If we are talking personal use I would expect an OS to be included in the price if buying an off the shelf computer of which ever flavour you preferred. I would not expect today to have to pay for updates to the OS within a reasonable lifetime of the hardware.
Yes but what is "reasonable"? Bearing in mind some people treat computers as disposable and have a new one every 2 years or so, while there are some that had in excess of 12 years usage with Windows XP and still kicked up stink when MS finally declared it EoL.
To answer part of that question, MS (and other major vendors) do publish a lifceycle policy for their applications - here is the cutdown page for Windows. Note that Apple do not publish a support roadmap and in many cases do not even formally declare when a product is EoL.
I never said they were idiots, but I have certainly seen a number that ignore all essential updates but allow all the usual bundled crap to be installed that comes with Flash and Java. They often have no comprehension that backups are required at all.
I have nothing against Avast or AVG toolbars but when a user has about 6 toolbars that are all ignored it tends to do nothing but slow things down for the user.
I'm not saying all XP users are unable to back things up.
Might be that it's just something that happens in a 15 mile radius of my home perhaps?
I seem to have unintentionally hit a nerve here so if necessary I'll retract my post and say the complete opposite. Must be the heat making people tetchy.
I never said they were idiots, but I have certainly seen a number that ignore all essential updates but allow all the usual bundled crap to be installed that comes with Flash and Java. They often have no comprehension that backups are required at all.
I have nothing against Avast or AVG toolbars but when a user has about 6 toolbars that are all ignored it tends to do nothing but slow things down for the user.
I have seen it as well to be honest, but not just from XP users, vista, and windows 7 users as well. it was not that long ago that I saw a vista based machine with so many tool bars on their IE, that you would only fit about 10 lines of text in the space left. they never used IE, so they never realised.
Nothing was ether backed up and yet they had pictures of their kids on there, you know first steps, that sort of thing.
I got them to get a USB flash drive, but until then I backed them up onto a DVD.
I'm not saying all XP users are unable to back things up.
Might be that it's just something that happens in a 15 mile radius of my home perhaps?
I seem to have unintentionally hit a nerve here so if necessary I'll retract my post and say the complete opposite. Must be the heat making people tetchy.
I think it just the way it looked when people read it, do not worry about it and you may be right, it could be the heat. It is warming up here.again.
Thankfully no work today
The majority of the people i know do back up, if they don't back up then it is because they got nothing that is important on their machine
It is not just computers either, i wonder how many people got photos on their phones or tablets that are not backed up?
I am pretty sure that they know at some point they will have to update, but they have their reasons for not doing so at the moment.
I think some people panicked too much when MS said they was not supporting XP any more. The OS is still usable and if people are careful is fine in security as well.
Well, it's not fine with security because the security is virtually gone. They basically have to walk on egg shells when online because of their OS not being able to be patched.
I keep a eye on these machines as well just to make sure.
And there's the difference. Just how capable/interested would they be if you weren't around? Having someone checking their machines and advising them on various issues can make all the difference between a neglected, unbacked-up system and one that is running smoothly.
I never said they were idiots, but I have certainly seen a number that ignore all essential updates but allow all the usual bundled crap to be installed that comes with Flash and Java. They often have no comprehension that backups are required at all.
I have nothing against Avast or AVG toolbars but when a user has about 6 toolbars that are all ignored it tends to do nothing but slow things down for the user.
I'm not saying all XP users are unable to back things up.
Might be that it's just something that happens in a 15 mile radius of my home perhaps?
I seem to have unintentionally hit a nerve here so if necessary I'll retract my post and say the complete opposite. Must be the heat making people tetchy.
Nah, you're spot on. A lot of people on these forums would be amazed at just how poor the skill level is of the average computer user. Nothing specifically to do with being an XP user of course, it's just a general disinterest (or fear) of computers.
Most of us here will have zero interest, for example, in the inner workings of our washing machine or what software it runs - and that's the same attitude that many of the PC World-buying masses have towards their laptops. In fact, the general attitude that I see towards things like security and backups is 'I don't understand any of that, therefore it probably doesn't apply to me and I should just ignore it'.
