Well physical, sexual and emotional abuse can never be unintentional.
Sexual abuse does not always involve a child involved with an actual sex act with another, sometimes it is exposing the child regularly to sexual behaviour (real or on dvd/media materials). Imagine a parent or parents who have drink and drug problems and are simply too off their faces to recognise that their children are witnessing sexual behaviour within the home.
Emotional and physical abuse does not always involve an intent to harm the child. Some parents genuinely believe that their punishments and sanctions are appropriate and proportional when they are not. Some parents realise that they are not coping with how to parent and are getting out of control but actually seek help with how to discipline their children appropriately. Whilst it is what actions the parent has taken that cause the harm, its not always intentional to harm the child.
I am torn.
My mom smoked with me & my sis & i don't hold anything against her & say she abused me because of it.
I say i wish she hadn't but i am an adult now and not like i could do anything when i was a unborn child.
Abuse probably isn't the word.
It is however selfish & irresponisble for certain , no debate about that.
The babies life is your resonibility , they have zero choice in the matter.
Babies health is priority not smoking a ****.
You should be trying to quit before you try to get pregnant. Or at least cut it down. 3 **** a day is better than 40 a day for the child. Of course none is even better but i would rather a pregnant woman cut down than not at all.
I have fertility issues so of course i am fuming and upset everytime i see a pregnant woman smoking. I would never dream of smoking if i was pregnant yet they take it all for granted & happily puff away with no thought for their baby.
Not fair at all.
Having seen kids who suffer real , awful , horrible abuse I think to even mention smoking in the same catogary is plain daft
Its not quite up there in the horror as being physically mentally or sexually abused at all .
Selfish maybe and thoughtless perhaps . Abuse ? No .
I don't think it is child abuse with just tobacco. I know too many kids of women who smoked during pregnancy who were born absolutely fine with no ill effects.
But when mum smokes or ingests crack, heroin, cannabis for example during pregnancy I do consider that child abuse because the baby IS affected and when you've seen a tiny newborn going through withdrawals you'd never compare tobacco with the harder stuff.
Besides you cannot criminaise it because you cannot make one law for women without applying it to men as well and in this case you couldn't.
Of course it's abuse. Everyone knows that smoking when pregnant can lead to serious health problems for your baby. So why would any decent mother deliberately do something which they know puts their child at risk? As far as I'm concerned, any mother who smokes while pregnant doesn't deserve to have a child in the first place. Parents are supposed to put the welfare of their child first, and if a mother can't even give up smoking for 9 months and instead chooses to risk the health of her child because of her own selfish needs, then she's not fit to be a mother. There are two choices: You choose to get pregnant and make the decision to quit smoking for at least 9 months, or you don't get pregnant at all (because you know you wouldn't be able to stop smoking, and would therefore unfairly bring a child into this world knowing it may have severe health issues because of what you did.)
I'm really baffled as to why anyone in their right mind would do something which puts their child at risk, and then complain when people criticise them for it. The idea of being a parent is to protect your child from harm, not to knowingly and willingly put your child in harms way. How anyone can defend it is totally beyond me. And I say that as a smoker myself.
Of course it's abuse. Everyone knows that smoking when pregnant can lead to serious health problems for your baby. So why would any decent mother deliberately do something which they know puts their child at risk? As far as I'm concerned, any mother who smokes while pregnant doesn't deserve to have a child in the first place. Parents are supposed to put the welfare of their child first, and if a mother can't even give up smoking for 9 months and instead chooses to risk the health of her child because of her own selfish needs, then she's not fit to be a mother. There are two choices: You choose to get pregnant and make the decision to quit smoking for at least 9 months, or you don't get pregnant at all (because you know you wouldn't be able to stop smoking, and would therefore unfairly bring a child into this world knowing it may have severe health issues because of what you did.)
I'm really baffled as to why anyone in their right mind would do something which puts their child at risk, and then complain when people criticise them for it. The idea of being a parent is to protect your child from harm, not to knowingly and willingly put your child in harms way. How anyone can defend it is totally beyond me. And I say that as a smoker myself.
