Rafa Benitez - Are Chelsea Fans Right?

2456710

Comments

  • MaxatoriaMaxatoria Posts: 17,980
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    Cantona07 wrote: »
    OK, fair enough, i think he is overrated by Liverpool fans.

    To some on RAWK he can walk on water/turn water into wine etc they do seem to think he's the messiah
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 11,829
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    Cantona07 wrote: »
    First of all I'm not a Chelsea fan and i think Benitez is over-rated so we can get that out of the way straight away, but this isn't an anti-Rafa or anti-Chelsea thread I'm looking in broader terms than that.

    There seems a lot of shock in the media about the reception that Benitez got from the Chelsea fans yesterday but I'm not really sure whats wrong.

    The Chelsea fans REALLY don't want Benitez for what seem to be fair enough reasons so why shouldn't they make their feelings clear?
    It might not be great for team spirit but if thats how they feel they should be free to voice the opinion.

    If your club appointed someone you really really objected to would you suck it up or would you react in a similar way?
    Cantona07 wrote: »
    The question i asked was if a manager came in that you totally objected to would you feel within your rights to boo that manager and thus voice your objection to the appointment?

    I am surprised that people are surprised that Chelsea fans booed Benitez hence asking the general question.

    You expressed support for them which was my point - if/when Mourinho takes over at Utd will you express the same support if sections of your own support boo him or will you maintain your support of him as a manager ?
  • Cantona07Cantona07 Posts: 56,910
    Forum Member
    Dangerman wrote: »
    You expressed support for them which was my point - if/when Mourinho takes over at Utd will you express the same support if sections of your own support boo him or will you maintain your support of him as a manager ?

    But that won't happen, Mourinho isn't hated by the majority of United fans. Im not supporting the booing of Benitez particularly more the right of fans to make their feelings clear. I objected to the Green and Gold campaign for example and i thought the fans who supported it were idiots but that didn't mean they weren't entitled to their voice. People weren't shocked at that yet they seem particularly shocked by this stuff this weekend with Rafa.
  • d'@ved'@ve Posts: 45,526
    Forum Member
    Dangerman wrote: »
    if/when Mourinho takes over at Utd will you express the same support if sections of your own support boo him or will you maintain your support of him as a manager ?
    I don't think you'd get the same kind of negative reaction to a Mourinho appointment at O/T as you would to a Rafa appointment (at Chelsea or O/T!). Most fans would be willing to at least give him his hundred days I think. Rafa would get 0 days and to answer the O/P, yes I think Chelsea fans are right about him.
  • PictoPicto Posts: 24,270
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    taurus_67 wrote: »
    Because there are still enough good players in that team to win a trophy; and if they do win something it makes him look good and gives a public reminder to other clubs he's a winner: I think he may have half an eye on the City job becoming available.

    The strangest thing is, he doesn't play the style of football RA is supposedly desperate for: so come the summer he'll be out, no matter what he wins.

    Even if he does win trophies i still think taking the Chelsea job will not do him any favours. Look at the press he's getting already, the negativity may subside a little but i think the Chelsea fans will be on his back all season. The chairman of the Chelsea Supporters Group has said they will boo Benitez all season. Does he really need all this hassle
  • SlowRapSlowRap Posts: 1,928
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Cantona07 wrote: »
    If they don't want Benitez at the club it has nothing to do with whether or not he goes on to be a success or not. They are objection to the appointment in the first place, not commenting on his managerial ability per se.

    Sometimes people don't know what's best for themselves, I think this is one of those times.
  • codebluecodeblue Posts: 14,072
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    ITV 3 is showing a documentary on Rafa's early years in Spain.

    Today at 4.55pm, you can just catch it.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 11,829
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    Cantona07 wrote: »
    But that won't happen, Mourinho isn't hated by the majority of United fans. Im not supporting the booing of Benitez particularly more the right of fans to make their feelings clear. I objected to the Green and Gold campaign for example and i thought the fans who supported it were idiots but that didn't mean they weren't entitled to their voice. People weren't shocked at that yet they seem particularly shocked by this tuff this weekend with Rafa.

