What I meant by my statement was, her character suddenly has amnesia about how terrible her son and his friend behaved on runs, and all the deaths that occurred when they went out with a group. She gets one visit from the priest who says Rick's group are all devils in sheep's clothing, or whatever the diatribe he came out with was, and she now points the finger of blame solely at Rick's group, forgetting all of her own communities obvious inadequacies.
To be fair, I don't think Deanna ever declared herself. She never said whom she believed about what happened on that trip, and her question about how they got back suggested that she realised if Glenn was as bad as claimed, he'd have killed the witness. The thing that really seemed to shake her was Rick pointing a gun at her. And, again to be fair, Rick was preparing to take over ever since he arrived. His having a gun and waving it around carried more weight than what the priest said.
I also think her group was doing better than they get credit for. Until Rick turned up, so far as I can tell they'd only had 4 deaths, plus 3 exiles (and those were years back). Rick's group has lost vastly more people. Further, most of the recent deaths wouldn't have happened had Rick's group not arrived. I'm not blaming him, but that arrival led them to take on more ambitious projects. (Also, it was one of his group that left the gate open.)
The other thing i don't understand is why Rick still felt it was necessary to kill Pete. Exile him and leave him to the zombies. Does anyone really think the Alexandrians could possibly survive the way Rick and the gang have, of course they couldn't! So there's no need to be killing anyone. Why does no one understand this?
I'm ambivalent about this. The thing is, Pete had a wife and child. If you send them with him, the wife-beating is still going to go on so you've not really achieved any justice. If you send him alone, then he's almost certainly going to come back for them. The only thing that would stop him is if he died. Which frankly is likely to happen anyway. The upshot is that with exile you are either creating a problem for later when he returns, or effectively killing him. It's messy both morally and practically.
I think I'd have confronted him, and not just told him to stop but to move into a different house from his wife and child. And not the house next door, either; get some distance between them. He gets visitation rights, but there are clear rules. If he can follow them, fine; if not, that's when you consider the more extreme sanctions. As it was, Deanne wasn't any better than the woman who ran the hospital. She needed to be firm, and make Pete understand his behaviour was not acceptable.
The downside is that this gives him the freedom to go rogue. The only other option I can think of is prison, which may not be practical.
Only those that have been there from the start. Surely all the others that Aaron has brought into the group must be bw hardened survivors because they've survived outside.
I think very few people have been brought in. Enid was described as "recent", and then they said it was 8 months ago. Aiden is very selective.
I'm ambivalent about this. The thing is, Pete had a wife and child. If you send them with him, the wife-beating is still going to go on so you've not really achieved any justice. If you send him alone, then he's almost certainly going to come back for them. The only thing that would stop him is if he died. Which frankly is likely to happen anyway. The upshot is that with exile you are either creating a problem for later when he returns, or effectively killing him. It's messy both morally and practically.
I think I'd have confronted him, and not just told him to stop but to move into a different house from his wife and child. And not the house next door, either; get some distance between them. He gets visitation rights, but there are clear rules. If he can follow them, fine; if not, that's when you consider the more extreme sanctions. As it was, Deanne wasn't any better than the woman who ran the hospital. She needed to be firm, and make Pete understand his behaviour was not acceptable.
The downside is that this gives him the freedom to go rogue. The only other option I can think of is prison, which may not be practical.
I really loved this episode. The issue with Pete, Rick and Deanna is like the issues that all of the (good) zombie genre films deal with, microcosms and models of our society. Rick's execution, a state sanctioned execution, finally brought him and his group into Deanna's society. For all their high morals and pleasantry, they need Rick to do the nasty stuff for them, the stuff they don't want to have to face.
Deanna is the politician, Rick is the army, and just like in the real world, sometimes people have to be executed covertly. illegally even, but for the good of the population. No one wants to admit it, or people may protest about it, but if it didn't happen, society wouldn't be safe, and I think that's what that scene is about.
Mind you, I think Rick's blown his chances of nobbing Jessie. Despite the abusive relationship, she just witnessed him shooting her husband in the head.
Ooh, just watched the first scene again and I thought occurred to me. The Wolves have no ammo. The guy who held up Morgan, his 45 was empty and the other guy attacked with a knife.
