Disagree on all counts. The dialogue was especially outstanding -- highly stylized and deliberately anachronistic., and I well know that there are always going to be people who hate that kind of thing.
I loved that aspect of Firefly's dialogue. The bits I considered clumsy were, for example, Book mentioning the warrior-poet Xiang Yu at the start of War Stories, and Niska alluding to the same poet in the next scene. Or the quote about running/walking in The Message which is repeated way too many times. (The Message is also an example of plotting that makes very little sense.)
Here's a list of things which happen in a typical Firefly episode:
Some unresolved sexual tension between Mal and Inara.
Some unresolved sexual tension between Simon and Kaylee.
Zoe and Wash mention that they are married.
Simon is tender with his sister.
Kaylee gets offended by someone else's innocent remark.
Inara does something Companion-like and then something unCompanion-like.
Book does something Shepherd-like and then something unShepherd-like.
Jayne does something nasty and then something that shows he has a heart really.
River does something weird or psychic.
Inara waltzes in at the end to save the day.
Not every episode hits every point, but most episodes hit most of them. (And there are probably more; it's a while since I last watched the series.)
There was a lot about Firefly that was great, but for me there were too many flaws to put it above BSG, even in the 14 episodes we got.
Jayne: "Testing, testing. Captain, can you hear me?"
Mal: "I'm standing right here."
Jayne: "You're coming through good and loud."
Mal: " 'Cause I'm standing right here."
Even though the shortest, Firefly is my favourite work of Whedon's. It's almost faultless.
Not just boring, but it's also very cringeworthy in places too. The main lead in season 1 is not the most charismatic of actors.
There are aliens, lots of them.
I'm a big fan, but cant lie to you, when you watch season 1 for the first time there is enough bad stuff there put you off the whole series. Ther are a handful of great episodes though, these are very important episodes, and hint at how great the series will later become. If you get do get through it, you'll be glad you did.
I mean, you know it cant be that bad if Xander Harris owns the entire B5 commemorative plate collection!
I would say stick with B5 season 1 until mid way through - it improves dramatically in the second half where most of the good and arc important stuff really kicks in.
Yes, it was. I can't watch most sci-fi shows, because so many recycle episodes, are full of meaningless techno-babble, and lack real characters of depth.
The only exceptions to this have been Firefly and Battlestar Galactica.
I admire BSG but I don't love it. For me it's the complete and utter lack of humour in a show that's supposed to show what it is to be human.
Did we watch the same show??
Starbuck and Helo's banter? Roslin teasing Billy about Dee? Roslin laughing her ass off with Adama, to the point that she giggles hysterically all over the Galactica? Kat flashing her ass and Apollo's towel falling off (Mmmm. ) during Number Three's documentary. Ellen's embarrassing behaviour after her miraculous reappearance?
Baltar being caught with his pants down humping invisible Head Six? Baltar ranting at an unreasonably unresponsive Hybrid? Baltar's behaviour around Shelley Godfrey? Baltar in general?!
ferritt3000: i cant believe that ford didnt come back for final season at some point, his character was great once he changed yet they never acted on it,crazy, yeh weir was just cast aside too to get carter in imo
bester/rebel/willowfan:
ok i can tell its gonna test my patience but it seems to be worth it according to you guys so ill give it a go,hopefully have disc 1 here by the weekend! i might start a thread to chronicle my journey lol
I did enjoy BSG enormously but for my personal tastes I found it to be just too unremittingly dark. It was always trying to be so worthy and to reflect what was going on in the real world.
I'm with a lot of other people, Firefly had all the elements that I love. Some people may call Whedon's style trite but I loved the way he created the Firefly characters and their dialogue is some of the best I've heard.
For me it's the X-Files but if that doesn't count (assuming there are rules) then i would have to go with Battlestar Galactica. Totally absorbing, with adult storylines.
Well no not really, BSG can only be considered fantasy and not sci-fi at all, which makes this whole thread rather mute. Wikipedia has a definition of what I understand Science fiction to be,
Science fiction differs from fantasy in that, within the context of the story, its imaginary elements are largely possible within scientifically established or scientifically postulated laws of nature (though some elements in a story might still be pure imaginative speculation).
you really can’t have a show be sci-fi and fantasy it is one or the other, BSG was never a sci-fi show as the God thing closed that door completely, after all its logic depended on magic
Well no not really, BSG can only be considered fantasy and not sci-fi at all, which makes this whole thread rather mute. Wikipedia has a definition of what I understand Science fiction to be,
you really can’t have a show be sci-fi and fantasy it is one or the other, BSG was never a sci-fi show as the God thing closed that door completely, after all its logic depended on magic
Your limited understanding aside, it is actually posible for a show to be both.
it was gods plan to save humanity and restart it on a different planet, it seems to me that man can shape their own destiny when it comes to creating new technologies etc,god doesnt do it for them
Well no not really, BSG can only be considered fantasy and not sci-fi at all, which makes this whole thread rather mute. Wikipedia has a definition of what I understand Science fiction to be,
you really can’t have a show be sci-fi and fantasy it is one or the other, BSG was never a sci-fi show as the God thing closed that door completely, after all its logic depended on magic
So, you're saying 2001: A Space Oddyssey isn't SF then?
