Well if it were part of a project the subject is usually set by, or at least suggested by, the teachers rather than the pupils.
The subject is set but the messages vary. Think back to when you were at school and the projects where you made posters and the like. Not everyone did the same thing. Everyone takes something slightly different from the text but ultimately it's a positive one
A poster with the words "Gay is good", which someone just happened to have in assembly, would seem to be an extremely unlikely subject for 10 year old children to produce without any outside influence.
Well given they'd just had a lesson using the book about the picnic, and they were given time to discuss and ruminate, it doesn't seem unlikely at all.
I speak as someone who has delivered workshops to young kids, and you seem to speak as someone who is just making shit up...of course I accept I could be wrong, but I haven't seen anything on this thread to convince me otherwise..
"It seems to me he is trying to silence that sector by accusing anyone who disagrees with him of being homophobic and that makes me wonder just how committed he can be to allowing the kids to express themselves freely if he counters any views he doesn't like with those kinds of tactics. "
Maybe some would have done but they would not be listened to as he would have done less to be criticised for. There are bigots in this world. You don't need to look for opportunities to stir them up or search for battles and coming out in assembly accompanied by a POSTER sure looks as if you want to make a big deal out of it.
And no I don't think teachers should be closeted. Why not just go about his life like everyone else and people find out your sexuality naturally - when they meet your partner or you mention them in conversation, or mention what us going in in your life such as marriage etc. then he could have been a positive example of gay people being just like everyone else fir those children that didn't know anyone gay.
So you'd rather kids don't get told about gay people until they are adults? How is he going to introduce the kids to his partner in school? It's not show and tell! lol
In what circumstances is he going to be able to do what you say? Why is it a problem to just come out and say it?
Maybe some would have done but they would not be listened to as he would have done less to be criticised for. There are bigots in this world. You don't need to look for opportunities to stir them up or search for battles and coming out in assembly accompanied by a POSTER sure looks as if you want to make a big deal out of it.
And no I don't think teachers should be closeted. Why not just go about his life like everyone else and people find out your sexuality naturally - when they meet your partner or you mention them in conversation, or mention what us going in in your life such as marriage etc. then he could have been a positive example of gay people being just like everyone else fir those children that didn't know anyone gay.
Again, there's no proof the parents complaints were upheld, by your logic then those views would be bigoted. There's no indication that he faced any disciplinary action.
It's a shame he felt the need to resign, as I keep saying, but if it's because the parents are basically saying "Being gay is not okay, therefore YOU are not okay" then I can see why he did.
Maybe some would have done but they would not be listened to as he would have done less to be criticised for. There are bigots in this world. You don't need to look for opportunities to stir them up or search for battles and coming out in assembly accompanied by a POSTER sure looks as if you want to make a big deal out of it.
And no I don't think teachers should be closeted. Why not just go about his life like everyone else and people find out your sexuality naturally - when they meet your partner or you mention them in conversation, or mention what us going in in your life such as marriage etc. then he could have been a positive example of gay people being just like everyone else fir those children that didn't know anyone gay.
That's all fine and well, but how do you tackle the fact that even in primary school most playground insults are LGBT based?
I see you've gone full circle to the 'just let kids fight it out between them' approach again.
I think you must have me confused with another poster or assuming again. I was the one who supported teachers dealing with bullying and equality issues but who thinks it shouldn't tip over into intolerance or propaganda rather than open debate and interaction with parents.
. Not sure that's a good thing, but I do have the fond memory of asking my teacher to explain some of the words from Lady Chatterley's Lover when I was ten!
One of my finest memories is a teacher giving me a copy of Brave New World to keep when i was 11.
I read LCL a couple of years after that, what a disappointment.
I think you must have me confused with another poster or assuming again. I was the one who supported teachers dealing with bullying and equality issues but who thinks it shouldn't tip over into intolerance or propaganda rather than open debate and interaction with parents.
Aren't you the poster that has spent most of their time making things up? Putting your own spin on the situation and ignoring the lesson plan and info that Jeseya has put up. Everything that negates what you are trying to convey.
How is teaching equality tipping over into intolerance. The intolerance was from the parents. The lessons weren't propaganda the way you are suggesting. They were approved by all the relevant people who deal with the curriculum and education.
