The listener figure argument seems convincing until you realise that what they have done in many areas is create a monopoly, with no choice in many areas for your local pop music station,
How can anyone have a monopoly with 10,000 stations available over the internet (via Tune-In) and many alternative radio stations available via digital TV and DAB?
If people don't like Heart or Metro/TFM they will find something else to listen to.
How do we know that the areas now dominated by Heart don't have people who still miss and remember the former stations which at least years ago were much more of an asset to their communities, I certainly remember MFM in this way and won't be forgetting it.
It'll be the same story with TFM & Metro, the competitors don't directly replace what TFM offered so people's default choice remains the same, although they won't be positive about what's happened, at best they'll be apathetic.
You're right in saying that Rajar does not measure people's emotional connection with the station. But it's always been the case. I'm sure that people still lament the end of DevonAir when it became Gemini. Or preferred SGR when it was called Radio Orwell.
But that kind of nostalgia is, in my opinion, limited to the anoraks (myself included). If people really were so disgusted by Heart the figures would have plummeted. And the same people who bemoan the lack of choice are the ones who are more or most likely to seek out alternatives online.
But that kind of nostalgia is, in my opinion, limited to the anoraks (myself included). If people really were so disgusted by Heart the figures would have plummeted. And the same people who bemoan the lack of choice are the ones who are more or most likely to seek out alternatives online.
Here Here. I wish it wasn't the case but its true.
Here Here. I wish it wasn't the case but its true.
We agree on something at last then! Believe me, I'd love to still have the landscape of ILR that I remember from growing up - but radio, like every other business, must evolve.
We agree on something at last then! Believe me, I'd love to still have the landscape of ILR that I remember from growing up - but radio, like every other business, must evolve.
However, its not evolving, its contracting!
Just a shame that those now in charge have put finance first, and quality as far down the list its a crime:mad:
However, its not evolving, its contracting!
Just a shame that those now in charge have put finance first, and quality as far down the list its a crime:mad:
How many stations can you receive on a mobile device with headphones in 2012, compared with a mobile device with headphones in 1992?
It appears to be contracting because the choice of radio stations is not on FM anymore, it's iPods, it's smartphones, it's Spotify, it's Radioplayer and it's every other radio station in the world being available with a few clicks. It puts the traditional FM/AM/DAB modes out of kilter and they react to all that by becoming merged/rebranded entities, like TFMetro. Some react by creating brands like Heart, some stay local and hope for the best, others put their heads in the sand and hopes they will go away. They won't.
ILR is dead and buried. It was a fantastic model when there we were a little isolated island, now the wrld has opened up to us and radio needs to adapt, otherwise the business is finished.
Anyway, going back on topic, Steve and Karen (never heard them before) do have a great rapport and sound great, however on one aircheck I heard, Steve gave a timecheck and said "Metro, it's 8-42". Still got a bit of work to do there...!
Anyway, going back on topic, Steve and Karen (never heard them before) do have a great rapport and sound great, however on one aircheck I heard, Steve gave a timecheck and said "Metro, it's 8-42". Still got a bit of work to do there...!
Suspect they have to put a quid in the "Swear Box" every time they mention the "M" word. So it'll be one heck of a Christmas party this year at that rate...
ILR is dead and buried. It was a fantastic model when there we were a little isolated island, now the wrld has opened up to us and radio needs to adapt, otherwise the business is finished.
QUOTE]
Let's not forget ILR's problem children and the secondary rental
Gwent Broadcasting
Cardiff Broadcasting
and so on and so forth
How can anyone have a monopoly with 10,000 stations available over the internet (via Tune-In) and many alternative radio stations available via digital TV and DAB?
If people don't like Heart or Metro/TFM they will find something else to listen to.
They can have a monopoly over the available FM stations in an area, forcing people to switch to other alternatives which is harder in car In a lot of the Home Counties it's Heart over nearly all the available commercial stations, many areas have no other decent alternatives from a competitor, of if they do it doesn't replace what was taken away, I feel this way here about Dee106.3 over MFM.
