Man United Supporters Thread (Part 47)

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  • computermastercomputermaster Posts: 4,016
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    Not sure if it's nostalgia or not, but there still does seem to be a lack of connection between the fans and players these days (especially the more recent ones) Even though we're still in the top 4, it doesn't really feel like it.
  • batdude_uk1batdude_uk1 Posts: 78,722
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    As I've said previously, Van Gaal will be gone if we fail to finish in the Champions League places.

    If Giggs gets the job, then we may as well resign ourselves to a Liverpool-esque period in the wilderness.

    I'd go all out for Ancelotti. That said, if Van Gaal guides us into the top 4, then by all means give him more time.

    Getting rid of LvG after less than a full season would be madness, Champions League or not.

    It is all very well saying we should go "all out" for this manager or that manager, but that means yet another season of "transition", we should be looking to have a bit of calm, and let a manager bed in, and try and make this "his" team, and let him shape things fully how he wants them to be, this cannot be achieved after only a few months.

    Have we lived upto expectations this season, not really, but is that cause to throw our toys out of the pram so to speak, and want or demand a new manager, no, it is not.

    We should not be getting into this cycle of sacking or looking to get rid of a manager after only one season, that sort of mindset helps no-one, and doesn't help us progress, if anything, it continues to set us back.

    Have we not learnt anything from when we had Sir Alex, and the rest (bar Arsenal) kept changing theirs, stability is key, and we should not be looking to do the opposite of that.

    Just like a player sometimes does, a manager needs a sort of settling in period, he has had that now, and so any sort of possible judgement should only really commence from next season.
  • NorthernNinnyNorthernNinny Posts: 18,412
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    I worry that Woody will get a bit twitchy if we don't get fourth and make the wrong decision.

    I also worry that he is a bit of a transfer muppet too and is a bit to keen on high profile signings rather than getting what we need in the summer.
  • Grim FandangoGrim Fandango Posts: 4,038
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    We should not be getting into this cycle of sacking or looking to get rid of a manager after only one season, that sort of mindset helps no-one, and doesn't help us progress, if anything, it continues to set us back.

    Have we not learnt anything from when we had Sir Alex, and the rest (bar Arsenal) kept changing theirs, stability is key, and we should not be looking to do the opposite of that.

    Idk, Wenger's not won the league for over a decade. However, Chelsea and City have won it multiple times between them despite chopping and changing their managers.

    LVG is never going to be a long term fixture, he's getting on in years and i thought we were all pretty sure he was here for 3/4 seasons max.
  • Grim FandangoGrim Fandango Posts: 4,038
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    Re the question of what will happen if we miss out on a CL place:

    I think an awful lot will depend on the manner in which we miss out. If we totally bomb over the next two months and fail to reach the CL, win the FA Cup or play any kind of decent football, then he'll almost certainly be given the push.

    However, achieving any of those things will keep LVG in the job, imo. Even if we don't reach the CL, as long as we look like we're moving forward i think they'll give him time.

    I genuinely think Moyes would have got the benefit of the doubt if he hadn't been so utterly abject in every area.
  • kingjeremykingjeremy Posts: 9,077
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    Have we not learnt anything from when we had Sir Alex, and the rest (bar Arsenal) kept changing theirs, stability is key, and we should not be looking to do the opposite of that.

    Chelsea have had 9 managerial changes in the last ten years or so.

    3 x league titles
    4 x FA Cup
    2 x League Cup
    1 x European Cup
    1 x Uefa Cup

    That's a shit load more than Arsenal have won in the same time, there is no set rule about stability and winning things.

    And stop saying less than one season, he'll have had a full season.
  • Jim De VilleJim De Ville Posts: 16,097
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    Getting rid of LvG after less than a full season would be madness, Champions League or not.

    It is all very well saying we should go "all out" for this manager or that manager, but that means yet another season of "transition", we should be looking to have a bit of calm, and let a manager bed in, and try and make this "his" team, and let him shape things fully how he wants them to be, this cannot be achieved after only a few months.

    Have we lived upto expectations this season, not really, but is that cause to throw our toys out of the pram so to speak, and want or demand a new manager, no, it is not.

    We should not be getting into this cycle of sacking or looking to get rid of a manager after only one season, that sort of mindset helps no-one, and doesn't help us progress, if anything, it continues to set us back.

    Have we not learnt anything from when we had Sir Alex, and the rest (bar Arsenal) kept changing theirs, stability is key, and we should not be looking to do the opposite of that.

    Just like a player sometimes does, a manager needs a sort of settling in period, he has had that now, and so any sort of possible judgement should only really commence from next season.

    'Stability' is overrated.

    As others have pointed out, Chelsea, Madrid, City, etc. have all won loads of stuff, despite changing managers frequently. Whilst Wenger has won bugger all.

