Almost overnight, Digital 1 is starting to look seriously believable with a lineup of strong stations.
Best of all, most content isn't simulcast on FM, apart from Classic. Quite a contrast to not so long ago when the exclusive content didn't extend much beyond a rather shaky Planet Rock !
The next step would be to make all its music stations stereo, e.g. allowing Absolute 80s, Absolute 90s, Amazing Radio and Jazz FM all to use 112k. That needs 160k which could be found quite painlessly by closing Premier Christian and UCB UK Christian, and by reducing Classic to 128k.
Very few people would even notice these changes, especially as Classic is available on FM for anyone who can spot the difference. Then D1 could really boast that it was offering real choice throughout Great Britain.
Fantastic, just a shame the signal is so bad that most of Britain can't get all the channels that we are suppose to get. when I had a DAB radio a few years back, the signal was awful, I could not get half of the stations I suppose to have got.
I borrowed a DAB radio a few weeks back, still no better, so so much for Digital one improving reception, the BBC muxes are almost as bad.
I like Jazz and would listen to a radio station that had Jazz, but I am not buying a DAb radio to do so. Stick to Classic FM, at least the FM in the name means what it says, JazzFm should be done under the trades description act
Fantastic, just a shame the signal is so bad that most of Britain can't get all the channels that we are suppose to get. when I had a DAB radio a few years back, the signal was awful, I could not get half of the stations I suppose to have got.
I borrowed a DAB radio a few weeks back, still no better, so so much for Digital one improving reception, the BBC muxes are almost as bad.
So at least you get the BBC mux, the BBC are rolling out DAB but the only new site D1 has installed for a while is Wrotham!
Seems the commercial stations are sorting out funding so might start rolling out new D1 and local DAB transmitters soon! http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec/02/digital-radio-dab-funding
The government is understood to have outlined ballpark figures for the cost of DAB rollout – which must match the coverage currently provided by FM before switchover can be a serious consideration – and asked both the BBC and commercial radio to come back to Vaizey with what they are prepared to pay.
One industry insider said they would look to have the funding issues sorted in time for a "coverage summit" in March next year.
Should have happened by now?, Anyone with any news on this?
Speaking to a well known radio futurologist on Twitter earlier this week about the Absolute 80s bitrate drop, apparently most DAB owners are not bothered as they use either a one speaker (mono) receiver or 'Virtual Mono' where the speakers are not far away enough for the ear to receive stereo separation.
Lack of stereo is very noticeable in the car.
The other thing is that iPod and iPhone culture (other devices are available) means that listening on earphones is even more prevalent now than it was in the days of the Walkman, and mono sounds quite odd on earphones. It is possible to listen to the radio on a 3G phone but not in many areas and not if you have to pay for data. So stereo is still important for radio listening outside the home.
DAB has no future, wi-fi and internet radio reign supreme!
Isn't there a stat somewhere that says that if *just* Chris Moyles' total audience started listening online, then the whole internet would grind to a halt... or.... there just isn't the available bandwidth for this to be possible.
i.e. internet radio simply cannot replace broadcast radio.
Isn't there a stat somewhere that says that if *just* Chris Moyles' total audience started listening online, then the whole internet would grind to a halt... or.... there just isn't the available bandwidth for this to be possible.
i.e. internet radio simply cannot replace broadcast radio.
It really does strike me as odd that so many people think it would be logical to replace one transmission, which can be accessed by as many people as want to receive it, with individual 'signals' sent to each listener. How can that ever make sense?
I expect most new sets will have decoders and chipsets now optimised for 112k, trouble with audio quality it is subjective and also depends on the type of music you like and how much you are willing to pay, also what kind of set and display you need!
from reviews looks like the evoke 2 is a good portable/table set with good audio, but you need to find shops which allow you to listen to several sets before buying.
It is maybe worth getting a set with wifi internet radio for listen again, latest "HD sound" streams and larger choice of stations?
The new "state of art" 112k encoders do seem better on newer sets rather than older sets!
