Mentions of Savile / Harris / Hall etc in old comedies

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  • jonmorrisjonmorris Posts: 21,643
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    gashead wrote: »
    Are you seriously saying that Saville's, Harris's et al crimes, as awful and horryfing as they (alledgedly, in Saville's case) are, are comparable to what Hitler did?! You know why you hate Godwin's Law? It's because people compare all sort of wild and ridiculous things to Hitler etc and the only person who doesn't think it's ridiculous is the person who's done it, so yes, you have 'proved' Godwin's Law.

    Are you serious?

    Where did I ever compare Savile or Harris to Hitler? Talk about missing the point to go on and make a rather pointless rant, that makes no sense as I purposely said I didn't want to prove the Law but was going to.

    Anyway, if you re-read what I wrote, my point was about trying to erase history. It really doesn't matter what it was, so the severity of something is totally irrelevant. Don't you understand this?

    You wouldn't try and pretend that two world wars didn't happen, or any other wars, or any other atrocities. But you can't then think that lesser crimes (although still serious in their own way) are perhaps okay. And if you did think that, who would decide what things you 'delete' and what you keep?

    I really wasn't comparing to Hitler and you know full well, or else you're extremely ignorant or merely trolling.
  • gasheadgashead Posts: 13,804
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    jonmorris wrote: »
    Are you serious?

    Where did I ever compare Savile or Harris to Hitler? Talk about missing the point to go on and make a rather pointless rant, that makes no sense as I purposely said I didn't want to prove the Law but was going to.

    Anyway, if you re-read what I wrote, my point was about trying to erase history. It really doesn't matter what it was, so the severity of something is totally irrelevant. Don't you understand this?

    You wouldn't try and pretend that two world wars didn't happen, or any other wars, or any other atrocities. But you can't then think that lesser crimes (although still serious in their own way) are perhaps okay. And if you did think that, who would decide what things you 'delete' and what you keep?

    I really wasn't comparing to Hitler and you know full well, or else you're extremely ignorant or merely trolling.
    Short memory? If you don't want people to think you're comparing <insert situation> to Hitler, it helps not to use phrases like:

    I hate discussions that prove Godwin's Law, but if there was ever a valid comparison to the mistake of cutting bad things out of history - Hitler is a pretty good one.

    Now maybe you expressed it badly, but whether you meant it or not, you're explicitly saying that the act of cutting references to Saville and Harris out of TV programmes is basically the same as denying that Hitler ever existed? How can it possibly be, unless you believe what they did is comparable? Hitler is irrelevant to this in every possible way, shape and form.
  • davelovesleedsdavelovesleeds Posts: 22,279
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    GORTONIAN wrote: »
    Several years ago uk gold as they were at the time purchased and transmitted several episodes of the BBC Show The Good Old Days a classic show which like The Wheeltappers And Shunters Social Club (shown at the same area of time on Granada Plus ) provided valuable footage of great tv and variety stars many of whom were coming to the ends of their performing and sometimes physical lives as well
    If this idea of erasing these and other public figures goes through a show like The Good Old Days won't be seen on our screen again !
    The reason ?? a REGULAR member of the audience often seen in vision sat in the balcony though not performing or even audible being STUART HALL !!
    reason to bin a show ??
    I DONT THINK SO ....do you ????

    The Good Old Days was compered by Leonard Sachs who was fined £75 in 1984 for 'importuning men for an immoral purpose', so another reason for TPTP to ban it , regrettably. I would love to see it again.
  • dodradedodrade Posts: 23,624
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    Sexual abuse of children has become the one unforgiveable sin in society, considered far worse than murder or terrorism.

    Caravaggio was a murderer, but his paintings aren't banned. Phil Spector produced songs still get airplay. Gig Young killed his wife in a murder-suicide but the BBC still regularly show his Oscar winning performance in They shoot horses don't they?

    Surely if we are to be consistent in erasing Savile's memory Stoke Mandeville Hospital should be closed, or at least those wards he raised money from.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 255
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    dodrade wrote: »
    Sexual abuse of children has become the one unforgiveable sin in society, considered far worse than murder or terrorism.

    Caravaggio was a murderer, but his paintings aren't banned. Phil Spector produced songs still get airplay. Gig Young killed his wife in a murder-suicide but the BBC still regularly show his Oscar winning performance in They shoot horses don't they?

    Surely if we are to be consistent in erasing Savile's memory Stoke Mandeville Hospital should be closed, or at least those wards he raised money from.