That's why they don't attack Alexandria, they prefer to hunt down individuals rather than carry out an assault on an armed encampment.
Has anyone managed to explain how the W walkers got so far spread?
As far as i can remember, they first appeared at Noah's village/town, which was somewhere in or near Atlanta. They are now near Washington and the Wolves are still operating here.
Noah's home (near Richmond, Virginia) was said to be 500 miles from Atlanta and a 100 miles from Washington so while the Wolves are quite widely spread it's not as much as you think.
Noah's home (near Richmorginia) was said to be 500 miles from Atlanta and a 100 miles from Washington so while the Wolves are quite widely spread it's not as much as you think.
Which is roughly London to Birmingham.
Just another plot inconsistency really.
Which is roughly London to Birmingham.
Just another plot inconsistency really.
It's not a plot inconsistency at all. There are more than just 2 of them and they clearly operate in pairs so they can cover more ground when doing their scouting.
It's not a plot inconsistency at all. There are more than just 2 of them and they clearly operate in pairs so they can cover more ground when doing their scouting.
Also, Aaron and Daryl were 50 miles from Alexandria when they encountered the Wolves trap.
Are you in the UK?
Lennie James has been on our TV screens since 1988, in such shows as Civvies, Line of Duty (series one), Cold Feet and currently the star of Critical on Sky 1. He has also been in films like Snatch and 24 Hour Party People. Not to mention all sorts of cameos and bit parts.
I agree he is a wonderful actor
No, I am from Norway. WD is the only new tv series I have watched for a long time, as I usually watch old Poirot, Miss Marple, Columbo and so on.
Never heard of any of the shows you mention, but will seek them out on netflix.:)
Rick's execution, a state sanctioned execution, finally brought him and his group into Deanna's society.
I didn't see it like that, to be honest. I didn't think Deanna was convinced by Rick's arguments. She yielded to emotion in a vulnerable moment, having just lost her son and now her husband. It wasn't civilised, it was savage.
I don't think Pete intended to kill her husband; he just got in the way. He was a bit drunk, and riled up by the manipulative Carol. So this accident did not mean no peaceful solution could be worked out. Deanna will probably regret her moment of weakness, although being a politician will move on quickly now its done.
Now they'd lost their architect and their medical guy. It looked like Deanna's husband was a civilising influence on her. This is going to hurt them.
Deanna is the politician, Rick is the army, and just like in the real world, sometimes people have to be executed covertly. illegally even, but for the good of the population. No one wants to admit it, or people may protest about it, but if it didn't happen, society wouldn't be safe, and I think that's what that scene is about.
It bothers me when people base real-world politics on what happens in fictional dramas. There's a false equivalency. There were a lot of coincidences here: that the gate happened to be left open, that no-one other than Rick noticed, that Pete turned up at the most dramatic moment, and the person he killed happened to be the leader's partner, to name a few. It looks compelling because it's fiction.
Deanna knew what she was doing up to a point. Rick's group were carefully chosen to live in Alexandria - the scouts watched them, listened to their conversations etc. I think Deanna gave Rick the job as town sheriff partly because he could do what she could not - confront Pete's violence. I think she underestimated Rick, though, and was genuinely horrified to realise his solution to the problem was execution.
Deanna found out too late that Rick was right. Violence is fine as long as it happens to other people. You can turn a blind eye to it. But when it happens to one of your own it's a different matter entirely. Earlier in this thread someone posted an interesting graphic of the timelines of all the named characters in TWD and the death toll said that 21 had been killed by walkers and 53 by humans, so over twice as many characters have been killed by the living than by the dead. Rick knows this: walkers might be dangerous but other people are twice as dangerous.
The show kinda was. When Rick wakes up, he says for a moment he thought it was still in the container at Terminus, and everything since then had been a dream. That's a reference to the fan theory that Rick is still in hospital, in the coma from being shot, and the entire show has been a dream.
Pains me to say it but I do feel I'm losing some interest in the series.
Too many characters have been killed off - which to some extent is the enjoyment of TWD, the unpredictability- but with so many it means you have no connection. It takes time to build but they've cleaned out nearly everyone from S2 onwards. Without Rick, carol, daryl, glen, Maggie, Michonne, we are left with characters that we care very little for. I struggle with Sascha and she's practically old school now compared to the rest.
