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Is Doctor Who Losing People's Interest?
PaperSkin
Posts: 1,327 Forum Member
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A new series is currently being filmed, the Xmas episode is three weeks away and there is a spin-off show currently kicking about on iplayer... so why does it feel like there is no hype/excitement about the whoverse
There's not that much discussion going on, this place feels very muted compared to what it use to be like... I think the year without Who has had a bad effect on peoples engagement with the show/universe... and (personal opinion of course) the fact the last series that aired was so poor hasn't helped either...
There's so much going on elsewhere in entertainment and with Sci-fi fantasy type stuff.. With movies you've got Guardian of the Galaxy, Star Wars, Star Trek, Marvel, DC, random good films like Arrival, and rubbish like Independence day 2, Jurassic World and Transformers... and then excellent TV that is doing some really interesting stuff like Rick and Morty, and then of course you've got Game of Thrones which is huge.. Stranger Things and Westworld now capturing peoples interest and lots of other shows and all other kinds of entertaining interesting stuff out there to watch.. And then there's games too..
So is Doctor Who with its lack of activity, and poor work when it is on (moon egg anyone), losing peoples attention? are people losing their enthusiasm for the show, to me at least it seem like many are (myself included)..
There is so much to consume now, so much stuff out there to scratch an itch with, are people getting their sci-fi fix elsewhere and so DW falls off their radar... Or is it not the lack of screen time (Sherlock does good with the whole hardly ever being on thing) but the way the show is being done, in general are people just not responding to the kind of stories DW has been doing and so interest has declined...
The kind of stories/concepts they are telling is certainly an element for me, when you have a show like Rick and Morty that deals with proper interesting creative and imaginative sci-fi concepts, the kind stuff I would love DW to do and actually would kind of expect DW to be doing based on the concept of the show, but instead DW is putting out frankly intelligence insulting stuff like the moon is an egg, magic trees of no consequence and sleep eye monsters, how did that stuff even get pitched never mind made, its laughable... and this is not a I want DW for adults only and be super serious thing, before people try to use that
, as I don't, DW should be for everyone and it should have all tones (I love me some good silly elements), Rick and Morty while having some material that is obviously meant just for teens/adults has sci-fi concepts and human drama that is absolutely something that can be told to all and something DW can (and I would say should) be playing with.... yet DW seems un-inspired un-adventurous un-imaginative and less deep in comparison...
Its kind of sad to see, from DW's perspective, that a wacky cartoon on a animation channel is producing more weird creative imaginative and bold ideas that deal with sci-fi fantasy the universe and human drama mixing in with that, than one of the BBC flagship shows that's in the same vain.. while Rick and Morty uses its concept to tell broad entertaining stories with real impact and dramatic weight, DW is using its imaginative concept to tell surprisingly insular dull stories (see series 9) that don't have a load of imagination to them (oh Daleks/Timelord/Cybermen/Master/love saves the day again huh), and with some what two dimensional characters (Clara), ironic considering its the one that's not a 2D animated show..
The problem with all these other form of entertainment as well is their quality compared to DW, Shows like GOT have high production values and obviously films have huge scope, so then when you look at DW in comparison it looks cheap.. Which may be a factor in putting some people off, kids especially may feel DW is a big down grade from something like Star Wars, and not just the films but the animated shows they do or have done.. Personally I think the best way to counter-act this is to concentrate on telling quality stories that are more contained like Blink for example, actually all the Moffat episodes under RTD had the right approach as to what kind of thing DW should do... trying to do big end of the universe type stuff with big battles and all that is never going to come off as good as other TV shows or movies with the bigger budgets... rather than going for big scale DW should aim to do small scale stories that are fascinating (like midnight, or orient express) scare, make us laugh don't do big battles.
Sow what do you think, do you think I'm wrong, or do you agree with some parts, what do you think about where DW stands right now...Is Doctor Who losing peoples interest? or perhaps is just hibernating, and the interest will be there in time...
There's not that much discussion going on, this place feels very muted compared to what it use to be like... I think the year without Who has had a bad effect on peoples engagement with the show/universe... and (personal opinion of course) the fact the last series that aired was so poor hasn't helped either...
There's so much going on elsewhere in entertainment and with Sci-fi fantasy type stuff.. With movies you've got Guardian of the Galaxy, Star Wars, Star Trek, Marvel, DC, random good films like Arrival, and rubbish like Independence day 2, Jurassic World and Transformers... and then excellent TV that is doing some really interesting stuff like Rick and Morty, and then of course you've got Game of Thrones which is huge.. Stranger Things and Westworld now capturing peoples interest and lots of other shows and all other kinds of entertaining interesting stuff out there to watch.. And then there's games too..