    Once again, in your first post you clearly expressed support for their actions citing 'fair enough reasons' e.g.

    Maybe that wasn't your intention but it definitely was your assertion.

    I will concede that Mourinho doesn't seem to be hated by Utd fans to the same level, for me as a neutral his disrespectful behaviour is just as bad as anything Rafa said but of course that's just my opinion - personally as I've said many times I wouldn't be happy if he was to come to Anfield but I would maintain my support for the team and the club which includes the manager.

    I don't actually think there has been that much shock - sections of the media are feigning shock but they do that anyway, among fans it's not so much shock as some feeling their actions are disruptive ( as I believe many Utd fans felt the Green & Gold stuff was ), some sympathising with Rafa ( mainly but not all Liverpool fans ) while some continuing the for want of a better phrase 'Rafa hate' that permeated his time at Liverpool.
  • Tel69Tel69 Posts: 26,991
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    I knew they wouldn't like Benitez but I didn't expect them to get in his back straight away. I'm sure if he wins something they'll forgive him but personally I think it's a bad appointment. As for the fans, I expect similar from the Arsene FC fans who pollute the Wengerdome when Dear Leader leaves. They'll actually make some noise against his replacement no doubt.
  • The_don1The_don1 Posts: 17,448
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    Dont think you can compare Mourinho going to Utd and this. Ok his celebrations when winning might have been regarded as OTT but I think since its always been his plan to take over the Utd job when SAF goes he has not really attacked Utd or SAF with the same attuide as he has done with many other managers.

    As i have said before I dont think its just this issue thats caused this backlash, The current board (excluding Roman) is not highly thought of and have mishandled everything they have touched, The attempt to move grounds the handling of the JT and more recently the ref storm was in alot of fans eyes have all been cockups of the highest order. Anyone who has been in a meeting with or heard Ron Gouley talk would rather take a job as Jimmy Savilles P.R man then Chelsea's at the moment and has really got a alot of fans backs up and I think this has been the final straw 1)Rafa was disliked for his comments etc not about Chelsea but the fans and clubs legends but i think more importantly (for me anyway) 2) was not that highly rated by ourselfs.

    I would be very surprised if he was on the Man Utd or Arsenal short list to replace their managers, unlikely he would be on Cities of they sacked their manager and was not even on Liverpool's list so why should he be on Chelsea's? I dont even think Spurs would have considered him when Harry went.
  • Cantona07Cantona07 Posts: 56,910
    Forum Member
    Dangerman wrote: »
    Once again, in your first post you clearly expressed support for their actions citing 'fair enough reasons' e.g.

    Maybe that wasn't your intention but it definitely was your assertion.

    To be absolutely honest i DO think they are justified but that is just a personal opinion. I was trying to expand it out to a more general topic about the fans right to voice their opinion rather than just focus in on the actual reasons for Chelsea fans being upset about Benitez.

    If we are talking about Rafa I think a lot of Liverpool fans have taken this extremely personally for some reason.

    I didn't think RDM was the answer for Chelsea BUT he DID win the CL and the FA cup and he WAS given the job permanently so on that scale Chelsea fans had a big loyalty to him especially given that he was a top ex-player too. Its not as if they were struggling in the bottom half of the table either.

    If you are getting rid of RDM in these circumstances i think Chelsea fans have the right to think "we must be getting something special here". What they actually got was a man who had slagged them off in the past, not been in work for 2 years and not been a huge success in his last post. He also doesn't fit AT ALL with the style Chelsea are supposed to be trying to play.

    Now all that might be unfair on Benitez and maybe they should be directing their anger at the owner (but the owner has at least poured his money in so they are more well disposed to him) but never the less i think it can be understood why they just don't want the guy around and as such have the right to say so.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 949
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    I would hope our fans would give the guy the chance if he was appointed at Everton and not have banners out on the first game.

