Top Of The Pops 1979 (BBC4)

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  • bryemycazbryemycaz Posts: 11,737
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    TUC wrote: »
    Whereas without the other two they're just a sell-out.

    I can see why people say that but I liked the last album Quid Pro Quo that was a good Rock album. However the split causes major agro amongst the fans so I am not suprised others think the same.
  • player1player1 Posts: 2,518
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    bryemycaz wrote: »
    To be fair to them though they have just finished a sell out reunion tour of the original line up. It would be great if they could carry on but Alan Lancaster has got some health problems. I don't think he would be able to commit to the band full time anymore.

    Though tracks like this show that they can still Rock with the best of them. The orignal band still have that power.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEjYQHg3bvw

    I saw them at the Glasgow O2 Academy last week, also on last years first reunion tour and it convinced me never again to go see Panto Quo .... I really don't know how Rossi is so insistent on returning to the lighter lineup.
  • bryemycazbryemycaz Posts: 11,737
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    player1 wrote: »
    I saw them at the Glasgow O2 Academy last week, also on last years first reunion tour and it convinced me never again to go see Panto Quo .... I really don't know how Rossi is so insistent on returning to the lighter lineup.

    Ahh Panto Quo are you on the Unofficial Message board ? as, by you using that term I suspect you are ;-).

    Seriously though I can sort of understand why he wants to go back. However Frames a odd one he plays the industry at times. He seemed to have enjoyed himself from the vids I have seen. Wish I could have gone However I have not been able to for family and financial reasons.
  • player1player1 Posts: 2,518
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    bryemycaz wrote: »
    Ahh Panto Quo are you on the Unofficial Message board ? as, by you using that term I suspect you are ;-).

    I did read the message board in the build up to the tour but don't post their. The gig last week took me back to my very first quo gig - the recording of the Live album at the Apollo.

    All,sorry for the slight tangent, I'll spare you my reminiscences of the Mud reboot in Blackpool :D

    Enjoying these TOTP's - 70s was definitely my era
  • bryemycazbryemycaz Posts: 11,737
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    player1 wrote: »
    I did read the message board in the build up to the tour but don't post their. The gig last week took me back to my very first quo gig - the recording of the Live album at the Apollo.

    All,sorry for the slight tangent, I'll spare you my reminiscences of the Mud reboot in Blackpool :D

    Enjoying these TOTP's - 70s was definitely my era

    Lucky you for going to that one. 70s music is my era though I was born in 1978, I didnt care much for the music of the 80s and 90s growing up.

    Actually thinking about it from an earlier post the one of the songs that we will see from the Quo this year on TOTP 79. Is not like the others, Living On Island.

    BTW this clip from a rediscovered 1970 edition of TOTP has appered

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTcs8i1CCNs
  • faversham saintfaversham saint Posts: 2,535
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    bryemycaz wrote: »
    Of the glam acts only Slade just about manged to get over the glam pop era. They were a great rock band with a glam image.
    staticgirl wrote: »
    Far-right 'fans' turning up to gigs

    Although Slade never indulged in political posturing they had a loyal skinhead following prior to embracing the glam image and it is notable that when 'Slade Alive!' was recorded in October 1971 the group did not have a single top ten hit to their name (they eventually went on to have sixteen). 12 months or so after this album was made the band was playing sell-out concerts at the Empire Pool, Wembley in front of a 20,000 capacity crowd (predominantly made up of hysterical teenagers) but Chas Chandler managed to capture them on vinyl in their previous natural habitat - a tiny, cramped, sweaty venue, packed with a hundred or more inebriated and rowdy "skins".

    I mentioned in a recent post that a music journalist once characterised Slade's early material as 'punk without the attitude' and I think 'In Like A Shot From My Gun' has shades of the future Sex Pistols in its tempo, riff and guitar licks. Although other tracks on the album feature more hand clapping, boot stomping and communal chanting the drunken audience still manage to make themselves heard throughout this song, and after it finishes when Holder invites them to shout out anything they like:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifrM57z15Vo
  • bryemycazbryemycaz Posts: 11,737
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    Although Slade never indulged in political posturing they had a loyal skinhead following prior to embracing the glam image and it is notable that when 'Slade Alive!' was recorded in mid October 1971 the group still did not have a single top ten hit to their name (they eventually went on to have sixteen). 12 months or so after this album was made the group were playing sell-out concerts at the Empire Pool, Wembley in front of a 20,000 capacity crowd (predominantly made up of hysterical teenagers) but Chas Chandler managed to capture them on vinyl in their previous natural habitat - a tiny, cramped, sweaty venue, packed with a hundred or more inebriated and rowdy "skins".