You're right in saying that Rajar does not measure people's emotional connection with the station. But it's always been the case. I'm sure that people still lament the end of DevonAir when it became Gemini. Or preferred SGR when it was called Radio Orwell.
But that kind of nostalgia is, in my opinion, limited to the anoraks (myself included). If people really were so disgusted by Heart the figures would have plummeted. And the same people who bemoan the lack of choice are the ones who are more or most likely to seek out alternatives online.
It doesn't really matter how much choice there is, I can play CD's, MP3's off USB and SD card in the car, listen to stations via TuneIn over 3G whilst driving, listen to music stations on satellite and DAB, but it doesn't replace the simple pleasure that was MFM, dedicated to the feel of the area with cheerful presenters who would make the day a bit lighter.
I've always thought that traditional radio stations should be thinking in the opposite way to the way they do, in reaction to the expanding choice in alternative ways of listening. To me, this should mean that they should up their game and provide more reasons to listen to your local station, downgrading it until it is little more than a shuffling MP3 player itself with some idents and a little bit of news and adverts makes it all the more irrelevant in the face of those alternative choices.
To some extent that is what our traditional terrestrial TV channels have had to do, with so many alternative viewing choices now, there has to be compelling reasons to watch BBC ONE, ITV & Channel 4, and when they do something that captures the imagination of the country it is irrelevant that people don't have to rely on them for their primary entertainment anymore, when the local radio station is in the same position it should be working hard to makie itself still relevant to local people.
Hearing your favourite tracks broadcast as a shared experience with your local community has more energy than merely listening to them by yourself somehow.
It's annoying for me that Radio City has always seemed more macho and the MFM stations were more down to earth but now only left with City (or Juice), still good to see City surviving though although it barely has. Used to listen to City/Rock/MFM in the evening when popping out to the supermarket, which was a 7 mile car trip each way to Ellesmere Port with no big store in town, local radio can there for you when you go about such activities in your life, but the evening nowadays is a wasteland with nothing to listen to even from BBC Local Radio as noone listens during those times apparently, despite shift work and it still being light after 7 this time of year and of course those that don't live a 9-5 lifestyle
It doesn't really matter how much choice there is, I can play CD's, MP3's off USB and SD card in the car, listen to stations via TuneIn over 3G whilst driving, listen to music stations on satellite and DAB, but it doesn't replace the simple pleasure that was MFM, dedicated to the feel of the area with cheerful presenters who would make the day a bit lighter.
I've always thought that traditional radio stations should be thinking in the opposite way to the way they do, in reaction to the expanding choice in alternative ways of listening. To me, this should mean that they should up their game and provide more reasons to listen to your local station, downgrading it until it is little more than a shuffling MP3 player itself with some idents and a little bit of news and adverts makes it all the more irrelevant in the face of those alternative choices.
To some extent that is what our traditional terrestrial TV channels have had to do, with so many alternative viewing choices now, there has to be compelling reasons to watch BBC ONE, ITV & Channel 4, and when they do something that captures the imagination of the country it is irrelevant that people don't have to rely on them for their primary entertainment anymore, when the local radio station is in the same position it should be working hard to makie itself still relevant to local people.
Hearing your favourite tracks broadcast as a shared experience with your local community has more energy than merely listening to them by yourself somehow.
It's annoying for me that Radio City has always seemed more macho and the MFM stations were more down to earth but now only left with City (or Juice), still good to see City surviving though although it barely has. Used to listen to City/Rock/MFM in the evening when popping out to the supermarket, which was a 7 mile car trip each way to Ellesmere Port with no big store in town, local radio can there for you when you go about such activities in your life, but the evening nowadays is a wasteland with nothing to listen to even from BBC Local Radio as noone listens during those times apparently, despite shift work and it still being light after 7 this time of year and of course those that don't live a 9-5 lifestyle
I completely agree with the idea that local radio stations should be uping their game, to keep audience. The problem, in part, is the way in which groups have been able to acquire stations over time.
