Doc Martin (Part 14 — Spoilers)

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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 340
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    Inside info

    If it is possible to pose questions (and get answers) I would like to know how the writing is actually done. Is it a team effort on the topic and then one person gets to do the work? Do muliple people submit outlines and one gets chosen? How did some episodes get written by people who did not then write any others? Are those people actually part of the team or completely outsiders.

    When you look on IMDB only one writer gets credit and no other writers are mentioned,

    Also, on IMDB, Craig Ferguson gets creator status (and even I think exec producer) but not on the DVDs that I have ever noticed.

    Don't recall where I read it but some reviewer commented that the team writing approach led to inconsistent characterizations.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,290
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    mmDerdekea wrote: »
    Right, right, of course!

    I think it is true for me that "every girl crazy 'bout a sharp dressed man". A well dressed man is absolutely more handsome than someone lounging around in casual wear. That's part of why DM is so attractive to me, outside his complex personality

    And, then, him taking off that jacket....!!! :):o

    1. The carwash scene
    2. The Peter Cronk ambulance scene (Absolutely at the door to the operating room/theatre, they take each other's hand.)
    3. The on his knees by the pig scene

    I can rewatch those scenes quite often! :)

    Guess what? Sendibo said she's terribly busy with school right now, but when she's not so busy, she'll work on a video for us!
    Yay! Thanks for the idea Mona! :D
  • SusieSagitariusSusieSagitarius Posts: 1,250
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    dmbesotted wrote: »
    If the premise and the character was based on MC/PB plans, then it would seem that whatever was put together by Mingella had to pass their test. Now that would be interesting to know. I just really see Mingella as hired help, not 'creator' as he is billed - I think that is just contractural.
    ....

    For me, the question would be a simple one to clarify the development of the Doc Martin we know today.
    • We know the original concept of Doc Martin Bamford came from the Saving Grace movie (courtesy of Mark Crowdy and Craig Ferguson).
    • And the Doc Martin Bamford character then moved on into the subsequent Doc Martin movie and Doc Martin and the Legend of the Cloutie movie (writer Simon Mayle, with acknowledgement to Crowdy and Ferguson as original writers/developers of the character).
    • Buffalo Productions was behind the two DM movies (not Saving Grace).
    • The TV series Doc Martin has Clunes and/or Braithwaite (hence, Buffalo) seeming to be the parents of the idea of a more curmudgeonly Doc Martin Ellingham after ITV said they liked the idea but wanted something edgier. Buffalo then brought in Dominic Minghella to flesh it out as cast/character creator and writer. Other writers like Edana Minghella and several others wrote episodes as well, through Series 1 and 2.
    • Starting in Series 3, Dominic Minghella gets a credit for "created by" but is no longer a writer of episodes.

    So my question comes from bullet point 4 above: it is to clarify the "idea" vs. the "creating" bits. What specifically and how much did each person (Dominic, Martin, Philippa, ITV) contribute/play a part in the characters and stories we finally have seen?
    I found this remark about John Cleese on Wikipedia

    Comment about John Cleese leaving Monty Python -
    He gets bored more easily than the rest of us. He's a difficult man, not easy to be friendly with. He's so funny because he never wanted to be liked. That gives him a certain fascinating, arrogant freedom

    Comment about Martin Clunes about his acting work -
    *"Likes to act a role different from the last one I've played." (so he probably finds it boring to do the same thing he's already done.)
    *"Want everyone to like me"; "I'm quite nice (Mrs. Merton show--attested to by Joanna Lumbly); "Seek approval on a grandiose scale; look what I do for a living" (seems to be generally liked by people who know him, fans he meets on set, and by press mostly)
    *He's so funny (found a way around painful situations as a child, rewarded by making people smile and laugh)
    *Certainly fascinating! -- freedom to be a reasonable man.
  • SusieSagitariusSusieSagitarius Posts: 1,250
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    NewPark wrote: »
    How do you interpret the look on DM's face when Edith visits him at his cottage and they are talking in the surgery? It was kind of a "soft" look, to me, and perhaps even a touch of affection/longing? And he did seem very open and at ease with her, perhaps more so than almost ever with Louisa.