This ^^^^
As someone who is struggling to have a baby i can't help but feel angry. Surely a life inside them that is a gift i might add is enough to quit. Try not be able to get pregnant through just sex alone, it isn't as easy as people think.
I have a coke addiction (the drink not drugs ) and second i concieve if i ever do naturally of course i would stop straight away. It may be different to smoking but it is my own personal addiction nevertheless.
A baby would be worth more to me than having a glass of coke. I hate water but i would drink it everyday for the whole 9 months if it meant i was healthier for my child.
I may need medical intervention to have a baby - you can't smoke if you have IVF , if i was a smoker i would have no choice to quit or no baby. Yet those with the gift of fertility can get away with it and puff away.
You have to be a certain age , weight , trying for a certain length of time etc. Yet no no rules for fertile people. Sickening. People are luckier than they ever realize. They have the option of choice.
Having seen kids who suffer real , awful , horrible abuse I think to even mention smoking in the same catogary is plain daft
Its not quite up there in the horror as being physically mentally or sexually abused at all .
Selfish maybe and thoughtless perhaps . Abuse ? No .
So the odd child who has physical disabilities as a result of their smoking mother isn't suffering in any way because of their mothers selfish behaviour? My granddad stopped smoking just like that in his 50's, why can't a pregnant woman?
So the odd child who has physical disabilities as a result of their smoking mother isn't suffering in any way because of their mothers selfish behaviour? My granddad stopped smoking just like that in his 50's, why can't a pregnant woman?
Well done your grandad, there are people who can do this, some can't. A few pages back the advice given by midwives about giving up/cutting down and going cold turkey was explained.
How do you know for sure that smoking was definitely the thing which caused disability? Some people have seemingly no ill effects, so what should the people who have a disabled child blame it on if they have not smoked-ever,gave up alcohol when deciding they want a family and there is no evidence of genetic conditions in their background?
This happens, it happened to my sister, it's a common theme at the groups and hospices she attends.
I don't believe smoking when pregnant to be child abuse. The woman may well give up, will her husband?
So the odd child who has physical disabilities as a result of their smoking mother isn't suffering in any way because of their mothers selfish behaviour? My granddad stopped smoking just like that in his 50's, why can't a pregnant woman?
Because she simply does not choose to...?
People are free to accept information and either apply it to their own life or reject it.
Of course it's abuse. Everyone knows that smoking when pregnant can lead to serious health problems for your baby. So why would any decent mother deliberately do something which they know puts their child at risk? As far as I'm concerned, any mother who smokes while pregnant doesn't deserve to have a child in the first place. Parents are supposed to put the welfare of their child first, and if a mother can't even give up smoking for 9 months and instead chooses to risk the health of her child because of her own selfish needs, then she's not fit to be a mother. There are two choices: You choose to get pregnant and make the decision to quit smoking for at least 9 months, or you don't get pregnant at all (because you know you wouldn't be able to stop smoking, and would therefore unfairly bring a child into this world knowing it may have severe health issues because of what you did.)
I'm really baffled as to why anyone in their right mind would do something which puts their child at risk, and then complain when people criticise them for it. The idea of being a parent is to protect your child from harm, not to knowingly and willingly put your child in harms way. How anyone can defend it is totally beyond me. And I say that as a smoker myself.
Guess what I'm a decent mother and I smoked up until about 6 or 7 months into pregnancy number 2.
I used to look at pregnant women that smoked and judge them for it, I gave up smoking when I was pregnant with my first born the day after I peed on a stick, he was planned, very much wanted and so on and so forth.
I took up smoking again somewhere between having the 1st and getting pregnant with the 2nd due to stresses in my life, well when I feel pregnant with number 2 it was an accident, I was going to end up being a single parent to 2 children was unsure if I would cope knew I would have to have a C-section and struggle through all this on my own whilst looking after 2 children, I wasn't sure I wanted him and considered abortion, when I knew I couldn't go through with that I thought he may well have to be put up for adoption as I didn't bond with him at all whilst pregnant and believed I wouldn't be able to love him. My best friend had cancer at the time, I was a single working mum and I can assure you the stress I was under was severe there was no way I was going to be able to give up a nicotine addiction under those circumstances (and was advised not to by my midwife but to cut down if I could). What I have learnt from this is it's not my place to judge other people as I know nothing about them or what their lives are like. I am sure like me a vast percentage of them feel bad enough about not being able to quit.
