What would people say about Nirvana if they were still going now?

Sifter22Sifter22 Posts: 12,054
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There seems to be this trend over the last few years to hate all an artists new material and constantly go on about their old stuff. 'I miss the old Eminem', 'What have Green Day become?' 'Wish the Arctic Monkeys would make some songs with their old sound' are comments typically seen on social media sites. (They were just a few examples).

I can never imagine Nirvana being crap. But do you think if they were still going now people would be saying similar stuff about their music? I'm trying to think if any band is immune from this kind of criticism that's still going now and making new music.
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  • mgvsmithmgvsmith Posts: 16,452
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    It's a good question as I have been reading all about Kurt and the band and listening to all the back catalogue in preparation for the imminent release of the Montage of Heck documentary. I am going to be introducing the movie in Belfast next Sunday night at the QFT.

    I've been thinking that Nirvana's music was a great paradigm changer at the time, a great yell of anger and angst at the scene of the late 80s/early 90s. There isn't much variation between the three studio albums they made and I feel they would have to have added to the sound in some way later in the 90s. I listen to the Foo Fighters and I wonder if that would have been the direction?

    Radiohead showed a similar amount of anger in their early works but 'The Bends' and 'OK Computer' have greater musical maturity and variety than 'Nevermind'. Radiohead were about as comfortable with fame as Kurt but they survived and their music has changed right through the 90s and 00s to now. I like the changes but I suspect many would agree with you and dislike the developments. I think Kurt could have learned to turn his anger into something more positive through time, rather like the transition Johnny Lydon made from the Pistols to PiL. I don't feel PiL have really suffered any real criticism in the development of their music.
  • barbelerbarbeler Posts: 23,827
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    Whatever you think, it would have little interest to most of the posters on here, who seem only interested in the latest clones to be churned out of pop's plastic printer.
  • PointyPointy Posts: 1,762
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    Even with In Utero, I clearly remember people saying 'It's no Nevermind'. They'd probably still be haunted by fans clamouring for another Nevermind, which Kurt never had the intention of repeating when alive. I can only imagine the backlash and scorn some 'fans' would have delivered if they got around to recording the acoustic/country/less rocky album Kurt talked about before he died...
  • RocketpopRocketpop Posts: 1,350
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    The easiest and therefore perhaps laziest comparison would be with Pearl Jam, the band who broke though with Nirvana to give the world the first taste of the grunge/Seattle sound. Interesting fact is that Pearl Jam at the point of Kurts tragic demise were actually the bigger band - with their second album 'Vs' doing better in both commercial and critical stakes, Pearl Jam were arguably the biggest bands on the planet at that moment.

    Pearl Jam's lead singer Eddie Vedder was labelled along with Kurt as 'the spokemen for Generation X' and neither man were comfortable with that - fame was not something either actively seeked. While Nirvana's demise came at a terrible cost, Pearl Jam survived (only just) and turned themselves into a cult band. After 'Vs' they stopped making music video's (remember how important MTV was back in the 90's) and made a couple of albums that strayed away from the commercial norm - and toured as Neil Youngs backing band, an experience that the band members have said on numerous occasions 'saved the band', Ed refers to Neil as 'Uncle Neil'. In 2015 Pearl Jam are still a huge band, who sell out tours the world over and headline festivals, their albums no longer sell in the bulk they did in their heyday, but still sell enough to be relevant - 2014's 'Lightning Bolt' topped the American charts and entered the UK charts at number 2 and they are regarded as one of the greatest live acts on the planet.

    Would Nirvana have been able to adopt the same strategy? Kurt was a junkie, something Ed never was - that would make things harder. Nirvana's sound was limited and would have dated if they'd stuck to the same formulae for another couple of albums - they would have had to evolve.
  • Jim_McIntoshJim_McIntosh Posts: 5,866
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    I can't imagine what kind of music Cobain would be making now. I don't think Nirvana would have kept going that much longer anyway. It seemed like they'd have a limited shelf life even at the time.

    I'm not sure I've heard much like them since and that's unusual for band that huge. There was something unique about that hard a band making it so big with that bare a front man. Most others have seemed a bit more polished and safer.

