She has cheek to try and dictate Masood's choice of partners when he and Carol had been together for a while without her interference and prejudicism. She walks back into the house, invited and expects everything to be how she wants it to be. Guess there's a reason behind her attitude though.
I would assume not. She left for Pakistan before Syed even arrived in Walford. Masood and Zainab were never really accepting of Syed's sexuality so i doubt they were broadcasting it to their even more conservative relatives in Pakistan.
I really don't see how Shabnam's remark is racist. At the best mis-informed, ill-timed and likely to offend but not racist.
Not really surprising she feels the way she does considering all her family are Muslims (and it would seem to be a very traditional type of Muslim background) and her father being in a relationship with a white woman would lets face it, to most people (most people being his own family who are the most important people) seem quite strange after being married to a Muslim woman for 25 years.
As it has been remarked already - lets face it Masood has a white girlfriend, a gay son and a gambling problem (and something else too which slips my mind for the moment).
Therefore he is far from traditional in the "traditional" sense of the word.
But I personally don't see the statement as racist or offensive, just her view / opinion of the "relationship" (which bearing in mind Carol's heart lies with David won't be for much longer anyway).
Thought immediately when I heard Shabnam talking of how much she reminded me of Zainab (Fatboy's "Shabbers" cracked me up).
It is racist because it's excluding Carol based on her skin colour but I agree with your post.
Do you not think her mum would not have told her about that. Didn't Syed always speak to her and there was a reason she could not comeback for the wedding.
When EastEnders shies away from real life issues it's berated. When it does tackle real life issues, racism exists guys, it's berated again!
There WOULD be complaints if the reverse was a white character saying somebody couldn't be with a black/asian character but no more than there is now. It's not being portrayed in a positive way - it's negative as is Shabnam's attitude. I don't see why people get so worked up..
I thought it was very realistic. I've seen people use the religion card when they've been called out for saying something inappropriate. (Zainab was a good example of this with her homophobia) Religion is a very touchy subject to tackle, I remember Corrie getting complaints when Tony Gordon insinuated that religious people are weak. EastEnders' portrayal of Muslims through the Masoods was very good under Santer but they seemed to lose their way under following producers who didn't 'get' them. Are people forgetting the controversial gay muslim story which I remember provoking a lot of debate?
It's one of the great things about soaps that they can provoke this kind of debate. (like Hayley's right to die story) It's a way of delivering an important issue to the masses. Soaps should reflect reality and racists do exist as do homophobes. I don't remember people complaining about Linda's homophobic remarks. EE has been tackling these issues since its inception. That's why we love it, it's real and gritty. We've had a watered down version for far too long. Anyone remember Ray's racist outburst which was laughable.
I like that this a different side to the usual take. DTC knows exactly what he's doing with Shabnam, I think she's set for a big journey. We're meant to dislike her, it has been said that she's going to make a lot of enemies. I can't wait to see what he has planned for her!
Racist in what context though? It's harsh view but it a true reflect of what people can think in different cultures.
She is a Muslim woman, when she arrived with her family, she was quite westernized, she had white friends aka Dawn and Carly and would go out clubbing with them etc, then she left spent time with people from her own religion and background who probably have a more one person view of things.
To me this is a much more subtle & interesting way to do a storyline that involves theses topics, compared to Corrie embarrassing race storyline.
I'm assuming what she meant was, "You can't be a woman who is not Muslim." Because most white people are traditionally known to be non-Muslims, she just referred to Carol as "white" as a way of referencing her non-Muslim status. Because in real life, race does often tend to inform what your religious beliefs are (if you're white - you're usually either Christian, Jewish or an atheist for example). It's sloppy I know. But I've heard people say this in real life in casual conversation - it's not really meant to be racist, but I can totally understand if people were offended as it is borderline. If Carol was Muslim, I think Shabnam would've been more accepting of her (albeit reluctantly) and wouldn't have said that. I think the issue is more related to religion than race.