Both my kids are healthy number 2 is healthier than number one and has had far less childhood illness
I'm not a decent parent I am an absolutely awesome kick ass one
So the odd child who has physical disabilities as a result of their smoking mother isn't suffering in any way because of their mothers selfish behaviour? My granddad stopped smoking just like that in his 50's, why can't a pregnant woman?
Quitting smoking is much harder then 'just like that'. Of course smoking while pregnant is incredibly irresponsible but to call it abuse is taking it way too far, especially when we do not know the women or what they are going through.
There are hundreds of women who go through infertility treatment, take supplements, go through drug treatments and would walk on hot coals to have a child....I know. Then there are those women who get pregnant and think that having a smoke is nothing much. It's insulting and the act of a stupid woman who really has no concept of how fragile a pregnancy is, how precious it is and no concept or empathy with those who wish to be their shoes.
I don't think it's abuse, just moronic act of selfish stupidity. Infertility is the number one failure of empathy (Brene Brown, 2010) and this act merely makes me realise how true that is.
What pi$$es me off even more is that smoker get help to quit on the NHS yet most PCT's have limited fertility treatment. Everyone has a choice to smoke or not but the warnings are clear. Nobody has a choice about being infertile.
I heard this discussion on the radio earlier which was really thought-provoking.
I still can't make my mind up either.
Obviously, it's stupid and selfish and you'd have to have been living under a rock in the middle of nowhere to not know how dangerous it is, but as an ex-smoker (LOVE saying that ) I know how hard it is to stop, so I'm not convinced that labelling women in this manner is going to be helpful.
There was a neonatal medic on the show and he felt strongly that SS should be called on pregnant mums-to-be who should be charged with child endangerment.
My thinking is that they're already woefully overworked and understaffed with their existing workload.
Is the criminalisation of pregnant women that smoke the way forward?
Guess what I'm a decent mother and I smoked up until about 6 or 7 months into pregnancy number 2.
I used to look at pregnant women that smoked and judge them for it, I gave up smoking when I was pregnant with my first born the day after I peed on a stick, he was planned, very much wanted and so on and so forth.
I took up smoking again somewhere between having the 1st and getting pregnant with the 2nd due to stresses in my life, well when I feel pregnant with number 2 it was an accident, I was going to end up being a single parent to 2 children was unsure if I would cope knew I would have to have a C-section and struggle through all this on my own whilst looking after 2 children, I wasn't sure I wanted him and considered abortion, when I knew I couldn't go through with that I thought he may well have to be put up for adoption as I didn't bond with him at all whilst pregnant and believed I wouldn't be able to love him. My best friend had cancer at the time, I was a single working mum and I can assure you the stress I was under was severe there was no way I was going to be able to give up a nicotine addiction under those circumstances (and was advised not to by my midwife but to cut down if I could). What I have learnt from this is it's not my place to judge other people as I know nothing about them or what their lives are like. I am sure like me a vast percentage of them feel bad enough about not being able to quit.
Both my kids are healthy number 2 is healthier than number one and has had far less childhood illness
I'm not a decent parent I am an absolutely awesome kick ass one
Good for you. I'm so tired of all this nanny state crap. There has never been a definitive study that showed the foetus suffers when mother smokes or drinks. There are always other circumstances to be factored in. Good Lord, I sometimes wonder how the increasingly large number of people in their 80s and older ever survived!
There are hundreds of women who go through infertility treatment, take supplements, go through drug treatments and would walk on hot coals to have a child....I know. Then there are those women who get pregnant and think that having a smoke is nothing much. It's insulting and the act of a stupid woman who really has no concept of how fragile a pregnancy is, how precious it is and no concept or empathy with those who wish to be their shoes.
I don't think it's abuse, just moronic act of selfish stupidity. Infertility is the number one failure of empathy (Brene Brown, 2010) and this act merely makes me realise how true that is.