Sort if agree with you there, my in car dab set-up uses the jvc dab add on kit which has been around for a few years now, we recently had a Ford Mondeo on hire for a few weeks which had a factory fitted Sony DAB radio in it, 112k stereo stations did sound better in that and also ab90's at 64k but I'm nit sure if this was just a result of the radio sound set up which squeezes the top & bottom sound range maybe by design to create a more level overall sound, problems with this is stations like xfm, signal 1, Heat ( on Stoke & Stafford Mux) Kiss & Magic when it was still on regionals all sounded worse then in my own car at 128k stereo.. I still think this should be the minimum allowed for a music station.. As for just 16k difference it gives a much better overall sound across all types if equipment...
P.s ... Kerrang! Still sounded s**t at 64k!!
Don't a radio gas been invented to polish that particular turd..
The other thing is that iPod and iPhone culture (other devices are available) means that listening on earphones is even more prevalent now than it was in the days of the Walkman, and mono sounds quite odd on earphones. It is possible to listen to the radio on a 3G phone but not in many areas and not if you have to pay for data. So stereo is still important for radio listening outside the home.
Dead right. I put Abs80s on today in the car and turned it straight over to another station as it was clear it was in crappy mono.
If a music station is in mono I will not bother listening to it. Especially in the car.
Isn't there a stat somewhere that says that if *just* Chris Moyles' total audience started listening online, then the whole internet would grind to a halt... or.... there just isn't the available bandwidth for this to be possible.
i.e. internet radio simply cannot replace broadcast radio.
Stream it to 16k mono, problem solved. It not like any more is needed as so little music is played
Will I be able to receive them on the bus every morning on a device which cost less that £20?
If so then I'm all for it!!!
Not yet But I can receive internet radio on my Blackberry phone and I often listen while on the train going to work.
There are a few quiet spots but on the whole it's not too bad.
LTE 4G networks to fully cover the UK are likely to be auctioned in 2012, but operators may start installing new network kit before then to get on air ASAP 2013 when they have the new licences. http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/37946/when-is-4g-coming-to-uk
With new 4G LTE handsets in 2013 the mobile networks will be able to cope better with high volumes of radio and TV streaming than they currently do with 3G, but might be initially high cost premium contracts only so DAB will have a purpose, then prices will fall.
Ondas is also hoping to launch a new satellite radio system in 2012 but initial costs may be high!
Dad is naff, but the sound quality on most online stations are worse, there are some that are better than Dab, but only just.
You're joking aren't you?
There are plenty of streams out there that are much better sounding than DAB, including the BBC ones. For example, I'm listening to Swiss station Radio Stadtfilter right now which has a 256k AAC stream. It sounds excellent. This is better than the vast majority out there but there are plenty of stations out there streaming at 192k MP3 or better. And most BBC nationals stream at 128k AAC (equivalent to 256k MP2) apart from Radio 3 which is 192k AAC or 320k AAC for the 'HD' stream.
Even the thousands of 128k MP3 streams should in theory sound better than most DAB stations, all else being equal, as most broadcast at 128k MP2.
There are plenty of streams out there that are much better sounding than DAB, including the BBC ones.
"much better" is subjective depending on kit and types of music.
Not sure what "Noise" has, but a decent DAB set (say the Evoke on a decent DAB signal) can sound better than most speakers supplied with PCs and laptops listening to the internet.
But say for a "table" type internet set with a 3" speaker not many would notice the difference between FM, DAB or a HD sound internet stream, also the audio processing used and type of music played can make a difference.
Most of the time in listening in cars, kitchens or bedrooms to radio tends to be mostly a background activity and people tend to be happy with the audio quality of DAB!
It's only when decent Hi Fi or headphones are used say in a living room when listening as a main activity that audio differences between the platforms is more noticeable and the new internet unprocessed HD streams come into their own!
"much better" is subjective depending on kit and types of music.
Not sure what "Noise" has, but a decent DAB set (say the Evoke on a decent DAB signal) can sound better than most speakers supplied with PCs and laptops listening to the internet.
But say for a "table" type internet set with a 3" speaker not many would notice the difference between FM, DAB or a HD sound internet stream, also the audio processing used and type of music played can make a difference.
Most of the time in listening in cars, kitchens or bedrooms to radio tends to be mostly a background activity and people tend to be happy with the audio quality of DAB!
It's only when decent Hi Fi or headphones are used say in a living room when listening as a main activity that audio differences between the platforms is more noticeable and the new internet unprocessed HD streams come into their own!
I'm listening on the Squeezebox Touch which is connected to the hi-fi system, not the computer. So yes the differences are definitely noticeable.