Well, it's not fine with security because the security is virtually gone. They basically have to walk on egg shells when online because of their OS not being able to be patched.
Nah, using XP is fine, people panic too much.
I know someone who still uses windows 98, but like his windows XP machine it is not on the net. But i have a 98 machine on the net, it controls my security cameras and then uploads the video to a storage device.
And there's the difference. Just how capable/interested would they be if you weren't around? Having someone checking their machines and advising them on various issues can make all the difference between a neglected, unbacked-up system and one that is running smoothly.
Most of these people are fine with computers or at least know the basics, I think they could manage without me. they will slowly change to windows 7, 8 or 9, but I can see their point in that the computers do what they want. so what is the point in paying out money?
I am thinking of updating next year, just new board, video card, CPU and i expect memory.
Nah, you're spot on. A lot of people on these forums would be amazed at just how poor the skill level is of the average computer user. Nothing specifically to do with being an XP user of course, it's just a general disinterest (or fear) of computers.
Most of us here will have zero interest, for example, in the inner workings of our washing machine or what software it runs - and that's the same attitude that many of the PC World-buying masses have towards their laptops. In fact, the general attitude that I see towards things like security and backups is 'I don't understand any of that, therefore it probably doesn't apply to me and I should just ignore it'.
You are right, most people just want to turn the computer on and it works, they are getting better mind you, I remember in the early XP days when people used to run without any security software at all
and download any old crap.
i think one of the reason why tablets are popular, not just because of their portability but because you just slide a switch and away you go, no security software to worry about, no maintenance, or that is what we are led to believe.
But some of us know different.
Try ringing Apple and ask them to send you a free copy of OSX if you haven't bought any of their hardware and don't have a license.
They won't send it to you. Instead they'll send the men in black turtlenecks around to take you away for "re-education" :D
As for XP users, I know of an internet cafe that has a load of XP machines and they are absolutely riddled with viruses and crap. They don't run any AV or if they do they use crap like Norton or McAfee which is rarely updated, they only have IE on the computers and they have every toolbar on the browser ever invented, they are slower than a slug doing the London Marathon and they are full of crap programs. I stuck my USB stick in one of their machines once so I could save some files on it and I got hit with a nasty piece of malware >:( Using the computers in that place is the IT equivalent of eating in a greasy spoon cafe with an unclean kitchen. There should be certain safety standards for internet cafe computers just as there is with restaurant and takeaway kitchens.
They won't send it to you. Instead they'll send the men in black turtlenecks around to take you away for "re-education" :D
As for XP users, I know of an internet cafe that has a load of XP machines and they are absolutely riddled with viruses and crap. They don't run any AV or if they do they use crap like Norton or McAfee which is rarely updated, they only have IE on the computers and they have every toolbar on the browser ever invented, they are slower than a slug doing the London Marathon and they are full of crap programs. I stuck my USB stick in one of their machines once so I could save some files on it and I got hit with a nasty piece of malware >:( Using the computers in that place is the IT equivalent of eating in a greasy spoon cafe with an unclean kitchen. There should be certain safety standards for internet cafe computers just as there is with restaurant and takeaway kitchens.
So what made you want to 'slum it'? And you did poke it with a stick after all.
They won't send it to you. Instead they'll send the men in black turtlenecks around to take you away for "re-education" :D
As for XP users, I know of an internet cafe that has a load of XP machines and they are absolutely riddled with viruses and crap. They don't run any AV or if they do they use crap like Norton or McAfee which is rarely updated, they only have IE on the computers and they have every toolbar on the browser ever invented, they are slower than a slug doing the London Marathon and they are full of crap programs. I stuck my USB stick in one of their machines once so I could save some files on it and I got hit with a nasty piece of malware >:( Using the computers in that place is the IT equivalent of eating in a greasy spoon cafe with an unclean kitchen. There should be certain safety standards for internet cafe computers just as there is with restaurant and takeaway kitchens.
so why don't you offer them some help and advice? I did that with a internet cafe, went in with a mate and found that their machines was full of rubbish and virus ridden, I offered to sort it out for them. I stuck ubuntu on the machines, sorted out their network and got it running really nice. the cafe closed down after 6 months mind you.
so why don't you offer them some help and advice? I did that with a internet cafe, went in with a mate and found that their machines was full of rubbish and virus ridden, I offered to sort it out for them. I stuck ubuntu on the machines, sorted out their network and got it running really nice. the cafe closed down after 6 months mind you.
