The problem is why risk upgrading now as next week the broadcasters could decide they have an even better encoding method, but needs new kit.
We all know it can and probably will happen.
I suspect the next switchover to be slow and phased like DAB waiting for a certain % to get access to com 7/8 before setting a date.
Except that even if a new encoding method was developed tomorrow, it'd be years before it got near consumer kit and even longer before it got adopted, if at all.
Like DAB+ - still not in use in the UK even though it has been around forever. Or DVB-T2, which isn't replacing DVB-T any time soon.
And the split NIT issue was caused by boxes not being totally compliant with the DVB specification I think?
It will be an EBU decision that we will, as a responsible nation, comply with. 2020 is a possible date. As new transmitters will probably not need to be installed, I suspect that they will all be DVBT-2 compliant by then, there may be little or no phasing in of the service. Technologist may well have further information in that respect. Spending money on SD equipment seems rather short sighted.
The problem is why risk upgrading now as next week the broadcasters could decide they have an even better encoding method, but needs new kit.
We all know it can and probably will happen.
I suspect the next switchover to be slow and phased like DAB waiting for a certain % to get access to com 7/8 before setting a date.
The d book 8 has some HEVC in it. As well as freeview play. ..
But it is very unlikely that within the next say 10years that DVB T 2 will be replaced
....... And as the BBC have proved HEVC can be successfully transmitted as IP in a DVB T2 mux...I.e. No MPEG TS .
Even ATSC3.0 looks suspicially like T2 .... But is only slightly more spectrum efficient.. Whenever ever it gets standardised ...... Ideally it needs to be done before repacking occurs ....
But The FCC is not at moment planning for that..!!!!
The current UK government intent ( ed vaizey DTG summit last year )
is for DSO 2 to simultaneously do the 700 MHz clearance frequency changes
and the RF mod being DVB T2 .....
(Which within D book means more advanced codec than MPEG 2 / MPEG1L2 ... )
AND that PSB go to HD emission only ...
Which can line up,with break / tech refresh points in code and mux contracts .
So quite a lot going for it... And say 2020 plus and minus Olympics and general election
.. But there is Money (I think 500 million GBP ) in current government budget for starting the clearance.
Whether with HEVC access services will go to EBU TT not DVB ST and a object audio stream in a MPEG-H audio ( note at moment AD on DTT is object audio by using the PES Packet header to carry the metadata. )
Com 7/8 are TEMPORARY and cannot exist after 700 MHz clearance ...- and cannot have more than current planned and published and licensed coverage.
@ moox there is no single stb or TV in the world that complies with all DVB specs in all features ....
In the UK, DTG sets the D book which sets the profile which BOTH the send and receive end need to comply with for interoperability.
The Split Nit was just that some STB manufacturers decided to only allocate one page of memory for the NIT...
Which was more than ample for the then 24/7 channels and more .. BUT as codecs became more efficient and with TIMEX channels the Number if Networks ( DVB speak for channels ) was more than they thought it would be..
In some way not much different from SKys SD boxes EPG limits .. Except that sky DOES RESTRICT the number of SD channels..
. And there us no on other than OFCOM or government who can limit the number if DTT channels...
The DVB ST Spec for instance I think has 255 PIDS available and 255 Subtitle services per PID .... Do I design a STB which can decode and be controlled to display one of 2E16 subtitle streams....
I am still use my nokia 221 t occasionally to watch TVX and X BABE when I been out for a drink bought in April 2003 when you could watch setanta , redhot etc happy days.
Bumping an old thread, but does the Sony VTX-D800U support DVB-T2? I'm guessing not!
No it does not. That should not be surprising though, as the specification for DVB-T2 was not adopted until late 2009, about six years after I bought the Sony. It could hardly support what didn't exist when it was designed and manufactured.
Didn't the split NIT change put paid to a lot of early Freeview boxes?
Yes, there were two instances of mass extinction among early Freeview boxes. The split NIT was the first, then the change from 2MHz to 8MHz did for a lot more.
Yes, there were two instances of mass extinction among early Freeview boxes. The split NIT was the first, then the change from 2MHz to 8MHz did for a lot more.
You mean the move from 2k to 8k COFDM ? That killed the On Digital boxes, (which were
unaffected by the split NIT). I don't recall many Freeview boxes being non 8k compatible ?
There was a big list of boxes that couldn't cope with the COFDM change published somewhere on the net at the time. Friends has a Samsung box, bought from Costco, that certainly was affected.
My Pioneer DBR-TF100 couldn't handle 8K even though it was part of the original specification, I had to return it to Pioneer to be upgraded (at my own expense).
It recently had problems with BBC Red Button as well but those seem to have been sorted out now. The remote handset has long since bitten the dust and been replaced with a One-For-All.
My Pioneer DBR-TF100 couldn't handle 8K even though it was part of the original specification, I had to return it to Pioneer to be upgraded (at my own expense).
It recently had problems with BBC Red Button as well but those seem to have been sorted out now. The remote handset has long since bitten the dust and been replaced with a One-For-All.
I'm still using this box, working fine after the Pioneer upgrade. Very nice picture and easy to use. I bought a couple of new original remotes back in the day as I worked in the trade, but the button pads do wear out on these.
I'm still using this box, working fine after the Pioneer upgrade. Very nice picture and easy to use. I bought a couple of new original remotes back in the day as I worked in the trade, but the button pads do wear out on these.