I don't know what I'm wanting to happen. What's the end result? Salvation? The end of this series sets up for another 2 camp war and I don't know if I'm interested in going down that road with them again. I'm also bored of seeing them running through woods.
I'll watch again in the autumn and know I'll stick with it till the end but how much longer can it last without any real idea of where it's going.
The show kinda was. When Rick wakes up, he says for a moment he thought it was still in the container at Terminus, and everything since then had been a dream. That's a reference to the fan theory that Rick is still in hospital, in the coma from being shot, and the entire show has been a dream.
The show kinda was. When Rick wakes up, he says for a moment he thought it was still in the container at Terminus, and everything since then had been a dream. That's a reference to the fan theory that Rick is still in hospital, in the coma from being shot, and the entire show has been a dream.
Oh please. The TWD writers aren't perfect, but I can't see them pulling out the oldest
cliche in the book on their show.
The show kinda was. When Rick wakes up, he says for a moment he thought it was still in the container at Terminus, and everything since then had been a dream. That's a reference to the fan theory that Rick is still in hospital, in the coma from being shot, and the entire show has been a dream.
BIB...I'm pretty certain that the writers have already 100% confirmed that this is not the case, and has also been confirmed very early on in this thread.
BIB...I'm pretty certain that the writers have already 100% confirmed that this is not the case, and has also been confirmed very early on in this thread.
Which leaves just one option. Rick was in that coma ALONE too long. He recovered too fast, as well. What if he was infected but due to his condition and being hooked up, he survived? Maybe it being responsible for his quick psychoses and hallucinations? You gotta assume they'll do a tribe that's immune eventually, out to cleanse those that aren't immune. Unless I've misjudged how long he was out with no saline.
As for boredom. I know of at least two things you'd want to stick around for, one in that it's "unique" not done before, and the other something on a massive scale not seen before.
FTWD will address diseased/silver-eyed zombies, so clearly we'll be seeing zombie lore being expanded.
Now for things from me; repeats from the beginning recently started and well, zombie behavior?
What happened to the zombie having leftover memory patterns like with Morgan's wife and her trying to go home?
They could pick things up.
They could open doors.
They could run.
One even bloody climbs a giant chain fence!
They used to be more curious, too.
I used to critisize the show about how the zombies shoud be manky by now, but I guess they've been slowly having them go manky since they're shambles compared to early on. When was the last time we saw some "freshlings" that could move fast, climb, better senses etc.? An idea for a future arc could be where they're running recconasaince or food gathering and they run into someone's homebase who've only just turned (dozens of them, silver-eyes have infected them so they're full health non-damaged zombies), and for the first time in ages have to deal with a fresh herd of smarter, stronger and faster zombies.
Thank you for your explanation, which I am sure everyone else will get. (No snark from me)
I am particulary slow, so I dont understand why the two men calling themselves wolf would be any threat to a group. Two men are two men, insane or not.
I also dont understand the walkers as being weapon, they are in a fenced area, and if let out, they will be dangerous to anyone, wolf or not.
And how is all this work with trucks, walkers, traps and disco worth it for getting one persons supplies? There are still houses and stores and shopping centers. Or they could just shoot them and steal their supply.
Do we know that there are only 2 men? We have only seen these 2 but there have been allusions to there being a group I believe.
I think they are just a general threat as they are actaully threatening people aren't they? They may not be going to take on Alexandria in a storm but maybe bit by bit.
The trucks have food and other stuff in them supposedly so are attractive to living people like Aaron and Daryl. However as soon as they open them the trucks are full of walkers and so are in fact a trap. The walkers aren't let out of the fenced area from what we have seen but are used in traps. The Wolves may have set ups like this elsewhere.
Basically the Wolves aim is to trap and kill people as one of them explained more or less to Morgan. They are basically bad people, not just people innocently looking for supplies. They trap and kill people in a variety of ways therefore they are always going to be a threat to anyone that is alive like Rick and the Alexandrians.