What pi$$es me off even more is that smoker get help to quit on the NHS yet most PCT's have limited fertility treatment. Everyone has a choice to smoke or not but the warnings are clear. Nobody has a choice about being infertile.
You can't compare the two, smokers get help on the NHS because of the health risks associated with smoking, it is not bad for your health to be infertile.
You can't compare the two, smokers get help on the NHS because of the health risks associated with smoking, it is not bad for your health to be infertile.
Men who are infertile because of defects in their semen are also at much greater risk of dying young (Dr Michael Eisenberg). Then here is PCOS, OHSS and endless links to how infertility can affect mental health so yes, it's perfectly reasonable to compare the two.
Would anyone here be quite happy to see an adult taking deep draws of a cigarette and then going up to a child and blowing smoke straight into their faces.
I hope the answer would definately be a resounding no.
Bitterness and jealousy from infertile women towards fertile women seems to pop up on these type of threads, as per the abortion threads, as does this kind of underlying anger from some generally towards women sometimes. Being able to have a baby does not automatically make woman's life wonderful, it can actually be devastating at times and no I am not saying that means a woman would go out of her way to smoke or drink while pregnant, whether they planned to be or not.
However, comments made towards women who smoke when pregnant, should also be aimed at their smoking partners too, particularly ones about blowing smoke in a child's face.
Comments
Sexual abuse does not always involve a child involved with an actual sex act with another, sometimes it is exposing the child regularly to sexual behaviour (real or on dvd/media materials). Imagine a parent or parents who have drink and drug problems and are simply too off their faces to recognise that their children are witnessing sexual behaviour within the home.
Emotional and physical abuse does not always involve an intent to harm the child. Some parents genuinely believe that their punishments and sanctions are appropriate and proportional when they are not. Some parents realise that they are not coping with how to parent and are getting out of control but actually seek help with how to discipline their children appropriately. Whilst it is what actions the parent has taken that cause the harm, its not always intentional to harm the child.
I am torn.
My mom smoked with me & my sis & i don't hold anything against her & say she abused me because of it.
I say i wish she hadn't but i am an adult now and not like i could do anything when i was a unborn child.
Abuse probably isn't the word.
It is however selfish & irresponisble for certain , no debate about that.
The babies life is your resonibility , they have zero choice in the matter.
Babies health is priority not smoking a ****.
You should be trying to quit before you try to get pregnant. Or at least cut it down. 3 **** a day is better than 40 a day for the child. Of course none is even better but i would rather a pregnant woman cut down than not at all.
I have fertility issues so of course i am fuming and upset everytime i see a pregnant woman smoking. I would never dream of smoking if i was pregnant yet they take it all for granted & happily puff away with no thought for their baby.
Not fair at all.
Its not quite up there in the horror as being physically mentally or sexually abused at all .
Selfish maybe and thoughtless perhaps . Abuse ? No .
But when mum smokes or ingests crack, heroin, cannabis for example during pregnancy I do consider that child abuse because the baby IS affected and when you've seen a tiny newborn going through withdrawals you'd never compare tobacco with the harder stuff.
Besides you cannot criminaise it because you cannot make one law for women without applying it to men as well and in this case you couldn't.
I'm really baffled as to why anyone in their right mind would do something which puts their child at risk, and then complain when people criticise them for it. The idea of being a parent is to protect your child from harm, not to knowingly and willingly put your child in harms way. How anyone can defend it is totally beyond me. And I say that as a smoker myself.
This ^^^^
As someone who is struggling to have a baby i can't help but feel angry. Surely a life inside them that is a gift i might add is enough to quit. Try not be able to get pregnant through just sex alone, it isn't as easy as people think.
I have a coke addiction (the drink not drugs
A baby would be worth more to me than having a glass of coke. I hate water but i would drink it everyday for the whole 9 months if it meant i was healthier for my child.
I may need medical intervention to have a baby - you can't smoke if you have IVF , if i was a smoker i would have no choice to quit or no baby. Yet those with the gift of fertility can get away with it and puff away.