    Lean Britton was in power in the 80s Big JOB's in Goverment he had, then sent to the EU, made a Sir then a Lord and made loads of money, which I has a Taxpayer helped pay for, like all "hard working taxpayers"
  • jonmorrisjonmorris Posts: 21,643
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    gashead wrote: »
    Short memory? If you don't want people to think you're comparing <insert situation> to Hitler, it helps not to use phrases like:

    I hate discussions that prove Godwin's Law, but if there was ever a valid comparison to the mistake of cutting bad things out of history - Hitler is a pretty good one.

    Now maybe you expressed it badly, but whether you meant it or not, you're explicitly saying that the act of cutting references to Saville and Harris out of TV programmes is basically the same as denying that Hitler ever existed? How can it possibly be, unless you believe what they did is comparable? Hitler is irrelevant to this in every possible way, shape and form.

    You're creating an argument out of nothing. I am sure you have better things to do than trying to link the two, when the point was about erasing ANYTHING from history. Feel free to remove Hitler and replace with something else if you'll get less upset by it.

    The point still stands. I mentioned Hitler because it had already been mentioned earlier in the thread. Hence me referring to Godwin's Law, but obviously you just like an argument so I'll let you win if it makes you feel better, as I don't have the time to keep repeating myself.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,910
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    It actually really upsets me to think that Rolf is guilty of these crimes, i used to like him:(

    I never would have thought it of him, Saville i never ever liked anyway but Rolf :(
  • RedSnapperRedSnapper Posts: 2,569
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    I am struggling to see what they are worried will happen to people if they hear a reference to Rolf Harris or one of his songs.

    This country has gone mad.
  • mickmarsmickmars Posts: 7,438
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    My sons are now aged 17 and 22,but around 10 ago they were,in fact - Two Little Boys.
    I am so glad they are grown up now and wont remind people of the Rolf Harris song ;-)
  • degsyhufcdegsyhufc Posts: 59,251
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    gashead wrote: »
    Are you seriously saying that Saville's, Harris's et al crimes, as awful and horryfing as they (alledgedly, in Saville's case) are, are comparable to what Hitler did?! You know why you hate Godwin's Law? It's because people compare all sort of wild and ridiculous things to Hitler etc and the only person who doesn't think it's ridiculous is the person who's done it, so yes, you have 'proved' Godwin's Law.

    Were it to happen (and it probably will), cutting mentions of these light entertainers from light entertainment fluff pieces of broadcasting is not remotely in the same galaxy as pretending Hitler didn't exist, [ETA]and to believe that not cutting them will prevent it happening again is incredibly naive. It will happen again. The schedules could be 24 x 7 Jim'll Fix It and Cartoon Time and it'll still happen again. Over and over and over ad infinitum.

    ETA - what Harris did isn't even comparable to what Saville allegedly did, let alone Hitler.
    erm... he said the exact opposite. We see documentaries about Hitler all the time on tv. He did terrible things and the tv companies don't pretend he didn't exist or what he did never happened.
  • degsyhufcdegsyhufc Posts: 59,251
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    SouthCity wrote: »
    ITV have now apologised, they withdrew it from the +1 channel as soon as they realised their error:



    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-28124959

    What 'error'?
    They showed a programme that happened to have a scene with a song made popular by Harris.

    I doubt fans of Benidorm were fussed. It was a repeat so most probably knew what was coming up anyway.
  • C HorseC Horse Posts: 747
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    Completely OTT reaction.

    We can't erase history - keep the culture of the day intact, but obviously deny royalties.

    Kids (certainly teenagers) these days know all about these personalities - they ask questions.

    They also ask questions about why we were a racist, sexist, homophobic society in the past and can't believe that either!

    That's how it WAS - why pretend that it wasn't - and before anyone gets on their soapbox, I KNOW it wasn't everyone ... just most.
  • sweetpeanutsweetpeanut Posts: 4,805
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    Maybe its not to protect you and the rest of the GBP, but to stop any further hurt to the victims of these men. Must have been very hard for them all these years to have these people on TV over and over.
  • allafixallafix Posts: 20,683
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    DavidT wrote: »
    Or indeed Errol Flynn.
    With Charlie Chaplin? ;)
  • allafixallafix Posts: 20,683
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    Maybe its not to protect you and the rest of the GBP, but to stop any further hurt to the victims of these men. Must have been very hard for them all these years to have these people on TV over and over.
    They've got closure from the guilty verdicts. Time to move on. Erasing history is not necessary as well.
  • EStaffs90EStaffs90 Posts: 13,722
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    The epsiode will never be shown again then,

    There's also an episode from Have I Got News For You from 2009 that's never gonna see the light of day again.
  • sweetpeanutsweetpeanut Posts: 4,805
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    allafix wrote: »
    They've got closure from the guilty verdicts. Time to move on. Erasing history is not necessary as well.