I never thought of it at the time, but if I ever go there again I think I'll have a few words with them. I'd be shocked if they were still running XP with all the crap since XP is end of life now and only fit for the tech scrapheap. There is one good thing I can say - they don't like Vista! They also have a computer repair workshop and they said they had more trouble with Vista than any other Windows version
Nah, using XP is fine, people panic too much.
I know someone who still uses windows 98, but like his windows XP machine it is not on the net. But i have a 98 machine on the net, it controls my security cameras and then uploads the video to a storage device.
The people still using XP are probably the ones that never worried about patching and regular updating anyway. How many people with XP have you seen where they always grumble about the annoying 'new updates' balloon popping up which they cheerfully click 'remind me later' for the next 5 years (they do however allow McAfee/Norton/Google/Uniblue Driver Update, AVG Toolbar, Avast Toolbar, Opencandy toolbar and other assorted crap toolbar add ons to be installed of course)
They're oblivious to the chance of losing their data (they've never backed up any of their work/home documents (surely it's just automaticly backed up right?*) and they never consider the hard drive could fail either because they don't understand that a thing spinning at 7500rpm for 12 years could ever fail.
*I wasn't asking, but repeating what some users assume
I recently did a survey for my college research project which found that 25% of people don't bother to update the software on their computers. I was quite surprised that the number was so high given the publicity that this issue gets.
I recently did a survey for my college research project which found that 25% of people don't bother to update the software on their computers. I was quite surprised that the number was so high given the publicity that this issue gets.
Windows update is set to receive updates automatically unless you change it though.
I never thought of it at the time, but if I ever go there again I think I'll have a few words with them. I'd be shocked if they were still running XP with all the crap since XP is end of life now and only fit for the tech scrapheap. There is one good thing I can say - they don't like Vista! They also have a computer repair workshop and they said they had more trouble with Vista than any other Windows version
If they got a computer repair workshop, why have they got machine that are full of viruses? It would not really fill me with confidence to get my computer fixed there
As I said, linux is ideal for a internet cafe and something like Mint is pretty much like Windows in use.
The company I work for is a large supermarket chain, but we still got XP machines in the office and they are online. Sure the security is no doubt more intense than your normal home user, but it is still XP.
As i said, people panic too much which is what MS wants, so they can have more sales.
Windows update is set to receive updates automatically unless you change it though.
I never do auto updates apart from my Antivirus, I want to know what my computer is doing. The one problem with windows is that it don't tell you there are updates on the desktop.
Mint is good in that it also updates your software as well, but it does give you a choice not to.
I never do auto updates apart from my Antivirus, I want to know what my computer is doing. The one problem with windows is that it don't tell you there are updates on the desktop.
Mint is good in that it also updates your software as well, but it does give you a choice not to.
So you're not against updates per se, just Microsoft ones?
I never do auto updates apart from my Antivirus, I want to know what my computer is doing. The one problem with windows is that it don't tell you there are updates on the desktop.
Mint is good in that it also updates your software as well, but it does give you a choice not to.
Windows does give you a choice of:
Automatic (recommended) Automatically download recommended updates for my computer and install them
OR
Download updates for me, but let me choose when to install them
OR
Notify me but don't automatically download or install them
The company I work for is a large supermarket chain, but we still got XP machines in the office and they are online. Sure the security is no doubt more intense than your normal home user, but it is still XP.
As i said, people panic too much which is what MS wants, so they can have more sales.
I don't think it's panic to want an OS that can be security patched. I doubt the system where you work will be going from website to website as normal users will. The more restricted the OS's journey online is, the less chance there is of any hole being exploited.
I never do auto updates apart from my Antivirus, I want to know what my computer is doing. The one problem with windows is that it don't tell you there are updates on the desktop.
Mint is good in that it also updates your software as well, but it does give you a choice not to.