Really, that is you’re come back, that’s the best you can come up with. I hate to pop your bubble but God does not exist he does not hang around in the local pub with Santa, they don’t have a yearly trip to Hogswarts all of which are fantasy and have no science behind it.
Ignoring the ill-informed jibe, you are quite wrong you can’t have a classification of sci-fi when there is no science involved.
Normally I would make the effort to engage in constructive discussion using reasonable arguments to counter your post. I have however seen how you respond to such efforts and it appears you are incapable of responding in kind; nullifying any hope for constructive discussion and rendering such efforts useless. It’s for that reason I’ll leave you to carry on spouting your nonsense, which only really serves to further embarrass yourself and entertain the rest of us.
Normally I would make the effort to engage in constructive discussion using reasonable arguments to counter your post. I have however seen how you respond to such efforts and it appears you are incapable of responding in kind; nullifying any hope for constructive discussion and rendering such efforts useless. It’s for that reason I’ll leave you to carry on spouting your nonsense, which only really serves to further embarrass yourself and entertain the rest of us.
It really is quite childish to descend into mindless rants, while you attempt to appear to be standing on a high horse giving your verdict to the surfs gathered you mealy come across as someone ill equipped to counter my arguments. The God/religious aspects to BSG and how God is an active member of the story moves BSG from what science can theorise into fantasy. This is at the core of my point and as yet has not be countered in anyway.
Comments
Here's a list of things which happen in a typical Firefly episode:
- Some unresolved sexual tension between Mal and Inara.
- Some unresolved sexual tension between Simon and Kaylee.
- Zoe and Wash mention that they are married.
- Simon is tender with his sister.
- Kaylee gets offended by someone else's innocent remark.
- Inara does something Companion-like and then something unCompanion-like.
- Book does something Shepherd-like and then something unShepherd-like.
- Jayne does something nasty and then something that shows he has a heart really.
- River does something weird or psychic.
- Inara waltzes in at the end to save the day.
Not every episode hits every point, but most episodes hit most of them. (And there are probably more; it's a while since I last watched the series.)There was a lot about Firefly that was great, but for me there were too many flaws to put it above BSG, even in the 14 episodes we got.
Even though the shortest, Firefly is my favourite work of Whedon's. It's almost faultless.
I would say stick with B5 season 1 until mid way through - it improves dramatically in the second half where most of the good and arc important stuff really kicks in.
Counter argument - Tricia Helfer and Grace Park
I admire BSG but I don't love it. For me it's the complete and utter lack of humour in a show that's supposed to show what it is to be human.
So for me it's certainly behind B5, even if some of JMS's writting did set my teeth on edge and DS9 and at its best Farscape.
The only exceptions to this have been Firefly and Battlestar Galactica.
Did we watch the same show??
Starbuck and Helo's banter? Roslin teasing Billy about Dee? Roslin laughing her ass off with Adama, to the point that she giggles hysterically all over the Galactica? Kat flashing her ass and Apollo's towel falling off (Mmmm.
Baltar being caught with his pants down humping invisible Head Six? Baltar ranting at an unreasonably unresponsive Hybrid? Baltar's behaviour around Shelley Godfrey? Baltar in general?!
Utter garbage. And that over use of the word "frack" just stopped me watching.
For me, nothing has come close to the magnificence of Babylon 5, that show has to be the best.
bester/rebel/willowfan:
ok i can tell its gonna test my patience but it seems to be worth it according to you guys so ill give it a go,hopefully have disc 1 here by the weekend! i might start a thread to chronicle my journey lol
Basestar full of naked boomers, say no more!:p
I'm with a lot of other people, Firefly had all the elements that I love. Some people may call Whedon's style trite but I loved the way he created the Firefly characters and their dialogue is some of the best I've heard.
Actually, depending on your take on the BSG resolution, BSG can also be counted as both as it had both sci-fi and supernatural elements to it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_fiction
you really can’t have a show be sci-fi and fantasy it is one or the other, BSG was never a sci-fi show as the God thing closed that door completely, after all its logic depended on magic
Your limited understanding aside, it is actually posible for a show to be both.
Ignoring the ill-informed jibe, you are quite wrong you can’t have a classification of sci-fi when there is no science involved.
it was gods plan to save humanity and restart it on a different planet, it seems to me that man can shape their own destiny when it comes to creating new technologies etc,god doesnt do it for them
so the use of science is required
So, you're saying 2001: A Space Oddyssey isn't SF then?
sorry where did that come from, where we not talking about BSG :rolleyes:
Were you not saying that BSG cannot be SF because of all the "god stuff"?
So by your definition one of the most famous SF films ever made isn't SF :eek:
How about Dune? Is that not SF either?
Normally I would make the effort to engage in constructive discussion using reasonable arguments to counter your post. I have however seen how you respond to such efforts and it appears you are incapable of responding in kind; nullifying any hope for constructive discussion and rendering such efforts useless. It’s for that reason I’ll leave you to carry on spouting your nonsense, which only really serves to further embarrass yourself and entertain the rest of us.
It really is quite childish to descend into mindless rants, while you attempt to appear to be standing on a high horse giving your verdict to the surfs gathered you mealy come across as someone ill equipped to counter my arguments. The God/religious aspects to BSG and how God is an active member of the story moves BSG from what science can theorise into fantasy. This is at the core of my point and as yet has not be countered in anyway.