I don't have a DAB radio anymore but I remember what it sounded like and the best internet streams are definitely better than Radio 3's 192k MP2 DAB output, which is the best you can get out of that platform.
Or by launching another national multiplex. How hard would this be, given D1's already extensive transmitter network?
Is it possible to use one set of transmitter gear to broadcast a 2 channel wide multiplex which appears as two multiplexes to the receivers? e.g. Digital 1 on 11D and Digital 2 on 11C from the same transmitter? Is so that might be a very low cost way of rolling out a second network..
I believe this sort of thing is used on DVB-C networks.
Is it possible to use one set of transmitter gear to broadcast a 2 channel wide multiplex which appears as two multiplexes to the receivers? e.g. Digital 1 on 11D and Digital 2 on 11C from the same transmitter? Is so that might be a very low cost way of rolling out a second network..
I believe this sort of thing is used on DVB-C networks.
I remember just before Channel 4's board axed their project it was suggested that they use Digital 1's transmitter sites to keep the costs down. The proposal was for 174 transmitters to cover about 88% of the population as I recall.
Digital 2 would have to use Block 11A - that's the only one that is cleared for national use (RRC 06), and for the moment there would be severe restrictions for NI, West Wales & the south coast of England (until the end of 2012).
I think the answer is that Arqiva would only apply to Ofcom if they thought there were enough stations to fill a second mux. I think that's far from the case at the moment- the future of BFBS is in doubt, Classic FM will probably drop the bitrate to 128k at some point and one or both of the religious stations may disappear by the end of the year.
I think the answer is that Arqiva would only apply to Ofcom if they thought there were enough stations to fill a second mux. I think that's far from the case at the moment- the future of BFBS is in doubt, Classic FM will probably drop the bitrate to 128k at some point and one or both of the religious stations may disappear by the end of the year.
Ofcom in the commercial radio localness consultation recommended the MXR muxes,the central Scotland mux and one of the London muxes be expanded maybe using 11A in some places to become a regionalised D2, but so far looks like current owners Global, GMG and Ford have not taken it up?
The BFBS SSVC contract lasts up to 2013, so unlikely BFBS will give up D1 before then? (unless you know something different) Even after 2013 if SSVC keeps the contract or another company takes over they may still stay on DAB!
UCB and Premier raise enough money from supporters and ads each year to pay staying on DAB.
Hopefully Amazing which is helping musicians will stay!
LTE 4G networks to fully cover the UK are likely to be auctioned in 2012, but operators may start installing new network kit before then to get on air ASAP 2013 when they have the new licences. http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/37946/when-is-4g-coming-to-uk
With new 4G LTE handsets in 2013 the mobile networks will be able to cope better with high volumes of radio and TV streaming than they currently do with 3G, but might be initially high cost premium contracts only so DAB will have a purpose, then prices will fall.
I'll believe it when I see (or hear) it - this was originally going to be the problem solved by 3G networks and handsets, only the handset technology took ages to catch up and deliver the dream whilst having enough battery life to get through a day.
The other thing the operators Will need to upgrade is the network of internet connections feeding the base stations because unless they invest heavily here too there won't actually be much more Internet bandwidth to around.
My guess - we're probably 5 years away if not more from having LTE 4g networks with decent coverage and enough bandwidth to go around.
The BFBS SSVC contract lasts up to 2013, so unlikely BFBS will give up D1 before then? (unless you know something different) Even after 2013 if SSVC keeps the contract or another company takes over they may still stay on DAB!
Sorry, what I meant to say was that BFBS may drop the bit rate down to 64kbps. The main reason for the service on D1 is to allow families of army personnel to keep in touch with their loved ones, and 64kbps would suffice for this.
The main reason for the service on D1 is to allow families of army personnel to keep in touch
I don't see how they keep in touch by listening to the radio - surely a phone call would be more appropriate? In any case, it sounds like quite a niche market to me that could be better served by internet streaming.
Roberts also now have a solar set and another which has 150 hours of battery life!
So they have at last got their act together on power usage then. the DAB radio I had was awful on power and would go through a set of batteries pretty quick. Lasted ages in FM mode.
But these charge packs are expensive and Pure radios are expensive.
You can get a pretty decent FM radio for a lot less.
