldn't afford it in the past.
But it gave Tom and Edith another bonding scene. One way or another those two will become close in S5. Whether romantically or as surrogate siblings. They keep having these kind of scenes where they can talk and are on the same level with each other. It also allowed a Matthew mention.
As for Mary and her "let battle commence" comment, I don't think it was amusing. It was just arrogant.
Yes it was Mrs Hughes I meant
Not a fan girl of Mary, butI like her sense of humor, overall.