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How was the failure of the task Zee's fault?

muzungumuzungu Posts: 343
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I don't get last night's episode and the massive Fired signs afterwards.

Zee got about the task much much better than Miles did. Miles made error upon error. But in the end the team had more money left. So be it, so Zee's team lost.

But how was that his responsibility?

Zee knew the task was about money and not about the quality of the items they had to purchase. So his strategy of going to the souk was a right one. If you can't get them at the souk, the mall is a second alternative. There was enough time.

Leah sabotaged him from the start. I had the feeling that maybe she had had a clash with Zee before, but she was very negative. She didn't lead the subteam. She just moaned about the PM from start to finish.

She said she would follow his lead by going to the souk, then without letting him know she went to the mall and did nothing but moan when she was asked to follow the initial strategy.

The team moaned afterwards about not having received a clear directive from Zee. How was that not a clear directive?

And why did LS go on about Leah following her gut-feeling of going to the mall, Why would that have been a better decision?

Zee's downfall must have been his attitude to women, but not necessarily the leading of the task.
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    lightdragonlightdragon Posts: 19,059
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    His first mistake was arrogance. Telling them to put away their maps because he's the expert means that not only that he didn't care that the rest didn't know their way around, but that they would be reliant solely on his knowledge.

    His "forget the quality, go for cheap", was wrong. They were dealing with a prestigious hotel, quality is everything. It's getting the quality at the best price that matters. The mall was an option for a reason, there may have been at least one item that you could only get there, so splitting for the first couple of hours to scout would've been better.

    Finding the oud was a problem, and that's because he'd given them the wrong information.

    Yes Leah let herself down this episode, but she wasn't to blame for decisions Zee made.
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    slouchingthatchslouchingthatch Posts: 2,351
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    Both project managers made mistakes, and both followed strategies which have produced wins in the past. Myles tried to get all the products, accepting he might pay more by going to the mall - he was fully aware of that. Zee focussed on getting deeper discounts, and perhaps underestimated that running around the souks when you're not sure what you're after is a likely time-waster. It's too simplistic to say that there is a right or wrong strategy on this particular task.

    What killed Zee was his failure to secure the highest value items on which he could negotiate the best discounts. It's all very well haggling over a 150 dirham palm tree, but you're never going to get the kind of discount (or avoid the kind of fine) that negotiating an oud down from 1850 to 990 dirhams will get you.

    The task was measured in pounds, which made it confusing, but Jordan's 860 dirham discount was worth around £150. The overall winning margin for Evolve was £88. In this case, one product had a massive - indeed task-winning impact - on the task. The little deals we saw candidates striking at the end for 20 dirhams of this or whatever of that were largely irrelevant.

    I've covered this and some random other stuff in my weekly blog review (if anyone's interested):

    http://slouchingtowardstv.com/2013/05/29/the-apprentice-buy-buy-in-dubai-then-bye-bye/
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    Super_FurrySuper_Furry Posts: 774
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    He was the project manager but didn't manage the project.
    He was also a bell-end.

    Most obvious firing of the series - they couldn't even edit it to make it look like a difficult decision for Shugs.
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    circlebro2019circlebro2019 Posts: 17,560
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    it wasnt, he was the victim of sexual harassment
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,747
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    Both project managers made mistakes, and both followed strategies which have produced wins in the past. Myles tried to get all the products, accepting he might pay more by going to the mall - he was fully aware of that. Zee focussed on getting deeper discounts, and perhaps underestimated that running around the souks when you're not sure what you're after is a likely time-waster. It's too simplistic to say that there is a right or wrong strategy on this particular task.

    What killed Zee was his failure to secure the highest value items on which he could negotiate the best discounts. It's all very well haggling over a 150 dirham palm tree, but you're never going to get the kind of discount (or avoid the kind of fine) that negotiating an oud down from 1850 to 990 dirhams will get you.

    The task was measured in pounds, which made it confusing, but Jordan's 860 dirham discount was worth around £150. The overall winning margin for Evolve was £88. In this case, one product had a massive - indeed task-winning impact - on the task. The little deals we saw candidates striking at the end for 20 dirhams of this or whatever of that were largely irrelevant.