Ok so FM radios have not got all the stations that DAB have, but if you just want to listen to Local or BBC station then FM is a better choice, certainly for Local anyway,
So at least you get the BBC mux, the BBC are rolling out DAB but the only new site D1 has installed for a while is Wrotham!
Seems the commercial stations are sorting out funding so might start rolling out new D1 and local DAB transmitters soon! http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec/02/digital-radio-dab-funding
Should have happened by now?, Anyone with any news on this?
How long have we been hearing that we would get better coverage? It been over 3 years since I had my DAB radio and we was told then that we would have better coverage and still coverage is naff around here.
What is the point in paying the extra for a DAB radio only to be able to get the BBc stations?
Comments
Fantastic, just a shame the signal is so bad that most of Britain can't get all the channels that we are suppose to get. when I had a DAB radio a few years back, the signal was awful, I could not get half of the stations I suppose to have got.
I borrowed a DAB radio a few weeks back, still no better, so so much for Digital one improving reception, the BBC muxes are almost as bad.
I like Jazz and would listen to a radio station that had Jazz, but I am not buying a DAb radio to do so. Stick to Classic FM, at least the FM in the name means what it says, JazzFm should be done under the trades description act
The best selling set the Pure One now has reduced consumption on DAB and using rechargeables!
http://www.pure.com/products/accessory.asp?Product=VL-60923 Roberts also now have a solar set and another which has 150 hours of battery life! So at least you get the BBC mux, the BBC are rolling out DAB but the only new site D1 has installed for a while is Wrotham!
Seems the commercial stations are sorting out funding so might start rolling out new D1 and local DAB transmitters soon!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec/02/digital-radio-dab-funding Should have happened by now?, Anyone with any news on this?
Lack of stereo is very noticeable in the car.
The other thing is that iPod and iPhone culture (other devices are available) means that listening on earphones is even more prevalent now than it was in the days of the Walkman, and mono sounds quite odd on earphones. It is possible to listen to the radio on a 3G phone but not in many areas and not if you have to pay for data. So stereo is still important for radio listening outside the home.
Isn't there a stat somewhere that says that if *just* Chris Moyles' total audience started listening online, then the whole internet would grind to a halt... or.... there just isn't the available bandwidth for this to be possible.
i.e. internet radio simply cannot replace broadcast radio.
It really does strike me as odd that so many people think it would be logical to replace one transmission, which can be accessed by as many people as want to receive it, with individual 'signals' sent to each listener. How can that ever make sense?
Do any older sets have the option of a firmware upgrade to improve the sound quality of Absolute?
I'm in the market for a new DAB soon and will take this into consideration.
Sadly, too late for my factory fitted in car DAB though.
from reviews looks like the evoke 2 is a good portable/table set with good audio, but you need to find shops which allow you to listen to several sets before buying.
It is maybe worth getting a set with wifi internet radio for listen again, latest "HD sound" streams and larger choice of stations?
Sort if agree with you there, my in car dab set-up uses the jvc dab add on kit which has been around for a few years now, we recently had a Ford Mondeo on hire for a few weeks which had a factory fitted Sony DAB radio in it, 112k stereo stations did sound better in that and also ab90's at 64k but I'm nit sure if this was just a result of the radio sound set up which squeezes the top & bottom sound range maybe by design to create a more level overall sound, problems with this is stations like xfm, signal 1, Heat ( on Stoke & Stafford Mux) Kiss & Magic when it was still on regionals all sounded worse then in my own car at 128k stereo.. I still think this should be the minimum allowed for a music station.. As for just 16k difference it gives a much better overall sound across all types if equipment...
P.s ... Kerrang! Still sounded s**t at 64k!!
Don't a radio gas been invented to polish that particular turd..
Dead right. I put Abs80s on today in the car and turned it straight over to another station as it was clear it was in crappy mono.
If a music station is in mono I will not bother listening to it. Especially in the car.
Stream it to 16k mono, problem solved. It not like any more is needed as so little music is played
Will I be able to receive them on the bus every morning on a device which cost less that £20?
If so then I'm all for it!!!
Not yet
There are a few quiet spots but on the whole it's not too bad.
http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/37946/when-is-4g-coming-to-uk
With new 4G LTE handsets in 2013 the mobile networks will be able to cope better with high volumes of radio and TV streaming than they currently do with 3G, but might be initially high cost premium contracts only so DAB will have a purpose, then prices will fall.