    It's not about 'throwing toys of the pram', it's about questioning whether the manager is making the most of his resources, or not.

    If we make the top 4, Van Gaal will have earned another season. If we don't, with the squad that we have, he won't.

    He said 3 months. Then he said 6 months. How long do we wait? I'm still on the fence about it, but if you can make players like Di Maria, Falcao, Van Persie and Rooney look bang average, whilst sidelining quality players like Mata and Herrera, then questions should be asked.
  • Jamesp84Jamesp84 Posts: 31,039
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    Re the question of what will happen if we miss out on a CL place:

    I think an awful lot will depend on the manner in which we miss out. If we totally bomb over the next two months and fail to reach the CL, win the FA Cup or play any kind of decent football, then he'll almost certainly be given the push.

    However, achieving any of those things will keep LVG in the job, imo. Even if we don't reach the CL, as long as we look like we're moving forward i think they'll give him time.

    I genuinely think Moyes would have got the benefit of the doubt if he hadn't been so utterly abject in every area.

    This is pretty much how I see it too, including the bit about Moyes.
  • TheMunchTheMunch Posts: 9,024
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    I don't buy the argument about LvG not having a full summer because he had to assess his squad and start spending late. He also had January to do something. And he DID spend big in the summer, so it's not like he missed out on making transfers.

    Man City won the league last season, in Pellegrini's first season in charge. Many teams change managers at the end of the season so they all have to spend time getting to know the squad before doing something. And what about teams changing managers during a season? The new manager doesn't have long to get used to the team. When Kenny Dalglish took over as caretaker after Hodgson was sacked he had an FA Cup game (against you lot, I think) the very day after. And it was in January so he didn't have time to waste before making purchases. And admittedly that resulted in the Andy Carroll transfer, but it also included the £50m Torres departure, £10m (I think) Ryan Babel sale and, the big one, Suárez for about £22m.

    LvG has the players there to be able to do more. He just needs to use them properly. Rooney shouldn't be sitting in the midfield while Mata and Herrera warm the bench.
  • kingjeremykingjeremy Posts: 9,077
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    Good posts people.

    He had over a month before the season started.
  • Joey BoswellJoey Boswell Posts: 25,141
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    Im for giving him a bit more time at present, we have some hard matches coming up very soon, that why next weeks against Sunderland is a must for us.
  • batdude_uk1batdude_uk1 Posts: 78,722
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    kingjeremy wrote: »
    Chelsea have had 9 managerial changes in the last ten years or so.

    3 x league titles
    4 x FA Cup
    2 x League Cup
    1 x European Cup
    1 x Uefa Cup

    That's a shit load more than Arsenal have won in the same time, there is no set rule about stability and winning things.

    And stop saying less than one season, he'll have had a full season.

    A full season yes, but not a full pre-season, which means he was playing catch-up from the beginning, and it is hard to get up to speed with a huge tour (and all of the press/local engagements etc) going on, so he was a bit hamstrung there.

    I get people's points about other teams changing managers and still winning things, but I still think it would be better to at least give a manager time to try and set things up "his way", and that does take more than one season.

    There is a difference I think between chopping and changing managers like City and Chelsea have done, whilst winning things, and Wenger who has overstayed his welcome somewhat.

    As I say, if things are not improving next season, that is the time to start any judgements, not after one.

    Would it be bad to miss out on the Champions League? Of course it would, but thankfully we can withstand that due to our commercial deals, but not for too much longer I would say.

    There is still a lot to fight for in the upcoming months ahead, hopefully we can do enough to finish in the top four, and win the F.A. cup, as that would I think be considered a good season.
    On the other hand, not doing either or both, would not be good, and would heap a lot of pressure on LvG, and the club to get this upcoming summer window right.
  • Jim De VilleJim De Ville Posts: 16,097
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    From a business perspective, winning the FA Cup is virtually irrelevant.

    The Champions League is everything.
  • batdude_uk1batdude_uk1 Posts: 78,722
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    From a business perspective, winning the FA Cup is virtually irrelevant.

    The Champions League is everything.

    Oh yes, same with the Europa League (bar the entry to the Champions League).
  • NorthernNinnyNorthernNinny Posts: 18,412
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    kingjeremy wrote: »
    Chelsea have had 9 managerial changes in the last ten years or so.

    3 x league titles
    4 x FA Cup
    2 x League Cup
    1 x European Cup
    1 x Uefa Cup

    That's a shit load more than Arsenal have won in the same time, there is no set rule about stability and winning things.

    And stop saying less than one season, he'll have had a full season.

    How many of those trophies did Jose win? The same guy they had to go crawling back to after shooting themselves in the foot by sacking him in the first place.

    They've spent a bloody fortune on recruiting managers and buying players in that time. Eventually something comes off.

