they're NOT consistent with their singing..although Rihanna's singing has improved possibly with some vocal training. Weirdly Katy sounds dreadful when she sings the catchy pop stuff live and great when she does the stripped back thing...You would think the catchy pop stuff is easier to sing but i guess because she started off as a 'singer/songwriter' when she was younger, its more natural for her to do that kind of stuff.
Her job isn't a 'singer'. A 'singer' stands on stage, still, and sings. She is a performer. Don't need that much hard work and talent? Are you serious? Rihannah got producers and writers at 16 and sent songs round to them until she was signed. That's HARD work and determination. Katy Perry has been dropped 3 times, and got back from it.
It is all good and well being sent to classical lessons by mummy and daddy since you were 5, but it's another thing actually pushing yourself out there, doing the right things, getting signed, making music to prove you can be signed and so on.
I find that last sentence quite offensive actually - you're implying that those who choose classical music are born with a silver spoon in their mouth. Not true, and very ill-informed I would say.
Her job is a singer though. Performing is part of it. If you took away the singing, she wouldn't have a job. Yes she has stage presence, and not everybody has that. She perhaps worked hard in getting people to notice her, going to meetings and sending off recordings, making connections etc But I'm talking about hard graft - actually putting the hours in with practice and lessons.
Even if you don't have money, you can do that. I know so many musicians who have nothing who still practice and take lessons. It's a question of priority.
And anyway, if we're talking about performing - why can't she do it to a high level. She doesn't dance a lot, in AMAS she walked around the stage. Not exactly difficult, tiring choreography. yet she still couldn't hit all the notes. Tell me where she is excelling at performing.
I'm not arguing with you about whether she's a singer or performer or whatever. My argument is that you should be able to do it well when you reach that level. And in my opinion - because she's frequently out of breath and out of tune, she doesn't do that.
Rihanna and Katy are in the same boat I think. Both are decent singers that sing amazing on the songs that are currently happening in the music industry.
They are given these songs that are made to be successful.
an example,
Leona Lewis HAD 'We Found Love' before Rihanna only it was a ballad which shows that Calvin Harris and others are indeed interested in something other than stomping dance tunes. I'm sure many including myself would find a ballad version of 'We Found Love' beautiful, especially from a vocalist like Leona but realistically would it be a chart topping song....No. It would be overlooked and many would call it a typical Leona ballad.
We can't blame Rihanna & Katy for singing songs that are successful for their time.
As for her vocal ability, Rihanna is actually amazing live for someone of her position. Katy uses auto tune a lot....even on tracks.
they're NOT consistent with their singing..although Rihanna's singing has improved possibly with some vocal training. Weirdly Katy sounds dreadful when she sings the catchy pop stuff live and great when she does the stripped back thing...You would think the catchy pop stuff is easier to sing but i guess because she started off as a 'singer/songwriter' when she was younger, its more natural for her to do that kind of stuff.
Leona Lewis HAD 'We Found Love' before Rihanna only it was a ballad which shows that Calvin Harris and others are indeed interested in something other than stomping dance tunes. I'm sure many including myself would find a ballad version of 'We Found Love' beautiful, especially from a vocalist like Leona but realistically would it be a chart topping song....No. It would be overlooked and many would call it a typical Leona ballad.
Leona's version of We Found Love was not a ballad. Calvin simply said that she sang it softly "like a ballad". It had the same production as Rihanna's version.
Speaking to Kiss FM, Calvin refuses to say which version is his favourite, but does reveal that Leona's rendition is completely different to Rihanna's dance take.
"Erm, they're very different because [Leona] sings it dead softly, you know, how Leona sings," Calvin said.
I find that last sentence quite offensive actually - you're implying that those who choose classical music are born with a silver spoon in their mouth. Not true, and very ill-informed I would say.
Her job is a singer though. Performing is part of it. If you took away the singing, she wouldn't have a job. Yes she has stage presence, and not everybody has that. She perhaps worked hard in getting people to notice her, going to meetings and sending off recordings, making connections etc But I'm talking about hard graft - actually putting the hours in with practice and lessons.