It is all very well saying that there are thousands of stations if you listen on the web, but the point still remains, you can't listen over the web if you are driving about in your car. This is where FM comes into its own.
Going back to the City / MFM scenario, I think City sounded "more macho" as you put it simply due to the fact it had been on air alot longer than MFM and had established itself. It was also targeting a bigger area.
I can remember the start of MFM as it changed from being Marcher. DJs such as Phil Roberts, Terry Underhill, Daragh Corcorhan when the station first started.
Thinking back further, I can also remember Marcher broadcasting City's output overnight when they didn't have local shows.
City is just a shadow of its former self now. It was once a great local station. It seams to have changed so it can take Juice on. Juice, or Crash FM before it, was targeting the dance scene, and City was more mainstream.
I completely agree with the idea that local radio stations should be uping their game, to keep audience. The problem, in part, is the way in which groups have been able to acquire stations over time.
It is all very well saying that there are thousands of stations if you listen on the web, but the point still remains, you can't listen over the web if you are driving about in your car. This is where FM comes into its own.
You can use the TuneIn or Radioplayer app on your smartphone and connect it to the aux terminal of your car radio to get internet radio through the car speakers. I see quite a few people doing it these days.
In-car listening is only about 21% of total listening, so it isn't as important as some people like to make out.
<snip>Used to listen to City/Rock/MFM in the evening when popping out to the supermarket, which was a 7 mile car trip each way to Ellesmere Port with no big store in town, local radio can there for you when you go about such activities in your life,<snip>
I'm not convinced you are missing local radio with two of those examples. I think it's the shows that were on-air then. MFM was sharing an evening show with Coast, Champion and Marcher Gold for many years - and that was even before it took a show from Bristol. Rock FM doesn't officially cover Ellesmere Port and although they acknowledged their large footprint I doubt it was an area ever on their priority list.
I'm not convinced you are missing local radio with two of those examples. I think it's the shows that were on-air then. MFM was sharing an evening show with Coast, Champion and Marcher Gold for many years - and that was even before it took a show from Bristol. Rock FM doesn't officially cover Ellesmere Port and although they acknowledged their large footprint I doubt it was an area ever on their priority list.
You make a very good observation here. A lot of the talk about "choice" on this forum harks back to the time when only one commercial station covered a town or city. Cross listening to neighbouring services (and further afield with a good ariel or atmospherics) was largely the preserve of radio enthusiasts, rather than the general listening public.
That perception tends to exaggerate the true extent of how much choice there was in the first place. Rose tinted specs, I'm afraid.
You make a very good observation here. A lot of the talk about "choice" on this forum harks back to the time when only one commercial station covered a town or city. Cross listening to neighbouring services (and further afield with a good ariel or atmospherics) was largely the preserve of radio enthusiasts, rather than the general listening public.
That perception tends to exaggerate the true extent of how much choice there was in the first place. Rose tinted specs, I'm afraid.
No- I don't think it is 'rose tinted specs'. More frequencies all broadcasting something the same or very similar is not more choice. If I want to listen to some decent local news on a commercial station what choice do I have now? None, in this area.
No- I don't think it is 'rose tinted specs'. More frequencies all broadcasting something the same or very similar is not more choice. If I want to listen to some decent local news on a commercial station what choice do I have now? None, in this area.
And given your location - the New Forest - what choice of local news did you used to have on commercial radio? It's a long, long time since 2CR or even Ocean provided anything more than headline news.
No- I don't think it is 'rose tinted specs'. More frequencies all broadcasting something the same or very similar is not more choice. If I want to listen to some decent local news on a commercial station what choice do I have now? None, in this area.
If you are in the new forrest you are quite well served by radio. As well as the nationals and bbc local you have Capital for young people. Heart for ppl in their 30's. Wave with a wider playlist and a bit of cheesy presenting. You have Jack too which sounds different to the others and you may be able to pick up breeze.
I'd call that more choice than you had 30 years ago they are all different sounding stations.
