Yes but that's from a personal view point though Dom. We're talking about the bigger scheme of things, and the levels of mass immigration we've experienced.
My personal life is not hurt by immigration, so I am not worried about it.
- Only 7% of immigrants claim benefits compared to 17% of UK citizens and immigrants from Eastern Europe pay 30% more in taxes than they claim in benefits.
- In the 5 yrs up to 2009 new migrants to the UK made up less than 2% of those in social housing.
- According to the 2009-2010 figures, health tourism cost just under £7 million.
So I don't believe immigrants are the huge burden on social housing, our welfare system or our health service that is made out by the tabloid press and certain politicians.
Sid, you post this quite frequently. Not disputing your stats - I'd just like to know where you got them. Got a link?
I think we should have tightened things up long ago to be honest because we are such a small island and we do seem to be getting a lot of criminals coming here. We really should only be allowing people to live here who contribute something to our country. Put a foot wrong and they're out again!
On a personal level I have lovely neighbours from the Czech Republic and they are a smashing little family.
....Employment markets are saturated by overwhelming sources of labour.
We have an ageing workforce, more people will be retiring than people leaving school. We are going to start experiencing some major skills shortages soon.
The biggest pressure the NHS can predictably have will be an increase in demand for older people, mostly baby boomers - this will all need to be resourced by both people and cash.
We have an ageing workforce, more people will be retiring than people leaving school. We are going to start experiencing some major skills shortages soon.
The biggest pressure the NHS can predictably have will be an increase in demand for older people, mostly baby boomers - this will all need to be resourced by both people and cash.
Good point. Thank you Dosanjh1. A good objective plus point and the only one so far. See what I mean. Lots of responses otherwise though.
On Good Friday, which was today, I took my car to a Romanian mechanic , they all used to be Pakistanis that worked there , but now it's Romanians and Bulgarians, and he came out and looked at my car and the parts I had brought fror it, a drive shaft and a suspension spring hub, inspected both as they were used parts, declared them to be ok and fitted them within 3 hours of me turning up and charged £50 for doing it.
2 weeks ago i took a van to the bloke in the village down the road, he wanted £180 for a small bit of welding, booked in a week in advance, had the van for 3 days, never phoned when it was ready and left it unsecured outside his garage.
Department for Work and Pensions figures suggest 17% of working-age UK nationals claim a benefit, compared with 7% of working age non-UK nationals: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21921089
In March 2011, the Tory MP Priti Patel asked the health minister Anne Milton how many residents of each (a) EU member state and (b) non-EU country were treated by the NHS in each of the last five years; and what the cost to the public purse was of such treatment in each such year. The cost for 2009-10 was £6,967,780: http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201011/cmhansrd/cm110317/text/110317w0006.htm#11031785003291
Good point. Thank you Dosanjh1. A good objective plus point and the only one do far. See what I mean. Lots of responses otherwise though.
Oh, I was just responding of one of your points, there are others.
6 of your negatives can basically be summarised as "increasing demand pressure on public services"; which is true but also leads to a reciprocal benefit of increasing demand in the private sector leading to growth and profits
I think it's important to differentiate between unskilled and skilled migrants. Skilled migration is mighty important and the more people with advanced degrees or specialised training, the better. It's a huge boon for any UK company that can get them here.
The mass, unskilled EU immigration is, in my view, good for nobody but employers and perhaps the individual migrants. It promotes a race to the bottom in wages and is undoubtedly filling jobs which could be filled by British workers by making these jobs unattractive with lower wages. The idea these jobs were unfilled before or would never be taken by Brits is just absurd. They just generally won't be taken by Brits at the level they're now able to pay and fill the job.
Oh, but EU immigrants will be paid minimum wage, I hear the immigration supporters shouting from the back! Yes, minimum wage. The idea of which was a floor on wages that was supposed to raise the level of pay among the poor and, frankly, exploited workers in this country. Cheap immigration does the opposite, it's taken the wage of many jobs down to that floor with no chance of it rising while the flood of cheap labour continues. The minimum wage should not be an aspiration.