    I love the question! (Questions brought up on this forum always help me to take another close look and formulate a response that I enjoy putting into words, rather than just going with the feeling I got.)

    The look I would describe as "guarded" and a bit of "taking the measure of" and "polite".

    Guarded-- even as he came through the door into his office after her as he saw the look on her face in the waiting room regarding the turmoil there. Oh, and maybe a bit chagrined because she saw it.
    More guarded--due to "do they pay you in chickens" followed by
    Taking the measure of the situation-- in his mind: "so that's how she's going to be"
    Polite, but guarded-- "just passing?"
    Polite, but with a bit of intimacy--"I see you still like impractical footwear"
    More guarded, taking the measure of--"What were you doing in Truro?"
    Guarded, but polite inquiry with a bit of intimacy--"Married?"
    Professional demeanor--"Isn't it customary to write a letter...."
    More bigtime guarded--"Are you trying to diagnose me?"

    I do love Edith's line about "Then I couldn't poke around in your underwear drawer." reflecting a bit of intimacy from their previous relationship, perhaps, just like his footwear remark. Just brilliant how those two small references set the stage regarding their previous relationship!

    And at the end after she leaves, he seems a bit chagrined or perhaps even a bit embarrassed about the interaction and/or maybe about his situation.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 99
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    Did anyone watch The Secret Life of Dogs? (Narrated by MC).
  • SusieSagitariusSusieSagitarius Posts: 1,250
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    NewPark wrote: »
    I've now gone through this site in more detail, and the parallels with DM are so striking (to me at least) that it's positively scary. Read the blog posts on the side as well as the main post.

    maybe it's just made too much of an impression on me but it's like they used these diagnostic criteria/traits as a blueprint for the character. (who then interpreted it with a lot of latitude). Someone please tell me I'm all wet.

    Not wet, but maybe you got a sprinkling, like when we used to do that before ironing clothes.;)

    I found the site interesting reading, too, as I compared notes with the AS young man I work with and others I've known in the past. (Disclaimer: they were all children/teenagers up to 23, not adults.) I've seen a broad range of severity of the syndrome, and also different combinations of characteristics. Mix into that the "nurture" part and "teenage hormones" stuff and they've virtually all been individuals to me that I've had to see and learn as such.

    While I can see bits in Doc, I see more so a bright boy, who had horrible parents and who figured out how to survive it, albeit not prettily as an adult.
  • SusieSagitariusSusieSagitarius Posts: 1,250
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    Did anyone watch The Secret Life of Dogs? (Narrated by MC).

    I was hoping it would appear on YT.
  • NewParkNewPark Posts: 3,537
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    Not wet, but maybe you got a sprinkling, like when we used to do that before ironing clothes.;)

    I found the site interesting reading, too, as I compared notes with the AS young man I work with and others I've known in the past. (Disclaimer: they were all children/teenagers up to 23, not adults.) I've seen a broad range of severity of the syndrome, and also different combinations of characteristics. Mix into that the "nurture" part and "teenage hormones" stuff and they've virtually all been individuals to me that I've had to see and learn as such.

    While I can see bits in Doc, I see more so a bright boy, who had horrible parents and who figured out how to survive it, albeit not prettily as an adult.

    I've worked with people with Asberger's also, but a few years ago before it was commonly diagnosed. I have a nephew who has Asberger's and a young granddaughter who has a lot of the characteristics of the article and who has otherwise been suggested to be on that spectrum. (Given my obsessive fascination with all things DM, I'm beginning to wonder about myself:eek::D).

    I actually think whether or not he "has" it is not really relevant -- I agree with Minghella that it should be left ambiguous. And people should be looked at for who they are, not as an embodiment of a diagnosis.
    That's the most important point in what follows.