I'd be surprised if Wave doesn't cover that area since it goes as far as Dorchester on 105.2. There's also Forest FM in Verwood if you can pick that up, but I have no idea what they do news wise.
So, in fact, there are at least four commercial stations serving the New Forest, all of which do news. Plus the BBC. I'm not sure what some people actually want here? Perhaps they long for the days of ILR doing half hour news shows every evening.
Well, having once produced and presented one for several years I can tell you they were naff then and they'd be even worse now. Lengthy speech output was largely there for one reason : to please the regulator and perhaps the wealthy loval shareholders. There. I said it.
In times of crisis, or genuine breaking news (eg a plane crash, a shocking court case) there's still a role for commercial radio to do something different. Jack FM in Afghanistan being a prime example from recent times.
I heard some presenters talking about an award show tomorrow? Is this the Bauers?
I nominate the MD of Bauer North East and anyone else who was involved with the Worst Merger of a Radio Station - in the world ever. Part one ?
Well at lease they didn't send a letter to everyone in the TSA telling.the listeners to "Go F@&k themselfs - You don't warrant your own station any more."
Comments
How can anyone have a monopoly with 10,000 stations available over the internet (via Tune-In) and many alternative radio stations available via digital TV and DAB?
If people don't like Heart or Metro/TFM they will find something else to listen to.
You're right in saying that Rajar does not measure people's emotional connection with the station. But it's always been the case. I'm sure that people still lament the end of DevonAir when it became Gemini. Or preferred SGR when it was called Radio Orwell.
But that kind of nostalgia is, in my opinion, limited to the anoraks (myself included). If people really were so disgusted by Heart the figures would have plummeted. And the same people who bemoan the lack of choice are the ones who are more or most likely to seek out alternatives online.
Hell if there was much interest in TFM when it broadcast from Teesside it'd still be on air and doing roaring good RAJAR figures
Here Here. I wish it wasn't the case but its true.
We agree on something at last then! Believe me, I'd love to still have the landscape of ILR that I remember from growing up - but radio, like every other business, must evolve.
However, its not evolving, its contracting!
Just a shame that those now in charge have put finance first, and quality as far down the list its a crime:mad:
How many stations can you receive on a mobile device with headphones in 2012, compared with a mobile device with headphones in 1992?
ILR is dead and buried. It was a fantastic model when there we were a little isolated island, now the wrld has opened up to us and radio needs to adapt, otherwise the business is finished.
Anyway, going back on topic, Steve and Karen (never heard them before) do have a great rapport and sound great, however on one aircheck I heard, Steve gave a timecheck and said "Metro, it's 8-42". Still got a bit of work to do there...!
Suspect they have to put a quid in the "Swear Box" every time they mention the "M" word. So it'll be one heck of a Christmas party this year at that rate...
They can have a monopoly over the available FM stations in an area, forcing people to switch to other alternatives which is harder in car In a lot of the Home Counties it's Heart over nearly all the available commercial stations, many areas have no other decent alternatives from a competitor, of if they do it doesn't replace what was taken away, I feel this way here about Dee106.3 over MFM.
It doesn't really matter how much choice there is, I can play CD's, MP3's off USB and SD card in the car, listen to stations via TuneIn over 3G whilst driving, listen to music stations on satellite and DAB, but it doesn't replace the simple pleasure that was MFM, dedicated to the feel of the area with cheerful presenters who would make the day a bit lighter.
I've always thought that traditional radio stations should be thinking in the opposite way to the way they do, in reaction to the expanding choice in alternative ways of listening. To me, this should mean that they should up their game and provide more reasons to listen to your local station, downgrading it until it is little more than a shuffling MP3 player itself with some idents and a little bit of news and adverts makes it all the more irrelevant in the face of those alternative choices.
To some extent that is what our traditional terrestrial TV channels have had to do, with so many alternative viewing choices now, there has to be compelling reasons to watch BBC ONE, ITV & Channel 4, and when they do something that captures the imagination of the country it is irrelevant that people don't have to rely on them for their primary entertainment anymore, when the local radio station is in the same position it should be working hard to makie itself still relevant to local people.
