I see that a lot is being made of the first Brit in donkeys years to win as an influential factor in a selection.
However, this shouldn't really come into it i.e a sportsperson who has excelled in a field where we've had previous success shouldn't be penalised as such.
For example, Rory McIlroy's achievement in winning a golf major is equivalent to Andy Murray's last night. However, it seems that it it is somehow seen as lesser because of the weight of history angle, which isn't right.
Anyone can win a golf major. 2 rookies have won the last 5 ffs. It's ridiculous how wide open they are. Only the best players win tennis majors. Way too many variables involved with the golf ones
I see that a lot is being made of the first Brit in donkeys years to win as an influential factor in a selection.
However, this shouldn't really come into it i.e a sportsperson who has excelled in a field where we've had previous success shouldn't be penalised as such.
For example, Rory McIlroy's achievement in winning a golf major is equivalent to Andy Murray's last night. However, it seems that it it is somehow seen as lesser because of the weight of history angle, which isn't right.
Although I point to "first" and "years since" myselff, logically I don't really diagree with the general sentiment.
But in reality it does matter in such as votes and general accolades, the worst example being the England 2005 Ashes team who were generally lauded and all got MBEs FFS for being the ftrst England cricket team to win ( i.e not to fail to win ) the biannual battle of the Ashes in years.
I personally think that Andy with his Olympic gold medal and Wimbledon runner's up spot in addition to winning the US Open does beat Rory this year.
But I do think it absurd that the clearly ranked world no 1 golfer, US PGA champion and winner of other tournaments seems to be left out of probably most proposed shortlists, I sincerely hope not the one that matters.
^ I think that's a more reasonable post that an a rather flippant 'anyone can win a golf major' theory
Oh really? So the best players always win the majors? Like Bradley, Clarke, Simpson, Oos yes?
Majors are so hit and miss in golf. In tennis they are so incredibly hard won. Not knocking the golfing majors but they throw up some really weird outcomes. If McIlroy won say 2 this year then he'd be a valid contender.
Oh really? So the best players always win the majors? Like Bradley, Clarke, Simpson, Oos yes?
Majors are so hit and miss in golf. In tennis they are so incredibly hard won. Not knocking the golfing majors but they throw up some really weird outcomes. If McIlroy won say 2 this year then he'd be a valid contender.
You seem to be missing the general thrust of my original post. If Rory McIlroy steps up to the first tee of the PGA and emerges victorious 72 holes later, he literally has done as well as a contemporary in another sport, i.e won. You can't do any better than finishing first, and in a tournament of equivalent prestige and the attendant pressure it brings.
I don't necessarily agree that because golf produces a wider variety of winners it devalues it somehow. You could just as easily argue that it makes it harder to win because there's so many dangerous 'floaters' who could have the rounds of their lives preventing a highly ranked player from doing so.
Although it is rightly reported upon in the media and may influence people's thinking, the fact that a fellow countryman has won the same or similar event recently as opposed to decades ago, is irrelevant with regard to that individual achievement. That was the main point I was making, not trying to dilute Murray's achievements at all....I totally agree that to win a tennis major takes a Herculean effort, and I'm full of admiration for him.
The level of fitness between top tennis athletes and top golfers is worlds apart. I love golf, second fave sport after tennis but comparing the likes of Darren Clarke or Jimiez with Andy, Novac etc is nonsense. But if its about personality then who knows.
The level of fitness between top tennis athletes and top golfers is worlds apart. I love golf, second fave sport after tennis but comparing the likes of Darren Clarke or Jimiez with Andy, Novac etc is nonsense. But if its about personality then who knows.
I agree, and similarly golf is my second fave individual "sport" after tennis but I just don't really consider golf a sport in the real sense. Just to reiterate, I love it- and darts for that matter- but don't consider either proper sports. There'll be ten olympians/paralympians in the top ten anyway I'd imagine
The level of fitness between top tennis athletes and top golfers is worlds apart. I love golf, second fave sport after tennis but comparing the likes of Darren Clarke or Jimiez with Andy, Novac etc is nonsense. But if its about personality then who knows.
I agree too, I don't know how those top players keep going for four plus hours, round after round, it's truly phenomenal. Then again, darts and snooker are two of my favourite sports
As for the personality angle, it's always been a bit of a misnomer as there's several examples of non-'characters' winning or being podium placed down the years
Well Murray bagged the US Open, congrats to him, but my feeling is that, great though this achievement is, it won't win him Sports personality this year.
Well Murray bagged the US Open, congrats to him, but my feeling is that, great though this achievement is, it won't win him Sports personality this year.
I think you are right, as the Scottish vote will be split tween him and Hoy:D
I think Murray will be in with a much larger chance of winning due to the fact the match was so thrilling and to beat Novak, one of the greatest tennis players of this era, who earlier this year was looking at doing the calendar grand slam, is massive. To finally win was massive and the gold medal was the icing on the cake, as well as finally reaching the Wimbledon final.