    They also had a decent manager in Ancellotti,who they also sacked because he didn't win a trophy after doing the double the previous year.

    Do we really want to go down that road?

    We're paying for the monumental cock up in recruiting a guy with no pedigree to manage one of the football giants. The rot started there. Okay,it's not been a great season but there's a long way to climb after ending up seventh last time around.

    What do we do? Keep hiring and firing managers unless we get it right? That kind of attitude becomes a hard habit to break.
  • batdude_uk1batdude_uk1 Posts: 78,722
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    How many of those trophies did Jose win? The same guy they had to go crawling back to after shooting themselves in the foot by sacking him in the first place.

    They've spent a bloody fortune on recruiting managers and buying players in that time. Eventually something comes off.

    They also had a decent manager in Ancellotti,who they also sacked because he didn't win a trophy after doing the double the previous year.

    Do we really want to go down that road?

    We're paying for the monumental cock up in recruiting a guy with no pedigree to manage one of the football giants. The rot started there. Okay,it's not been a great season but there's a long way to climb after ending up seventh last time around.

    What do we do? Keep hiring and firing managers unless we get it right? That kind of attitude becomes a hard habit to break.


    I fully agree with you here, I couldn't have said any better.
  • d'@ved'@ve Posts: 45,452
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    kingjeremy wrote: »
    Good posts people.

    He had over a month before the season started.

    Precisely a month, in fact. Not long enough when over half of it was spent overseas on a prearranged pre-season tour. And then, the injuries started... and he had no previous experience of the difficult premier league. Even Jose Mourinho had trouble adapting his team last season, and he was well used to the PL.

    So although I had hoped we'd be challenging for the title this season, I am not really surprised that instead, we are challenging for the top 4 - and are well in the hunt for that. Next season is when the crunch will come for LVG, that's when he really does have to do the title-chasing business, and play like Man United should. Sod that for a lark this season though, wins are what counts for now and the pretty football can wait as far as I am concerned.
  • TeeGeeTeeGee Posts: 5,772
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    Even under Moyes I always thought that the quality and attitute of the players was every bit as important as that of the Manager. If you are going to pay big money then at least ensure that the players will deliver.

    Watching on TV this weekend most of the other clubs, even the lesser ones, seemed to show more effort and commitment than we did. Liverpool were lucky with many refereeing decisions but they looked up for it from the start and their defence is rock solid nowadays.

    The fact that we were sunk by an ex Liverpool player (not good enough for them!) just rubs salt in the wound.
  • Grim FandangoGrim Fandango Posts: 4,038
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    Robert Lewandowski latest name linked with us.

    Lew and Roo up top would be a great partnership, i can feel it in my bones.
  • f_196f_196 Posts: 11,829
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    Robert Lewandowski l

    ....would be yet another name where we're too late to the party.

    If we want him, we should have gone for him 2-3 years ago.
  • Joey BoswellJoey Boswell Posts: 25,141
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    Stories from the papers

    The Sun

    Manchester United did not need Radamel Falcao - that is the shock verdict of his Monaco boss Leonardo Jardim.

    United paid Monaco a £9million loan fee and can buy the star for £45mon top of that this summer. But that looks increasingly unlikely as Falcao, 29, struggles to impress under Louis Van Gaal.

    And his Moanco manager Jardim said: 'I dont know if he made a mistake to join United'

    'In the last days of August I was thinking Falcao would leave - but I thought he would go to another club'.

    'In England other teams wanted him. But I didnt think United would be the ones taking him as they had Robin Van Persie and Wayne Rooney.

    'Maybe they did not need him. Its my opinion but not my decision to make'.

    Jardim whose side play Arsenal in the Champions League on Wednesday added: 'I think other clubs needed him more such as Chelsea, Manchester City or Liverpool'.

    'I think at the moment it would have been easier to go to Chelsea, Liverpool or even Real Madrid'.
  • NorthernNinnyNorthernNinny Posts: 18,412
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    f_196 wrote: »
    ....would be yet another name where we're too late to the party.

    If we want him, we should have gone for him 2-3 years ago.

    We may well have done but it may have been his dream to play for Munich.;-)

    Or even x,y or z.:p
  • Jim De VilleJim De Ville Posts: 16,097
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    Robert Lewandowski latest name linked with us.

    Lew and Roo up top would be a great partnership, i can feel it in my bones.

    If you do not work for a tabloid newspaper, then you really should.
  • Grim FandangoGrim Fandango Posts: 4,038
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    It's long been the dream.
  • Jim De VilleJim De Ville Posts: 16,097
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    It's long been the dream.

    As long as you're aware that 'kid', 'child', 'toddler', 'youngster' and any other word regularly used to describe somebody who's under 10 is absolutely banned.

    'Tot' is the only acceptable variant.
This discussion has been closed.