Ondas is also hoping to launch a new satellite radio system in 2012 but initial costs may be high!
You're joking aren't you?
There are plenty of streams out there that are much better sounding than DAB, including the BBC ones. For example, I'm listening to Swiss station Radio Stadtfilter right now which has a 256k AAC stream. It sounds excellent. This is better than the vast majority out there but there are plenty of stations out there streaming at 192k MP3 or better. And most BBC nationals stream at 128k AAC (equivalent to 256k MP2) apart from Radio 3 which is 192k AAC or 320k AAC for the 'HD' stream.
Even the thousands of 128k MP3 streams should in theory sound better than most DAB stations, all else being equal, as most broadcast at 128k MP2.
Not sure what "Noise" has, but a decent DAB set (say the Evoke on a decent DAB signal) can sound better than most speakers supplied with PCs and laptops listening to the internet.
But say for a "table" type internet set with a 3" speaker not many would notice the difference between FM, DAB or a HD sound internet stream, also the audio processing used and type of music played can make a difference.
Most of the time in listening in cars, kitchens or bedrooms to radio tends to be mostly a background activity and people tend to be happy with the audio quality of DAB!
It's only when decent Hi Fi or headphones are used say in a living room when listening as a main activity that audio differences between the platforms is more noticeable and the new internet unprocessed HD streams come into their own!
I'm listening on the Squeezebox Touch which is connected to the hi-fi system, not the computer. So yes the differences are definitely noticeable.
I don't have a DAB radio anymore but I remember what it sounded like and the best internet streams are definitely better than Radio 3's 192k MP2 DAB output, which is the best you can get out of that platform.
Is it possible to use one set of transmitter gear to broadcast a 2 channel wide multiplex which appears as two multiplexes to the receivers? e.g. Digital 1 on 11D and Digital 2 on 11C from the same transmitter? Is so that might be a very low cost way of rolling out a second network..
I believe this sort of thing is used on DVB-C networks.
I remember just before Channel 4's board axed their project it was suggested that they use Digital 1's transmitter sites to keep the costs down. The proposal was for 174 transmitters to cover about 88% of the population as I recall.
Digital 2 would have to use Block 11A - that's the only one that is cleared for national use (RRC 06), and for the moment there would be severe restrictions for NI, West Wales & the south coast of England (until the end of 2012).
I think the answer is that Arqiva would only apply to Ofcom if they thought there were enough stations to fill a second mux. I think that's far from the case at the moment- the future of BFBS is in doubt, Classic FM will probably drop the bitrate to 128k at some point and one or both of the religious stations may disappear by the end of the year.
The BFBS SSVC contract lasts up to 2013, so unlikely BFBS will give up D1 before then? (unless you know something different) Even after 2013 if SSVC keeps the contract or another company takes over they may still stay on DAB!
UCB and Premier raise enough money from supporters and ads each year to pay staying on DAB.
Hopefully Amazing which is helping musicians will stay!
I'll believe it when I see (or hear) it - this was originally going to be the problem solved by 3G networks and handsets, only the handset technology took ages to catch up and deliver the dream whilst having enough battery life to get through a day.
The other thing the operators Will need to upgrade is the network of internet connections feeding the base stations because unless they invest heavily here too there won't actually be much more Internet bandwidth to around.
My guess - we're probably 5 years away if not more from having LTE 4g networks with decent coverage and enough bandwidth to go around.
Sorry, what I meant to say was that BFBS may drop the bit rate down to 64kbps. The main reason for the service on D1 is to allow families of army personnel to keep in touch with their loved ones, and 64kbps would suffice for this.
I don't see how they keep in touch by listening to the radio - surely a phone call would be more appropriate? In any case, it sounds like quite a niche market to me that could be better served by internet streaming.
So they have at last got their act together on power usage then. the DAB radio I had was awful on power and would go through a set of batteries pretty quick. Lasted ages in FM mode.
But these charge packs are expensive and Pure radios are expensive.
You can get a pretty decent FM radio for a lot less.
Ok so FM radios have not got all the stations that DAB have, but if you just want to listen to Local or BBC station then FM is a better choice, certainly for Local anyway,
How long have we been hearing that we would get better coverage? It been over 3 years since I had my DAB radio and we was told then that we would have better coverage and still coverage is naff around here.
What is the point in paying the extra for a DAB radio only to be able to get the BBc stations?