Actually I thought it was very good and seemed much longer than the hour shown.
Agreed. But longer in a good way. Harrowing and powerful drama, like lots of McGovern stuff. But unlike many of his stories, there didn't seem to be a very dim light at the end of the very dark tunnel.
Absolutely compelling and VERY difficult viewing, so glad the slow roll credits gave me time to reflect on what I'd seen. The best hours television for me this year.
Some very very edge of the seat PTSD insight particularly when he was back home with his wife and child.
25 years & a child growing up without a father all for the honour of a different family? The army, eh? Dontcha just love what it does to young men's lives?
I know it's fiction but think there's more than a ring of truth to it:mad:
I wondered why the other lads family was in court for his trial?
No sign of Digital Sid tonight on the thread (he started the thread last week). Interested to hear your comments.
I made it clear that I didn't think too much of last week's story, but it was much better tonight, if you look at it as a drama - much more engaging than last week. Looking at it as an authentic treatise on the Army is another matter and I am not qualified in the slightest to give an opinion on that.
Things seem to have escalated further (as per link above) since I posted last week about Tim Collins's remarks. Collins said it was irresponsible and was highly critical of the instant 'court to front line' portrayal & of the presence of pubs in Afghanistan. He also said that the behaviour of the soldiers belonged in a fantasy world and was included purely to shock.
Agree with some of the comments above about the casting of Mackenzie Crook.
25 years & a child growing up without a father all for the honour of a different family? The army, eh? Dontcha just love what it does to young men's lives?
I know it's fiction but think there's more than a ring of truth to it:mad:
.....Oh dear, I bet you think all prison camps are like The Great Escape as well dont you?. Hells Bells!!!
What a load of tosh. Poor production and so far removed from reality as to lose any element of hard hitting it might have had.
Why do you say that? I'm not from a military background nor have any military friends, if you do then I would love to hear the reasons for your comments. One thing I said at the end was that I'd love to hear the views of someone who has served out in Afghanistan or similar.
I'm sure that the 'story' isn't commonplace but surely Jimmy McGovern has done some element of research
What I found interesting were my own opinions of the 'coward', his friend, and those of Macenzie Crook's character and how I was swayed between the three, I can certainly imagine that there are issues similar to this to deal with within our serving troops.
Why do you say that? I'm not from a military background nor have any military friends, if you do then I would love to hear the reasons for your comments. One thing I said at the end was that I'd love to hear the views of someone who has served out in Afghanistan or similar.
I'm sure that the 'story' isn't commonplace but surely Jimmy McGovern has done some element of research
What I found interesting were my own opinions of the 'coward', his friend, and those of Macenzie Crook's character and how I was swayed between the three, I can certainly imagine that there are issues similar to this to deal with within our serving troops.
BUT please feel free to correct me of I'm wrong
Had anyone done a bit of research, they wouldn't have made so many bone mistakes: berets like mushroom clouds; the poor set quite clearly built in a quarry; the repeated use of Sarge; and the general lack of cluelessness about modern military operations to name a few.
Covering up a suicide in camp as killed in action when each service death is subject to a post mortem examination and coroner inquest in the UK and all patrols would be in radio contact with battlegroup HQ.
The behaviour shown in the programme might have taken place in a drizzly Aldershot ten years ago but out in Afghanistan or Iraq nobody has got time for that sort of thing
The whole programme was clearly written and produced by people without a clue what they were actually doing.
This is clearly a Marmite programme, but i loved it.
As for people going on about it being unrealistic, it's fiction, it's made-up, it's not a documentary. Eastenders or Coronation Street aren't exactly realistic either, yet they have millions of viewers. A realistic fictional story would, by and large, be fairly boring, and wouldn't make a good TV programme.
Had anyone done a bit of research, they wouldn't have made so many bone mistakes: berets like mushroom clouds; the poor set quite clearly built in a quarry; the repeated use of Sarge; and the general lack of cluelessness about modern military operations to name a few.
Covering up a suicide in camp as killed in action when each service death is subject to a post mortem examination and coroner inquest in the UK and all patrols would be in radio contact with battlegroup HQ.
The behaviour shown in the programme might have taken place in a drizzly Aldershot ten years ago but out in Afghanistan or Iraq nobody has got time for that sort of thing
The whole programme was clearly written and produced by people without a clue what they were actually doing.
Personally, I watched it as a piece of drama as I suspect many others did. If you want to pick holes in it, surely you're watching the wrong channel
Had anyone done a bit of research, they wouldn't have made so many bone mistakes: berets like mushroom clouds; the poor set quite clearly built in a quarry; the repeated use of Sarge; and the general lack of cluelessness about modern military operations to name a few.
Covering up a suicide in camp as killed in action when each service death is subject to a post mortem examination and coroner inquest in the UK and all patrols would be in radio contact with battlegroup HQ.
The behaviour shown in the programme might have taken place in a drizzly Aldershot ten years ago but out in Afghanistan or Iraq nobody has got time for that sort of thing
The whole programme was clearly written and produced by people without a clue what they were actually doing.