    But: he does have enough of the DSM characteristics that a diagnostician would take a closer look. I think, by the way,that these come out more in S2, where we know MC wanted a change in the way his character is portrayed, and it may not be coincidence that Edana Minghella came on board at this time. (She seems to be, or have been, a psychiatric social worker.)

    The self-important third-rate psychologist that is Anthony Oakwood diagnosed him as this -- we can discount this b/c he's such a puffed-up jerk, but I do take into account that sometimes secondary characters are used to deliver "truths" to our main characters.

    I don't think we can really sort through the nature/nurture argument. Arguably his parents were horrible people who would have mistreated ANY child. But possibly also, having a son who was "different" in a way that would have been quite mysterious back then, brought out the worst in them, and resulted in more mistreatment than a differently abled child would have received.
  • NewParkNewPark Posts: 3,537
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    I've been wondering if I somehow missed the quiz this week and went to the site to check and find that it's under (re)construction --"major changes coming." Madmother?

    And on a related note, I was thinking of Hod's contribution last time and hoping she would be interested in doing a Series6 blog.
  • mmDerdekeammDerdekea Posts: 1,719
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    Mona, I think you should reach out to Lothian and let us know what you find out.

    Hey, Statesidefan, I'm not sure if you are joking or not. As Biffpup knows, I have a fairly good record of tracking down the stars I like.

    Never went after a writer though! :)
  • SusieSagitariusSusieSagitarius Posts: 1,250
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    NewPark wrote: »
    I've worked with people with Asberger's also, but a few years ago before it was commonly diagnosed. I have a nephew who has Asberger's and a young granddaughter who has a lot of the characteristics of the article and who has otherwise been suggested to be on that spectrum. (Given my obsessive fascination with all things DM, I'm beginning to wonder about myself:eek::D).

    I actually think whether or not he "has" it is not really relevant -- I agree with Minghella that it should be left ambiguous. And people should be looked at for who they are, not as an embodiment of a diagnosis.
    That's the most important point in what follows.

    But: he does have enough of the DSM characteristics that a diagnostician would take a closer look. I think, by the way,that these come out more in S2, where we know MC wanted a change in the way his character is portrayed, and it may not be coincidence that Edana Minghella came on board at this time. (She seems to be, or have been, a psychiatric social worker.)

    The self-important third-rate psychologist that is Anthony Oakwood diagnosed him as this -- we can discount this b/c he's such a puffed-up jerk, but I do take into account that sometimes secondary characters are used to deliver "truths" to our main characters.

    I don't think we can really sort through the nature/nurture argument. Arguably his parents were horrible people who would have mistreated ANY child. But possibly also, having a son who was "different" in a way that would have been quite mysterious back then, brought out the worst in them, and resulted in more mistreatment than a differently abled child would have received.

    Well said.

    I will say though, that the Oakwood character brought up the suspicion of Asperger's, but never was allowed to do a thorough diagnostic procedure, so was just guessing from what little he saw. And I like your description of him, btw.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,389
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    Not wet, but maybe you got a sprinkling, like when we used to do that before ironing clothes.;)

    I found the site interesting reading, too, as I compared notes with the AS young man I work with and others I've known in the past. (Disclaimer: they were all children/teenagers up to 23, not adults.) I've seen a broad range of severity of the syndrome, and also different combinations of characteristics. Mix into that the "nurture" part and "teenage hormones" stuff and they've virtually all been individuals to me that I've had to see and learn as such.

    While I can see bits in Doc, I see more so a bright boy, who had horrible parents and who figured out how to survive it, albeit not prettily as an adult.

    THis is how I prefer to see DM and it is why I latch onto Dominic Minghella's earlier remark that it was left to the viewers imagination. However, I am not sure why I am so determined that DM not have aspergers? Whether it is a problem I have or a worry that there won't be a true romantic conclusion that I know will carry on into the future if DM has aspergers, I am not sure. :confused:
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,389
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    dmbesotted wrote: »

    I found this remark about John Cleese on Wikipedia

    Comment about John Cleese leaving Monty Python -
    He gets bored more easily than the rest of us. He's a difficult man, not easy to be friendly with. He's so funny because he never wanted to be liked. That gives him a certain fascinating, arrogant freedom
    .