Windows 8.1 tells you that there updates available before you get to the desktop. I have my updates for the antivirus set to auto. You think Windows doesn't give you a choice of auto and manual updates? Windows does.
So you're not against updates per se, just Microsoft ones?
Did I type that? No, I don't think I did.
I typed "I never do auto updates apart from my Antivirus" that mean all updates, not just windows, software as well, all disabled, I do not mind being reminded, but not auto updates
Automatic (recommended) Automatically download recommended updates for my computer and install them
OR
Download updates for me, but let me choose when to install them
OR
Notify me but don't automatically download or install them
Windows 8.1 tells you that there updates available before you get to the desktop. I have my updates for the antivirus set to auto. You think Windows doesn't give you a choice of auto and manual updates? Windows does.
i know windows 8 gives me a choice, I have done that, but it only tells me on boot up that there are updates and then it goes to the metro UI to update it that is a waste of time since my computer goes directly to the desktop, not even a lock screen
I have to use third party software so windows can tell me there is updates on the desktop. that should not be.
I don't think it's panic to want an OS that can be security patched. I doubt the system where you work will be going from website to website as normal users will. The more restricted the OS's journey online is, the less chance there is of any hole being exploited.
Oh it is restricted, but still a fair few sites work with it. but i doubt they are linked tot he net directly, I expect they go through head office servers.
i still think some people are panicking too much. I think we got one less computer on Xp now anyway, one of the ones that I keep a eye on have gone down this morning, turns on then straight off. sounds like PSU failure, it would not surprise me the machine is getting on and I do not think the PSU is that great anyway. I expect the heat have got to it.
I will have a look this evening or tomorrow. going to a BBQ this afternoon. They have a tablet to keep them going. Hopefully it is not terminal. PSU can be replaced.
Anyway, there are still many XP machines out there and will be for a while yet.
Comments
To answer part of that question, MS (and other major vendors) do publish a lifceycle policy for their applications - here is the cutdown page for Windows. Note that Apple do not publish a support roadmap and in many cases do not even formally declare when a product is EoL.
I have nothing against Avast or AVG toolbars but when a user has about 6 toolbars that are all ignored it tends to do nothing but slow things down for the user.
I'm not saying all XP users are unable to back things up.
Might be that it's just something that happens in a 15 mile radius of my home perhaps?
I seem to have unintentionally hit a nerve here so if necessary I'll retract my post and say the complete opposite. Must be the heat making people tetchy.
Nothing was ether backed up and yet they had pictures of their kids on there, you know first steps, that sort of thing.
I got them to get a USB flash drive, but until then I backed them up onto a DVD.
I think it just the way it looked when people read it, do not worry about it and you may be right, it could be the heat. It is warming up here.again.
Thankfully no work today
The majority of the people i know do back up, if they don't back up then it is because they got nothing that is important on their machine
It is not just computers either, i wonder how many people got photos on their phones or tablets that are not backed up?
Well, it's not fine with security because the security is virtually gone. They basically have to walk on egg shells when online because of their OS not being able to be patched.
And there's the difference. Just how capable/interested would they be if you weren't around? Having someone checking their machines and advising them on various issues can make all the difference between a neglected, unbacked-up system and one that is running smoothly.
Nah, you're spot on. A lot of people on these forums would be amazed at just how poor the skill level is of the average computer user. Nothing specifically to do with being an XP user of course, it's just a general disinterest (or fear) of computers.
Most of us here will have zero interest, for example, in the inner workings of our washing machine or what software it runs - and that's the same attitude that many of the PC World-buying masses have towards their laptops. In fact, the general attitude that I see towards things like security and backups is 'I don't understand any of that, therefore it probably doesn't apply to me and I should just ignore it'.
Lol, where can i get it then to install it on my PC?
Talk about clueless.
Nah, using XP is fine, people panic too much.
I know someone who still uses windows 98, but like his windows XP machine it is not on the net. But i have a 98 machine on the net, it controls my security cameras and then uploads the video to a storage device.
I will change them one day to IP cameras,
I am thinking of updating next year, just new board, video card, CPU and i expect memory.