So is Doctor Who with its lack of activity, and poor work when it is on (moon egg anyone), losing peoples attention? are people losing their enthusiasm for the show, to me at least it seem like many are (myself included)..
There is so much to consume now, so much stuff out there to scratch an itch with, are people getting their sci-fi fix elsewhere and so DW falls off their radar... Or is it not the lack of screen time (Sherlock does good with the whole hardly ever being on thing) but the way the show is being done, in general are people just not responding to the kind of stories DW has been doing and so interest has declined...
The kind of stories/concepts they are telling is certainly an element for me, when you have a show like Rick and Morty that deals with proper interesting creative and imaginative sci-fi concepts, the kind stuff I would love DW to do and actually would kind of expect DW to be doing based on the concept of the show, but instead DW is putting out frankly intelligence insulting stuff like the moon is an egg, magic trees of no consequence and sleep eye monsters, how did that stuff even get pitched never mind made, its laughable... and this is not a I want DW for adults only and be super serious thing, before people try to use that
, as I don't, DW should be for everyone and it should have all tones (I love me some good silly elements), Rick and Morty while having some material that is obviously meant just for teens/adults has sci-fi concepts and human drama that is absolutely something that can be told to all and something DW can (and I would say should) be playing with.... yet DW seems un-inspired un-adventurous un-imaginative and less deep in comparison...Its kind of sad to see, from DW's perspective, that a wacky cartoon on a animation channel is producing more weird creative imaginative and bold ideas that deal with sci-fi fantasy the universe and human drama mixing in with that, than one of the BBC flagship shows that's in the same vain.. while Rick and Morty uses its concept to tell broad entertaining stories with real impact and dramatic weight, DW is using its imaginative concept to tell surprisingly insular dull stories (see series 9) that don't have a load of imagination to them (oh Daleks/Timelord/Cybermen/Master/love saves the day again huh), and with some what two dimensional characters (Clara), ironic considering its the one that's not a 2D animated show..
The problem with all these other form of entertainment as well is their quality compared to DW, Shows like GOT have high production values and obviously films have huge scope, so then when you look at DW in comparison it looks cheap.. Which may be a factor in putting some people off, kids especially may feel DW is a big down grade from something like Star Wars, and not just the films but the animated shows they do or have done.. Personally I think the best way to counter-act this is to concentrate on telling quality stories that are more contained like Blink for example, actually all the Moffat episodes under RTD had the right approach as to what kind of thing DW should do... trying to do big end of the universe type stuff with big battles and all that is never going to come off as good as other TV shows or movies with the bigger budgets... rather than going for big scale DW should aim to do small scale stories that are fascinating (like midnight, or orient express) scare, make us laugh don't do big battles.
Sow what do you think, do you think I'm wrong, or do you agree with some parts, what do you think about where DW stands right now...Is Doctor Who losing peoples interest? or perhaps is just hibernating, and the interest will be there in time...
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I started as a fan when Tom Baker was in charge and followed it during the classic series, I was so eager for the show to come back then we got the film. I enjoyed it, wanted a new series but no they wouldnt give us that and eventually a long time I had to wait before it came back properly with Ecclestone.
Yeah I was pissed he only did one series, then we got Tennant who irritated me no end with all this crying but I enjoyed his era and then we got Matt Smith. Which from the casting I was intrigued alough I hated the thought of someone younger than Davison getting the role as I wanted a older Doctor.
Matt had some good stories, he was a great doctor but they didnt make the stories feel special then finally we get a older Doctor but the stories have been worse. I tried to enjoy his first series which half way through I was struggling to enjoy even though Clara was becoming incredibly selfish and childish.
Then his second series came and I had frankly lost interest in it time the first couple of episodes aired. I forced myself to watch the series but it seemed like a chore. Now we have the xmas special and Im really not looking forward to it, I may even just skip the xmas special, I still enjoy watching the older episodes but I cant get round the 12th Doctor.
Nothing to do with the actor hes just being given bad stories to work with. What I might do is skip next years stories and come back when Chris is in charge of the show. Ill still keep up with the news so I know whos in what stories but I wouldnt be suprised if the show is on Borrowed time and they give it a rest in the next few years.
I am not one bit excited about the Christmas Special and find it hard to care about the 2017 Series either. Maybe I'm done. That's a shame but not a tragedy. It was fun while it lasted (Eccleston, Tennant and most of Smith years).
Would it have anything to do with getting older?
When we was all kids we got all excited when there was a new doctor/companion or new series or being a adult does the novelty wear off quicker?
I know when Tennant was in charge I looked forward to every episode/series and was spending alot of time trying to find out stuff that was happening during filmings.
I love the Big Finish stories.
I wonder how Big Finish stories would adapt if they tested a animated story.
I think its part of Dr Who's issue that Tennant made such a brilliant on-screen and off screen job of the role. He seemed to live it, a kind of rock star image winning award after award, and made the show probably about as mainstream as it has ever been-being central to primetime and Christmas. And, correct me if Im wrong, he appeared to have been quite a hit with the female audience too. All in all a very hard act to follow, and I think both Matt Smith and Peter Capaldi have unfairly suffered in respect of that. Capaldi I think is excellent, and I really liked his character relationship with Jenna Coleman. The show overall though, looks and feels a bit tired, I think we could see some all time low overnight ratings this time around, and the next regeneration and actor choice is arguably the most crucial in its history.
Ive been watching since the late 70s and ive lost interest in the past year.
I think it might be to do with the fact that the early series felt like it had effort put in with all the promotional things and that it didn't take itself too seriously for a family Saturday night show, plus I felt like the Characters were more realistic then and their home drama and what each companion were going through, then suddenly a mysterious alien called The Doctor takes you everywhere and anywhere and shows you more. Theres no more character relation for me. I felt like RTD made Doctor Who his life more so than Moffat, but I did actually love moffat in Series 5 and 6.
But from what I heard Chibnall sounds more determined with his plans. But don't want to raise my expectations.
In fact the reason I'm watching now is because I'm hoping it will go back to being The Trip of a Lifetime, than a funeral. But I think next Series I'll give the first few episodes a try and if not I think thats it for Me and Doctor Who unfortunately
Biggest problem was the BBC moving the show moving it around the schedules, so no one knew what time it was on. Hopefully they can rectify this next year by having a set time ala Season 1 at 7:00pm. And the other mess of dividing the season in two parts didn't exactly help. Doctor Who was a winning formula until that point in 2011 and the show took a nose dive. Doesn't matter if the ratings are 2 million or 12 million or if you think the production team are having the best scripts ever in the show's existence - if you lose the casual viewer, the show suffers in terms of respect and is at risk of cancellation.
Peter Capaldi is doing well, character wise. As the 13th Doctor he has proved a worthy successor. But next year BBC 1 schedulers, give him a proper time!
Rather than worrying incessantly, we could actually entrust the BBC to take care of the show and to take action if they ever become worried about it's wellbeing.
Rather than get worked up about the current state of the show, we could be optimistic of the fact that a new showrunner is starting, who may iron out any existing issues.
Because at the end of the day, even if we do think it's in trouble, there is not a SINGLE THING we can do about that. The BBC have access to a MUCH broader picture of the show's health than we do, and as such if they show no signs of worry, there is NO REASON for us to worry either.
That muted feeling is purely down to the lack of the show again. If there's no new episodes to talk about, people aren't going to hang around. Some people find ways of picking up conversation in the mean time, but it's not going to be the same kinds of numbers. Being a forum as well (a dying platform as it is), it's not really a reliable reflection of the show's health - thankfully, as DS has been one of the most overly bitter places to post anything anywhere this year, and some people's determination to only ever be cynical and critical has nearly driven me away from posting here myself. I've no doubt the place will pick up when Series 10 kicks off, though I also don't doubt that gaps in broadcasting like this don't do the show or indeed any show any good. The BBC have been rather keen to keep the show on air every single year, and for good reason.
Slightly off-topic but I loved Jurassic World and then thought Star Wars 7 was absolute rubbish
There is genuine concern amongst those who work in the film industry that 2018 is going to be something of a media-implosion. Where cinema becomes just so heavily inundated with sequels/prequels/spin-offs/reboots/cinematic franchises that all of them are going to suffer in one fell swoop - because the industry has been gorging itself to death. Anything that isn't sequel-worthy has been dismissed as a failure. You can't sneeze without the kleenex you use being worthy of a cinematic universe.