Even if you don't have money, you can do that. I know so many musicians who have nothing who still practice and take lessons. It's a question of priority.
And anyway, if we're talking about performing - why can't she do it to a high level. She doesn't dance a lot, in AMAS she walked around the stage. Not exactly difficult, tiring choreography. yet she still couldn't hit all the notes. Tell me where she is excelling at performing.
I'm not arguing with you about whether she's a singer or performer or whatever. My argument is that you should be able to do it well when you reach that level. And in my opinion - because she's frequently out of breath and out of tune, she doesn't do that.
Not at all did I imply that. I'm saying just because someone has trained every day because their parents have brought them up in that environment does not make them any more talented than the likes of Katy and Rihanna, because they would most likely be at the same standard if they had been given that many lessons and so on.
"You should be able to do it well when you reach that level" agreed. Which is why both Katy and Rihanna - now at THAT level - have improved greatly and can put on a show.
Katy does not write her own songs. Bonnie McKee is the main writer on all of her major hits bar Firework which Ester Dean wrote. Bonnie even said that she didn't want to give away Teenage Dream to Katy, but had no choice as she was broke and had to pay the bills.
Rihanna also employs Ester to write a lot of her hits. I think both girls are just the front-end of an extremely well put together business team. Rihanna has a crack team of A&Rs and scouts that find her the best songs, Katy has Dr. Luke and Bonnie McKee churning out the hit songs for her to sing, and both artists are stunningly pretty and have excellent marketing campaigns.
But I think their vocal talent is questionable. Katy sounds dreadful live, and while Rihanna is improving, she does sometimes sound lazy and drunk when singing live. But for the kind of artists they are, relying on catchy pop moments and sex appeal, I don't think it matters whether they can sing, that's just how it is, sadly.
Katy actually writes most of her songs and she even has a writing credit on Britney's new album. Also yes she is not always good live but at least she always sings live (look at Cheryl Cole). So I think she's quite talented and we already know that it's not necessary to be talented at all in order to be successful (just look at Britney's whole career.. )
Not at all did I imply that. I'm saying just because someone has trained every day because their parents have brought them up in that environment does not make them any more talented than the likes of Katy and Rihanna, because they would most likely be at the same standard if they had been given that many lessons and so on.
"You should be able to do it well when you reach that level" agreed. Which is why both Katy and Rihanna - now at THAT level - have improved greatly and can put on a show.
It doesn't necessarily make them more talented, but it does make them better. You should put in the practice hours, that's all.
Obviously their mediocrity doesn't bother you, but wouldn't you prefer it if you watched them live, or paid a lot of money to see them, that they both managed not only to sing in tune all the time (something which shouldn't be that difficult, especially with pop songs) but actually excel at what they are doing? They might have improved, but they should have been that standard when they started if not better.
Maybe this argument isn't really worth having cos I don't think we're going to see eye to eye on this. All I can say is that as a musician I find it extremely disrespectful and depressing to think that people such as Rihanna and Katy Perry are celebrated above all others when they aren't really that talented vocally.
It doesn't necessarily make them more talented, but it does make them better. You should put in the practice hours, that's all.
Obviously their mediocrity doesn't bother you, but wouldn't you prefer it if you watched them live, or paid a lot of money to see them, that they both managed not only to sing in tune all the time (something which shouldn't be that difficult, especially with pop songs) but actually excel at what they are doing? They might have improved, but they should have been that standard when they started if not better.
Maybe this argument isn't really worth having cos I don't think we're going to see eye to eye on this. All I can say is that as a musician I find it extremely disrespectful and depressing to think that people such as Rihanna and Katy Perry are celebrated above all others when they aren't really that talented vocally.
If I was going to see someone live, I would know before hand if they were known as a good singer live or not. It's quite simple really. They do put in hours of practice. It's all good and well standing there singing for 6 hours a day practising, but it's another having to improve vocals, learn dance routines etc etc etc for tours, performances and so on.
Again, they work a lot harder than the people who are forced to go to lessons all their childhood.