Yes, immigrants tend to bring can-do attitudes and will work more hours, work for less and happily live and work in worse conditions. Good for them. For British society however, not so good. It's supporting the race to the bottom that employers want. I do recognise the state of British society isn't really their concern and they're just trying to get ahead. On the whole though, cheap immigration is supporting negative downward trends for worker standards.
Diversity of life, the world at your doorstep, different experiences, lives, viewpoints, stories from around the world but in your sphere of influence whether it's at work, the bus stop, in a queue. Yes you can read read about it or watch something on tv. But there's nothing like talking to someone in person about their story and their world. Sports, hobbies, food, sayings, languages, finding common ground (through things like comedy and food and sports, movies or books), the list of benefits is extensive.
There should only be two ways to immigrate into Britain
Highly skilled needed workers (after the British company has taken steps to recruit a British born worker first)
The foreign born spouse/children(only,no cousins,grannies/aunties etc) of a British citizen
Anything else is just bullshit and not in the interests of British citizens
I also think that a person should have to live in Britain for 5-8 years before they are entitled to any social benefits/welfare.
That wouldn't affect any British born person in any way and would be a good qualifying period for non British people
I think it's important to differentiate between unskilled and skilled migrants. Skilled migration is mighty important and the more people with advanced degrees or specialised training, the better. It's a huge boon for any UK company that can get them here.
The mass, unskilled EU immigration is, in my view, good for nobody but employers and perhaps the individual migrants. It promotes a race to the bottom in wages and is undoubtedly filling jobs which could be filled by British workers by making these jobs unattractive with lower wages. The idea these jobs were unfilled before or would never be taken by Brits is just absurd. They just generally won't be taken by Brits at the level they're now able to pay and fill the job.
Oh, but EU immigrants will be paid minimum wage, I hear the immigration supporters shouting from the back! Yes, minimum wage. The idea of which was a floor on wages that was supposed to raise the level of pay among the poor and, frankly, exploited workers in this country. Cheap immigration does the opposite, it's taken the wage of many jobs down to that floor with no chance of it rising while the flood of cheap labour continues. The minimum wage should not be an aspiration.
Yes, immigrants tend to bring can-do attitudes and will work more hours, work for less and happily live and work in worse conditions. Good for them. For British society however, not so good. It's supporting the race to the bottom that employers want. I do recognise the state of British society isn't really their concern and they're just trying to get ahead. On the whole though, cheap immigration is supporting negative downward trends for worker standards.
How would you feel about unskilled immigration, if the employing industry would not exist (due to international competition) unless it was resourced by very low paid workers who are willing to work these hours, in these conditions?
Diversity of life, the world at your doorstep, different experiences, lives, viewpoints, stories from around the world but in your sphere of influence whether it's at work, the bus stop, in a queue. Yes you can read read about it or watch something on tv. But there's nothing like talking to someone in person about their story and their world. Sports, hobbies, food, sayings, languages, finding common ground (through things like comedy and food and sports, movies or books), the list of benefits is extensive.
Are Romanian gypsies Ricky Gervais fans too :rolleyes:
Diversity of life, the world at your doorstep, different experiences, lives, viewpoints, stories from around the world but in your sphere of influence whether it's at work, the bus stop, in a queue. Yes you can read read about it or watch something on tv. But there's nothing like talking to someone in person about their story and their world. Sports, hobbies, food, sayings, languages, finding common ground (through things like comedy and food and sports, movies or books), the list of benefits is extensive.
Thank you 2+2=5. That's another good one. All of those could be covered in one by the old chestnut of 'multiculturism.'
That's two good plus points so far. I'm just re-reading the various posts in case there's more.
Oh, but EU immigrants will be paid minimum wage, I hear the immigration supporters shouting from the back! Yes, minimum wage. The idea of which was a floor on wages that was supposed to raise the level of pay among the poor and, frankly, exploited workers in this country. Cheap immigration does the opposite, it's taken the wage of many jobs down to that floor with no chance of it rising while the flood of cheap labour continues. The minimum wage should not be an aspiration.