    Secondly Chelsea fans are 100% wrong the anger should be at the owner because he sacked Roberto Di Matteo and brought in Rafa. But because he has the bought the success owns the club and they have won cups you will not see any banners condemning Roman on his sacking of a manager they liked and the appointment of a manager the fans dislike. So instead of shouting banners to the owners fearing he may go its more braver to stick the abuse on the manager who has only just entered the the club a few hours previously.

    Hate to say the fans have been a bit cowardly.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 11,829
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    Cantona07 wrote: »
    To be absolutely honest i DO think they are justified but that is just a personal opinion. I was trying to expand it out to a more general topic about the fans right to voice their opinion rather than just focus in on the actual reasons for Chelsea fans being upset about Benitez.

    If we are talking about Rafa I think a lot of Liverpool fans have taken this extremely personally for some reason.

    I didn't think RDM was the answer for Chelsea BUT he DID win the CL and the FA cup and he WAS given the job permanently so on that scale Chelsea fans had a big loyalty to him especially given that he was a top ex-player too. Its not as if they were struggling in the bottom half of the table either.

    If you are getting rid of RDM in these circumstances i think Chelsea fans have the right to think "we must be getting something special here". What they actually got was a man who had slagged them off in the past, not been in work for 2 years and not been a huge success in his last post. He also doesn't fit AT ALL with the style Chelsea are supposed to be trying to play.

    Now all that might be unfair on Benitez and maybe they should be directing their anger at the owner (but the owner has at least poured his money in so they are more well disposed to him) but never the less i think it can be understood why they just don't want the guy around and as such have the right to say so.

    There are two aspects here - should Di Matteo have been sacked and should Rafa have been given the job.
    I'm not aware of any definite reasons given why Di Matteo was sacked, the assumption is because of recent results. That decision was made by Abramovich not Rafa so any anger at that should be directed at Abramovich not Rafa.
    As for whether Rafa should have been offered the job, I can only assume that there is 'someone special' coming in and Abramovich wanted him purely as interim manager and that this arrangement also suited Rafa - it wouldn't suit everyone so ( again an assumption but I think a reasonable one ) we come back to the option of keeping Di Matteo until 'someone special' is available which for whatever reason was not considered acceptable by Abramaovich. Again this is purely down to one man and his name isn't Rafa !!!!!

    I can understand Chelsea fans being loyal to their owner , he has poured in a hell of a lot of money, brought unprecendented success but the fact remains he has made this decision not Rafa and any ire should be directed towards him.
  • satellitesatellite Posts: 8,181
    Forum Member
    I think they're entitled to protest if they're that way inclined....at least they can, at the Emirates the Gestapo would have your arm up your back and you'd be booted out, never to return.

    As for Rafa, money talks as it says in the song, dirty cash!
  • RichmondBlueRichmondBlue Posts: 21,279
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Cantona07 wrote: »
    First of all I'm not a Chelsea fan and i think Benitez is over-rated so we can get that out of the way straight away, but this isn't an anti-Rafa or anti-Chelsea thread I'm looking in broader terms than that.

    There seems a lot of shock in the media about the reception that Benitez got from the Chelsea fans yesterday but I'm not really sure whats wrong.

    The Chelsea fans REALLY don't want Benitez for what seem to be fair enough reasons so why shouldn't they make their feelings clear? It might not be great for team spirit but if thats how they feel they should be free to voice the opinion.

    If your club appointed someone you really really objected to would you suck it up or would you react in a similar way?

    Well, the fans are perfectly entitled to show their disapproval.
    But whether futile gestures like booing Rafa Benitez are of any use is a different argument.

    I thought it was a strange appointment, but everyone knew that Robbie was almost certainly going at the end of the season, so why bother making a fuss about it ?
    Anyway, it could be counter productive, surely Chelsea fans don't really want to upset Abramovich ? Don't bite the hand that feeds you, that would be my advice.

    I'm a cynic anyway, I dont believe all this business about Rafa's love affair with Liverpool. Like all managers, Rafa will do what's best for Rafa..and I don't blame him. As fans, what's done is done. We need to get behind the team and let him get on with his new job.

