The pope and the hierarchy are not the church. People belong first and foremost to their local parish community and in my experience when they call themselves "catholic" they are identifying with their parish and not paying too much attention to the pope etc. Their friends and support are down the road, not in the vatican.
Yeah I can see that actually, and I guess its fair enough. However, I don't think that even taking that into account, Catholics can really moan when other people say they may be a bit hypocritical. I mean while I do actually understand totally what you are saying, in the end, the Catholic Church as an entity, has the Pope as its head, supposedly God's voice on earth. Therefore no matter how they view themselves, ultimately they are passively condoning what the Pope preaches by being part of that organisation.
"I don't think the Pope is right but I'm rather fond of all my community activities so what the heck" is not really a valid reason in my opinion.
Believe me I am a Catholic. People who put the boot into the Church NEVER give it credit for any of the good it has done, thus showing their true ignorance and bigotry.
What good has it done that can erase the institutionalised child abuse, homophobia, slavery, opposing science, the spanish inquisition, and imprisoning unmarried women for life(to name a few)?
The other main faiths are also opposed to homosexuality.
I am pleased to see that some branches of Christianity, e.g. Quakers, Unitarians and others do not take such a hostile and discriminatory stance. One of Christ Jesus' prime commandments was "love one another" and it has never been "love one another except for...the slaves/the racially segregated/gay/etc. There should be no place for any form of discrimination or racism within Christianity and those who profess such unholy sentiments are like the hypocritical shroud wavers that Christ Jesus taught us about.
Believe me I am a Catholic. People who put the boot into the Church NEVER give it credit for any of the good it has done, thus showing their true ignorance and bigotry.
Just maybe because the bad outweighs all the good?
It is amazing how much `stuff` people who are anti Catholic `know` about the Church.
Actually - it's the other way round It's suprising how little many people who proclaim themselves devout Catholics know about their church!
You still haven't explained why you think that is a valid excuse for the institutional homophobia in the catholic church.
Surely you mean the institutionalised closet-caseness??? That's the whole problem - the clerics who ARE homosexual...and choose to practice it with minors.
I am pleased to see that some branches of Christianity, e.g. Quakers, Unitarians and others do not take such a hostile and discriminatory stance. One of Christ Jesus' prime commandments was "love one another" and it has never been "love one another except for...the slaves/the racially segregated/gay/etc. There should be no place for any form of discrimination or racism within Christianity and those who profess such unholy sentiments are like the hypocritical shroud wavers that Christ Jesus taught us about.
Jesus did not preach promiscuity, even the woman caught in adultery was told to go and sin no more.
Surely you mean the institutionalised closet-caseness??? That's the whole problem - the clerics who ARE homosexual...and choose to practice it with minors.
It's the hugely visible double standards....
The fact is all Christians are sinners. Of course if you do not have any sense of sin then you are entirely free to do what you want. Nobody is saying the Church is made up of perfect people. Far from it.
You still haven't explained why you think that is a valid excuse for the institutional homophobia in the catholic church.
You are incorrect, the Church says sex is only sanctioned within marriage. That may be a lot of tosh to a lot of people (including many Priests) but homosexuality is regarded as no worse than adultery. I personally couldn`t care less about people`s sex lives. If you are non Catholic you should not care what the Church says. It does not apply to you.
Anti Catholic sentiment might start to go away when it stops being such a bigoted, unpleasant religion, and properly holds itself account for the child abuse scandals.
Anti Catholic sentiment might start to go away when it stops being such a bigoted, unpleasant religion, and properly holds itself account for the child abuse scandals.
You are incorrect, the Church says sex is only sanctioned within marriage. That may be a lot of tosh to a lot of people (including many Priests) but homosexuality is regarded as no worse than adultery. I personally couldn`t care less about people`s sex lives. If you are non Catholic you should not care what the Church says. It does not apply to you.
It would be a well made point if the Catholic church actively supported gay marriage. But having sex outside marriage as a sin, then saying marriage between same sex couples shouldn't be allowed, leaves only celibacy as an option to be sin free to gay members of the church.
It would be a well made point if the Catholic church actively supported gay marriage. But having sex outside marriage as a sin, then saying marriage between same sex couples shouldn't be allowed, leaves only celibacy as an option to be sin free to gay members of the church.
I have watched a Youtube video where they attack Asexuals as well saying it's against God so even a sex free life isn't good enough if your not straight
I have watched a Youtube video where they attack Asexuals as well saying it's against God so even a sex free life isn't good enough if your not straight
Wow, I haven't seen that, they attack people with no sex drive as abnormal?
Surely you mean the institutionalised closet-caseness??? That's the whole problem - the clerics who ARE homosexual...and choose to practice it with minors.
It's the hugely visible double standards....
Homosexual men do not have sex with minors. Paedophiles do.
The fact is all Christians are sinners. Of course if you do not have any sense of sin then you are entirely free to do what you want. Nobody is saying the Church is made up of perfect people. Far from it.
You say that as if all wrongs are equal. Having a poor diet is a personal issue, and is something that at most should be discouraged, or offered assistance for getting away from.
Child rape is something that should have the offender removed from society for a generation.
Surely you mean the institutionalised closet-caseness??? That's the whole problem - the clerics who ARE homosexual...and choose to practice it with minors.
It's the hugely visible double standards....