    I mentioned in an earlier post that a music journalist once characterised their early material as 'punk without the attitude' and I think 'In Like A Shot From My Gun' has shades of the Sex Pistols in its tempo, riff and guitar licks. Although other tracks on the album feature more hand clapping, boot stomping and communal chanting the drunken audience still manage to make themselves heard throughout this song, and after it finishes when Holder invites them to shout out anything they like:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifrM57z15Vo

    I have always thought the same about early 70s Quo stuff. Paper Plane especially, Quo had a kind of punk attitude. With Francis saying stuff like "Hello were Status Quo you wont like us. We make records and we are very loud".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhwCqAmggnM

    When Quo supported Slade in the early 70s it must have been one hell of a night out.
  • ClareBClareB Posts: 2,597
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    Servalan wrote: »
    As you quite rightly say, nostalgia is on the wane by 1979, with the fortunes of those groups you mention all in decline.

    As I recall, all those re-releases Rich has singled out came from the same record label: Lightning. Lightning was at this point better known as a reggae label - they licensed 'Up Town Top Ranking' and 'Money In My Pocket' and scored UK chart hits with them - but also had an interest in re-issues, and these titles were part of its Old Gold brand, which I think I'm right in saying became a label in its own right by the 1980s.

    As for why this rash of titles all charted … at the risk of being controversial, Lightning was at this point distributed by WEA, which would be within a year be the focus of a World In Action programme about allegedly hyping singles into the chart. Might these re-releases have been part of that phenomenon?

    All idle speculation, of course - whatever the case, there rurally wasn't sufficient interest in that kind of music by this point in the 70s, and that's why their chart appearances were short-lived.

    For anyone interested in this, here's a link to to that World In Action programme. A real eye-opener as to what was going on at the time.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQ2x2gbYUgg
  • ServalanServalan Posts: 10,167
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    JezR wrote: »
    From memory these were a special issue of picture discs with a different old car on one side of them. So nostalgic in more than one sense.

    The plot thickens … ;-)

    That wouldn't be that much of a surprise: WEA led the way in the UK with picture discs and they were the company's preferred marketing tool in 1979 (as discussed previously with Liner).

    Question: at what point did record companies start taking the money to cover these marketing gimmicks from artist royalties? I'm guessing that was an 80s phenomenon - I'd guess it was more about stimulating sales in a competitive marketplace to start off with, and the accountants took hold in the next decade …
  • staticgirlstaticgirl Posts: 55
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    Ah yes I've seen a documentary where the members of Slade talk about how Skinhead culture had an influence on their sound and dress, it was really interesting.

    It's a bit redundant me saying so because you will know well enough that that was 'true' skinhead culture unlike the <insert swear word here> that came later in the late 70s/80s.

    I remember Oasis used to count the Sex Pistols and Slade as big influences of theirs around the time of Definitely Maybe which accounts for why that record had a spark the others lacked. There is definitely a link between Slade and Sex Pistols in the way they sounded if nothing else.
  • LittleGirlOf7LittleGirlOf7 Posts: 9,344
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    Much has been said about the younglings of today's music buying habits and tastes on here recently. Turns out the kids aren't all iPod, downloading zombies after all:

    One in ten young people buy cassette tapes...



    Funnily enough, I've been in the record shop featured in the photo which is on a small road between Berwick Street and Wardour Street in London's Soho. Berwick Street appears on the cover of '(What's The Story) Morning Glory?' by Oasis, which I still have on cassette. It was the very tape played on the coach home after the last school trip before our final GCSEs as I was the only one to have brought it along. I don't have the greatest memories of my time at school but one of a handful I will treasure is everyone in my year on that coach singing 'Champagne Supernova' at the tops of our voices.
  • Heston VestonHeston Veston Posts: 6,495
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    staticgirl wrote: »
    Ah yes I've seen a documentary where the members of Slade talk about how Skinhead culture had an influence on their sound and dress, it was really interesting.