    I've covered this and some random other stuff in my weekly blog review (if anyone's interested):

    http://slouchingtowardstv.com/2013/05/29/the-apprentice-buy-buy-in-dubai-then-bye-bye/

    Love your blog, it made me giggle. Will look out for it now. Fab, thanks.
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    slouchingthatchslouchingthatch Posts: 2,351
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    Tiggi wrote: »
    Love your blog, it made me giggle. Will look out for it now. Fab, thanks.
    Thanks :-)
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    ACUACU Posts: 9,104
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    He was arrogant, which for candiadtes is the norm. So not a reason to fire him. Leah should have gone, she was dead against him all day. She was well and truely pi$$ed of that the team didnt choose her, and she did nothing but bitch and moan all day.

    Zee should have brough Neil and Leah into the board room, he would have been safe then. Leah or Neil would have gone. Shugs even said, that if Neil didnt make the mistake on the Kandor, they would have won. That was a massive hint to Zee, bring in Neil.

    The sub-team all day at the same souk. Surely at some point, they must have thought we cant get these things here, lets move on to another place. Yet they didnt, they just wanted to fail. That for me is wrong, and if Shugs fired all three of them just for that, it would have been justifiable.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 302
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    From a tactics point of view Zee's biggest error was not to go to the souk himself and send the sub team off to get items that patently HAD to be obtained elsewhere like the flag, plant etc. Surely that would have made the best use of Zee's actual familiarity with the place.

    For any stranger there has to be an element of pot luck in finding anything specific in a large souk
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    Hollie_LouiseHollie_Louise Posts: 39,992
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    Had he taken the right people into the boardroom with him he would still be in the competition.. Leaving Kurt and Neil out when they made two errors that ultimately lost them the task but chose to take Natalie and Leah in there was no way he could stay.. Kurt made an easy mistake but it still cost them money for the small flag and Neil buying the wrong item got them a fine, his excuses for not taking them into the boardroom on YF were pitiful
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    haphashhaphash Posts: 21,448
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    He was the project manager but didn't manage the project.
    He was also a bell-end.

    Most obvious firing of the series - they couldn't even edit it to make it look like a difficult decision for Shugs.

    This definitely. Not before time and he was sexist.
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    meglosmurmursmeglosmurmurs Posts: 35,110
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    Famous last words - "You can put the map away because I know Dubai like the back of my hand."

    Or in other words - 'Put the map away because I don't want anyone else getting any knowledge of the area, I want you all to rely on me so I get all the credit.'
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    muzungumuzungu Posts: 343
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    [...]His "forget the quality, go for cheap", was wrong. They were dealing with a prestigious hotel, quality is everything.

    It didn't matter in this task. It was never mentioned.
    From a tactics point of view Zee's biggest error was not to go to the souk himself and send the sub team off to get items that patently HAD to be obtained elsewhere like the flag, plant etc. Surely that would have made the best use of Zee's actual familiarity with the place.

    For any stranger there has to be an element of pot luck in finding anything specific in a large souk

    That's right and an interesting point you raise.

    In that case he would indeed have made best use of his own local knowledge and he could have sent Leah and the subteam to the mall with the instruction of negotiating the best deal. That way in a case of loss he could have taken them back to the boardroam for lack of negotiation skills.
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    ShrikeShrike Posts: 16,609
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    muzungu wrote: »
    ...
    And why did LS go on about Leah following her gut-feeling of going to the mall, Why would that have been a better decision?
    ...

    I don't think Lord Sid's point was that it would have been a better decision, rather he was berating her for going against her own judgement and then moaning about it all day.
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    muzungumuzungu Posts: 343
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    haphash wrote: »
    This definitely. Not before time and he was sexist.

    So? How did that make them lose the task?

    If Leah is the strong female she says she is (and she no doubt is), why did she not raise her point about going to the mall to Zee IN the group meet when they discussed the strategy?

    Why not make a point to his face in stead of trying to sabotage his decision as PM and moan about him behind his back? She only mentioned to Zee that she was on her way to the mall when he called her in the car. She did not discuss the change in strategy with her PM at her own initiative.