    The Foo Fighters progression. I could definitely see them making One By One (for the main part) as an album. Not so sure about others. It's difficult for me to imagine Cobain being so upbeat.

    Are there any more hit albums by other bands we can think of that you could imagine Nirvana making?
  • Billy HicksBilly Hicks Posts: 475
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    They'd be one of these legacy bands, releasing an album every few years that gets critically acclaimed as a "return to form" or "The best since Nevermind" but mostly ignored outside of their fanbase.

    And you can imagine several festival headlining slots with the band getting increasingly pissed off as they play their material to a load of confused teenagers waiting for Smells Like Teen Spirit.
  • Jim_McIntoshJim_McIntosh Posts: 5,866
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    This is a good article.
    http://www.avclub.com/article/foo-fighters-debut-was-a-bridge-between-nirvana-an-84294

    Them Crooked Vultures was quite Nirvana-like too. I could have seen them making those albums. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M89qz4aWbBo&list=PLcRNgRm5BYZ-3aY5RX8NzPEDWXZ7LzQ1e

    How about this with an American drawl?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjlzmPcpQpg&list=PLE72266B105AE5F9F
    Ash.

    They (Nirvana) would definitely be slated more than they are had they stuck around. Familiarity breeds contempt.
  • TheTruth1983TheTruth1983 Posts: 13,462
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    Probably "they have really lost it and they should just retire or die" or some such.
  • LMLM Posts: 63,327
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    barbeler wrote: »
    Whatever you think, it would have little interest to most of the posters on here, who seem only interested in the latest clones to be churned out of pop's plastic printer.

    Spot on
  • SoupietwistSoupietwist Posts: 1,314
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    If Kurt hadn't committed suicide and had managed to sort his life out (get of the drugs) I don't believe Nirvana would have had much more than one more album in them anyway. Dave would probably still have pretty much the same career path, albeit delayed by a couple of years, Krist the same. A Kurt solo career I can image morphing into a acoustic folky style probably with a spiky undertone.
  • Sifter22Sifter22 Posts: 12,054
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    It seems everyone is pretty much in agreement with the way it probably would have gone. If Kurt had got clean the I'm sure it would've been 'He made much better music when on drugs'. A lot of bands can never win musically and fans want it both ways.
  • my name is joemy name is joe Posts: 4,450
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    you'll always get people who think nothing compares to an artists early stuff, but they are the very people an artist needs to shed if they're going to make progress
  • EraserheadEraserhead Posts: 22,016
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    If Kurt hadn't committed suicide and had managed to sort his life out (get of the drugs) I don't believe Nirvana would have had much more than one more album in them anyway. Dave would probably still have pretty much the same career path, albeit delayed by a couple of years, Krist the same. A Kurt solo career I can image morphing into a acoustic folky style probably with a spiky undertone.

    I agree. I think if Kurt had lived the band probably would have imploded after maybe one more album, Grohl would form the Foo fighters anyway and Kurt might have done some toned-down solo stuff, or heaven forbid maybe done a John and Yoko and released some albums with Courteney.

    And when the money dried up they'd get back together for a few reunion tours as they're still the best way for bands to earn money.
  • mgvsmithmgvsmith Posts: 16,452
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    Sifter22 wrote: »
    It seems everyone is pretty much in agreement with the way it probably would have gone. If Kurt had got clean the I'm sure it would've been 'He made much better music when on drugs'. A lot of bands can never win musically and fans want it both ways.

    And so is it better then in artistic terms that Kurt is gone? As he lives on not only in the music he left us but in the mythology and mystery that surrounds him. I've just watched the preview of the 'Montage of Heck' documentary and it uses a lot of the Cobain Journals supplemented with home video and animation. It does nothing to diminish the legend.
  • Sifter22Sifter22 Posts: 12,054
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    mgvsmith wrote: »
    And so is it better then in artistic terms that Kurt is gone? As he lives on not only in the music he left us but in the mythology and mystery that surrounds him. I've just watched the preview of the 'Montage of Heck' documentary and it uses a lot of the Cobain Journals supplemented with home video and animation. It does nothing to diminish the legend.

