Enjoyed pretty much everything about River Song - the story of her background, the regular flirting and quips, the occasional sad moments, the playing off against a Doctor who looked younger than her but was actually far older - and the obvious fun that Alex had in playing her.
At least as much as any of that, I absolutely love Alex for doing a Tennant and projecting such a positive vibe whenever Doctor Who was mentioned - she never once said or did anything that didn't scream "This show is great and you need to watch it".
I'd be more than happy to see River again - I rate her as a major part of what's made DW popular since 2005 - but I'm also thinking that her story has a beginning, middle and end and any attempt to bring her back would need to be very carefully written to avoid ruining the legacy.
Only thing I disliked was I found it rather odd that someone would marry their best friends daughter especially when they were present to witness them being born and held as a baby
Nit-picking but he wasn't present at the birth - that happened on Demons Run and coincided with him melting Amygoo - and he actually never saw her as a baby - he only saw a flesh copy.
More serious - you're missing the time reversal. He knew and was attracted to the adult River Song way before he met her parents. If you had a time machine and ended-up seeing your partner as a baby, would you say "That's it, I'm never touching that person again" or would you say "OMG - you were so cute!". In effect, for a time seasoned traveller, seeing someone they already know as a baby is no different to us seeing photos of someone as a nipper.
It must be fairly normal for a long-lived time-traveller to meet the same person at different stages of their life - and we've seen indications that the Doctor doesn't see age in the same way we do - he even holds conversations with babies.
I found her annoying yet entertaining. I think annoying slightly edged it. probably 60-40. The idea of the Doctor having a romance and being married, on the whole, doesn't really do it for me.
I liked her in the library two parter, after that she gradually became more and more annoying until I was very glad when they finally got rid of her. 'Spoilers' and 'sweetie' became such smug and irritating phrases and her whole storyline a couple of series back was not only overly complicated but also rubbish at the same time.
While I always found her character slightly grating even in the library I think that was sort of the point of her. A bit sassy and pouty and arrogant and full of herself. But it seemed such a genius set up I fell in love with idea if not the character.
Alas. Moffat totally ruined the story and wrote himself into ridiculous corners. What should have been an open goal went sailing over the bar as what could and should have been a poignant and tragic love affair with the all important timey wimey element got too messy and descended into incredibly smug and self satisfied space banter among two people who were bearable apart but insufferable when together. So no. On balance I don't like River Song. And as someone else up thread suggested I have a strong suspicion Alex Kingston just plays herself as her character on ER was equally smug and annoying.
Even when one of their scenes even came within a million miles of having some depth and emotional resonance (The farewell in S7, parts of Angels Take Manhattan) River would ruin it by pulling a smug face and spewing out one of her catch phrases.
Oh and also. The fact Moffat pissed away some of the key moments of the River and Doctors history on DVD extras proves even he lost interest in the sorry mess in the end. Possibly. In fact I think he lost interest in Eleven in general.
I loved River Song from the start however I do think that the plotting and scripting as time progressed did not make the most of Alex Kingston and also did a disservice to River's character. The execution of the storyline was always going to be tricky with a younger-looking Doctor and some things were pulled off well and some were not. The law of diminishing returns applied it seems.
A one-off appearance with Calpaldi's Doctor could be done brilliantly well but then again could be an absolute disaster. I would much rather see River again then Amy, Rory, Martha or especially Rose that's for sure.
I loved River, and though perhaps not quite convinced that she and 11 were the ideal pairing, I did find their flirty conversations very funny. Her final (?) farewell in the Name of the Doctor was sweet and touching. Far from being bothered by the catchphrases, I loved them - they always made me smile.
I found most of the idiotic story arcs in series 5, 6 and 7a to be hardly bearable to watch, so it was the characters who kept me interested in DW at that time, and of course their excellent portrayal by the actors.
Matt Smith as the Doctor, Karen as Amy, Arthur as my utterly beloved Rory, and Alex as River raised the game and almost managed to make gold out of dross.
Although I love Alex Kingston I think she was miscast. I got the idea of what they wanted River to be and the whole of her arc was fine but It needed a younger and hotter actress. Maybe a little less overtly flirty but modestly suggestive. Also I thought she was meant to be highly intelligent and a bit of an action hero , i wasn't convinced. I wanted her to be a bit more super spy
I loved River, or at least the idea of her, but feel that Moffat wrote her into a corner - plus he can't write women. I know that's a bit of a cliche, but there's a lot of evidence. E.g. Sally Sparrow saying that "sad is happy for deep people" - smug cow - and Blink is probably Moffat's masterpiece in which she was just a one off. The longer he spent on a character, the more chance to stitch her up. That happened to River, but at least up to series 6 pt one, all of her episodes were great. It was only the resolution where it all fell apart - ask Amy's crack.