But I'd be lying if I said, an Asian person (whether Sikh, Hindu or Muslim) wouldn't be a bit bemused if their dad hooked up with a white or black woman out of the blue without being told. But I also think that applies to black and white families too. I remember one of my white friends at school told me he hated his Asian step mother because of her Indian accent lol - he wasn't being racist, it was just a culture shock for him and took a bit of time for him getting use to the idea of his dad being with an Asian woman. Traditionally, people just like to stick their own race for this reason. I think mixed race families tend to be more open and comfortable with these things.
I think it's good that EE is discussing race in such a way as it is realistic. Ever since DTC came in charge, I've noticed he's not afraid to mention race in a conversation. Something Kirkwood and Newman were terrified to do .
Hopefully, people can see what the writers were trying to acheive with that scene. End of the day, every race is guilty of some form of prejudice against one another. I think that's what DTC is trying to show that this still very much exists in modern day life.
If Jim Branning was around imagine what he would have said to Carol about dating Masood. Its too bad he isnt around. would have been interesting to see him react to masood.
As a white woman, my first reaction to what Shabnam said is 'what?'
But hang on a minute, when Tina made a remark that could be perceived as racist to Denise, a lot of FM's on here (including me) said that it was basically just the views of an obnoxious character and not racist.
SO...can't we think the same way about Shabnam? In real life there is racism/prejucice from all sections of society and from all colours/races/religions etc., this story is obviously going somewhere so lets see the bigger picture instead.
As a white woman, my first reaction to what Shabnam said is 'what?'
But hang on a minute, when Tina made a remark that could be perceived as racist to Denise, a lot of FM's on here (including me) said that it was basically just the views of an obnoxious character and not racist.
SO...can't we think the same way about Shabnam? In real life there is racism/prejucice from all sections of society and from all colours/races/religions etc., this story is obviously going somewhere so lets see the bigger picture instead.
As a white woman, my first reaction to what Shabnam said is 'what?'
But hang on a minute, when Tina made a remark that could be perceived as racist to Denise, a lot of FM's on here (including me) said that it was basically just the views of an obnoxious character and not racist.
SO...can't we think the same way about Shabnam? In real life there is racism/prejucice from all sections of society and from all colours/races/religions etc., this story is obviously going somewhere so lets see the bigger picture instead.
Ok, before anyone says.. I'm not offended over the comment, I'm not going to ring Ofcom on speed dial and I won't have nightmares over it. But to me, the difference is that what Tina said was a 'put your foot in your mouth' comment where she said something slightly daft innocently, but Denise didn't react very well to it. What Shabnam basically said was that Carol isn't good enough for Masood because of the colour of her skin, which is seen as racism. Her comment was deliberate instead of it being an 'oops, I didn't mean it to come out that way' like Tina's was. Many people have pointed out that her views is down to the time she has spent in Pakistan where she has become more Muslim, but it's still classed as racism as it judging someone based on the colour of their skin.
If Jim Branning was around imagine what he would have said to Carol about dating Masood. Its too bad he isnt around. would have been interesting to see him react to masood.
Hadn't Jim softened by his old age though? He was friends with Patrick after all.
To be honest I've no idea, and I can usually take a guess where plotlines are going to end up.
I am hoping that these little 'offensive' episodes are just the EE scriptwriters/EP's attempts to inject a little realism into the square. I do think there is a reason that Shabnam has had somewhat of a personality change but what it is we will have to wait and see
Ok, before anyone says.. I'm not offended over the comment, I'm not going to ring Ofcom on speed dial and I won't have nightmares over it. But to me, the difference is that what Tina said was a 'put your foot in your mouth' comment where she said something slightly daft innocently, but Denise didn't react very well to it. What Shabnam basically said was that Carol isn't good enough for Masood because of the colour of her skin, which is seen as racism. Her comment was deliberate instead of it being an 'oops, I didn't mean it to come out that way' like Tina's was. Many people have pointed out that her views is down to the time she has spent in Pakistan where she has become more Muslim, but it's still classed as racism as it judging someone based on the colour of their skin.