    Comment about Martin Clunes about his acting work -
    *"Likes to act a role different from the last one I've played." (so he probably finds it boring to do the same thing he's already done.)
    *"Want everyone to like me"; "I'm quite nice (Mrs. Merton show--attested to by Joanna Lumbly); "Seek approval on a grandiose scale; look what I do for a living" (seems to be generally liked by people who know him, fans he meets on set, and by press mostly)
    *He's so funny (found a way around painful situations as a child, rewarded by making people smile and laugh)
    *Certainly fascinating! -- freedom to be a reasonable man.

    Susie,
    I thought that quote about John Cleese was comparing him to DM not Martin Clunes. Maybe?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,389
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    THis from DOminic Minghella seems to indicate he had a fair bit to do with the creation of the characters:

    Dominic Minghella on 1 November 2012 at 9:03 am said:

    As for casting, it was SO long ago I doubt if even Caroline herself can remember! We’re talking 2003. As you evidently know, sometimes an agent will put someone forward to the casting director, or sometimes an actor will be specifically checked for availability and then auditioned, or sometimes the participants will have worked together before and so the casting process is organic. In the case of Doc Martin I had no producing role and I was busy writing Series 1, so I just don’t know how we got Caroline. But she’s perfect, isn’t she? I really believe her in the role.

    Trivia: she’s called Louisa after my first daughter, and Glasson after some great friends of ours, two strong, gorgeous, independent-minded sisters who could both be mistaken for LG.

    Then he said in January 2013:

    I have hardly seen Series 5, so I can’t comment, but if there are flaws I blame myself for creating “series architecture” which has boxed the writers and producers in.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,389
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    mmDerdekea wrote: »
    Hey, Statesidefan, I'm not sure if you are joking or not. As Biffpup knows, I have a fairly good record of tracking down the stars I like.

    Never went after a writer though! :)

    Mona,
    Jack Lothian's contact details are on this website:

    http://www.curtisbrown.co.uk/jack-lothian//works/

    He is also on twitter if you have access to that.
  • SusieSagitariusSusieSagitarius Posts: 1,250
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    cc.cookie wrote: »
    THis is how I prefer to see DM and it is why I latch onto Dominic Minghella's earlier remark that it was left to the viewers imagination. However, I am not sure why I am so determined that DM not have aspergers? Whether it is a problem I have or a worry that there won't be a true romantic conclusion that I know will carry on into the future if DM has aspergers, I am not sure. :confused:

    I think leaving it to the viewer's imagination sounds right. Any good story or piece of literature begs the question of the reader/viewer: "How does this relate to you, the reader/viewer?" That's why we love to talk about this series so much!

    To me, I don't care which it is, AS or not, or whether it is a combination of both. Either way there is still a compelling story being told and even more compelling possibilities for stories to come, I think.

    But I do shy away from the Asperger's diagnosis because putting a label on Doc worries me that it becomes the story of the syndrome, not the story of people having to figure out life and love. That might be part of Dominic's point, as well.
  • SusieSagitariusSusieSagitarius Posts: 1,250
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    cc.cookie wrote: »
    Susie,
    I thought that quote about John Cleese was comparing him to DM not Martin Clunes. Maybe?

    I was just fooling around comparing and contrasting the two actors. But the description of Cleese is somewhat DM-ish----I just wasn't thinking in that vein.:)
  • NewParkNewPark Posts: 3,537
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    cc.cookie wrote: »
    THis is how I prefer to see DM and it is why I latch onto Dominic Minghella's earlier remark that it was left to the viewers imagination. However, I am not sure why I am so determined that DM not have aspergers? Whether it is a problem I have or a worry that there won't be a true romantic conclusion that I know will carry on into the future if DM has aspergers, I am not sure. :confused:

    I think you are determined that he not have Asperger's for the completely sensible reason that once that is explicit, then all or almost all of his behavior gets dismissed or summed up as, oh well, that's an Asperger's for you.