I'm in favour of replacing the minimum wage with a living wage. The Treasury would spend substantially less on tax credits (one of the biggest areas of growth in welfare) and boost tax receipts. It'd also increase the spending power of poor working families to help drive economic consumption.
How would you feel about unskilled immigration, if the employing industry would not exist (due to international competition) unless it was resourced by very low paid workers who are willing to work these hours, in these conditions?
Obviously in those conditions something has to give. They could pay higher wages but the price will go up. Maybe demand will fall and maybe we can't compete internationally. If those are the economic realities, is importing cheap labour a long-term reliable solution?
I think it depends on the industry. If it's an industry dependent on very cheap labour, do we really need it or benefit from it? If the jobs are going to East Europeans, is there a benefit for Britain in it being based here? The last few decades have shown some industries are just better being done elsewhere where they can be done cheaply.
The problem with the mass EU unskilled migration is that it's not specific to any one industry because it's not controlled. Maybe we need cheap labour to pick the apples or cockles, but did we need them to undercut British builders or joiners? Was there a shortage of British people willing to work in restaurants or shops? There was a flood of cheap labour not for any one industry but for all unskilled industries.
Are Romanian gypsies Ricky Gervais fans too :rolleyes:
Are Romanian gypsies the only immigrants you can think of?
Is Ricky Gervais the only type of comedy you can think of?
I'm talking about realising we're all human and share many common traits despite speaking different languages and different cultures. Jokes, comedy, humour is one theme that can use to find that common understanding between people from different parts of the world. Whether it's a magic trick with a disappearing coin or telling a daft joke.
Did you have any thoughts about the rest of my post?
Oh, I was just responding of one of your points, there are others.
6 of your negatives can basically be summarised as "increasing demand pressure on public services"; which is true but also leads to a reciprocal benefit of increasing demand in the private sector leading to growth and profits
Not sure about this one Dosanjh1. Doesn't one outweigh the other?
Are Romanian gypsies the only immigrants you can think of?
Is Ricky Gervais the only type of comedy you can think of?
I'm talking about realising we're all human and share many common traits despite speaking different languages and different cultures. Jokes, comedy, humour is one theme that can use to find that common understanding between people from different parts of the world. Whether it's a magic trick with a disappearing coin or telling a daft joke.
With all the immigrants Labour let in + the ones since 2010,you must have so much magic and comedy in your life.
Your sides must be splitting
Comments
My personal life is not hurt by immigration, so I am not worried about it.
Should have battened down the hatches after it was brought here 100+ years ago. (jesting.)
Sid, you post this quite frequently. Not disputing your stats - I'd just like to know where you got them. Got a link?
On a personal level I have lovely neighbours from the Czech Republic and they are a smashing little family.
There seems to be this idea that somebody 'English' should clearly be someone of anglo saxon origin only.
We have an ageing workforce, more people will be retiring than people leaving school. We are going to start experiencing some major skills shortages soon.
http://www.cipd.co.uk/binaries/5754ManagingageingworkforceWEB.pdf
The biggest pressure the NHS can predictably have will be an increase in demand for older people, mostly baby boomers - this will all need to be resourced by both people and cash.
Good point. Thank you Dosanjh1. A good objective plus point and the only one so far. See what I mean. Lots of responses otherwise though.
2 weeks ago i took a van to the bloke in the village down the road, he wanted £180 for a small bit of welding, booked in a week in advance, had the van for 3 days, never phoned when it was ready and left it unsecured outside his garage.
He wasn't an immigrant, he was one of ours..
It's only the 2nd time to be fair! But worth repeating as there seem to be a lot of distorted perceptions out there.