Maybe you don't have to undersatnd every little thing. Not every thing has been detailed yet and quite a lot is dramatic licence ;-)
I was wondering who it was as well, thought it must have been an Alexandrian given Fr Gabriel can't have walked that far out but I couldn't make out who it was.
The zombie was chained as well wasn't it Why other than it made it easier for Gabriel to kill it :kitty:
Comments
To be fair, I don't think Deanna ever declared herself. She never said whom she believed about what happened on that trip, and her question about how they got back suggested that she realised if Glenn was as bad as claimed, he'd have killed the witness. The thing that really seemed to shake her was Rick pointing a gun at her. And, again to be fair, Rick was preparing to take over ever since he arrived. His having a gun and waving it around carried more weight than what the priest said.
I also think her group was doing better than they get credit for. Until Rick turned up, so far as I can tell they'd only had 4 deaths, plus 3 exiles (and those were years back). Rick's group has lost vastly more people. Further, most of the recent deaths wouldn't have happened had Rick's group not arrived. I'm not blaming him, but that arrival led them to take on more ambitious projects. (Also, it was one of his group that left the gate open.)
I'm ambivalent about this. The thing is, Pete had a wife and child. If you send them with him, the wife-beating is still going to go on so you've not really achieved any justice. If you send him alone, then he's almost certainly going to come back for them. The only thing that would stop him is if he died. Which frankly is likely to happen anyway. The upshot is that with exile you are either creating a problem for later when he returns, or effectively killing him. It's messy both morally and practically.
I think I'd have confronted him, and not just told him to stop but to move into a different house from his wife and child. And not the house next door, either; get some distance between them. He gets visitation rights, but there are clear rules. If he can follow them, fine; if not, that's when you consider the more extreme sanctions. As it was, Deanne wasn't any better than the woman who ran the hospital. She needed to be firm, and make Pete understand his behaviour was not acceptable.
The downside is that this gives him the freedom to go rogue. The only other option I can think of is prison, which may not be practical.
I think very few people have been brought in. Enid was described as "recent", and then they said it was 8 months ago. Aiden is very selective.
I really loved this episode. The issue with Pete, Rick and Deanna is like the issues that all of the (good) zombie genre films deal with, microcosms and models of our society. Rick's execution, a state sanctioned execution, finally brought him and his group into Deanna's society. For all their high morals and pleasantry, they need Rick to do the nasty stuff for them, the stuff they don't want to have to face.
Deanna is the politician, Rick is the army, and just like in the real world, sometimes people have to be executed covertly. illegally even, but for the good of the population. No one wants to admit it, or people may protest about it, but if it didn't happen, society wouldn't be safe, and I think that's what that scene is about.
Mind you, I think Rick's blown his chances of nobbing Jessie. Despite the abusive relationship, she just witnessed him shooting her husband in the head.
That's why they don't attack Alexandria, they prefer to hunt down individuals rather than carry out an assault on an armed encampment.
Noah's home (near Richmond, Virginia) was said to be 500 miles from Atlanta and a 100 miles from Washington so while the Wolves are quite widely spread it's not as much as you think.
Just another plot inconsistency really.
It's not a plot inconsistency at all. There are more than just 2 of them and they clearly operate in pairs so they can cover more ground when doing their scouting.
Also, Aaron and Daryl were 50 miles from Alexandria when they encountered the Wolves trap.
No, I am from Norway. WD is the only new tv series I have watched for a long time, as I usually watch old Poirot, Miss Marple, Columbo and so on.
Never heard of any of the shows you mention, but will seek them out on netflix.:)
I don't think Pete intended to kill her husband; he just got in the way. He was a bit drunk, and riled up by the manipulative Carol. So this accident did not mean no peaceful solution could be worked out. Deanna will probably regret her moment of weakness, although being a politician will move on quickly now its done.
Now they'd lost their architect and their medical guy. It looked like Deanna's husband was a civilising influence on her. This is going to hurt them.
It bothers me when people base real-world politics on what happens in fictional dramas. There's a false equivalency. There were a lot of coincidences here: that the gate happened to be left open, that no-one other than Rick noticed, that Pete turned up at the most dramatic moment, and the person he killed happened to be the leader's partner, to name a few. It looks compelling because it's fiction.