Sexuality is never the problem. Violating bodily freedom is the problem.
But another big problem of the Catholic Church, is that they act as if engaging with people in consent is a problem, while they spend resources on covering up, rather than on tracking down and eliminating child rape and child rapists. They should not be seen as an authority on morality by any living person.
The Catholic church needs to get it's house in order, bring the wrongdoers to justice and sweep away the archaic dogma if it ever wants to gain respect and move forward. IMO the higher echelons of the church have betrayed their followers and set destructive boundaries on them.
I was in a store in Boston when some little sh,, tried to pick a fight with me over the potato famine because he heard my accent. But obviously all the hatred runs one way.
That's just plastic paddy mentality which a lot of Irish Americans cling to, forgetting all the injustices and persecution there own immigrant forefathers contributed to along the way iin the US.
Sadly all countries that become powerful have shady episodes in their history. To lay the blame solely at the feet of the British is ...well anti British.
Surely you mean the institutionalised closet-caseness??? That's the whole problem - the clerics who ARE homosexual...and choose to practice it with minors.
It's the hugely visible double standards....
Sexuality is never the problem. Violating bodily freedom is the problem.
That's WHY I included the statement I've emboldened...which leads me on to -
The fact is all Christians are sinners. Of course if you do not have any sense of sin then you are entirely free to do what you want. Nobody is saying the Church is made up of perfect people. Far from it.
We're not talking about "sin" in the sight of God. We're talking about really quite evil CRIMES perpetrated on minors - and in many cases THEN actively covered up by the Church.
In this country at least - that's called "conspiracy", and in extreme cases "conspiracy to pervert the course of justice".
Comments
Yeah I can see that actually, and I guess its fair enough. However, I don't think that even taking that into account, Catholics can really moan when other people say they may be a bit hypocritical. I mean while I do actually understand totally what you are saying, in the end, the Catholic Church as an entity, has the Pope as its head, supposedly God's voice on earth. Therefore no matter how they view themselves, ultimately they are passively condoning what the Pope preaches by being part of that organisation.
"I don't think the Pope is right but I'm rather fond of all my community activities so what the heck" is not really a valid reason in my opinion.
What good has it done that can erase the institutionalised child abuse, homophobia, slavery, opposing science, the spanish inquisition, and imprisoning unmarried women for life(to name a few)?
Sure, I like the art. That's nice.
I am pleased to see that some branches of Christianity, e.g. Quakers, Unitarians and others do not take such a hostile and discriminatory stance. One of Christ Jesus' prime commandments was "love one another" and it has never been "love one another except for...the slaves/the racially segregated/gay/etc. There should be no place for any form of discrimination or racism within Christianity and those who profess such unholy sentiments are like the hypocritical shroud wavers that Christ Jesus taught us about.
Just maybe because the bad outweighs all the good?
Actually - it's the other way round
You still haven't explained why you think that is a valid excuse for the institutional homophobia in the catholic church.
Surely you mean the institutionalised closet-caseness???
It's the hugely visible double standards....
Jesus did not preach promiscuity, even the woman caught in adultery was told to go and sin no more.
The fact is all Christians are sinners. Of course if you do not have any sense of sin then you are entirely free to do what you want. Nobody is saying the Church is made up of perfect people. Far from it.
You are incorrect, the Church says sex is only sanctioned within marriage. That may be a lot of tosh to a lot of people (including many Priests) but homosexuality is regarded as no worse than adultery. I personally couldn`t care less about people`s sex lives. If you are non Catholic you should not care what the Church says. It does not apply to you.
I know about my Church thank you. That`s why I believe it is the One True Church. Nothing you say will ever change that.
I think you just hit a big nail on the head.;)
filler..
It would be a well made point if the Catholic church actively supported gay marriage. But having sex outside marriage as a sin, then saying marriage between same sex couples shouldn't be allowed, leaves only celibacy as an option to be sin free to gay members of the church.
I have watched a Youtube video where they attack Asexuals as well saying it's against God so even a sex free life isn't good enough if your not straight
Wow, I haven't seen that, they attack people with no sex drive as abnormal?
How bizarre. :eek:
Of course they are abnormal. It is Gods will to **** small boys.
Homosexual men do not have sex with minors. Paedophiles do.
You say that as if all wrongs are equal. Having a poor diet is a personal issue, and is something that at most should be discouraged, or offered assistance for getting away from.
Child rape is something that should have the offender removed from society for a generation.
Sexuality is never the problem. Violating bodily freedom is the problem.
But another big problem of the Catholic Church, is that they act as if engaging with people in consent is a problem, while they spend resources on covering up, rather than on tracking down and eliminating child rape and child rapists. They should not be seen as an authority on morality by any living person.
That's just plastic paddy mentality which a lot of Irish Americans cling to, forgetting all the injustices and persecution there own immigrant forefathers contributed to along the way iin the US.
Sadly all countries that become powerful have shady episodes in their history. To lay the blame solely at the feet of the British is ...well anti British.
That's WHY I included the statement I've emboldened...which leads me on to -
We're not talking about "sin" in the sight of God. We're talking about really quite evil CRIMES perpetrated on minors - and in many cases THEN actively covered up by the Church.
In this country at least - that's called "conspiracy", and in extreme cases "conspiracy to pervert the course of justice".