You are right, most people just want to turn the computer on and it works, they are getting better mind you, I remember in the early XP days when people used to run without any security software at all
and download any old crap.
i think one of the reason why tablets are popular, not just because of their portability but because you just slide a switch and away you go, no security software to worry about, no maintenance, or that is what we are led to believe.
But some of us know different.
They won't send it to you. Instead they'll send the men in black turtlenecks around to take you away for "re-education"
As for XP users, I know of an internet cafe that has a load of XP machines and they are absolutely riddled with viruses and crap. They don't run any AV or if they do they use crap like Norton or McAfee which is rarely updated, they only have IE on the computers and they have every toolbar on the browser ever invented, they are slower than a slug doing the London Marathon and they are full of crap programs. I stuck my USB stick in one of their machines once so I could save some files on it and I got hit with a nasty piece of malware >:( Using the computers in that place is the IT equivalent of eating in a greasy spoon cafe with an unclean kitchen. There should be certain safety standards for internet cafe computers just as there is with restaurant and takeaway kitchens.
So what made you want to 'slum it'? And you did poke it with a stick after all.
so why don't you offer them some help and advice? I did that with a internet cafe, went in with a mate and found that their machines was full of rubbish and virus ridden, I offered to sort it out for them. I stuck ubuntu on the machines, sorted out their network and got it running really nice. the cafe closed down after 6 months mind you.
I never thought of it at the time, but if I ever go there again I think I'll have a few words with them. I'd be shocked if they were still running XP with all the crap since XP is end of life now and only fit for the tech scrapheap. There is one good thing I can say - they don't like Vista! They also have a computer repair workshop and they said they had more trouble with Vista than any other Windows version
Offline, yes.
I recently did a survey for my college research project which found that 25% of people don't bother to update the software on their computers. I was quite surprised that the number was so high given the publicity that this issue gets.
Windows update is set to receive updates automatically unless you change it though.
If they got a computer repair workshop, why have they got machine that are full of viruses? It would not really fill me with confidence to get my computer fixed there
As I said, linux is ideal for a internet cafe and something like Mint is pretty much like Windows in use.
The company I work for is a large supermarket chain, but we still got XP machines in the office and they are online. Sure the security is no doubt more intense than your normal home user, but it is still XP.
As i said, people panic too much which is what MS wants, so they can have more sales.
I never do auto updates apart from my Antivirus, I want to know what my computer is doing. The one problem with windows is that it don't tell you there are updates on the desktop.
Mint is good in that it also updates your software as well, but it does give you a choice not to.
So you're not against updates per se, just Microsoft ones?
Windows does give you a choice of:
Automatic (recommended) Automatically download recommended updates for my computer and install them
OR
Download updates for me, but let me choose when to install them
OR
Notify me but don't automatically download or install them
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/306525
I don't think it's panic to want an OS that can be security patched. I doubt the system where you work will be going from website to website as normal users will. The more restricted the OS's journey online is, the less chance there is of any hole being exploited.
Windows 8.1 tells you that there updates available before you get to the desktop. I have my updates for the antivirus set to auto. You think Windows doesn't give you a choice of auto and manual updates? Windows does.
Did I type that? No, I don't think I did.
I typed "I never do auto updates apart from my Antivirus" that mean all updates, not just windows, software as well, all disabled, I do not mind being reminded, but not auto updates
i know windows 8 gives me a choice, I have done that, but it only tells me on boot up that there are updates and then it goes to the metro UI to update it that is a waste of time since my computer goes directly to the desktop, not even a lock screen
I have to use third party software so windows can tell me there is updates on the desktop. that should not be.
My security suite is on auto update.
Oh it is restricted, but still a fair few sites work with it. but i doubt they are linked tot he net directly, I expect they go through head office servers.
i still think some people are panicking too much. I think we got one less computer on Xp now anyway, one of the ones that I keep a eye on have gone down this morning, turns on then straight off. sounds like PSU failure, it would not surprise me the machine is getting on and I do not think the PSU is that great anyway. I expect the heat have got to it.
I will have a look this evening or tomorrow. going to a BBQ this afternoon. They have a tablet to keep them going. Hopefully it is not terminal. PSU can be replaced.
Anyway, there are still many XP machines out there and will be for a while yet.