Deanna found out too late that Rick was right. Violence is fine as long as it happens to other people. You can turn a blind eye to it. But when it happens to one of your own it's a different matter entirely. Earlier in this thread someone posted an interesting graphic of the timelines of all the named characters in TWD and the death toll said that 21 had been killed by walkers and 53 by humans, so over twice as many characters have been killed by the living than by the dead. Rick knows this: walkers might be dangerous but other people are twice as dangerous.
Are you joking...?
No i just read it wrong. They were talking about when rick was in a coma at the start. Oops
Too many characters have been killed off - which to some extent is the enjoyment of TWD, the unpredictability- but with so many it means you have no connection. It takes time to build but they've cleaned out nearly everyone from S2 onwards. Without Rick, carol, daryl, glen, Maggie, Michonne, we are left with characters that we care very little for. I struggle with Sascha and she's practically old school now compared to the rest.
I don't know what I'm wanting to happen. What's the end result? Salvation? The end of this series sets up for another 2 camp war and I don't know if I'm interested in going down that road with them again. I'm also bored of seeing them running through woods.
I'll watch again in the autumn and know I'll stick with it till the end but how much longer can it last without any real idea of where it's going.
Oh please. The TWD writers aren't perfect, but I can't see them pulling out the oldest
cliche in the book on their show.
They won't - but it doesn't mean they can't have a little fun with the fans:D
BIB...I'm pretty certain that the writers have already 100% confirmed that this is not the case, and has also been confirmed very early on in this thread.
Which leaves just one option. Rick was in that coma ALONE too long. He recovered too fast, as well. What if he was infected but due to his condition and being hooked up, he survived? Maybe it being responsible for his quick psychoses and hallucinations? You gotta assume they'll do a tribe that's immune eventually, out to cleanse those that aren't immune. Unless I've misjudged how long he was out with no saline.
As for boredom. I know of at least two things you'd want to stick around for, one in that it's "unique" not done before, and the other something on a massive scale not seen before.
FTWD will address diseased/silver-eyed zombies, so clearly we'll be seeing zombie lore being expanded.
Now for things from me; repeats from the beginning recently started and well, zombie behavior?
What happened to the zombie having leftover memory patterns like with Morgan's wife and her trying to go home?
They could pick things up.
They could open doors.
They could run.
One even bloody climbs a giant chain fence!
They used to be more curious, too.
I used to critisize the show about how the zombies shoud be manky by now, but I guess they've been slowly having them go manky since they're shambles compared to early on. When was the last time we saw some "freshlings" that could move fast, climb, better senses etc.? An idea for a future arc could be where they're running recconasaince or food gathering and they run into someone's homebase who've only just turned (dozens of them, silver-eyes have infected them so they're full health non-damaged zombies), and for the first time in ages have to deal with a fresh herd of smarter, stronger and faster zombies.
I heard that he wakes up and goes for a shower and there's ole Bobby Ewing waiting for him ;-)
Do we know that there are only 2 men? We have only seen these 2 but there have been allusions to there being a group I believe.
I think they are just a general threat as they are actaully threatening people aren't they? They may not be going to take on Alexandria in a storm but maybe bit by bit.
The trucks have food and other stuff in them supposedly so are attractive to living people like Aaron and Daryl. However as soon as they open them the trucks are full of walkers and so are in fact a trap. The walkers aren't let out of the fenced area from what we have seen but are used in traps. The Wolves may have set ups like this elsewhere.
Basically the Wolves aim is to trap and kill people as one of them explained more or less to Morgan. They are basically bad people, not just people innocently looking for supplies. They trap and kill people in a variety of ways therefore they are always going to be a threat to anyone that is alive like Rick and the Alexandrians.
Maybe you don't have to undersatnd every little thing. Not every thing has been detailed yet and quite a lot is dramatic licence ;-)
The zombie was chained as well wasn't it
It was a noose made of rope around it's neck.
Most likely explanation was that someone committed suicide by hanging and then reanimated (we've seen this before).
Over time the rope frayed and broke and the Walker fell to the ground, got up and started walking with the frayed noose still round his neck.
Sounds reasonable and it certainly was handy for Gabriel :cool: