Anyone who wonders why it is that it is almost impossible to be found guilty of rape in the UK should read this thread and consider what people are saying. Then, imagine them on a jury.
Convictions require facts, and there are precious few of those in the OP.
Anyone who wonders why it is that it is almost impossible to be found guilty of rape in the UK should read this thread and consider what people are saying. Then, imagine them on a jury.
given that the victim thinks that there was no sex i should hope that it is not possible to secure a conviction beyond a reasonable doubt.
Its not that I definately dont think sex occured otherwise wouldnt even consider reporting or going to a clinic, i'm not sure anymore. But my initial reaction at the time just after when I was dropped back to the hostel I was sure it didn't. I didnt think it was possible for me to have sex and not remember it so I assumed it didn't and like I said I always know if had sex next day. So not sure if should just trust initial reaction ,but then was in bed all day realised couldnt remember much of what happened after the club at all which isnt normal for me, apart from the few things i have mentioned.
So I remembered he was tryingto have sex with me but I just assumed he stopped as I didn't want to/wasnt participating ,but i'm not sure if that is being niave, as obviously I was stupid enough to trust some random guys itentions as being good, but if his intention was to get me drunk and he was about to do that, and underwear was off he could have taken advantage if he wanted to.
The doctor was saying its possible was still drunk/under some kindve influence when I got back as was probly 5amish and it wore off later i didnt really sleep rest of day. Its only later in the day after it felt kinda different like it might be possible I had sex but I really thought I would have been able to tell straight away if that had happened and that it would really hurt.I also definately do remember beingon the bed and moving away its one of the few things I do remember but like I said I assumed he stopped, but then I started doubting that and I knew my underwear was off because it was put on wrong.
Thats why i though should go to clinic to check for sure because I felt strongly enough about it, and I was scared that I couldnt remember so much after the club wanted to check incase drink had been spiked. The next day after that it did feel like had sex occured but i'm not sure if its possible I just thought it felt that way because I made myself so paranoid about it.
So if that makes sense I did not wake up unable to remember much or feeling guilty that I might have had sex so thought mustve been raped, I didn't think sex happened but later in the day started remembering and noticing some things to make me feel maybe it had.
Its not that I definately dont think sex occured otherwise wouldnt even consider reporting or going to a clinic, i'm not sure anymore. But my initial reaction at the time just after when I was dropped back to the hostel I was sure it didn't. I didnt think it was possible for me to have sex and not remember it so I assumed it didn't and like I said I always know if had sex next day. So not sure if should just trust initial reaction ,but then was in bed all day realised couldnt remember much of what happened after the club at all which isnt normal for me, apart from the few things i have mentioned.
So I remembered he was tryingto have sex with me but I just assumed he stopped as I didn't want to/wasnt participating ,but i'm not sure if that is being niave, as obviously I was stupid enough to trust some random guys itentions as being good, but if his intention was to get me drunk and he was about to do that, and underwear was off he could have taken advantage if he wanted to.
The doctor was saying its possible was still drunk/under some kindve influence when I got back as was probly 5amish and it wore off later i didnt really sleep rest of day. Its only later in the day after it felt kinda different like it might be possible I had sex but I really thought I would have been able to tell straight away if that had happened and that it would really hurt.I also definately do remember beingon the bed and moving away its one of the few things I do remember but like I said I assumed he stopped, but then I started doubting that and I knew my underwear was off because it was put on wrong.
Thats why i though should go to clinic to check for sure because I felt strongly enough about it, and I was scared that I couldnt remember so much after the club wanted to check incase drink had been spiked. The next day after that it did feel like had sex occured but i'm not sure if its possible I just thought it felt that way because I made myself so paranoid about it.
So if that makes sense I did not wake up unable to remember much or feeling guilty that I might have had sex so thought mustve been raped, I didn't think sex happened but later in the day started remembering and noticing some things to make me feel maybe it had.
The fact that your recollection is partial doesn't mean it didn't happen.
It is possible to have had sex & not remember anything at all.
Take the famous case of a girl at uni in Wales. She was at a party, was quite drunk & started to feel unwell, so the uni security guard walked back to her room.
The next day, to her horror she remembered him coming in her face when she was slumped in the corridor outside her room.
She reported it to police, who referred her for tests. The tests results showed that he'd actually had sex with her & it was the police who had to tell her this as she had no recollection of it at all.
Ultimately the deficiences of the court case moved the Solicitor-General to change the law to define circumstances where the victim is too drunk to be able to consent.