You have to be a certain age , weight , trying for a certain length of time etc. Yet no no rules for fertile people. Sickening. People are luckier than they ever realize. They have the option of choice.
So the odd child who has physical disabilities as a result of their smoking mother isn't suffering in any way because of their mothers selfish behaviour? My granddad stopped smoking just like that in his 50's, why can't a pregnant woman?
Well done your grandad, there are people who can do this, some can't. A few pages back the advice given by midwives about giving up/cutting down and going cold turkey was explained.
How do you know for sure that smoking was definitely the thing which caused disability? Some people have seemingly no ill effects, so what should the people who have a disabled child blame it on if they have not smoked-ever,gave up alcohol when deciding they want a family and there is no evidence of genetic conditions in their background?
This happens, it happened to my sister, it's a common theme at the groups and hospices she attends.
I don't believe smoking when pregnant to be child abuse. The woman may well give up, will her husband?
Because she simply does not choose to...?
People are free to accept information and either apply it to their own life or reject it.
Guess what I'm a decent mother and I smoked up until about 6 or 7 months into pregnancy number 2.
I used to look at pregnant women that smoked and judge them for it, I gave up smoking when I was pregnant with my first born the day after I peed on a stick, he was planned, very much wanted and so on and so forth.
I took up smoking again somewhere between having the 1st and getting pregnant with the 2nd due to stresses in my life, well when I feel pregnant with number 2 it was an accident, I was going to end up being a single parent to 2 children was unsure if I would cope knew I would have to have a C-section and struggle through all this on my own whilst looking after 2 children, I wasn't sure I wanted him and considered abortion, when I knew I couldn't go through with that I thought he may well have to be put up for adoption as I didn't bond with him at all whilst pregnant and believed I wouldn't be able to love him. My best friend had cancer at the time, I was a single working mum and I can assure you the stress I was under was severe there was no way I was going to be able to give up a nicotine addiction under those circumstances (and was advised not to by my midwife but to cut down if I could). What I have learnt from this is it's not my place to judge other people as I know nothing about them or what their lives are like. I am sure like me a vast percentage of them feel bad enough about not being able to quit.
Both my kids are healthy number 2 is healthier than number one and has had far less childhood illness
I'm not a decent parent I am an absolutely awesome kick ass one
Exactly, I agree, the midwives are obliged to give advice, but it is definitely up to the woman what she does with the advice.
Quitting smoking is much harder then 'just like that'. Of course smoking while pregnant is incredibly irresponsible but to call it abuse is taking it way too far, especially when we do not know the women or what they are going through.
There are hundreds of women who go through infertility treatment, take supplements, go through drug treatments and would walk on hot coals to have a child....I know. Then there are those women who get pregnant and think that having a smoke is nothing much. It's insulting and the act of a stupid woman who really has no concept of how fragile a pregnancy is, how precious it is and no concept or empathy with those who wish to be their shoes.
I don't think it's abuse, just moronic act of selfish stupidity. Infertility is the number one failure of empathy (Brene Brown, 2010) and this act merely makes me realise how true that is.
What pi$$es me off even more is that smoker get help to quit on the NHS yet most PCT's have limited fertility treatment. Everyone has a choice to smoke or not but the warnings are clear. Nobody has a choice about being infertile.
Good for you. I'm so tired of all this nanny state crap. There has never been a definitive study that showed the foetus suffers when mother smokes or drinks. There are always other circumstances to be factored in. Good Lord, I sometimes wonder how the increasingly large number of people in their 80s and older ever survived!
Pretty much summed up what I was going to say.
You can't compare the two, smokers get help on the NHS because of the health risks associated with smoking, it is not bad for your health to be infertile.
Well said
Men who are infertile because of defects in their semen are also at much greater risk of dying young (Dr Michael Eisenberg). Then here is PCOS, OHSS and endless links to how infertility can affect mental health so yes, it's perfectly reasonable to compare the two.
I hope the answer would definately be a resounding no.
I hope then you can see the parallel.
However, comments made towards women who smoke when pregnant, should also be aimed at their smoking partners too, particularly ones about blowing smoke in a child's face.