Those calling it The Clara show

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  • Chester666666Chester666666 Posts: 9,020
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    It's always been through the companion though that the audience meets the Doc and experience his travels IN the TARDIS
  • doctor blue boxdoctor blue box Posts: 7,243
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    It's always been through the companion though that the audience meets the Doc and experience his travels IN the TARDIS
    Yes, but we are supposed to be seeing the wonder of the doctor and his amazing life through their eyes not over focusing on the companion character themselves. Obviously the companion needs a personality and good enough quality for the doctor to want them in the first place, and there needs to be scenes where they continue to show their worth, but however anyone spins it, for me the companion's main job is supposed to be letting us interact with the doctor through their eyes and asking the questions to things he would otherwise have no reason to explain. He is the focus, they are the one's lucky enough to get a glimpse of his life for however long they stay with him.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,129
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    Don't even know where to start. During rose's time she was opinionated and gutsy but both her doctors always seemed to have authority over her and were both undoubtedly the brain's of the two and the star's of the show.

    Season 1 seemed to be full of Rose getting the Dr out of scrapes.

    In all the New Who the companions have been more pro-active - otherwise there would be complaints of sexism that the women are just stupid screamy girls getting into problems so the Dr can come and save them.

    It's not going to change now as it would be seen as 'un-PC' and forums would be full of complaints about the typical depiction of helpless girls.
  • Mystical123Mystical123 Posts: 15,811
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    I shudder to think what the show as it currently is would be like without Clara - Jenna is basically single-handedly carrying the show for me at the minute, her acting is superb and her character consistent, unlike Capaldi's Doctor, who is still jarring.
  • CravenHavenCravenHaven Posts: 13,953
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    IJenna is basically single-handedly carrying the show for me at the minute.
    Yes. YES. YES!
  • JAS84JAS84 Posts: 7,430
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    Ace and the 7th? Ghost light, curse of fenric and survival were what we would now call companion arc stories and if the show hadn't been cancelled we would have seen the doctor preparing ace to join the prydonian academy to become a Time Lord
    While Ace was definitely a more modern companion like the post-2005 ones, she came too late to save the show. Frankly it was already doomed when Sylvester McCoy joined the show - because they were scheduling it against Coronation Street.
  • donovan5donovan5 Posts: 1,023
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    Don't really see the "Clara Show" thing my self.She hasn't been shoved in our face anywhere near as much as Rose was.
    And the fact she has an on going life away from the Doctor means we could see an episode or two where she plays no part.
  • StrakerStraker Posts: 79,567
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    Tony Tiger wrote: »
    Ew, what is wrong with this guy? The clue to who the main character is supposed to be is in the title fgs.

    A memo that both he and RTD seemed to have missed out on. Hilarious that they both claim to be Dr Who fanboys from when they were....er..boys and yet they`re both smitten with young girls to the detriment of what the show is about for most of us - The Doctor. I swear, I think Moffat is more interested in Jenna`s wardrobe than he is the plots for the show. That and he loves to see his name in print. If he wasn`t involved in the show I`d have written him off as a troll by now!! :D
  • saladfingers81saladfingers81 Posts: 11,301
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    People have short memories. Not just Rose. What about Donna? It was constant Donna throughout S4. Donna this. Donna that. Doctor/Donna. She saved the universe. Again. Donna. Donna. Donna. Boring.
  • MinkytheDogMinkytheDog Posts: 5,658
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    This must be the only place on Earth where someone would criticise Russell T Davies for being "smitten with young girls" - unless you meant in literally and they were being used as clubs.
  • MulettMulett Posts: 9,055
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    For me, when the show is working well, it is more about the companion than the Doctor. The companion is us (the viewer) so we are experiencing it all through their eyes.

    I certainly think that was the case with Rose, Martha and Donna.

    It wasn't the case with Amy because there was a million tonnes of crazy front-loaded onto her story - so we ended up seeing things more through the Doctor's eyes, as he tried to work out her story and all the mysteries around her.

    And that was the case, originally, with Clara too. But thankfully all that 'impossible girl' nonsense is gone and she's moved into the role I personally feel more comfortable with. She's the human one, the sane one, the one we identify with and experience these mad adventures through. So it is a little bit more about her story.

    And the Doctor is back to being the madman who's stolen her away.