    We'll never know. But I think whatever he did musically would have had dividing opinions the same as other long term bands seem to get now about their later albums. I doubt Nirvana would have been immune from that.
  • HitstasticHitstastic Posts: 8,596
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    "Just heard the new Nirvana single, not what I expected at all. WTF is Pitbull rapping about in the middle 8?".

    Perhaps? :D
  • AsarualimAsarualim Posts: 3,884
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    I think had Kurt lived Nirvana would have split and he'd have teamed up with Courtney Love and they'd have become a Carpenters tribute act. Probably.... or maybe not. :)
  • HitstasticHitstastic Posts: 8,596
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    If Nirvana were still going there may have never been a Foo Fighters so in a way, I'm happy with how things turned out from a music perspective. Although there may be Nirvana fans that despise everything Foo Fighters have released over the years.
  • robborocksrobborocks Posts: 2,728
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    Think they would've been hugely different, he was incredibly creative and would not be micro managed like a lot are today.

    If Courtney hadn't arranged for him to be killed I'm sure he would've done a lot more.
  • montyburns56montyburns56 Posts: 2,011
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    "Why did they do that advert for Pizza Express" :D
  • Heathyheath_Heathyheath_ Posts: 986
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    I think that Nirvana were the kind of band who had a short shelf life, if hypothetically Kurt was still the same person but just never ended his life I think after an album or two more he'd have left, remained friends with the other two guys and did some solo acoustic music which wasn't commercially appealing but a lot more appealing for Kurt. The Unplugged session Nirvana did also suggests such a solo career would have been extremely good as well
  • Grim FandangoGrim Fandango Posts: 4,038
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    I think that Nirvana were the kind of band who had a short shelf life, if hypothetically Kurt was still the same person but just never ended his life I think after an album or two more he'd have left, remained friends with the other two guys and did some solo acoustic music which wasn't commercially appealing but a lot more appealing for Kurt. The Unplugged session Nirvana did also suggests such a solo career would have been extremely good as well

    That's how I see it too. I think he would have pushed to do some experimental things with Nirvana, but ultimately due to label/fan pressures he would have probably just gone his own way. As you say, the unplugged set suggests a more acoustic based sound would have been fantastic.

    Saw the trailer for the film at the cinema last night. I really liked the title 'Montage of Heck'. Shame they had to whack COBAIN in there ahead of it. The animation also looks a bit corny. I'm torn whether to go see it, I went through my Nirvana phase a few years back and now just think I'd find it desperately sad more than anything.
  • mgvsmithmgvsmith Posts: 16,452
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    That's how I see it too. I think he would have pushed to do some experimental things with Nirvana, but ultimately due to label/fan pressures he would have probably just gone his own way. As you say, the unplugged set suggests a more acoustic based sound would have been fantastic.

    Saw the trailer for the film at the cinema last night. I really liked the title 'Montage of Heck'. Shame they had to whack COBAIN in there ahead of it. The animation also looks a bit corny. I'm torn whether to go see it, I went through my Nirvana phase a few years back and now just think I'd find it desperately sad more than anything.

    The animation works pretty well, it isn't corny and is used sparingly to fill in parts of the story which just couldn't be filmed or included any other way. It is a sad film but it may help to reconnect with the anger that was Nirvana. There's very little like it these days.

    I like the unplugged stuff. I imagine Kurt might have gone on like Thom Yorke and did some experimental solo stuff and Nirvana might have reformed on an on off basis.
  • Grim FandangoGrim Fandango Posts: 4,038
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    mgvsmith wrote: »
    The animation works pretty well

    Fair play. It's more a personal dislike I have for that kind of thing. Always find it a bit distracting and i've rarely warmed to animation in general (although i love the Miyazaki stuff).
  • ÆnimaÆnima Posts: 38,548
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    Reminds me of a Family Guy episode where Stewie goes back in time and gives Kurt some icecream so he doesn't kill himself. It then goes back to the present and there's an album cover with just Kurt on it with a massive beer belly :D
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