    It's a bit redundant me saying so because you will know well enough that that was 'true' skinhead culture unlike the <insert swear word here> that came later in the late 70s/80s.

    I remember Oasis used to count the Sex Pistols and Slade as big influences of theirs around the time of Definitely Maybe which accounts for why that record had a spark the others lacked. There is definitely a link between Slade and Sex Pistols in the way they sounded if nothing else.

    What's this, Oasis influences other than the Beatles?!? When did this happen?!
  • LittleGirlOf7LittleGirlOf7 Posts: 9,344
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    What's this, Oasis influences other than the Beatles?!? When did this happen?!

    I take it you missed their widely known cover of 'Cum On Feel The Noize'.
  • ServalanServalan Posts: 10,167
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    corriander wrote: »
    Sweet might have learned from the case of the Tremeloes which is a very interesting example of how not to handle a career.

    The Tremeloes post Brian Poole, that is from 1967 had a series of big hits which were often Italian songs with English lyrics or in the case of Silence is Golden, a Four Seasons B side. They were huge for a while.:)

    However, the band were extremely talented and very diverse and wished to move on to more "serious" music written by themselves. They even turned down Yellow River which became a number one for Christie, but which would surely have hit the top for the Tremeloes.

    Instead they released a rather good album written by themselves in the middle of 1970. At first, they scored highly with the self-written Me and My Life. Their idea at the time was to try to release a less commercial and then a more commercial track, according to one of their writers the late Alan Blakely. He even was quoted as saying that those who had bought their early commercial tracks were "morons.":o

    Just to be awkward they released a sort of rock track whose name I have forgotten, but similar to Star Studded Sham. It was totally different to anything they had done before and was a complete flop and they never had another hit. They released a series of excellent single in diverse styles through 1974--highlights include Blue Suede Tie and Ride On--but never had another hit.:(

    It is a bit of an extreme case and neither Sweet nor Mud ever alienated their fans, but it was out there as a warning. It is very hard to change a hit formula or move away from it..:)

    Although Kylie was later to be the master of just this.:)

    Interesting case study - and truth be told, pop music is littered with groups who wanted to break free from the writing/production teams who made them successful (the Rubettes would be another case from the 70s and the Monkees an even more acute one from the 60s).

    I'm not sure to what extent Kylie actually succeeded in changing her sound, though … when she first left PWL, her success rate wasn't exactly successful and collaborating with Nick Cave or the Manic Street Preachers didn't exactly reap dividends. When she relaunched herself in 2000, it was with a disco/pop sound not a million miles away from the more mature PWL material, albeit more knowing and with a more sophisticated production … so I'd say it was more about realigning herself with the market who helped maintain her popularity in the first place.
  • Rich Tea.Rich Tea. Posts: 22,048
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    Servalan wrote: »
    As you quite rightly say, nostalgia is on the wane by 1979, with the fortunes of those groups you mention all in decline.

    As I recall, all those re-releases Rich has singled out came from the same record label: Lightning. Lightning was at this point better known as a reggae label - they licensed 'Up Town Top Ranking' and 'Money In My Pocket' and scored UK chart hits with them - but also had an interest in re-issues, and these titles were part of its Old Gold brand, which I think I'm right in saying became a label in its own right by the 1980s.

    As for why this rash of titles all charted … at the risk of being controversial, Lightning was at this point distributed by WEA, which would be within a year be the focus of a World In Action programme about allegedly hyping singles into the chart. Might these re-releases have been part of that phenomenon?

    All idle speculation, of course - whatever the case, there rurally wasn't sufficient interest in that kind of music by this point in the 70s, and that's why their chart appearances were short-lived.
    When I suddenly noticed about 5 original oldies all entering the singles chart in the very same week of w/e 14th April 1979 I was immediately thinking it looked somewhat artificial in some way. Certainly could be a very plausible explanation you offer. Tracks making the positions No50 to No75 would likely be shifting maybe 3,000 to 5,000 copies per week I'm guessing at the time? It would be interesting to know if these tracks were themselves being playlisted on radio at the time to give them any meaningful exposure as re-releases or not. It would not seem so curious in the download era nowadays but in the context of 1979 when it meant going out and buying a vinyl single it certainly does to me.
    Jedikiah wrote: »
    Very interesting !