That's all fine and well, but how do you tackle the fact that even in primary school most playground insults are LGBT based?
You ban the use of such language and explain to the kids why. You discuss bullying and how it would make them feel if people constantly said negative things about them. You also discuss it when it comes up in literature as a theme.
But you don't pack the reading with moral issues in order to constantly go on about if because that makes reading lessons a chore after a time. And literacy lessons should be about children enjoying reading.
One of my finest memories is a teacher giving me a copy of Brave New World to keep when i was 11.
I read LCL a couple of years after that, what a disappointment.
Indeed, a rubbish novel - terribly self-indulgent. My parents had an 'open policy' when it came to books... if it was on the shelf, I could read it. Normally I asked them if I didn't understand something but I had taken it to class so I had something to do.
Brave New World is a fabulous book though - especially for teenagers. Lots to discuss in it and some fascinating concepts.
You ban the use of such language and explain to the kids why. You discuss bullying and how it would make them feel if people constantly said negative things about them. You also discuss it when it comes up in literature as a theme.
But you don't pack the reading with moral issues in order to constantly go on about if because that makes reading lessons a chore after a time. And literacy lessons should be about children enjoying reading.
What part of Curriculum do you not get? What part of curriculum approved do you not get? Do you understand the concept of guidelines?
You ban the use of such language and explain to the kids why. You discuss bullying and how it would make them feel if people constantly said negative things about them. You also discuss it when it comes up in literature as a theme.
But you don't pack the reading with moral issues in order to constantly go on about if because that makes reading lessons a chore after a time. And literacy lessons should be about children enjoying reading.
I suspect this is why you aren't in the teaching profession or involved in anti-bullying campaigns, because what you say wouldn't be the most effective, whereas initiatives like this are shown to work, even in older kids/teens!
I think you must have me confused with another poster or assuming again. I was the one who supported teachers dealing with bullying and equality issues but who thinks it shouldn't tip over into intolerance or propaganda rather than open debate and interaction with parents.
Apart from when the intolerance comes from the parents, of course.
You ban the use of such language and explain to the kids why. You discuss bullying and how it would make them feel if people constantly said negative things about them. You also discuss it when it comes up in literature as a theme.
But you don't pack the reading with moral issues in order to constantly go on about if because that makes reading lessons a chore after a time. And literacy lessons should be about children enjoying reading.
One of the Ofsted requirements is that children learn to love reading. These books, written by established and award-winning children's authors; and the lesson plans.. shown to be best practice by Ofsted, meet that requirement.
Taking the example used in the newspaper report - the lesson plan calls for the children to read the book about a picnic and then hold a picnic in class where they share fruit and biscuits and talk about why it is good everyone gets to be invited. Can you tell me the part of that which would stop a child enjoying the book?
Indeed, a rubbish novel - terribly self-indulgent. My parents had an 'open policy' when it came to books... if it was on the shelf, I could read it. Normally I asked them if I didn't understand something but I had taken it to class so I had something to do.
Brave New World is a fabulous book though - especially for teenagers. Lots to discuss in it and some fascinating concepts.
I agree totally. BNW is still one of my favourite books, and I grew up to love the whole concept of a dystopian future. I think it's thanks to that book, and that love of the ideas, that I think very hard on certain issues.
So you'd rather kids don't get told about gay people until they are adults? How is he going to introduce the kids to his partner in school? It's not show and tell! lol
You are fabricating opinions now. How can you say in two adjacent sentences that I advocate kids meeting gay people in the normal course of events and that I suggest they are not told about gayness until they are adults?
I met teachers partners when they picked up people from school. When discussing what we did for holidays, when they brought in their kids or showed wedding photos. All the normal stages of life people discuss in schools and later the workplace. None of them made an announcement of being gay or straight in assembly. Why?
You are fabricating opinions now. How can you say in two adjacent sentences that I advocate kids meeting gay people in the normal course of events and that I suggest they are not told about gayness until they are adults?
I met teachers partners when they picked up people from school. When discussing what we did for holidays, when they brought in their kids or showed wedding photos. All the normal stages of life people discuss in schools and later the workplace. None of them made an announcement of being gay or straight in assembly. Why?
The irony of accusing me of fabrication.
Many of the normal stages of life have until recent years been denied to gay people. Section 28 don't forget also stopped ANY discussion of gay people so how would one go about doing such things without possibly being accused of something else?