    Which would make watching and discussing the series much less fun, as well as unfair to DM and to those who actually are on this spectrum.

    There's a fanfic -- quite a long one -- in which DM is actually diagnosed with Asperger's by a psychiatrist (or maybe neurologist?) who then coaches him along in interactions. As he and Louisa are reconciling (some years later) he explains his diagnosis to her and they work out ways that they can deal with it and be together.

    I do think that Louisa is capable sooner or later of seeing that the very qualities she loves in him --- see speech in taxi -- are ones that also frustrate her and that she is going to need to coach him in how to respond to her as well as apply large doses of tolerance.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 340
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    I was just fooling around comparing and contrasting the two actors. But the description of Cleese is somewhat DM-ish----I just wasn't thinking in that vein.:)

    My thought when I read and posted it was that MC has said playing DM as this 'vile' character has been liberating. It has allowed him to be outside the persona that made him famous (or infamous) and outside his own need to be liked.

    Re Aspergers: I also do not want to think of this diagnosis when I see DM. There are enough chinks in the armour to show that there is a humanistic side to the character. I always feel that his relationship with the villagers has to do with his immersion in education and medicine and their nearly total lack of respect (?) for that and unwillingness/inability to follow simple medical directions.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,688
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    NewPark wrote: »
    I've been wondering if I somehow missed the quiz this week and went to the site to check and find that it's under (re)construction --"major changes coming." Madmother?

    And on a related note, I was thinking of Hod's contribution last time and hoping she would be interested in doing a Series6 blog.

    DR is totally re-doing the site. Nothing to do with me. If you want to ask any questions about it, email: info@docmartinonline.net
  • NewParkNewPark Posts: 3,537
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    Re the bandaged hand that was a large feature of S4E1 -- it occurred to me that I had never noticed it in S4E2, so went to check, and sure enough, it's the next morning and it's totally, completely gone. Hand has miraculously healed.

    It's much like the famous continuity lapse in which he walks back into Louisa's house with medical bag and defibrillator in hand, and leaves the next morning without them.

    I actually find these lapses rather charming -- it says to me that the writers/producers are not fanatically determined to present us with a reality drama, but are continually reminding us that this is not "real life" but a drama, a sophisticated adult fairy tale.

    Unless they're just careless, of course.
  • NewParkNewPark Posts: 3,537
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    madmother wrote: »
    DR is totally re-doing the site. Nothing to do with me. If you want to ask any questions about it, email: info@docmartinonline.net

    I'm glad she's continuing to be so involved! :D
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 340
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    Doc Martin writers

    I was surprised to see a rather youngish looking Jack Lothian - my mind's eye had him more mature

    I found this when looking for info on Richard Stoneman. It is not about Doc Martin but has similarities to some comments by Dominic Minghella.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/drama/sorted/episodeguide_episode3_writer.shtml
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 340
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    NewPark wrote: »
    Re the bandaged hand that was a large feature of S4E1 -- it occurred to me that I had never noticed it in S4E2, so went to check, and sure enough, it's the next morning and it's totally, completely gone. Hand has miraculously healed.

    It's much like the famous continuity lapse in which he walks back into Louisa's house with medical bag and defibrillator in hand, and leaves the next morning without them.

    I actually find these lapses rather charming -- it says to me that the writers/producers are not fanatically determined to present us with a reality drama, but are continually reminding us that this is not "real life" but a drama, a sophisticated adult fairy tale.

    Unless they're just careless, of course.

    What an understatement. If they were concerned with continuity would we have all the diffenent kitchens, artifacts in the surgery, bedrooms, beds, chemists
    aaahhhhh....

    But actually, I just felt that once Edith unwrapped it there was no need to rewrap as it was healing nicely.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 340
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    Clydesdales -

    What a great spot this was

    http://screen.yahoo.com/brotherhood-budweiser-173010089.html
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