    I can remember buying a lot of those Old Gold singles back in the eighties.
    I have absolutely no recollection of these "Old Gold" singles from the 80's at all. These are presumably very different releases from the tracks that were in TV ads or in films that became huge hits again, such as those you listed previously.
    ClareB wrote: »
    For anyone interested in this, here's a link to to that World In Action programme. A real eye-opener as to what was going on at the time.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQ2x2gbYUgg
    This is one I will be watching later. I feel sure I may have seen at least a snippet of it once before. On the face of it I suppose the UK singles chart was easier to manipulate then than it is now, with it made up overwhelmingly of downloads now. But I'd also bet that in the whole of the past 60 years or so there hasn't been a week go by when someone somewhere hasn't tried to manipulate in some way, big or small. Never mind the actual artists and record companies, I actually think that those who compile the charts themselves nowadays are open to plenty of manipulation in how they decide to collect data and all the rules they decide to implement.

    World In Action, now there was a serious investigative programme. Just the opening titles make you realise it was a show that meant business. It should still be on, it would not be short of topics. But of course pretend soap operas are far more important nowadays to ITV, can't let something real and hard hitting get in the way can they. :(
    Servalan wrote: »
    The plot thickens … ;-)

    That wouldn't be that much of a surprise: WEA led the way in the UK with picture discs and they were the company's preferred marketing tool in 1979 (as discussed previously with Liner).

    Question: at what point did record companies start taking the money to cover these marketing gimmicks from artist royalties? I'm guessing that was an 80s phenomenon - I'd guess it was more about stimulating sales in a competitive marketplace to start off with, and the accountants took hold in the next decade …
    I would never buy a single based on anything other than whether I liked the track enough. Absolutely never. A shame if there really were people out there who would buy a single based on a picture disc, even if they disliked the song on it. In most cases I think it might just have tipped the balance of those who were undecided on a particular song and the picture disc just edged the purchase for them. The "Wild Boys" Duran Duran single always comes to mind with this issue. 5 different singles with a different band member on them in late 1984. I can't believe the stories that it really made people go and buy 5 copies of the exact same single, which surely must be some kind of urban legend. A handful might have done, but not widely.
    Much has been said about the younglings of today's music buying habits and tastes on here recently. Turns out the kids aren't all iPod, downloading zombies after all:

    One in ten young people buy cassette tapes...

    Funnily enough, I've been in the record shop featured in the photo which is on a small road between Berwick Street and Wardour Street in London's Soho. Berwick Street appears on the cover of '(What's The Story) Morning Glory?' by Oasis, which I still have on cassette. It was the very tape played on the coach home after the last school trip before our final GCSEs as I was the only one to have brought it along. I don't have the greatest memories of my time at school but one of a handful I will treasure is everyone in my year on that coach singing 'Champagne Supernova' at the tops of our voices.
    That is a bit of a surprise. I thought there was something of a vinyl revival, but TAPES! As many as I have got, and I am in the early stages of digitising my home taped ones currently, I do not miss tapes one bit although they do have a nice nostalgic aspect from radio taping days but nothing much more for me. Although I have kept some of mine very well, they have got a disappointing sound quality now that has diminished since the early to mid 1980's. Apparently the life of them is rated at just 30 years anyway. Spooling tapes back and forth to find the exact place was always tedious too. Using an iPod and then going back through tapes again is no contest - iPod wins for me.

    I got that Oasis album for Christmas in 1995 on a CD. I have never listened to the whole album to this day.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 76
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    I take it you missed their widely known cover of 'Cum On Feel The Noize'.

    Do you mean the decidedly average cover of 'Cum on feel the Noize'? I remember when O@$!$ first appeared and everyone was raving about this brilliant song of theirs called 'Cum on feel the Noize'. "The old Slade hit?" was my next question, "Who's Slade?" was the reply. Sigh. I duly tuned in to TOTP to witness a medicocre performance of it by a mediocre pub band. In fact at the time I saw loads of bands in pubs and the vast majority of them were far better than these chancers.