Yes I agree, Tina's was foot in the mouth and a bit obnoxious, whereas Shabnam's comment could be taken as out and out racism. However, I think they are both examples of people speaking their minds instead of tempering what they say because it's in a soap script which is what usually happens. At the risk of repeating myself I hope the new slightly 'offensive' dialogue in EE is an attempt to inject a bit more realism into the show. After all what people say in real life isn't often very 'PC' either.
I'm Indian but not Muslim and married to a beautiful blue eyed blond hair Scottish man...we have heard many inappropriate comments directed at us from both sides. Thankfully none of those comments came from our families. People still have narrow minded opinions...sadly.
Looking at the outrage in the comments on the 'BBC Eastenders' Facebook page, you can see where the complainers can be found.. They're disgusted that the comment was even allowed to be broadcasted, totally ignoring the fact that there was a reason behind it and it's not being shown as acceptable at all. :S
Maybe that is the point, to leave it up to debate to decide if it racist or not, we've had The Carters making off hand comments about race & patriotism for example Linda said something along the lines of 'some of our best friends are black' when Nancy accused them off screen of being I assume racist
I've heard the line said before from white people so now they showing the other end of the spectrum via Shabnam's comments to show its universal topic not just one dimensional, it definitely a interesting topic to cover.
The point is it Real and Realistic something that a show based in the East End has been desperately lacking, back in the old days it was done much more truer, long before the PC Days.
Yes I agree, Tina's was foot in the mouth and a bit obnoxious, whereas Shabnam's comment could be taken as out and out racism. However, I think they are both examples of people speaking their minds instead of tempering what they say because it's in a soap script which is what usually happens. At the risk of repeating myself I hope the new slightly 'offensive' dialogue in EE is an attempt to inject a bit more realism into the show. After all what people say in real life isn't often very 'PC' either.
True, there's always a reason behind controversial comments in the scripts.
To be honest I've no idea, and I can usually take a guess where plotlines are going to end up.
I am hoping that these little 'offensive' episodes are just the EE scriptwriters/EP's attempts to inject a little realism into the square. I do think there is a reason that Shabnam has had somewhat of a personality change but what it is we will have to wait and see
Yeah, I think it's an attempt to create some discussions around the show. I'm liking it personally.
And I just noticed, I messed up the first sentence of my first post like a right plank . Apologies, if anyone misunderstood what I was saying. I meant to say, "You can't be with a woman who is not Muslim." Missed out the word in bold. Funny how one little word can alter the whole meaning of a sentence .
Comments
Does she not even know about THAT yet?
I would assume not. She left for Pakistan before Syed even arrived in Walford. Masood and Zainab were never really accepting of Syed's sexuality so i doubt they were broadcasting it to their even more conservative relatives in Pakistan.
It is racist because it's excluding Carol based on her skin colour but I agree with your post.
Do you not think her mum would not have told her about that. Didn't Syed always speak to her and there was a reason she could not comeback for the wedding.
That's the point. She left 6 years ago, so the question on our lips should be "What's happened to her?".
This, i really think this goes over people's heads at times.
That's is probs the point of her storyline to show how some young girls who go over there become that way.
It was clear this remark wasn't deemed as being fine
Good to see them showing stuff like this
And not pandering to the complainers
There WOULD be complaints if the reverse was a white character saying somebody couldn't be with a black/asian character but no more than there is now. It's not being portrayed in a positive way - it's negative as is Shabnam's attitude. I don't see why people get so worked up..
It's one of the great things about soaps that they can provoke this kind of debate. (like Hayley's right to die story) It's a way of delivering an important issue to the masses. Soaps should reflect reality and racists do exist as do homophobes. I don't remember people complaining about Linda's homophobic remarks. EE has been tackling these issues since its inception. That's why we love it, it's real and gritty. We've had a watered down version for far too long. Anyone remember Ray's racist outburst which was laughable.