    A very weak performance on her part, whether he was being sexist or demeaning to her or not. And yes, I think he was being sexist.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 939
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    How was the failure not Zee's fault?

    He, for me, was one of the worst candidates in the shows history and indicative of the loss of quality in this show. Stuart Baggs was a big head but he was a bright guy who knew his stuff, Lee McQueen was a bit dim but his drive and enthusiasm was infectious, Zee has no redeeming qualities. Zee is arrogance and stupid - a lethal combination.

    He seems like a spontaneous person who cant think ahead. He chose the girls for the BR but failed to pick either of the guys who were both responsible for errors while neither girl was responsible for an error. He failed to see that this would led to claims of sexism. To be honest, the sexism accusations were fair enough. It was one explanation as to why he didn't pick the team members who actually made mistakes. Plus, they only lost by 90 quid so if he had half a brain he'd have seen that the guys were the obvious candidates but as I say - stupid.
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    Philip WalesPhilip Wales Posts: 6,373
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    As well being of an Asian cast he would of probably been able to obtain better discounts in the souks, there's always a tourist price and a local price, and the locals would of more than likely helped him more. The flag and Palm task was so simple anyone of his group could of done it, it took no special knowledge as proven by the fact the other team turned up at the same place and got their flag cheaper as well.
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    lightdragonlightdragon Posts: 19,059
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    muzungu wrote: »
    It didn't matter in this task. It was never mentioned.

    Not in the long run, but it was what stopped his team from going to the mall. And IMO that was fatal, if his subteam had gone there, they would've picked up the right garment, and probably have been able to use the "we would like a better discount than you gave the other team". That would've been the win.

    They may also have found out about the oud, and that would've been the squishing of Myles team.
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    djfunnymandjfunnyman Posts: 12,585
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    Both Zee and Myles were terrible PM's, but Zee's team were slightly worse and Zee should have at least brought Kurt back to the boardroom
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    lammtarralammtarra Posts: 4,345
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    muzungu wrote: »
    Zee got about the task much much better than Miles did. Miles made error upon error.

    This is perhaps the least successful buying task ever, with neither team getting more than half the items on the list or emerging with much credit.
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    FirespireFirespire Posts: 4,667
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    As well being of an Asian cast he would of probably been able to obtain better discounts in the souks, there's always a tourist price and a local price, and the locals would of more than likely helped him more.

    As long as he wasn't wearing the Kandura because he would have been charged more -
    http://www.thenational.ae/news/uae-news/i-was-ripped-off-for-wearing-a-kandura
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 673
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    He shot down Natalie in the car.
    He brought the wrong people into the boardroom.
    He got his 'local' knowledge wrong with the Oud.
    He should have been the one to go to the market due to his local knowledge.
    He admitted that he brought Natalie into the boardroom due to lack of contribution yet he was the one who wouldn't let her contribute - he was playing it tactically and hoped to use her as a scapegoat.

    Imo, the team should have picked Leah as the PM as she has been one of the few throughout the series to demonstrate that she has negotiation skills which was what the task was all about.
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    Purple.Purple. Posts: 4,593
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    He was acting like an idiot, but although I liked a lot Leah until last night I thought she deserved to go compared to the other two in the boardroom. Natalie was a bit unprofessional in the boardroom though.
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    gerry dgerry d Posts: 12,518
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    If Zee had grown a pair & took Kurt & Neil in the boardroom or maybe even 1 of them then Zee might not have been fired.Zee probably thought that taking the 2 girls in with him would make him safe considering the girls track record so far this series.

    I'm glad he is gone.
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    jiroosjiroos Posts: 15,212
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    Because he claimed to have all the "local knowledge" one could wish for - but still didn't know what an oud was...:D
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    don robertodon roberto Posts: 498
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    They were dealing with a prestigious hotel, quality is everything.


    Originally posted by muzungu

    It didn't matter in this task. It was never mentioned.

    It was made very clear that it was a prestigious hotel, the contestants visited it at the start. They were told to buy quality at the best price not tat (to use Lord S' words).
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