You only need to look at the line-up for 2018 alone - it includes and isn't limited to a new DC universe movie, a Star Wars spin-off, a Transformers spin-off, an X-Men spin-off, a Spiderman spin-off, a Spiderman animated movie, a Mission Impossible sequel, a Pacific Rim sequel, an Indiana Jones sequel, a Jurassic World sequel, an Avengers sequel, an Ant-Man sequel, another new Marvel universe movie, a Deadpool sequel, a The Incredibles sequel, a Wreck-It Ralph sequel, a new Disney 'classic', a How To Train Your Dragon sequel, a Madagascar sequel, a Jungle Book prequel, a Maze Runner sequel, an Avatar sequel, a Fantastic Beasts sequel, a Grinch reboot, a Tomb Raider reboot, a Scooby Doo reboot. In fact there's nearly as many multi-million pound Hollywood blockbusters (I failed to list films by Spielberg and Bryan Singer that are also coming out) in 2018 as there are weeks of the year. Warner Bros. has already delayed the second Lego Movie by an entire year (a costly procedure) with their only reason being a crowded schedule. It's an inevitability that there are well-known brands that people love here that are going to crash and burn.
The need to capitalise on television viewing habits plays its part as well... Netflix and NowTV are yet more consumer costs, and people will be more selective about what they choose to watch on television when there's too many costs to consider. As such, viewing habit doesn't neatly reflect quality - certainly less than it ever has before in fact.
In the UK, people will still see Doctor Who as accessible. The same cannot be guaranteed for overseas markets where watching Doctor Who comes with a consumer price tag they'll have to consider a lot of the time, but Doctor Who - thanks to being part of the BBC - largely sits outside of this media bubble. It's extended merchandise and related media might suffer somewhat, but the show itself isn't as likely to get lost in the sea of over-saturation. In fact in the right hands, it might even be the one and only way in which some time away may do it some good - not seen as such an inevitability for broadcast, when it does show up again it'll be considered as more of an event. For now though, again, being off-air isn't going to warrant many people paying attention to it. From a fan perspective things are utterly dead right now, but as far as the mainstream is concerned there hasn't even been a show for them to give up on this year... and when it comes back next spring they'll watch it as they have done before.
The thing is that it's easy to cite the poorest episodes of the show, but using them as the typical example of the show's output is quite unfair really. The reason things like moon eggs stand out as ridiculous is because the show doesn't always do that... it stands out. There are other episodes that have delivered on or explored though-provoking ideas to various degrees of success and failure, which is true of all nine series to date. Frustratingly for those who didn't like Series 9, it was made up of largely two-part stories and so there was less chance than usual that you would come across something you'd like.
And personal opinion, but Clara was the opposite of a two-dimensional character... I think the closest the show has had to one of those is Rory, and even then he's not too guilty of it.
The issue for many comes down to the writing. It would seem to me then that rather than being cynical as a lot of people seem determined to do, it'd be to look at what is coming up. Series 10's team of writers is the largest one the show has had since 2005, it's one of the largest the show has had in any series/season ever! That's more different voices, more experimentation - led by an experienced showrunner who has stayed longer than he ideally should have done, but who may be able to bring those different voices into a coherent vision as well. And then there's Series 11 - not only a new showrunner, but a new approach to writing the show altogether with a writers room. Chris Chibnall might not evoke much enthusiasm from many (he's one of my least favourite writers for the show, incidentally) but you give him the benefit of the doubt even then - Moffat had a very different reputation as a writer to what he has as a showrunner and Chibnall could be the same. We then have a spin-off as well, which has yet another showrunner... another voice. Right now there are about to be more voices contributing to Doctor Who at once than ever before. I would see this as a time to get excited again, though understandably the drought between Series 9 and 10 makes that a bit harder. As Gandalf would say, it's the 'deep breath before the plunge'. Right now everyone is moving things into place, and Doctor Who is about to undergo several years of gradual changes into something new again.
I think you could be right. I was a child myself in the Tom Baker years and loved it but after Peter Davison left so did I. I returned for NuWho because my children loved it and their enthusiasm swept me away again. There is only one of them left now that watches. He still loves it but I sadly do not. Maybe when the grandkids come along......:D
I just can't get into the new doctor. Nothing to do with Capaldi. It's just the stories are pretty boring. maybe i'm done with it.
Personally, the only times I've really sort of lost interest in Who since becoming a fan with Season 19 was when it wasn't on air (McGann aside) in the Nineties and first half of the noughties! I know many fans kept the faith through the books, still buying DWM and then of course BF came along, but I wasn't one of them. I started buying the DVD's on an irregular basis to replace off air copies/videos of favourite stories, but that was about it. I therefore knew nothing about Who coming back until Eccleston was cast.