Apart from when the intolerance comes from the parents, of course.
When parents are intolerant they should be engaged with and told their behaviour us unacceptable. The school should answer complaints and try to reach a compromise but should back up the teacher where an intolerant group seeks to hound them out.
What I object to is the assumption that any one who criticises a teacher is intolerant. I see plenty of room here where thus particular teacher may have courted controversy. I think it could be either/or in this situation as outlined so far. Ie some bigots and an intolerant teacher unwilling to listen to criticism and tone done the rhetoric.
One of the Ofsted requirements is that children learn to love reading. These books, written by established and award-winning children's authors; and the lesson plans.. shown to be best practice by Ofsted, meet that requirement.
Taking the example used in the newspaper report - the lesson plan calls for the children to read the book about a picnic and then hold a picnic in class where they share fruit and biscuits and talk about why it is good everyone gets to be invited. Can you tell me the part of that which would stop a child enjoying the book?
I don't have a problem with that at all.
As long as they are able to discuss in equal measure why it is bad that everybody gets to be invited.
From the links you provided I don't see any references to having equal discussion.
I agree totally. BNW is still one of my favourite books, and I grew up to love the whole concept of a dystopian future. I think it's thanks to that book, and that love of the ideas, that I think very hard on certain issues.
I have a short list of books I read as a child that made me think very hard as well - BNW for sure... To Kill A Mockingbird; Tobacco Road, Middlemarch, The Grapes of Wrath, Bleak House, Gone with the Wind, The Brothers Karamazov, A Passage to India, The Magic Mountain, 1984 and my very favourite, Jane Eyre. They were all great stories but the messages they carried have stayed with me!
Section 28 don't forget also stopped ANY discussion of gay people.
No it didn't. It banned the promotion of homosexuality. That was wrong but it didn't ban gay people from teaching or say they has to be closeted. That is a fabrication.
No it didn't. It banned the promotion of homosexuality. That was wrong but it didn't ban gay people from teaching or say they has to be closeted. That is a fabrication.
As someone who was in a LTR with a teacher, you didn't discuss or let on. No it didn't ban gay teachers, I never said it did, I was talking about mentioning or discussing things in front of children.
I see you have learnt a new word though... Fabrication. Good for you, Gold star. Now remember that next time you post something
As long as they are able to discuss in equal measure why it is bad that everybody gets to be invited.
From the links you provided I don't see any references to having equal discussion.
Why on earth would you want children to discuss why it is bad to invite people because they are of a different sexuality, ethnic origin; ability; physical appearance or religion etc? What on earth good would that do? You might discuss why some people thought it bad as part of the discussion and there is nothing in that lesson plan to say you should not. The Ofsted requirement is to teach about inclusion and why that is a good thing... and that is what the lesson plan does.
Comments
The subject is set but the messages vary. Think back to when you were at school and the projects where you made posters and the like. Not everyone did the same thing. Everyone takes something slightly different from the text but ultimately it's a positive one
Well given they'd just had a lesson using the book about the picnic, and they were given time to discuss and ruminate, it doesn't seem unlikely at all.
I speak as someone who has delivered workshops to young kids, and you seem to speak as someone who is just making shit up...of course I accept I could be wrong, but I haven't seen anything on this thread to convince me otherwise..
So you'd rather kids don't get told about gay people until they are adults? How is he going to introduce the kids to his partner in school? It's not show and tell! lol
In what circumstances is he going to be able to do what you say? Why is it a problem to just come out and say it?
Again, there's no proof the parents complaints were upheld, by your logic then those views would be bigoted. There's no indication that he faced any disciplinary action.
It's a shame he felt the need to resign, as I keep saying, but if it's because the parents are basically saying "Being gay is not okay, therefore YOU are not okay" then I can see why he did.
That's all fine and well, but how do you tackle the fact that even in primary school most playground insults are LGBT based?
I think you must have me confused with another poster or assuming again. I was the one who supported teachers dealing with bullying and equality issues but who thinks it shouldn't tip over into intolerance or propaganda rather than open debate and interaction with parents.
One of my finest memories is a teacher giving me a copy of Brave New World to keep when i was 11.
I read LCL a couple of years after that, what a disappointment.