There was also Deepcut Barracks in Surrey, four or five suicides in a matter of a few years. Incidently, have the true facts ever emerged about that ?
More recently, there was a suspicious rise in suspected suicides among British soldiers serving in Basra. An investigation was launched into the deaths, all of which involved fatal gunshot wounds.
It was obviously not factually accurate..it was a work of fiction. But I wouldn't have said it was completely beyond the bounds of possibility that bullying of that nature could still occur.
Anyway, it was more an examination of the characters involved than an expose of the army. Another morality tale, this time about friendship and loyalty.
I was gripped throughout, this was Jimmy McGovern back to his best..in my opinion.
This is clearly a Marmite programme, but i loved it.
As for people going on about it being unrealistic, it's fiction, it's made-up, it's not a documentary. Eastenders or Coronation Street aren't exactly realistic either, yet they have millions of viewers. A realistic fictional story would, by and large, be fairly boring, and wouldn't make a good TV programme.
There was also Deepcut Barracks in Surrey, four or five suicides in a matter of a few years. Incidently, have the true facts ever emerged about that ?
More recently, there was a suspicious rise in suspected suicides among British soldiers serving in Basra. An investigation was launched into the deaths, all of which involved fatal gunshot wounds.
It was obviously not factually accurate..it was a work of fiction. But I wouldn't have said it was completely beyond the bounds of possibility that bullying of that nature could still occur.
Anyway, it was more an examination of the characters involved than an expose of the army. Another morality tale, this time about friendship and loyalty.
I was gripped throughout, this was Jimmy McGovern back to his best..in my opinion.
The realism aspect of Accused is discussed so much by viewers on here and by people such as Tim Collins because JMcG has made it an issue himself by his deplorable comments on TV drama (see the separate thread on this) in which he talked at length at how realistic his writing was and that all TV drama should be like this.
But I agree as per above that this week's story worked much better as a drama than last week's.
BTW, I wonder what Army personnel are making of the line that said they are too stupid to realize the consequences of their actions, otherwise they wouldn't join up.
I felt it was a piece of very 'clunking' anti-war propaganda. Although I have no 'knowledge' of this personally, I have friends who were in the army, albeit many years ago in the days of Northern Ireland, who have agreed that of course there is bullying.
What McGovern sought to do (I think) is to remember that when you join the army, it's not a soft alternative to making a life for yourself in civvie street, Many young men and women, especially in parts of the country which have traditionally provided cannon fodder, only see that they will be part of a community, earning a wage and command respect........ even in this day and age where the glory of war is tarnished. The corporal said 'we don't get many intellectuals here' and he was spot on. I would be devastated beyond belief if one of my children joined up. I couldn't see any reason on earth to join and would NEVER be persuaded. the cycnical me knows any war these days is about money...Iraq, the Falklands, Afghanisthan and so on.
I thought he rather over-egged the bullying but I guess it depends on who he wanted his audience to be.
Had anyone done a bit of research, they wouldn't have made so many bone mistakes: berets like mushroom clouds; the poor set quite clearly built in a quarry; the repeated use of Sarge; and the general lack of cluelessness about modern military operations to name a few.
Covering up a suicide in camp as killed in action when each service death is subject to a post mortem examination and coroner inquest in the UK and all patrols would be in radio contact with battlegroup HQ.
The behaviour shown in the programme might have taken place in a drizzly Aldershot ten years ago but out in Afghanistan or Iraq nobody has got time for that sort of thing
The whole programme was clearly written and produced by people without a clue what they were actually doing.
So perhaps you ought to do your own research before making sweeping statements ...? ;)
I totally agree with RichmondBlue - Deepcut is very obviously relevant to this episode and, I suspect, may have been part of the inspiration, along with what happened in Basra. I find it hugely ironic (and hypocritical) that the army can have hysterics about an hour's worth of fictional television when it has spent so much time desperately trying to cover up what happened at Deepcut, where real people died amid allegations of bullying.
As with last week's episode, I found once I got past some of the plot contrivances, it was gripping and well acted. Not easy viewing by any means, but powerful and thought-provoking - which is what good drama should be about.
So perhaps you ought to do your own research before making sweeping statements ...? ;)
I totally agree with RichmondBlue - Deepcut is very obviously relevant to this episode and, I suspect, may have been part of the inspiration, along with what happened in Basra. I find it hugely ironic (and hypocritical) that the army can have hysterics about an hour's worth of fictional television when it has spent so much time desperately trying to cover up what happened at Deepcut, where real people died amid allegations of bullying.
As with last week's episode, I found once I got past some of the plot contrivances, it was gripping and well acted. Not easy viewing by any means, but powerful and thought-provoking - which is what good drama should be about.
If it had been set during basic training it would have been a lot more realistic, but it wasn't.
Seemed a bit far fetched. It was very harrowing. Brilliant performance by the dead squaddies war-hero father though, particularly in the scene at the funeral when he was trying to get the truth out of the main character. Very well acted and menacing, that scene.
Comments
Some very very edge of the seat PTSD insight particularly when he was back home with his wife and child.