    As a result, I have to admit, I am enjoying Clara much more as a character.
  • MinkytheDogMinkytheDog Posts: 5,658
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    Mulett wrote: »
    For me...

    Pretty much sums it up for me as well - companions are generally our entry point into the Doctor's life and I like it that way.

    Just one addition - maybe one or two Doctor-only stories per series would be worth considering - Midnight was a brilliant episode and really only worked cos there wasn't a companion to back him up when the others turned.
  • jtnorthjtnorth Posts: 5,081
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    It can be a partnership. It doesn't have to be one or the other. I think when it's working well, they balance - the human and the alien. The show is constantly telling us the Doctor needs someone to keep him grounded.

    Main character can mean more than one thing - it can mean the person you see the story through, the character who knows about as much as the viewer, the viewpoint. And it can mean the person who makes the story happen, particularly the character who makes the ending happen - the one who defeats the enemy, solves the puzzle, does the key thing that brings about the ending. I think of it as being the companion who is the viewpoint and mostly but not always the Doctor is the one who solves the problem. Sorry if that's a very obvious thing to say but I can't think how to make my point any other way.

    Of course we're all going to disagree about which partnerships worked best. For me Moffat tries too hard so that Clara has more 'banter' than believable dialogue and is still not a believable person (and a bit annoying). Just my view. But in terms of 'The Clara show' I think the difference might be not so much what you think of series 8 Clara as what you think of 12. A strong companion with a strong dynamic problem-solving Doctor is one thing. But a strong dynamic problem-solving companion with a Doctor who is paranoid, fragile and where the show wants to make you ambivalent whether he's saving anyone or not, which is how he seems to me so far, is another - I think it feels like the Clara show, if it does, because 12 is at yet quite a weak character and so Clara looks too strong in comparison. If they want to show a Doctor who can't shoot an arrow on his own and is afraid of the dark, then the assistant has to be the problem solver and more dynamic one, if only by default.

    People who feel 12 is a strong dynamic Doctor already will obviously feel quite differently about Clara as well.

    eta: I'm not saying 12 is a weak character as a criticism - that seems to me to be the writers' intent and no doubt we're going to see why as the series goes on, I'm not suggesting they're doing something wrong.
  • MinkytheDogMinkytheDog Posts: 5,658
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    jtnorth wrote: »
    eta: I'm not saying 12 is a weak character as a criticism - that seems to me to be the writers' intent and no doubt we're going to see why as the series goes on, I'm not suggesting they're doing something wrong.

    I think you are spot-on there - he may have said a couple of sarcastic comments but he's really just dithering and following instead of leading and if that's NOT a major plot-line, it's worrying.

    As I see it, Clara hasn't become more bossy - the Doctor has regenerated into a rabbit and is simply pale at the side of her.
  • sandydunesandydune Posts: 10,986
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    How can the show be called The Clara Show when the show is by another name:confused:
  • MinkytheDogMinkytheDog Posts: 5,658
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    sandydune wrote: »
    How can the show be called The Clara Show when the show is by another name:confused:

    OMG - it's so obvious.

    Remember when the Doctor and Robin Hood were arguing about being "fictional characters"? Well, it's obvious that the Doctor is real and we only THINK he's fictional cos that's what the BBC have told us in order to hide the truth - in the same way that the CIA created X-Files on TV to con us into thinking that aliens were just fantasy.

    So when the GI entered the Doctor's timestream, one of the things he changed meant that the TV show - "Doctor Who" - was never created and Clara had to create "The Clara Show" as part of her efforts to undo the damage.

    Don't you see what this means?

    All the people who say they are watching "The Clara Show" are actually communicating with us from another reality.

    Keep reading - if they start saying that X-Factor is brilliant, we'll know they're not from this reality.
  • sandydunesandydune Posts: 10,986
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    OMG - it's so obvious.
    Hey Minky, lol.:D
  • StrakerStraker Posts: 79,567
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    Pretty much sums it up for me as well - companions are generally our entry point into the Doctor's life and I like it that way.

    "Entry point"? Is this a brand new show that people need to be led by the hand to in case the brand-new-never-before-seen character of this Time Lord confuses them? You`re just parroting some BBC blather or something you read that a journo said. We don`t need an "entry point" so we don`t need an over-developed companion who brings nothing other than soap to the show. It`s The Doctor we tune in for not some boggle-eyed female mooning over an ex-soldier already saying she loves him after a few weeks of screen time.
    This must be the only place on Earth where someone would criticise Russell T Davies for being "smitten with young girls"....