    As for Abramovich, check out how much he has spent on Chelsea. It's a sizeable percentage of his own personal fortune. Chelsea may be a rich man's plaything, but at least our rich man spends lots of money on his hobby. :)
    If we want to continue to see some of the best players in the world coming to Chelsea, it's the price we have to pay.

    Robbie was shabbily treated in the manner of his departure, but he will have been well compensated, and hopefully move on to more success elsewhere.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 183
    Forum Member
    While Chelsea fans have a right to be miffed to be actively chanting against Benitez and holding up posters saying 'Rafa out' was a shocker - all I can say is what a complete bunch of bellends.

    If we start doing well they will shut up double quick time and look an even bigger bunch of arseholes than they already do
  • skimminstonesskimminstones Posts: 8,403
    Forum Member

    As for Abramovich, check out how much he has spent on Chelsea. It's a sizeable percentage of his own personal fortune.

    not sure about that, it probably amounts to spending no more than the accrued interest on his personal fortune, he is hardly making himself skint by spending on chelsea
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 8,575
    Forum Member
    Cantona07 wrote: »
    First of all I'm not a Chelsea fan and i think Benitez is over-rated so we can get that out of the way straight away, but this isn't an anti-Rafa or anti-Chelsea thread I'm looking in broader terms than that.

    There seems a lot of shock in the media about the reception that Benitez got from the Chelsea fans yesterday but I'm not really sure whats wrong.

    The Chelsea fans REALLY don't want Benitez for what seem to be fair enough reasons so why shouldn't they make their feelings clear? It might not be great for team spirit but if thats how they feel they should be free to voice the opinion.

    If your club appointed someone you really really objected to would you suck it up or would you react in a similar way?

    Absolutely understand it from the Chelsea fans re in all circumstances a crazy appointment. A lot of holier than thou stuff from some other fans,. eg. Liverpool fans, who would be in outrage if certain folk cane near their club, but how dare folk do that to their Rafa. Well, no doubt you can have him back again come the summer, in fact he had been free for some time :)

    I don't know why there is such shock in some of the media, apart from the fact that it often seems the in thing to be shocked, whether genuinely or not.

    Oh and I am nothing close to a Chelsea fan and also actually think Rafa is a very good manger, at the right place, at the right time.
  • SULLASULLA Posts: 149,789
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭✭
    Maxatoria wrote: »
    To some on RAWK he can walk on water/turn water into wine etc

    Which is very useful if you are a waiter
  • alancrackeralancracker Posts: 5,280
    Forum Member
    Asks myself if it is worth getting involved here?

    In answer to the question - tbh imo it is plainly obvious that they are not justifed and anyone who thinks they are ...!!! - well I can't get my head round it.

    What? - the best course of action for fans in the first game of a new manager is to boo him and hold posters up saying he should be sacked - I mean even BRFC fans who were bad enough gave Keen a few games grace before they turned on him!! How exactly is that supporting the team? - good grief!! - funny idea of support if you ask me.

    And I would feel this about any manager at any club not just cos I am a LFC fan and it is Rafa.

    I will come clean and say I agree with all he said about CFC - and maybe this lot is demonstarting that he was right!! - but that is almost not the point. It is about the fact that it is important for fans to back a club and its players whatever happens. Booing your team is never helpful - I would have thought that was obvious!!

    Now yes there is some sub plot here - he has replaced RDM who was a CFC legend - and I maybe should say that imo RDM should not have been sacked - but that is not Rafas fault. CFC fans with any sense should see that.

    Also since his appointment as far as i can see Rafa has behaved with great class and dignity and said all the right things - any CFC fans disagree? - so just maybe you should be giving him a chance - and to be fair many have done but it is still quite a sizeable number who haven't tbh which says a lot.