10/10
I wondered why the other lads family was in court for his trial?
Though, MUCH better than last week in my opinion.
I made it clear that I didn't think too much of last week's story, but it was much better tonight, if you look at it as a drama - much more engaging than last week. Looking at it as an authentic treatise on the Army is another matter and I am not qualified in the slightest to give an opinion on that.
Things seem to have escalated further (as per link above) since I posted last week about Tim Collins's remarks. Collins said it was irresponsible and was highly critical of the instant 'court to front line' portrayal & of the presence of pubs in Afghanistan. He also said that the behaviour of the soldiers belonged in a fantasy world and was included purely to shock.
Agree with some of the comments above about the casting of Mackenzie Crook.
.....Oh dear, I bet you think all prison camps are like The Great Escape as well dont you?. Hells Bells!!!
Time he was pensioned off.
Why do you say that? I'm not from a military background nor have any military friends, if you do then I would love to hear the reasons for your comments. One thing I said at the end was that I'd love to hear the views of someone who has served out in Afghanistan or similar.
I'm sure that the 'story' isn't commonplace but surely Jimmy McGovern has done some element of research
What I found interesting were my own opinions of the 'coward', his friend, and those of Macenzie Crook's character and how I was swayed between the three, I can certainly imagine that there are issues similar to this to deal with within our serving troops.
BUT please feel free to correct me of I'm wrong
He only had to tell the court about himself being bullied. Would have got a few years off.
It was a good yarn. That said, I can't see bullying like that going on in a war zone.
...why the hell did you watch it then?
Covering up a suicide in camp as killed in action when each service death is subject to a post mortem examination and coroner inquest in the UK and all patrols would be in radio contact with battlegroup HQ.
The behaviour shown in the programme might have taken place in a drizzly Aldershot ten years ago but out in Afghanistan or Iraq nobody has got time for that sort of thing
The whole programme was clearly written and produced by people without a clue what they were actually doing.
As for people going on about it being unrealistic, it's fiction, it's made-up, it's not a documentary. Eastenders or Coronation Street aren't exactly realistic either, yet they have millions of viewers. A realistic fictional story would, by and large, be fairly boring, and wouldn't make a good TV programme.
Personally, I watched it as a piece of drama as I suspect many others did. If you want to pick holes in it, surely you're watching the wrong channel
There was also Deepcut Barracks in Surrey, four or five suicides in a matter of a few years. Incidently, have the true facts ever emerged about that ?
More recently, there was a suspicious rise in suspected suicides among British soldiers serving in Basra. An investigation was launched into the deaths, all of which involved fatal gunshot wounds.
It was obviously not factually accurate..it was a work of fiction. But I wouldn't have said it was completely beyond the bounds of possibility that bullying of that nature could still occur.
Anyway, it was more an examination of the characters involved than an expose of the army. Another morality tale, this time about friendship and loyalty.
I was gripped throughout, this was Jimmy McGovern back to his best..in my opinion.
The realism aspect of Accused is discussed so much by viewers on here and by people such as Tim Collins because JMcG has made it an issue himself by his deplorable comments on TV drama (see the separate thread on this) in which he talked at length at how realistic his writing was and that all TV drama should be like this.
But I agree as per above that this week's story worked much better as a drama than last week's.
BTW, I wonder what Army personnel are making of the line that said they are too stupid to realize the consequences of their actions, otherwise they wouldn't join up.
As McGovern said, it's a work of fiction and should be taken as such (though it is based on the accounts of an ex-soldier).
The closing credits thanked Steven McLaughlin author of "Squaddie - A Soldier's Story" for his help with the drama.
(I think the show itself won one following the first series)
What McGovern sought to do (I think) is to remember that when you join the army, it's not a soft alternative to making a life for yourself in civvie street, Many young men and women, especially in parts of the country which have traditionally provided cannon fodder, only see that they will be part of a community, earning a wage and command respect........ even in this day and age where the glory of war is tarnished. The corporal said 'we don't get many intellectuals here' and he was spot on. I would be devastated beyond belief if one of my children joined up. I couldn't see any reason on earth to join and would NEVER be persuaded. the cycnical me knows any war these days is about money...Iraq, the Falklands, Afghanisthan and so on.
I thought he rather over-egged the bullying but I guess it depends on who he wanted his audience to be.
Wrong. The end credits showed that this book was used: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Squaddie-Soldiers-Story-Steven-McLaughlin/dp/1845961455
So perhaps you ought to do your own research before making sweeping statements ...?
I totally agree with RichmondBlue - Deepcut is very obviously relevant to this episode and, I suspect, may have been part of the inspiration, along with what happened in Basra. I find it hugely ironic (and hypocritical) that the army can have hysterics about an hour's worth of fictional television when it has spent so much time desperately trying to cover up what happened at Deepcut, where real people died amid allegations of bullying.
As with last week's episode, I found once I got past some of the plot contrivances, it was gripping and well acted. Not easy viewing by any means, but powerful and thought-provoking - which is what good drama should be about.
If it had been set during basic training it would have been a lot more realistic, but it wasn't.