    In terms of story he was and so is Moffat.

    Anyone else feel like this week`s story was just background to The Clara and Danny Show?
  • lady_xanaxlady_xanax Posts: 5,662
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    I agree with the situation more being the case that Capaldi has been made to portray the Doctor as doddery and grumpy, somebody who Clara puts up with. It doesn't help that we've met loads of young characters either.

    The Doctor's admirable qualities aren't showing at the moment but this isn't a good thing.
  • Chester666666Chester666666 Posts: 9,020
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    Straker wrote: »
    "Entry point"? Is this a brand new show that people need to be led by the hand to in case the brand-new-never-before-seen character of this Time Lord confuses them? You`re just parroting some BBC blather or something you read that a journo said. We don`t need an "entry point" so we don`t need an over-developed companion who brings nothing other than soap to the show. It`s The Doctor we tune in for not some boggle-eyed female mooning over an ex-soldier already saying she loves him after a few weeks of screen time.



    In terms of story he was and so is Moffat.

    Anyone else feel like this week`s story was just background to The Clara and Danny Show?
    Even the people writing the blurb support that as the threat wasn't as important as Clara introducing Danny to the Doctor
    The alien was crap and more time was about stupid Clara
  • johnnysaucepnjohnnysaucepn Posts: 6,775
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    Straker wrote: »
    "Entry point"? Is this a brand new show that people need to be led by the hand to in case the brand-new-never-before-seen character of this Time Lord confuses them? You`re just parroting some BBC blather or something you read that a journo said. We don`t need an "entry point" so we don`t need an over-developed companion who brings nothing other than soap to the show. It`s The Doctor we tune in for not some boggle-eyed female mooning over an ex-soldier already saying she loves him after a few weeks of screen time.

    Entry point to the narrative, our way into to this less-approachable Doctor.

    12 is far from weak - if anything, he seems far more competent and practical than his predecessors. In The Caretaker, he was quite happy to get on with his work whether Clara was there or not. He had his plan, and he was following it through.

    Which is exactly why Clara has to push through that and boss him around - because he's completely the opposite of weak-willed and needs Clara to puncture that and make him consider his actions in a wider context. If he's the authority figure that he appears to be, he doesn't need a follower telling him he's great and trusting him implicitly (like Amy was to Eleven), but an adviser that will make him question his actions.
  • StrakerStraker Posts: 79,567
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    Entry point to the narrative, our way into to this less-approachable Doctor.

    Not needed. Just because he`s a bit more sarky than the Fez-botherer doesn`t mean the audience needs the distraction of a soap-based plot via an existing, bridging companion while they get used to the accent and some grey hair.

    "Entry point to the narrative" - What nonsense.
  • johnnysaucepnjohnnysaucepn Posts: 6,775
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    Straker wrote: »
    Not needed. Just because he`s a bit more sarky than the Fez-botherer doesn`t mean the audience needs the distraction of a soap-based plot via an existing, bridging companion while they get used to the accent and some grey hair.

    "Entry point to the narrative" - What nonsense.

    That's not what I mean. Either an external plot point drives the story, or one of our characters does. External device usually means a "getting a distress call" or "being dragged off course accidentally" start to a story - used to death.

    If you want to keep the Doctor at arm's length and alien, then you have two character options - making him drive the plot but have the companion ask questions and draw out plot elements to bring the viewer in, or have the companion's life drive the story.
  • StrakerStraker Posts: 79,567
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    If you want to keep the Doctor at arm's length and alien, then you have two character options - making him drive the plot but have the companion ask questions and draw out plot elements to bring the viewer in, or have the companion's life drive the story.

    The boilerplate for the Classic series, one which has been subsumed under a thick layer of soap during RTD and The Moff`s Reign. It presupposes both that we`re unable to engage in the story unless some lovesick woman is in the frame and that we`re unable to tolerate 45 minutes of aliens and monsters unless it`s leavened by scenes of domestic tedium. When you really think about it, it`s quite insulting to the audience.

    Was hoping Capaldi would have the clout and desire to reduce this Eastenders-type shite to the absolute minimum but it seems I was wrong.
  • Shawn_LunnShawn_Lunn Posts: 9,353
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    It's not the Clara show but I'm glad that she does actually get y'know screentime and stuff.
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