    Anyway enough of that, anyone know where the 19th april edition can be found?
  • chemical2009bchemical2009b Posts: 5,250
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    bodegg wrote: »
    Do you mean the decidedly average cover of 'Cum on feel the Noize'? I remember when O@$!$ first appeared and everyone was raving about this brilliant song of theirs called 'Cum on feel the Noize'. "The old Slade hit?" was my next question, "Who's Slade?" was the reply. Sigh. I duly tuned in to TOTP to witness a medicocre performance of it by a mediocre pub band. In fact at the time I saw loads of bands in pubs and the vast majority of them were far better than these chancers.

    Anyway enough of that, anyone know where the 19th april edition can be found?

    The BBC archives at least.
  • corriandercorriander Posts: 6,207
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    ClareB wrote: »
    For anyone interested in this, here's a link to to that World In Action programme. A real eye-opener as to what was going on at the time.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQ2x2gbYUgg

    Thanks. Fascinating.:)
  • corriandercorriander Posts: 6,207
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    Servalan wrote: »
    Interesting case study - and truth be told, pop music is littered with groups who wanted to break free from the writing/production teams who made them successful (the Rubettes would be another case from the 70s and the Monkees an even more acute one from the 60s).

    I'm not sure to what extent Kylie actually succeeded in changing her sound, though … when she first left PWL, her success rate wasn't exactly successful and collaborating with Nick Cave or the Manic Street Preachers didn't exactly reap dividends. When she relaunched herself in 2000, it was with a disco/pop sound not a million miles away from the more mature PWL material, albeit more knowing and with a more sophisticated production … so I'd say it was more about realigning herself with the market who helped maintain her popularity in the first place.

    Fair dinkum.:)

    My point was just that she escaped the PWL sound partly by developing with them--her outstanding 1991 single--Shocked is a good example, and then eventually leaving them:(

    She then went to other producers and became less commercial for several years but still had hits. She became Indiekylie as I recall.:o

    Then she went back to being super-commercial from about 2000. She literally recreated herself but how many artists can do that? Only the greatest such as Madonna and Cliff. Excellent groups like the ones you cite and the Tremeloes struggled to do this.:(

    It's a funny old world.:confused:
  • LittleGirlOf7LittleGirlOf7 Posts: 9,344
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    Rich Tea. wrote: »
    That is a bit of a surprise. I thought there was something of a vinyl revival, but TAPES! As many as I have got, and I am in the early stages of digitising my home taped ones currently, I do not miss tapes one bit although they do have a nice nostalgic aspect from radio taping days but nothing much more for me. Although I have kept some of mine very well, they have got a disappointing sound quality now that has diminished since the early to mid 1980's. Apparently the life of them is rated at just 30 years anyway. Spooling tapes back and forth to find the exact place was always tedious too. Using an iPod and then going back through tapes again is no contest - iPod wins for me.

    I got that Oasis album for Christmas in 1995 on a CD. I have never listened to the whole album to this day.

    It's funny really, but had I got the album on CD then that lasting memory of the coach trip home wouldn't exist. Having the cassette made that moment for everyone as the coach only had a tape player and very scratchy radio.

    By the way, how are you going about converting your tapes? I have quite a lot I wouldn't mind transferring.
    bodegg wrote: »
    Do you mean the decidedly average cover of 'Cum on feel the Noize'? I remember when O@$!$ first appeared and everyone was raving about this brilliant song of theirs called 'Cum on feel the Noize'. "The old Slade hit?" was my next question, "Who's Slade?" was the reply. Sigh. I duly tuned in to TOTP to witness a medicocre performance of it by a mediocre pub band. In fact at the time I saw loads of bands in pubs and the vast majority of them were far better than these chancers.

    Anyway enough of that, anyone know where the 19th april edition can be found?

    When Elvis Costello released, 'I Can't Stand Up For Falling Down' did you know it was originally a Sam & Dave track? Different generations don't necessarily know what's come before, especially if it's not regularly played on music outlets like radio or TV contemporary to them. Before Oasis covered it, how often had 'Cum On Feel The Noize' been played in the 90s? Slade were almost solely known for Merry Xmas Everybody at the time purely due to airplay. It was the early 2000s before I first heard, 'Coz I Luv You'. It's a great song, but I simply hadn't heard it until then as it hadn't particularly been played where I would hear it. Equally, how many from older generations were aware that the song on last year's John Lewis advert - 'Somewhere Only We Know' sung by Lily Allen - was actually by Keane? My mum wasn't familiar with the original and it wasn't especially from that long ago. It happens.