Research published by the Equality and Human Rights Commission in 2009 found that new migrants in the UK over the previous five years made up less than 2% of those in social housing: http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/uploaded_files/4_social_housing_allocation_and_immigrant_communities.pdf
Department for Work and Pensions figures suggest 17% of working-age UK nationals claim a benefit, compared with 7% of working age non-UK nationals: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21921089
In March 2011, the Tory MP Priti Patel asked the health minister Anne Milton how many residents of each (a) EU member state and (b) non-EU country were treated by the NHS in each of the last five years; and what the cost to the public purse was of such treatment in each such year. The cost for 2009-10 was £6,967,780: http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201011/cmhansrd/cm110317/text/110317w0006.htm#11031785003291
Oh, I was just responding of one of your points, there are others.
6 of your negatives can basically be summarised as "increasing demand pressure on public services"; which is true but also leads to a reciprocal benefit of increasing demand in the private sector leading to growth and profits
The mass, unskilled EU immigration is, in my view, good for nobody but employers and perhaps the individual migrants. It promotes a race to the bottom in wages and is undoubtedly filling jobs which could be filled by British workers by making these jobs unattractive with lower wages. The idea these jobs were unfilled before or would never be taken by Brits is just absurd. They just generally won't be taken by Brits at the level they're now able to pay and fill the job.
Oh, but EU immigrants will be paid minimum wage, I hear the immigration supporters shouting from the back! Yes, minimum wage. The idea of which was a floor on wages that was supposed to raise the level of pay among the poor and, frankly, exploited workers in this country. Cheap immigration does the opposite, it's taken the wage of many jobs down to that floor with no chance of it rising while the flood of cheap labour continues. The minimum wage should not be an aspiration.
Yes, immigrants tend to bring can-do attitudes and will work more hours, work for less and happily live and work in worse conditions. Good for them. For British society however, not so good. It's supporting the race to the bottom that employers want. I do recognise the state of British society isn't really their concern and they're just trying to get ahead. On the whole though, cheap immigration is supporting negative downward trends for worker standards.
It just creates anger, imported and in almost every case backward cultural ideas and ghettos.
Highly skilled needed workers (after the British company has taken steps to recruit a British born worker first)
The foreign born spouse/children(only,no cousins,grannies/aunties etc) of a British citizen
Anything else is just bullshit and not in the interests of British citizens
I also think that a person should have to live in Britain for 5-8 years before they are entitled to any social benefits/welfare.
That wouldn't affect any British born person in any way and would be a good qualifying period for non British people
How would you feel about unskilled immigration, if the employing industry would not exist (due to international competition) unless it was resourced by very low paid workers who are willing to work these hours, in these conditions?
Are Romanian gypsies Ricky Gervais fans too :rolleyes:
Thank you 2+2=5. That's another good one. All of those could be covered in one by the old chestnut of 'multiculturism.'
That's two good plus points so far. I'm just re-reading the various posts in case there's more.
I'm in favour of replacing the minimum wage with a living wage. The Treasury would spend substantially less on tax credits (one of the biggest areas of growth in welfare) and boost tax receipts. It'd also increase the spending power of poor working families to help drive economic consumption.
I think it depends on the industry. If it's an industry dependent on very cheap labour, do we really need it or benefit from it? If the jobs are going to East Europeans, is there a benefit for Britain in it being based here? The last few decades have shown some industries are just better being done elsewhere where they can be done cheaply.
The problem with the mass EU unskilled migration is that it's not specific to any one industry because it's not controlled. Maybe we need cheap labour to pick the apples or cockles, but did we need them to undercut British builders or joiners? Was there a shortage of British people willing to work in restaurants or shops? There was a flood of cheap labour not for any one industry but for all unskilled industries.
Are Romanian gypsies the only immigrants you can think of?
Is Ricky Gervais the only type of comedy you can think of?
I'm talking about realising we're all human and share many common traits despite speaking different languages and different cultures. Jokes, comedy, humour is one theme that can use to find that common understanding between people from different parts of the world. Whether it's a magic trick with a disappearing coin or telling a daft joke.
Did you have any thoughts about the rest of my post?
Not sure about this one Dosanjh1. Doesn't one outweigh the other?
With all the immigrants Labour let in + the ones since 2010,you must have so much magic and comedy in your life.
Your sides must be splitting