As Moffat was apparently the only one allowed to write River, the character had no chance. She could have been witty, loyal, teasing, affectionate, provocative, discreet, sexy, playful and poignant if written by someone else. Instead Moffat settled on emasculating b*ll breaker (see early Amy with Rory). She had some sensitive scenes, but had probably lost a lot of the audience by then. It was on a par to how RTD wrote Martha, she only seemed to exist to make Rose seem special (didn't work for me). Moffat apparently loved River (at least at first) so I don't know why he wrote her that way. Whatever you think of Alex Kingston, she's a strong actress and could have played River any way required. I didn't mind 'spoilers' and 'sweetie' but if people found them tiresome that was probably because of the way they were delivered (imo).
The story could have been so strong. Unlike Clara in series 7, at least River wasn't being written by various people with differing ideas (if any) of who she was. She was a consistent b*ll breaker! When she first appeared, I really thought that this enigma in the hands of the author of Blink could have been amazing. I don't know what's been going on re:budget/producers etc behind the scenes, but River was in less than half of series 6 and even less of 7 so any problems can't be laid totally at her door. Maybe Moffat had a much stronger arc planned, but had to compromise. Who knows?
Also, it wasn't odd at all that Eleven married the daughter of his best friend, who he held as a baby. After all, due to time travel, he first met her (and started to get hot and heavy with her) when she was a (very) mature adult. He only saw her as a child and learnt who she was, after they'd snogged.
Oh lord, I couldn't abide her. She was fine in 'Silence in the Library' (although perhaps slightly annoying) but by the time she appeared in 'Name of the Doctor' I couldn't stand the sight of her!
"Spoilers.." *gurn*
"Sweetie..." *gurn*
Once Moffat had decided to cast Smith he should've dumped the River Song story arc quicker than radioactive waste. Nothing has made me squirm with embarrassment more than the sight of Smith and Kingston 'flirting' with each other during the battle with the Silents at the end of 'The Impossible Astronaut' two-parter.
Ugh! WTF was Moffat thinking of?? 11 and River Song didn't work on any level whatsoever and yet it eventually came to dominate the whole of series 6. She would probably have been better with Capaldi.
So, did you like River Song and would you be happy to see her moon face reappear at some point in the future?
I'm 100% with you on this one, I hated River Song.
River Song from Silence Of The Library was a good one-off character. As a recurring semi-regular character, she simply didn't work.
For a start, it was very clear that she had been created as the companion of a much older doctor. For all the guff spouted about Matt Smith's 'old eyes', he was clearly a young man who had very little chemistry with the older Kingston. They didn't make a convicing on-screen couple, and the incessant flirting seemed an attempt to mask the lack of chemistry.
Also, although it was a clever idea, the flaw of the Doctor meeting River Song in reverse order chronologically was that us, the audience, knew exactly how River 'died', which removed any genuine sense of peril as far as her character was concerned.
It was also hard to identify with her: she was always 'in the know', and knew things that neither the Doctor or the audience knew about. That's pretty insufferable. And of course, because of her inside knowledge, she was extremely smug ("Spoilers" was a terrible catch-phrase).
Rather like Clara in series 7, it seemed as though River Song was a plot device, not a real character. I'm glad that, to all intents and purposes, she's been written out of the show.
The author (Audrey Niffenegger) acknowledged her influence on Moffat's work by having two characters watching an episode of Doctor Who in another of her books. The Episode in Question being The Girl in the Fireplace.
Was just looking up how to spell her name and I see she's currently writing a sequel to Time Travelers Wife.
Wouldn't be surprised if that contained a nod to DW as well.
Was just looking up how to spell her name and I see she's currently writing a sequel to Time Travelers Wife.
It's called "The Time Traveller's Mistress" - soon to be followed by "The Time Traveller's Divorce", "The Time Traveller's Thieving Solicitor" and "The Time Traveller's Increasing Reliance on Alcohol".
Ugh! WTF was Moffat thinking of?? 11 and River Song didn't work on any level whatsoever
It's amazing how some people can't see past the end of their own nose. Obviously lots of people liked her, surely it goes without saying that with any TV character, some will love them, some will hate them, and most people in the middle will be ok with them? To ask "What was Moffat thinking?" just because YOU didn't like her, wow, are you suggesting he should have consulted you personally before bringing her back?
Comments
At least as much as any of that, I absolutely love Alex for doing a Tennant and projecting such a positive vibe whenever Doctor Who was mentioned - she never once said or did anything that didn't scream "This show is great and you need to watch it".
I'd be more than happy to see River again - I rate her as a major part of what's made DW popular since 2005 - but I'm also thinking that her story has a beginning, middle and end and any attempt to bring her back would need to be very carefully written to avoid ruining the legacy.
He knew who she was when they got married he even was there when she regenerated from Mels to River.
He hadn't even fallen for her by that point they had only met a few times
Nit-picking but he wasn't present at the birth - that happened on Demons Run and coincided with him melting Amygoo - and he actually never saw her as a baby - he only saw a flesh copy.
More serious - you're missing the time reversal. He knew and was attracted to the adult River Song way before he met her parents. If you had a time machine and ended-up seeing your partner as a baby, would you say "That's it, I'm never touching that person again" or would you say "OMG - you were so cute!". In effect, for a time seasoned traveller, seeing someone they already know as a baby is no different to us seeing photos of someone as a nipper.