Hearing your favourite tracks broadcast as a shared experience with your local community has more energy than merely listening to them by yourself somehow.
It's annoying for me that Radio City has always seemed more macho and the MFM stations were more down to earth but now only left with City (or Juice), still good to see City surviving though although it barely has. Used to listen to City/Rock/MFM in the evening when popping out to the supermarket, which was a 7 mile car trip each way to Ellesmere Port with no big store in town, local radio can there for you when you go about such activities in your life, but the evening nowadays is a wasteland with nothing to listen to even from BBC Local Radio as noone listens during those times apparently, despite shift work and it still being light after 7 this time of year and of course those that don't live a 9-5 lifestyle
I completely agree with the idea that local radio stations should be uping their game, to keep audience. The problem, in part, is the way in which groups have been able to acquire stations over time.
It is all very well saying that there are thousands of stations if you listen on the web, but the point still remains, you can't listen over the web if you are driving about in your car. This is where FM comes into its own.
Going back to the City / MFM scenario, I think City sounded "more macho" as you put it simply due to the fact it had been on air alot longer than MFM and had established itself. It was also targeting a bigger area.
I can remember the start of MFM as it changed from being Marcher. DJs such as Phil Roberts, Terry Underhill, Daragh Corcorhan when the station first started.
Thinking back further, I can also remember Marcher broadcasting City's output overnight when they didn't have local shows.
City is just a shadow of its former self now. It was once a great local station. It seams to have changed so it can take Juice on. Juice, or Crash FM before it, was targeting the dance scene, and City was more mainstream.
You can use the TuneIn or Radioplayer app on your smartphone and connect it to the aux terminal of your car radio to get internet radio through the car speakers. I see quite a few people doing it these days.
In-car listening is only about 21% of total listening, so it isn't as important as some people like to make out.
I'm not convinced you are missing local radio with two of those examples. I think it's the shows that were on-air then. MFM was sharing an evening show with Coast, Champion and Marcher Gold for many years - and that was even before it took a show from Bristol. Rock FM doesn't officially cover Ellesmere Port and although they acknowledged their large footprint I doubt it was an area ever on their priority list.
You make a very good observation here. A lot of the talk about "choice" on this forum harks back to the time when only one commercial station covered a town or city. Cross listening to neighbouring services (and further afield with a good ariel or atmospherics) was largely the preserve of radio enthusiasts, rather than the general listening public.
That perception tends to exaggerate the true extent of how much choice there was in the first place. Rose tinted specs, I'm afraid.
No- I don't think it is 'rose tinted specs'. More frequencies all broadcasting something the same or very similar is not more choice. If I want to listen to some decent local news on a commercial station what choice do I have now? None, in this area.
And given your location - the New Forest - what choice of local news did you used to have on commercial radio? It's a long, long time since 2CR or even Ocean provided anything more than headline news.
Does Wave 105 not cover your area?
What's wrong with BBC Solent's news coverage?
If you are in the new forrest you are quite well served by radio. As well as the nationals and bbc local you have Capital for young people. Heart for ppl in their 30's. Wave with a wider playlist and a bit of cheesy presenting. You have Jack too which sounds different to the others and you may be able to pick up breeze.
I'd call that more choice than you had 30 years ago they are all different sounding stations.
Well, having once produced and presented one for several years I can tell you they were naff then and they'd be even worse now. Lengthy speech output was largely there for one reason : to please the regulator and perhaps the wealthy loval shareholders. There. I said it.
In times of crisis, or genuine breaking news (eg a plane crash, a shocking court case) there's still a role for commercial radio to do something different. Jack FM in Afghanistan being a prime example from recent times.
I nominate the MD of Bauer North East and anyone else who was involved with the Worst Merger of a Radio Station - in the world ever. Part one ?
Well at lease they didn't send a letter to everyone in the TSA telling.the listeners to "Go F@&k themselfs - You don't warrant your own station any more."
Even Heart said what they were doing in advance.