    Surely its not up to you to decide when others should move on. :confused: They have had their noses rubbed in it all their lives. Maybe they are due respite from it all.

    Maybe you need to move on and live in the here and now, rather than watching old programmes ;-)
  • TootlesTheTaxiTootlesTheTaxi Posts: 219
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    dodrade wrote: »
    Sexual abuse of children has become the one unforgiveable sin in society, considered far worse than murder or terrorism.

    Caravaggio was a murderer, but his paintings aren't banned. Phil Spector produced songs still get airplay. Gig Young killed his wife in a murder-suicide but the BBC still regularly show his Oscar winning performance in They shoot horses don't they?

    Surely if we are to be consistent in erasing Savile's memory Stoke Mandeville Hospital should be closed, or at least those wards he raised money from.

    Good points. Another example is Eric Gill, I believe the BBC still use his typeface and he abused his children, his sister and his dog.
  • 1fab1fab Posts: 20,022
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    I don't understand this at all - erasing people who have committed misdemeanours from popular culture would be ridiculous. Nobody is all good or all bad, after all. I don't need to know the moral attitudes of every artist / musician, etc. that I admire. I can admire the art work, without knowing anything about the creator.
  • jazzydrury3jazzydrury3 Posts: 26,980
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    On the song Two Little Boys, I read a post in the General Discussion forum, that song was wrote in 1902, and kept people going through 2 world wars, who has tbe right to erase it
  • iaindbiaindb Posts: 13,278
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    Maybe its not to protect you and the rest of the GBP, but to stop any further hurt to the victims of these men. Must have been very hard for them all these years to have these people on TV over and over.

    Very sensible post,

    The reason the daughter's friend finally went to the police (and she did so before the Savile stuff came out) was because she was angry and upset seeing Harris on the TV all the time, treated as a much-loved personality, when really he was a dirty perv.

    This is the reason it will be so difficult to show any Rolf Harris stuff on TV in future - because he's lovable, family-friendly image is so far removed from the reality. Any clip would just leave a nasty taste in most people's mouth.
  • Steve9214Steve9214 Posts: 8,402
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    IMHO a simple caption at the start and end of programmes featuring these convicted offenders would be sufficient.

    As others have said - programmes will make no sense of they are cut to pieces.

    I once worked for a company that was up for sale, and one of the potential buyers was a company called Degussa from Germany.
    During WW2 they had a joint venture that manufactured the Zyklon B gas pellets used at Auschwitz.
    On their website (and the successor company that took them over) is a report by an independent historian they commissioned, to give an overview of the company and how it behaved during that era.
    The board of directors was "Nazified" and the Nazi directors were heavily criticised.

    http://history.evonik.com/sites/geschichte/en/predecessor-companies/degussa-ns/pages/default.aspx

    Simply stating "This was a bad thing, it happened, the people who ran the company at the time benefitted / profited from this bad thing".

    It did not help that in recent years the leading anti graffiti coating was made by this company, and was proposed to be used on the Holocaust memorial in Berlin
  • iaindbiaindb Posts: 13,278
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    On the song Two Little Boys, I read a post in the General Discussion forum, that song was wrote in 1902, and kept people going through 2 world wars, who has tbe right to erase it

    The big, big problem is the song is so closely associated with Harris that every time people hear it they won't be able to concentrate on the lyrics or the sentiment; they'll just be thinking what an evil bastard he was.
  • Steve9214Steve9214 Posts: 8,402
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    lucius12 wrote: »
    Lean Britton was in power in the 80s Big JOB's in Goverment he had, then sent to the EU, made a Sir then a Lord and made loads of money, which I has a Taxpayer helped pay for, like all "hard working taxpayers"

    What has Leon Britton got to do with anything ??
    He is not a suspect and never has been, he has stated he was given a dossier by a fellow MP, which he passed to the Home Office and the police.
    Methinks some people should think carefully before posting or tweeting without bothering to read all of a news story !!

    Arthur Mullard's Daughter claimed he abused her for years, yet they show movies he appeared in all the time.
  • Phoenix LazarusPhoenix Lazarus Posts: 17,305
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    Steve9214 wrote: »
    What has Leon Britton got to do with anything ??

    Google 'Elm House'.
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