Aren't you the poster that has spent most of their time making things up? Putting your own spin on the situation and ignoring the lesson plan and info that Jeseya has put up. Everything that negates what you are trying to convey.
How is teaching equality tipping over into intolerance. The intolerance was from the parents. The lessons weren't propaganda the way you are suggesting. They were approved by all the relevant people who deal with the curriculum and education.
You ban the use of such language and explain to the kids why. You discuss bullying and how it would make them feel if people constantly said negative things about them. You also discuss it when it comes up in literature as a theme.
But you don't pack the reading with moral issues in order to constantly go on about if because that makes reading lessons a chore after a time. And literacy lessons should be about children enjoying reading.
Indeed, a rubbish novel - terribly self-indulgent. My parents had an 'open policy' when it came to books... if it was on the shelf, I could read it. Normally I asked them if I didn't understand something but I had taken it to class so I had something to do.
Brave New World is a fabulous book though - especially for teenagers. Lots to discuss in it and some fascinating concepts.
What part of Curriculum do you not get? What part of curriculum approved do you not get? Do you understand the concept of guidelines?
I suspect this is why you aren't in the teaching profession or involved in anti-bullying campaigns, because what you say wouldn't be the most effective, whereas initiatives like this are shown to work, even in older kids/teens!
Additionally, it's part of the curriculum.
Apart from when the intolerance comes from the parents, of course.
One of the Ofsted requirements is that children learn to love reading. These books, written by established and award-winning children's authors; and the lesson plans.. shown to be best practice by Ofsted, meet that requirement.
Taking the example used in the newspaper report - the lesson plan calls for the children to read the book about a picnic and then hold a picnic in class where they share fruit and biscuits and talk about why it is good everyone gets to be invited. Can you tell me the part of that which would stop a child enjoying the book?
I agree totally. BNW is still one of my favourite books, and I grew up to love the whole concept of a dystopian future. I think it's thanks to that book, and that love of the ideas, that I think very hard on certain issues.
I met teachers partners when they picked up people from school. When discussing what we did for holidays, when they brought in their kids or showed wedding photos. All the normal stages of life people discuss in schools and later the workplace. None of them made an announcement of being gay or straight in assembly. Why?
The irony of accusing me of fabrication.
Many of the normal stages of life have until recent years been denied to gay people. Section 28 don't forget also stopped ANY discussion of gay people so how would one go about doing such things without possibly being accused of something else?
GAYNESS? It's called homosexuality.
When parents are intolerant they should be engaged with and told their behaviour us unacceptable. The school should answer complaints and try to reach a compromise but should back up the teacher where an intolerant group seeks to hound them out.
What I object to is the assumption that any one who criticises a teacher is intolerant. I see plenty of room here where thus particular teacher may have courted controversy. I think it could be either/or in this situation as outlined so far. Ie some bigots and an intolerant teacher unwilling to listen to criticism and tone done the rhetoric.
I don't have a problem with that at all.
As long as they are able to discuss in equal measure why it is bad that everybody gets to be invited.
From the links you provided I don't see any references to having equal discussion.
I have a short list of books I read as a child that made me think very hard as well - BNW for sure... To Kill A Mockingbird; Tobacco Road, Middlemarch, The Grapes of Wrath, Bleak House, Gone with the Wind, The Brothers Karamazov, A Passage to India, The Magic Mountain, 1984 and my very favourite, Jane Eyre. They were all great stories but the messages they carried have stayed with me!
No it didn't. It banned the promotion of homosexuality. That was wrong but it didn't ban gay people from teaching or say they has to be closeted. That is a fabrication.
Why would it be bad to invite people? what people shouldn't be going?
As someone who was in a LTR with a teacher, you didn't discuss or let on. No it didn't ban gay teachers, I never said it did, I was talking about mentioning or discussing things in front of children.
I see you have learnt a new word though... Fabrication. Good for you, Gold star. Now remember that next time you post something
Why on earth would you want children to discuss why it is bad to invite people because they are of a different sexuality, ethnic origin; ability; physical appearance or religion etc? What on earth good would that do? You might discuss why some people thought it bad as part of the discussion and there is nothing in that lesson plan to say you should not. The Ofsted requirement is to teach about inclusion and why that is a good thing... and that is what the lesson plan does.