Also, I shouldn't tell you this, but my sister once got so drunk that she didn't remember having sex with her husband the night before. He tried to jog her memory - she couldn't remember a thing! So it happens...
I don't think there's a lot of point it trying to figure it out from your memories, they may never get more precise: the only way to know is to get tested.
you would presumably not agree that if he were drunk the responsibility lies solely with her. because it is clearly nonsense. so how can the reverse be true.
i would imagine they both had some drinks so how come she is absolved of all responsibility yet he is a rapist?
i would like an answer for that.
but more generally responsibility is not a finite quantity that has to be apportioned. so if you leave an iPad on view in your car and it is stolen you are partly responsible if it is stolen. not that this lessens the responsibility of the person that steals it.
similarly if you let a guy buy you drinks all night and chat you up in a foreign land. get yourself falling down drunk. go home with him and get into bed with him. of course you have some responsibility. not that this lessens the guys responsibility. but pretending 'therefore the responsibility lies solely with him' does nobody any favours.
By your logic if he was drunk and raped her then there would be no responsibility with him, which certainly isn't the case.
If you choose to get completely drunk in a foreign country when you are by yourself then you've been very stupid. Having a drink is fine but getting drunk and being unaware of what is going on is not. The Foreign Office warn about this, particularly on the Costa del Sol and the Balearic Islands. They also warn about stronger foreign drinks and spiked drinks. If you want a drink go up to the bar and buy it yourself and don't let it out of your sight until you have drunk it . Don't accept free drinks off nice looking men who you don't know - in doing so you cut be putting your own safety at risk just for a free drink worth a couple of pounds.
One unanswered question is why did she actually leave with the man? If he used force to get her to go with him then she was have red marks, bruises etc. the next day. It sounds like she voluntarily went with him, possibly due to being too drunk to think properly.
Did neither of you read my post, in this thread, which came after the one you both quoted and replied to?
Although on that same basis; you can hardly deny that he should take/be taking responsibility for how much he had to drink, if when he does get drunk there is the possibility that he might put it where it is not wanted.
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Or maybe that's the last thing she thinks she remembers?
She's already said, she's pretty sure sex didn't take place.
Convictions require facts, and there are precious few of those in the OP.
So I remembered he was tryingto have sex with me but I just assumed he stopped as I didn't want to/wasnt participating ,but i'm not sure if that is being niave, as obviously I was stupid enough to trust some random guys itentions as being good, but if his intention was to get me drunk and he was about to do that, and underwear was off he could have taken advantage if he wanted to.
The doctor was saying its possible was still drunk/under some kindve influence when I got back as was probly 5amish and it wore off later i didnt really sleep rest of day. Its only later in the day after it felt kinda different like it might be possible I had sex but I really thought I would have been able to tell straight away if that had happened and that it would really hurt.I also definately do remember beingon the bed and moving away its one of the few things I do remember but like I said I assumed he stopped, but then I started doubting that and I knew my underwear was off because it was put on wrong.
Thats why i though should go to clinic to check for sure because I felt strongly enough about it, and I was scared that I couldnt remember so much after the club wanted to check incase drink had been spiked. The next day after that it did feel like had sex occured but i'm not sure if its possible I just thought it felt that way because I made myself so paranoid about it.
So if that makes sense I did not wake up unable to remember much or feeling guilty that I might have had sex so thought mustve been raped, I didn't think sex happened but later in the day started remembering and noticing some things to make me feel maybe it had.
It is possible to have had sex & not remember anything at all.
Take the famous case of a girl at uni in Wales. She was at a party, was quite drunk & started to feel unwell, so the uni security guard walked back to her room.
The next day, to her horror she remembered him coming in her face when she was slumped in the corridor outside her room.
She reported it to police, who referred her for tests. The tests results showed that he'd actually had sex with her & it was the police who had to tell her this as she had no recollection of it at all.
Ultimately the deficiences of the court case moved the Solicitor-General to change the law to define circumstances where the victim is too drunk to be able to consent.
Also, I shouldn't tell you this, but my sister once got so drunk that she didn't remember having sex with her husband the night before. He tried to jog her memory - she couldn't remember a thing! So it happens...
I don't think there's a lot of point it trying to figure it out from your memories, they may never get more precise: the only way to know is to get tested.
I have to go out now, but good luck hun!
Did neither of you read my post, in this thread, which came after the one you both quoted and replied to?