And as another musician, I appreciate why Rihanna and Katy are as popular as they are. If they were known for their vocals, and sounded the way they normally do on tour, I could perhaps see your point, but not a single person - including themselves - has ever made 'vocal ability' their selling point.
i think the pair of them have improved, but will never be brilliant and like others have said, at least they try to deliver live vocals. being a pop star, which ultimately they both are, isn't all about vocal ability, its more about the full package including the catchy material.
the song writing issue is a tricky one, because its fairly obvious that bonnie mckee had more to do with writing "teenage dream" than katy did judging by what bobby said. however, i also think bobby massively downplayed dr. luke, max martin and benny blanco's contribution with the same statement. i honesty dont know what's worse, someone taking a credit for changing a few words or someone taking all the credit for a song they clearly co-wrote with a team of successful long established song writers.:o
The thing is though - this is their job. If they're going to be dancing and singing - then do both well. Look at Beyonce. She is never out of tune, and she dances like a beast. if the performances are taking away from their ability to sing very basic songs in tune, then they shouldn't be dancing. They are pop singers first and foremost, yes yes i know performance is all part of it, but singing is the most important otherwise they'd all be dancers. These songs are not that difficult. They generally don't have a huge range, have repetitive melodies and if they were properly trained - they would have no problem. Classical singing is WAY more advanced and I hear recitals and opera performances all the time where they don't drop a note. I've never been able to understand why this isn't the case for pop singers?
I guess they don't practice as much and this just bemuses me. How can they stand up there in front of millions and sing out of tune? Where do they get the nerve to do that?? They're supposedly the best of their generation - or should be considering how much money they make and the kind of gigs they play, this stuff should come easily to them.
Of course everybody is human and we cant be perfect all the time, but I think it's just getting ridiculous now. Studio recordings can change the voice so much and it's allowing people to get away with so much. This would never have happened 60 years ago. You had to be as good as if not better than your recording. People just did not tolerate bad live performances.
To be fair, and I love Beyoncé, when she's dancing she's very rarely singing. She uses backing track or backing singers in the chorus of the majority of her uptempo songs.
I do agree however that singers should be able to sing
I agree about Katy Perry not being able to sing. Her voice sounds feeble in all the songs that I have had the misfortune to hear.
But I wouldn't say the same about Rihanna, total opposite in fact. I've been a fan of hers since she released her 'A Girl Like Me' album back in 2006.
Granted her music hasn't been quite up to scratch recently but the same can be said about all artists 'Michael Jackson aside'
Comments
i prefer it when she does the stripped back thing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GGJ2LStDX0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymYAPlv6B1Y
I find that last sentence quite offensive actually - you're implying that those who choose classical music are born with a silver spoon in their mouth. Not true, and very ill-informed I would say.
Her job is a singer though. Performing is part of it. If you took away the singing, she wouldn't have a job. Yes she has stage presence, and not everybody has that. She perhaps worked hard in getting people to notice her, going to meetings and sending off recordings, making connections etc But I'm talking about hard graft - actually putting the hours in with practice and lessons.
Even if you don't have money, you can do that. I know so many musicians who have nothing who still practice and take lessons. It's a question of priority.
And anyway, if we're talking about performing - why can't she do it to a high level. She doesn't dance a lot, in AMAS she walked around the stage. Not exactly difficult, tiring choreography. yet she still couldn't hit all the notes. Tell me where she is excelling at performing.
I'm not arguing with you about whether she's a singer or performer or whatever. My argument is that you should be able to do it well when you reach that level. And in my opinion - because she's frequently out of breath and out of tune, she doesn't do that.
Rihanna and Katy are in the same boat I think. Both are decent singers that sing amazing on the songs that are currently happening in the music industry.
They are given these songs that are made to be successful.
an example,
Leona Lewis HAD 'We Found Love' before Rihanna only it was a ballad which shows that Calvin Harris and others are indeed interested in something other than stomping dance tunes. I'm sure many including myself would find a ballad version of 'We Found Love' beautiful, especially from a vocalist like Leona but realistically would it be a chart topping song....No. It would be overlooked and many would call it a typical Leona ballad.
We can't blame Rihanna & Katy for singing songs that are successful for their time.