The C21 series is not that different to my take on the original series. Every series has contained stuff I've loved, liked, been underwhelmed by or found disappointing. I've seldom found it *boring* myself. It may be many things, but even Time and the Rani isn't boring. On Tinternet I've sometimes seen vitriolic views that I can't really relate to. I can be quite the cynical git about a lot of things, but Who has never been one of those things. Even when I was buying fanzines in the 80's and saw some incredibly strong comments about JNT, Colin, Sylvester etc I just didn't get it, really. It's just a TV programme. It's my *favourite* TV programme, mind. Who at it's weakest I still find more interesting than most TV. I haven't *hated* any of it. And have never personally got anywhere near giving up on it entirely. It's been quite a drought, but am still interested in how the Christmas Special and Series 10 with Bill goes....and what Chibbers does with the show after that.
I suppose we are at at Colin baker type comparison with the old era.
It's very close to being "rested" again
It's just been so dull and boring for the last two series. It was ridiculous also at times, but it's been ridiculous before and weathered it.
I just hope Moffat pulls himself together for his swan song, and gets the best out of Capaldi, too.
Well, I liked the last Christmas Special; I'm hoping I'll like this years, too, and it will enthuse me for the next series.
In fact in particular people have been predicting the death of superhero films for a decade now, and each year it fails to happen and the direct opposite happens, the genre continues to grow and expand.. and as of now showing no signs of slowing down, look at the success of Civil War, Deadpool Dr Strange, even BVS which was rubbish still made piles of cash.. Its a genre on itself now and nobody complains that they have made 6 horror movies this year but they do about superhero films (though I do sympathise some what with their point)
The point is though these big flashy stuff that people and most specifically kids are getting on a regular basis, may make DW seem less shiny in comparison, and with it not on it gets left behind and forgotten about..
Regarding using a bad episode as a example, yeah that was just one example, out of many choices... the whole of series 9 is a write-off (bar heaven sent) to me personally, I thought it was very weak and un-inspired, and chunks of series 8 were bad with some gems, series 7 was a lot of alright but nothing to write home about but with a bad arc and bad finale, half of series 6 that deals with the arc is also a write-off as its a bunch of convoluted stuff that makes no sense (imo) but there's some good standalone(ish) stuff that's good (the God Complex is brilliant), and series 5 again has a arc and finale that doesn't work for me, but has good eps in the series and a bunch of alright stuff.... so there was plenty off examples I could of used to show how I think DW is lacking other than just the moon egg episode...
I think its been the writing in the second era of Nu Who that's been the problem, starting with the crack arc and right up to a cheesy looking superhero... Its all in the stories and DW needs to be telling great stories as it can't win on production values compared to everything else out there that people are consuming, but if its not producing great stories or characters that people care about then what is DW's place...
The stories seem to have got more and more formulaic, monster/threat of the week with a little drip of this seasons running storyline. Is a Doctor/Companion leaving this year? Yes - Then it's knowing looks and inevitability. No - Then here comes the Daleks/Cybermen!
The production is also looking tired, after the destruction of the Fibre Glass TARDIS and Matt Smith's first episode the production quality really ramped up, now it feels lazy and cheap, that CiN trailer looked seconds away from accidentally featuring a cameraman scratching his bum! Perhaps I've been spoilt by series like Game of Thrones, WestWorld, and even The Expanse but Doctor Who was supposedly costing £1m an episode a couple of years ago and I've never felt that has come across on screen.
Nah, that's a load of nonsense.
The Colin Baker era can't be compared whatsoever to the current era. The largest and most important difference is this- back then, higher up's from the BBC were delibaratley out to hurt the show. The 18 month "rest" they gave it was the result of one man's personal grudge against the show and it's main star. The BBC love the show. It makes them a shed load of cash at home and abroad. They've tried to have it on every single year since 2005, and given it three spin offs, one of which has only recently finished, and one of which ran for five years without a break, and was on course to go longer but for tragic circumstances.
Furthermore, when Capaldi was announced, there was actually widespread positivity, the polar opposite to the welcome some Doctor's receive. Now, some of the shallow fangirls who watched the show simply because of the "sexy" Tennant or Smith may well have gone. But they constitute only a fraction of the audience. Most of the criticism of Capaldi's Doctor that I have seen is down to his character, not his age. Which isn't even surprising, considering they were aiming for a more polarizing version of the Doctor.
The show isn't hyped over in the way it once was. But it's still massively popular. One thing I think it would benefit from, something which may in fact return it to some of it's incredible past glory, would be a change in writing. This is not an insult to Moffat. He's a great writer, but his style has become old, as did his predecessor's. It's not that his style is bad, it's just that we are very used to it and need a change. If only such a change was around the corner.....oh wait....