    Yes it is true that Rafa holds LFC dear in his heart and tbh always will I expect - is that wrong? - he has special relationships for instance with the Hillsborough families ..etc and many other suppporter groups and living where he does he knows how LFC fans think. It is hardly a secret that he would like to be LFC manager again but under the present owners that is unlikely to happen given that he was not even considered in the summer - so what should he do? - nothing or go for another job? - Imo it is obvious.

    I do think he is confident in his own ability and so would not consider lower smaller clubs but to get asked to manage CFC it was a no brainer for him to accept - they are the current European Champions.

    I also think people need to realise he is pretty good - some may rubbish what he did at Valencia and LFC but come on - Valencia in European finals as well as 2 Spanish league wins, maybe the most comprehensive foreign winners at Anfield ever (that was the day LFC took notice of him for the first time), fantastic CL record with LFC and pretty high PL finishes with LFC too - the nearest we have come to the PL title since 1990. Altho yes I admit he is somewhat quirky and is capable of strange decisions and tactics too.

    People talk about LFC and Neville being our manager - well Code and Talksport do :) - totally different obviously as GN is not a manager. But say if we gave the LFC job to someone who is a manager who the fans do not like - for example Alladyce or Pulis - we may moan on the forums but at the ground during the game you have to get behind your team and its manager whoever it was, thats obvious - and I think we would - as LFC fans are not like CFC fans - as Rafa said!! (or at least the majority aren't, there may be the odd booer but not in the numbers they had at SB yesterday - that was incredible)
  • skimminstonesskimminstones Posts: 8,403
    Forum Member
    why do liverpool fans feel so protective of the man anyway? He isnt your manager anymore. To be frank its not really any of lfc fans concern how another club feels about him.
    But say if we gave the LFC job to someone who is a manger who the fans do not like - for example Alladyce or Pulis - we may moan on the forums but at the ground during the game you have to get behind your team and its manager whoever it was, thats obvious - and I think we would - as LFC fans are not like CFC fans - as Rafa said!! (or at least the majority aren't, there may be the odd booer but not in the numnbers they had at SB yesterday - that was incredible)

    if you think chelsea fans feel the same about rafa as lfc fans might about alladyce then you are grossly misunderstanding the situation
  • alancrackeralancracker Posts: 5,280
    Forum Member
    why do liverpool fans feel so protective of the man anyway? He isnt your manager anymore. To be frank its not really any of lfc fans concern how another club feels about him.



    if you think chelsea fans feel the same about rafa as lfc fans might about alladyce then you are grossly misunderstanding the situation

    I think you grossly misunderstand how we feel about Alladyce.
  • skimminstonesskimminstones Posts: 8,403
    Forum Member
    I think you grossly misunderstand how we feel about Alladyce.

    please enlighten me
  • Cantona07Cantona07 Posts: 56,910
    Forum Member
    Asks myself if it is worth getting involved here?

    In answer to the question - tbh imo it is plainly obvious that they are not justifed and anyone who thinks they are ...!!! - well I can't get my head round it.

    What? - the best course of action for fans in the first game of a new manager is to boo him and hold posters up saying he should be sacked - I mean even BRFC fans who were bad enough gave Keen a few games grace before they turned on him!! How exactly is that supporting the team? - good grief!! - funny idea of support if you ask me.

    And I would feel this about any manager at any club not just cos I am a LFC fan and it is Rafa.

    Was one of the main reasons that you turned on Roy Hodgson not when he criticised the Liverpool fans? Thats what Rafa did to the Chelsea fans.

    Was another reason you turned on RH not the poor defensive football you played? Rafa has a reputation for defensive football.

    Regardless, its not whether they are right to boo Rafa its whether they have the right to make their feelings known.
  • alancrackeralancracker Posts: 5,280
    Forum Member
    I can see that yeah many CFC fans might have misgivings about the appointment but there are ways of expressing this and poisoning the atmosphere at his first game is not the way!!

    Go on phone ins, post in forums...etc. - behave in an adult way - but doing stuff at the ground during a game especialy before the team has even kicked a ball with him as manager is just a nonsense
Sign In or Register to comment.