It must be fairly normal for a long-lived time-traveller to meet the same person at different stages of their life - and we've seen indications that the Doctor doesn't see age in the same way we do - he even holds conversations with babies.
Her story did get a little too complicated with her being a child of his companions/his wife/his killer.
It might have been better if she had only been two out of those three
Would welcome a return anytime.
I meant within Doctor Who I know about the Time Travellers Wife that's a good film!
I know it's an old cliche but the book is better!
Alas. Moffat totally ruined the story and wrote himself into ridiculous corners. What should have been an open goal went sailing over the bar as what could and should have been a poignant and tragic love affair with the all important timey wimey element got too messy and descended into incredibly smug and self satisfied space banter among two people who were bearable apart but insufferable when together. So no. On balance I don't like River Song. And as someone else up thread suggested I have a strong suspicion Alex Kingston just plays herself as her character on ER was equally smug and annoying.
Even when one of their scenes even came within a million miles of having some depth and emotional resonance (The farewell in S7, parts of Angels Take Manhattan) River would ruin it by pulling a smug face and spewing out one of her catch phrases.
Oh and also. The fact Moffat pissed away some of the key moments of the River and Doctors history on DVD extras proves even he lost interest in the sorry mess in the end. Possibly. In fact I think he lost interest in Eleven in general.
What she said
A one-off appearance with Calpaldi's Doctor could be done brilliantly well but then again could be an absolute disaster. I would much rather see River again then Amy, Rory, Martha or especially Rose that's for sure.
I found most of the idiotic story arcs in series 5, 6 and 7a to be hardly bearable to watch, so it was the characters who kept me interested in DW at that time, and of course their excellent portrayal by the actors.
Matt Smith as the Doctor, Karen as Amy, Arthur as my utterly beloved Rory, and Alex as River raised the game and almost managed to make gold out of dross.
And I'd love to see her with 12!
As Moffat was apparently the only one allowed to write River, the character had no chance. She could have been witty, loyal, teasing, affectionate, provocative, discreet, sexy, playful and poignant if written by someone else. Instead Moffat settled on emasculating b*ll breaker (see early Amy with Rory). She had some sensitive scenes, but had probably lost a lot of the audience by then. It was on a par to how RTD wrote Martha, she only seemed to exist to make Rose seem special (didn't work for me). Moffat apparently loved River (at least at first) so I don't know why he wrote her that way. Whatever you think of Alex Kingston, she's a strong actress and could have played River any way required. I didn't mind 'spoilers' and 'sweetie' but if people found them tiresome that was probably because of the way they were delivered (imo).
The story could have been so strong. Unlike Clara in series 7, at least River wasn't being written by various people with differing ideas (if any) of who she was. She was a consistent b*ll breaker! When she first appeared, I really thought that this enigma in the hands of the author of Blink could have been amazing. I don't know what's been going on re:budget/producers etc behind the scenes, but River was in less than half of series 6 and even less of 7 so any problems can't be laid totally at her door. Maybe Moffat had a much stronger arc planned, but had to compromise. Who knows?
Also, it wasn't odd at all that Eleven married the daughter of his best friend, who he held as a baby. After all, due to time travel, he first met her (and started to get hot and heavy with her) when she was a (very) mature adult. He only saw her as a child and learnt who she was, after they'd snogged.
I'm 100% with you on this one, I hated River Song.
River Song from Silence Of The Library was a good one-off character. As a recurring semi-regular character, she simply didn't work.
For a start, it was very clear that she had been created as the companion of a much older doctor. For all the guff spouted about Matt Smith's 'old eyes', he was clearly a young man who had very little chemistry with the older Kingston. They didn't make a convicing on-screen couple, and the incessant flirting seemed an attempt to mask the lack of chemistry.
Also, although it was a clever idea, the flaw of the Doctor meeting River Song in reverse order chronologically was that us, the audience, knew exactly how River 'died', which removed any genuine sense of peril as far as her character was concerned.
It was also hard to identify with her: she was always 'in the know', and knew things that neither the Doctor or the audience knew about. That's pretty insufferable. And of course, because of her inside knowledge, she was extremely smug ("Spoilers" was a terrible catch-phrase).
Rather like Clara in series 7, it seemed as though River Song was a plot device, not a real character. I'm glad that, to all intents and purposes, she's been written out of the show.
The author (Audrey Niffenegger) acknowledged her influence on Moffat's work by having two characters watching an episode of Doctor Who in another of her books. The Episode in Question being The Girl in the Fireplace.
Was just looking up how to spell her name and I see she's currently writing a sequel to Time Travelers Wife.
Wouldn't be surprised if that contained a nod to DW as well.
It's called "The Time Traveller's Mistress" - soon to be followed by "The Time Traveller's Divorce", "The Time Traveller's Thieving Solicitor" and "The Time Traveller's Increasing Reliance on Alcohol".
It's amazing how some people can't see past the end of their own nose. Obviously lots of people liked her, surely it goes without saying that with any TV character, some will love them, some will hate them, and most people in the middle will be ok with them? To ask "What was Moffat thinking?" just because YOU didn't like her, wow, are you suggesting he should have consulted you personally before bringing her back?