And it's a shame because the Pioneer remote also worked extremely well with my TV, better than any third-party replacement I've tried.
My only other quibble with the Pioneer is that it insists on listing IPTV channels in the EPG which it can't possibly receive.
My parents still have a Nokia Mediamaster 221 T which they use with a CRT TV in their bedroom. Although it still works it seems to number some channels in the 800 series for some reason.
I have a Sagem ITD60- powered it up last week to check it for 8k compatibility before attempting to sell on ebay (50p- didn't sell!)- it surprisingly was compatible with all current SD DVB-T transmissions. Tried giving it away on Freecycle- no takers. Off to the tip it goes
Rumbled. But technically it is still working!
btw I did hear that some of the mediamasters could handle 8k. Mine can't.
Ok, so what modulator - exactly how did you do it?
Another thread on early dtt transmissions prompted me to search out this one and re-read it. Notice dan never did come back to answer this point. I suspected BS at the time of his original posts.
Comments
Probably would cost more than a new HD box.
You can buy a very basic HD box for about the same as the upgrade cost me but it won't have as many user friendly features as the Pioneer.
We all know it can and probably will happen.
I suspect the next switchover to be slow and phased like DAB waiting for a certain % to get access to com 7/8 before setting a date.
Except that even if a new encoding method was developed tomorrow, it'd be years before it got near consumer kit and even longer before it got adopted, if at all.
Like DAB+ - still not in use in the UK even though it has been around forever. Or DVB-T2, which isn't replacing DVB-T any time soon.
And the split NIT issue was caused by boxes not being totally compliant with the DVB specification I think?
The d book 8 has some HEVC in it. As well as freeview play. ..
But it is very unlikely that within the next say 10years that DVB T 2 will be replaced
....... And as the BBC have proved HEVC can be successfully transmitted as IP in a DVB T2 mux...I.e. No MPEG TS .
Even ATSC3.0 looks suspicially like T2 .... But is only slightly more spectrum efficient.. Whenever ever it gets standardised ...... Ideally it needs to be done before repacking occurs ....
But The FCC is not at moment planning for that..!!!!
The current UK government intent ( ed vaizey DTG summit last year )
is for DSO 2 to simultaneously do the 700 MHz clearance frequency changes
and the RF mod being DVB T2 .....
(Which within D book means more advanced codec than MPEG 2 / MPEG1L2 ... )
AND that PSB go to HD emission only ...
Which can line up,with break / tech refresh points in code and mux contracts .
So quite a lot going for it... And say 2020 plus and minus Olympics and general election
.. But there is Money (I think 500 million GBP ) in current government budget for starting the clearance.
Whether with HEVC access services will go to EBU TT not DVB ST and a object audio stream in a MPEG-H audio ( note at moment AD on DTT is object audio by using the PES Packet header to carry the metadata. )
Com 7/8 are TEMPORARY and cannot exist after 700 MHz clearance ...- and cannot have more than current planned and published and licensed coverage.
@ moox there is no single stb or TV in the world that complies with all DVB specs in all features ....
In the UK, DTG sets the D book which sets the profile which BOTH the send and receive end need to comply with for interoperability.
The Split Nit was just that some STB manufacturers decided to only allocate one page of memory for the NIT...
Which was more than ample for the then 24/7 channels and more .. BUT as codecs became more efficient and with TIMEX channels the Number if Networks ( DVB speak for channels ) was more than they thought it would be..
In some way not much different from SKys SD boxes EPG limits .. Except that sky DOES RESTRICT the number of SD channels..
. And there us no on other than OFCOM or government who can limit the number if DTT channels...
The DVB ST Spec for instance I think has 255 PIDS available and 255 Subtitle services per PID .... Do I design a STB which can decode and be controlled to display one of 2E16 subtitle streams....
Ok, so what modulator - exactly how did you do it?
Bumping an old thread, but does the Sony VTX-D800U support DVB-T2? I'm guessing not!
No it does not. That should not be surprising though, as the specification for DVB-T2 was not adopted until late 2009, about six years after I bought the Sony. It could hardly support what didn't exist when it was designed and manufactured.
It does still work on DVB-T, as I was round at my friends house yesterday and it is still being used with an old Sony CRT TV.
Yes, there were two instances of mass extinction among early Freeview boxes. The split NIT was the first, then the change from 2MHz to 8MHz did for a lot more.
You mean the move from 2k to 8k COFDM ? That killed the On Digital boxes, (which were
unaffected by the split NIT). I don't recall many Freeview boxes being non 8k compatible ?
It recently had problems with BBC Red Button as well but those seem to have been sorted out now. The remote handset has long since bitten the dust and been replaced with a One-For-All.
I'm still using this box, working fine after the Pioneer upgrade. Very nice picture and easy to use. I bought a couple of new original remotes back in the day as I worked in the trade, but the button pads do wear out on these.
Hated that freeview box it was so large,tacky & slow. Nokia should of stuck with phones.
And it's a shame because the Pioneer remote also worked extremely well with my TV, better than any third-party replacement I've tried.
My only other quibble with the Pioneer is that it insists on listing IPTV channels in the EPG which it can't possibly receive.
Another thread on early dtt transmissions prompted me to search out this one and re-read it. Notice dan never did come back to answer this point. I suspected BS at the time of his original posts.