Although I wouldn't mind Wiggins winning, Murray has been runner up a couple times before (I think) so even without major achievements, the voting public obviously do quite like him. And not only did he win his first slam, but he has been in the Wimbledon final and won that olympic gold, which I just feel edges it for him.
But, to be really honest, I don't think SPOTY would rank too high in either man's achievements, they are not going to be distraught either way.... I think Wiggins will get the knighthood, and Murray will get an upgrade on whatever honour he has now.
Finally, where is Jonathan Marray is your poll?
You think wrong, Andy's not been close before, not been in the top 3.
I was, however, pleasantly surprised that he was 5th last year ( albeit Cav beat everyone by miles, unusual for him ), which was decent recognition for reaching at least the semis of all 4 Slams. This year he clearly brings so much more to the table, though in what is a very competitive year to put it mildly.i .
I'm like you in that I wouldn't mind Bradley winning it ( or Mo ), but do edge to Andy
I think you are right, as the Scottish vote will be split tween him and Hoy:D
My personal choice would be Catherine Grainger.:)
I doubt that there will be much splitting in Hoy's direction, though he did have another great Games. It'll be shove over Chris, we're voting for Andy '
Ah, Kath Grainger, my moments of the Games were when she won with Anna Watkins, and then later that sheer joy on her face. I have rarely seen someone just so happy and content in quite a quiet way.
We are of course assuming that any of them give a flying turd about a daft popularity contest that hardly anyone watches, compared to the massive prizes they've already won this year.
You think wrong, Andy's not been close before, not been in the top 3.
I was, however, pleasantly surprised that he was 5th last year ( albeit Cav beat everyone by miles, unusual for him ), which was decent recognition for reaching at least the semis of all 4 Slams. This year he clearly brings so much more to the table, though in what is a very competitive year to put it mildly.i .
I'm like you in that I wouldn't mind Bradley winning it ( or Mo ), but do edge to Andy
My mistake... it must have been the junior award as someone else said...
But looking at past winners of it, in 1997 Greg Rusedski beat both Henman and Redgrave to the title, for just making a final (but I believe it was the first Brit for a while)! So it really isn't predictable! I think some of the nominees this year would have walked some of the other years!
it's such a shame that andy's victory had to be this year of all years, he'll likely miss out on SPOTY.
Yeah, I can just imagine him on his knees in floods of tears, smashing his racket repeatedly into the floor when he realises he's just screwed his chances of winning the prestigious BBC Something Or Other of the Year Award!
20 stages. 3 weeks. 2k miles. 2 rest days. 2 ITT stage wins. 1st ever Brit TDF winner. Part of British 1-2.
10 days later. 7th Olympic medal. 4th Gold. What's so special about Wiggo? As well as all the other major victories in track AND road cycling...
-Among his many accomplishments, Wiggins holds two unique achievements: he is the only cyclist to have won the Tour de France and an Olympic gold medal in the same year and the only person to have won a Grand Tour and a gold medal in Olympic track cycling.
We are of course assuming that any of them give a flying turd about a daft popularity contest that hardly anyone watches, compared to the massive prizes they've already won this year.
But I'm going for Wiggo or Murray.
I think most regard it as a nice to have especially as it's voted for by the public (let's be honest we all like to be liked/popular). A bit like all the talk about what hoours they will get, it's nice to get an MBE & have a trip to the Palace. However it's not what has driven them in training for years on end.
20 stages. 3 weeks. 2k miles. 2 rest days. 2 ITT stage wins. 1st ever Brit TDF winner. Part of British 1-2.
10 days later. 7th Olympic medal. 4th Gold. What's so special about Wiggo? As well as all the other major victories in track AND road cycling...
-Among his many accomplishments, Wiggins holds two unique achievements: he is the only cyclist to have won the Tour de France and an Olympic gold medal in the same year and the only person to have won a Grand Tour and a gold medal in Olympic track cycling.
well murray is the only person to win a gold medal and the US open in the same year.
I think most regard it as a nice to have especially as it's voted for by the public (let's be honest we all like to be liked/popular). A bit like all the talk about what hoours they will get, it's nice to get an MBE & have a trip to the Palace. However it's not what has driven them in training for years on end.
As you say they accept the titles given to them out of respect.
Just think if Murray or Wiggins for example said "no i don't want to win a public vote or be given an honour by the Queen"
well murray is the only person to win a gold medal and the US open in the same year.
Only MALE. Serena this year/Venus/Steffi Graf have won Wimbeldon/Gold/US Open in the same year.
Plus, hey, i know how special Andy has been, i was merely giving some examples of why Wiggo is special, seeing as you asked.