I like that this a different side to the usual take. DTC knows exactly what he's doing with Shabnam, I think she's set for a big journey. We're meant to dislike her, it has been said that she's going to make a lot of enemies. I can't wait to see what he has planned for her!
She is a Muslim woman, when she arrived with her family, she was quite westernized, she had white friends aka Dawn and Carly and would go out clubbing with them etc, then she left spent time with people from her own religion and background who probably have a more one person view of things.
To me this is a much more subtle & interesting way to do a storyline that involves theses topics, compared to Corrie embarrassing race storyline.
But I'd be lying if I said, an Asian person (whether Sikh, Hindu or Muslim) wouldn't be a bit bemused if their dad hooked up with a white or black woman out of the blue without being told. But I also think that applies to black and white families too. I remember one of my white friends at school told me he hated his Asian step mother because of her Indian accent lol - he wasn't being racist, it was just a culture shock for him and took a bit of time for him getting use to the idea of his dad being with an Asian woman. Traditionally, people just like to stick their own race for this reason. I think mixed race families tend to be more open and comfortable with these things.
I think it's good that EE is discussing race in such a way as it is realistic. Ever since DTC came in charge, I've noticed he's not afraid to mention race in a conversation. Something Kirkwood and Newman were terrified to do
Hopefully, people can see what the writers were trying to acheive with that scene. End of the day, every race is guilty of some form of prejudice against one another. I think that's what DTC is trying to show that this still very much exists in modern day life.
But hang on a minute, when Tina made a remark that could be perceived as racist to Denise, a lot of FM's on here (including me) said that it was basically just the views of an obnoxious character and not racist.
SO...can't we think the same way about Shabnam? In real life there is racism/prejucice from all sections of society and from all colours/races/religions etc., this story is obviously going somewhere so lets see the bigger picture instead.
Good point, Elle!
Couldn't agree more
Where do you think this storyline could be going?
Ok, before anyone says.. I'm not offended over the comment, I'm not going to ring Ofcom on speed dial and I won't have nightmares over it. But to me, the difference is that what Tina said was a 'put your foot in your mouth' comment where she said something slightly daft innocently, but Denise didn't react very well to it. What Shabnam basically said was that Carol isn't good enough for Masood because of the colour of her skin, which is seen as racism. Her comment was deliberate instead of it being an 'oops, I didn't mean it to come out that way' like Tina's was. Many people have pointed out that her views is down to the time she has spent in Pakistan where she has become more Muslim, but it's still classed as racism as it judging someone based on the colour of their skin.
Hadn't Jim softened by his old age though? He was friends with Patrick after all.
To be honest I've no idea, and I can usually take a guess where plotlines are going to end up.
I am hoping that these little 'offensive' episodes are just the EE scriptwriters/EP's attempts to inject a little realism into the square. I do think there is a reason that Shabnam has had somewhat of a personality change but what it is we will have to wait and see
Yes I agree, Tina's was foot in the mouth and a bit obnoxious, whereas Shabnam's comment could be taken as out and out racism. However, I think they are both examples of people speaking their minds instead of tempering what they say because it's in a soap script which is what usually happens. At the risk of repeating myself I hope the new slightly 'offensive' dialogue in EE is an attempt to inject a bit more realism into the show. After all what people say in real life isn't often very 'PC' either.
I've heard the line said before from white people so now they showing the other end of the spectrum via Shabnam's comments to show its universal topic not just one dimensional, it definitely a interesting topic to cover.
The point is it Real and Realistic something that a show based in the East End has been desperately lacking, back in the old days it was done much more truer, long before the PC Days.
True, there's always a reason behind controversial comments in the scripts.
Yeah, I think it's an attempt to create some discussions around the show. I'm liking it personally.
And I just noticed, I messed up the first sentence of my first post like a right plank