    Don't know about '(What's The Story) Morning Glory?' having an edition out for the 19th. I'm guessing your referring to Record Store Day(?). There's a special 12" release of 'Supersonic', which was a single off their first album, 'Definitely Maybe', for it though.
  • staticgirlstaticgirl Posts: 55
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    Whether you liked their cover version or not (I don't think they were great at covers, myself, although I do have a copy of their version of Merry Xmas Everyone) it stands that the Gallagher brothers talked about other bands besides the Beatles in interviews when they started out.

    I have bought an album because I liked the cover of it without knowing what the band sounded like. It was Warehouse: Songs and Stories by Husker Du and it was one of the best outcomes of taking a chance I ever took.

    I've concerted some of the tunes from cassette that I couldn't find online in any format. I just used a usb to hi-fi cable (cheap and cheerful from Maplin) and free software Audacity to convert the sounds captured into MP3. It's very fiddly and I'd need to resign from work in order to have time to do all of them but it's nice to listen to some of the old indie-schmindie from the 80s again.
  • Rich Tea.Rich Tea. Posts: 22,048
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    It's funny really, but had I got the album on CD then that lasting memory of the coach trip home wouldn't exist. Having the cassette made that moment for everyone as the coach only had a tape player and very scratchy radio.

    By the way, how are you going about converting your tapes? I have quite a lot I wouldn't mind transferring.



    When Elvis Costello released, 'I Can't Stand Up For Falling Down' did you know it was originally a Sam & Dave track? Different generations don't necessarily know what's come before, especially if it's not regularly played on music outlets like radio or TV contemporary to them. Before Oasis covered it, how often had 'Cum On Feel The Noize' been played in the 90s? Slade were almost solely known for Merry Xmas Everybody at the time purely due to airplay. It was the early 2000s before I first heard, 'Coz I Luv You'. It's a great song, but I simply hadn't heard it until then as it hadn't particularly been played where I would hear it. Equally, how many from older generations were aware that the song on last year's John Lewis advert - 'Somewhere Only We Know' sung by Lily Allen - was actually by Keane? My mum wasn't familiar with the original and it wasn't especially from that long ago. It happens.


    Don't know about '(What's The Story) Morning Glory?' having an edition out for the 19th. I'm guessing your referring to Record Store Day(?). There's a special 12" release of 'Supersonic', which was a single off their first album, 'Definitely Maybe', for it though.
    There is no quick way of transferring tapes to digital unfortunately. It all has to be done in real time, which means a lot of time.

    Dipstick! The 19th April the poster Bodegg is referring to is this weeks missed out edition of TOTP! :D

    This short clips bit of the 19/4/79 TOTP is the best I've managed to find;

    http://youtu.be/TxaSHDBJ8mg

    Couldn't find a full show on Vimeo, where fellow poster Darnall often provides links to the missing shows.
  • Westy2Westy2 Posts: 14,490
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    Must admit I had a cheap Usb tape converter from Aldi the other day.
  • ClareBClareB Posts: 2,597
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    Some clips from the missing show

    Child - www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pPlOEsMlFE
    Legs and co/Jacksons - www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMw0sdoC78k
    Dusty Springfield - www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMw0sdoC78k

    The only performance not on youtube is the Gordon Giltrap band. The rest was just repeats and videos.
  • Rich Tea.Rich Tea. Posts: 22,048
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    ClareB wrote: »
    Some clips from the missing show

    Child - www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pPlOEsMlFE
    Legs and co/Jacksons - www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMw0sdoC78k
    Dusty Springfield - www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMw0sdoC78k

    The only performance not on youtube is the Gordon Giltrap band. The rest was just repeats and videos.

    DLT told a whopper about Gill from Legs & Co in that clip above. She was neither 17 nor 43 the day before. She was 20, and therefore it's her 55th birthday tomorrow.

    You've posted the same clip twice above. The Dusty one is the Wings clip again.
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