Personally i can't separate Brad/Mo/Andy/Ben/Jess etc, and wouldn't give an individual award this year. It just doesn't seem fair trying to pick one ahead of the others, when so many have stepped up and the GB team as a whole have done so well.
Comments
Anyone can win a golf major. 2 rookies have won the last 5 ffs. It's ridiculous how wide open they are. Only the best players win tennis majors. Way too many variables involved with the golf ones
No comparison imo
Although I point to "first" and "years since" myselff, logically I don't really diagree with the general sentiment.
But in reality it does matter in such as votes and general accolades, the worst example being the England 2005 Ashes team who were generally lauded and all got MBEs FFS for being the ftrst England cricket team to win ( i.e not to fail to win ) the biannual battle of the Ashes in years.
I personally think that Andy with his Olympic gold medal and Wimbledon runner's up spot in addition to winning the US Open does beat Rory this year.
But I do think it absurd that the clearly ranked world no 1 golfer, US PGA champion and winner of other tournaments seems to be left out of probably most proposed shortlists, I sincerely hope not the one that matters.
Oh really? So the best players always win the majors? Like Bradley, Clarke, Simpson, Oos yes?
Majors are so hit and miss in golf. In tennis they are so incredibly hard won. Not knocking the golfing majors but they throw up some really weird outcomes. If McIlroy won say 2 this year then he'd be a valid contender.
I don't necessarily agree that because golf produces a wider variety of winners it devalues it somehow. You could just as easily argue that it makes it harder to win because there's so many dangerous 'floaters' who could have the rounds of their lives preventing a highly ranked player from doing so.
Although it is rightly reported upon in the media and may influence people's thinking, the fact that a fellow countryman has won the same or similar event recently as opposed to decades ago, is irrelevant with regard to that individual achievement. That was the main point I was making, not trying to dilute Murray's achievements at all....I totally agree that to win a tennis major takes a Herculean effort, and I'm full of admiration for him.
I agree, and similarly golf is my second fave individual "sport" after tennis but I just don't really consider golf a sport in the real sense. Just to reiterate, I love it- and darts for that matter- but don't consider either proper sports. There'll be ten olympians/paralympians in the top ten anyway I'd imagine
As for the personality angle, it's always been a bit of a misnomer as there's several examples of non-'characters' winning or being podium placed down the years
I think you are right, as the Scottish vote will be split tween him and Hoy:D
My personal choice would be Catherine Grainger.:)
You think wrong, Andy's not been close before, not been in the top 3.
I was, however, pleasantly surprised that he was 5th last year ( albeit Cav beat everyone by miles, unusual for him
I'm like you in that I wouldn't mind Bradley winning it ( or Mo ), but do edge to Andy
I doubt that there will be much splitting in Hoy's direction, though he did have another great Games. It'll be shove over Chris, we're voting for Andy
Ah, Kath Grainger, my moments of the Games were when she won with Anna Watkins, and then later that sheer joy on her face. I have rarely seen someone just so happy and content in quite a quiet way.
But I'm going for Wiggo or Murray.
My mistake... it must have been the junior award as someone else said...
But looking at past winners of it, in 1997 Greg Rusedski beat both Henman and Redgrave to the title, for just making a final (but I believe it was the first Brit for a while)! So it really isn't predictable! I think some of the nominees this year would have walked some of the other years!
and what 3 idiots voted for david beckam?
Yeah, I can just imagine him on his knees in floods of tears, smashing his racket repeatedly into the floor when he realises he's just screwed his chances of winning the prestigious BBC Something Or Other of the Year Award!
He won the Tour De France too, but evidently that's not on some peoples radar.
10 days later. 7th Olympic medal. 4th Gold. What's so special about Wiggo? As well as all the other major victories in track AND road cycling...
-Among his many accomplishments, Wiggins holds two unique achievements: he is the only cyclist to have won the Tour de France and an Olympic gold medal in the same year and the only person to have won a Grand Tour and a gold medal in Olympic track cycling.
I think most regard it as a nice to have especially as it's voted for by the public (let's be honest we all like to be liked/popular). A bit like all the talk about what hoours they will get, it's nice to get an MBE & have a trip to the Palace. However it's not what has driven them in training for years on end.
well murray is the only person to win a gold medal and the US open in the same year.
As you say they accept the titles given to them out of respect.
Just think if Murray or Wiggins for example said "no i don't want to win a public vote or be given an honour by the Queen"
It would be pretty negative.
Only MALE. Serena this year/Venus/Steffi Graf have won Wimbeldon/Gold/US Open in the same year.
Plus, hey, i know how special Andy has been, i was merely giving some examples of why Wiggo is special, seeing as you asked.
Personally i can't separate Brad/Mo/Andy/Ben/Jess etc, and wouldn't give an individual award this year. It just doesn't seem fair trying to pick one ahead of the others, when so many have stepped up and the GB team as a whole have done so well.