As for her vocal ability, Rihanna is actually amazing live for someone of her position. Katy uses auto tune a lot....even on tracks.
Auto tune does wonders.....if people don't notice it...I give up
Leona's version of We Found Love was not a ballad. Calvin simply said that she sang it softly "like a ballad". It had the same production as Rihanna's version.
"Erm, they're very different because [Leona] sings it dead softly, you know, how Leona sings," Calvin said.
"It's more like an X Factor ballad."
Read more at http://www.entertainmentwise.com/news/93001/Calvin-Harris-Describes-Leona-Lewis-We-Found-Love-Cover-As-An-X-Factor-Ballad#saiUGFASlZ65cjCf.99
‘I didn’t commit to it because I wanted Trouble to be my [next] single so I think that was another reason they went with Rihanna.
‘It was the same version and production but mine’s better.’
Lewis still has the tapes, but fans shouldn’t expect to find the song appearing online in the near future.
‘I’d never leak it. That’s so unprofessional,’ she said.
‘It was a bit annoying to see how big a hit it was around the world but if I’d released it maybe it wouldn’t have done as well.’
http://metro.co.uk/2012/10/14/leona-lewis-calvin-harris-replaced-me-with-rihanna-on-we-found-love-600487/
Not at all did I imply that. I'm saying just because someone has trained every day because their parents have brought them up in that environment does not make them any more talented than the likes of Katy and Rihanna, because they would most likely be at the same standard if they had been given that many lessons and so on.
"You should be able to do it well when you reach that level" agreed. Which is why both Katy and Rihanna - now at THAT level - have improved greatly and can put on a show.
Katy actually writes most of her songs and she even has a writing credit on Britney's new album. Also yes she is not always good live but at least she always sings live (look at Cheryl Cole). So I think she's quite talented and we already know that it's not necessary to be talented at all in order to be successful (just look at Britney's whole career..
It doesn't necessarily make them more talented, but it does make them better. You should put in the practice hours, that's all.
Obviously their mediocrity doesn't bother you, but wouldn't you prefer it if you watched them live, or paid a lot of money to see them, that they both managed not only to sing in tune all the time (something which shouldn't be that difficult, especially with pop songs) but actually excel at what they are doing? They might have improved, but they should have been that standard when they started if not better.
Maybe this argument isn't really worth having cos I don't think we're going to see eye to eye on this. All I can say is that as a musician I find it extremely disrespectful and depressing to think that people such as Rihanna and Katy Perry are celebrated above all others when they aren't really that talented vocally.
If I was going to see someone live, I would know before hand if they were known as a good singer live or not. It's quite simple really. They do put in hours of practice. It's all good and well standing there singing for 6 hours a day practising, but it's another having to improve vocals, learn dance routines etc etc etc for tours, performances and so on.
Again, they work a lot harder than the people who are forced to go to lessons all their childhood.
And as another musician, I appreciate why Rihanna and Katy are as popular as they are. If they were known for their vocals, and sounded the way they normally do on tour, I could perhaps see your point, but not a single person - including themselves - has ever made 'vocal ability' their selling point.
the song writing issue is a tricky one, because its fairly obvious that bonnie mckee had more to do with writing "teenage dream" than katy did judging by what bobby said. however, i also think bobby massively downplayed dr. luke, max martin and benny blanco's contribution with the same statement. i honesty dont know what's worse, someone taking a credit for changing a few words or someone taking all the credit for a song they clearly co-wrote with a team of successful long established song writers.:o
To be fair, and I love Beyoncé, when she's dancing she's very rarely singing. She uses backing track or backing singers in the chorus of the majority of her uptempo songs.
I do agree however that singers should be able to sing
was her x factor performance auto tuned
but tbf Katy and Rihanna really do need to give Beyonce's vocal coach a call or not sing such 'difficult' songs.
But I wouldn't say the same about Rihanna, total opposite in fact. I've been a fan of hers since she released her 'A Girl Like Me' album back in 2006.
Granted her music hasn't been quite up to scratch recently but the same can be said about all artists 'Michael Jackson aside'